Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
Rahul
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
Rahul
Nice job.
Answered some of my immediate questions, such as whether ext4 happens without choice during the upgrade from F10 to F11. (A choice of retaining ext3 is given).
One question though
Under "What about backward/forward compatibility", you say:
"You can however use the Ext4 option to mount any Ext3 partition. Any new files will use the new format by default."
Should this be "Any new filesystems" rather than "files"? I would think that an ext4 file within an ext3 filesystem would have problems.
On 04/28/2009 09:36 PM, Bob Gustafson wrote:
One question though
Under "What about backward/forward compatibility", you say:
"You can however use the Ext4 option to mount any Ext3 partition. Any new files will use the new format by default."
Should this be "Any new filesystems" rather than "files"? I would think that an ext4 file within an ext3 filesystem would have problems.
What I had written is correct but I have changed the wording a bit to make it more clear.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
Hope that helps.
Rahul
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
OK, here's one. The FAQ says "You can use the Anaconda boot option, "ext4migrate" to automatically migrate from Ext3 to the new Ext4 filesytem when upgrading from a previous release of Fedora".
What does this mean in practice? Is the end result equivalent to backing up my ext3 partition and restoring under ext4, or does it simply mount the ext3 partition as ext4?
poc
On 04/28/2009 09:50 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
OK, here's one. The FAQ says "You can use the Anaconda boot option, "ext4migrate" to automatically migrate from Ext3 to the new Ext4 filesytem when upgrading from a previous release of Fedora".
What does this mean in practice? Is the end result equivalent to backing up my ext3 partition and restoring under ext4, or does it simply mount the ext3 partition as ext4?
Mounts Ext3 partitions as Ext4 with new files written in Ext4 format.
Rahul
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 23:49 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 04/28/2009 09:50 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
OK, here's one. The FAQ says "You can use the Anaconda boot option, "ext4migrate" to automatically migrate from Ext3 to the new Ext4 filesytem when upgrading from a previous release of Fedora".
What does this mean in practice? Is the end result equivalent to backing up my ext3 partition and restoring under ext4, or does it simply mount the ext3 partition as ext4?
Mounts Ext3 partitions as Ext4 with new files written in Ext4 format.
Thanks Rahul. Perhaps you could add this to the FAQ text.
poc
On 04/29/2009 02:13 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 23:49 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 04/28/2009 09:50 PM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
OK, here's one. The FAQ says "You can use the Anaconda boot option, "ext4migrate" to automatically migrate from Ext3 to the new Ext4 filesytem when upgrading from a previous release of Fedora".
What does this mean in practice? Is the end result equivalent to backing up my ext3 partition and restoring under ext4, or does it simply mount the ext3 partition as ext4?
Mounts Ext3 partitions as Ext4 with new files written in Ext4 format.
Thanks Rahul. Perhaps you could add this to the FAQ text.
I am already editing the text whenever I am responding. Do check and let me know if there is anything else to add.
Rahul
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 11:50 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
OK, here's one. The FAQ says "You can use the Anaconda boot option, "ext4migrate" to automatically migrate from Ext3 to the new Ext4 filesytem when upgrading from a previous release of Fedora".
What does this mean in practice? Is the end result equivalent to backing up my ext3 partition and restoring under ext4, or does it simply mount the ext3 partition as ext4?
It mounts as ext4 *and* enables the 'extents' feature. So the files written during the upgrade should be using extents - but not everything on the system gets rewritten. /home, for instance, will be essentially untouched.
So.. it's a little fancier than just mounting as ext4, but less invasive and time-consuming than doing a full backup/restore.
-w
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 14:27 -0400, Will Woods wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 11:50 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
OK, here's one. The FAQ says "You can use the Anaconda boot option, "ext4migrate" to automatically migrate from Ext3 to the new Ext4 filesytem when upgrading from a previous release of Fedora".
What does this mean in practice? Is the end result equivalent to backing up my ext3 partition and restoring under ext4, or does it simply mount the ext3 partition as ext4?
It mounts as ext4 *and* enables the 'extents' feature. So the files written during the upgrade should be using extents - but not everything on the system gets rewritten. /home, for instance, will be essentially untouched.
So.. it's a little fancier than just mounting as ext4, but less invasive and time-consuming than doing a full backup/restore.
OK, that's clear enough, thanks.
poc
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 16:12 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 14:27 -0400, Will Woods wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 11:50 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
OK, here's one. The FAQ says "You can use the Anaconda boot option, "ext4migrate" to automatically migrate from Ext3 to the new Ext4 filesytem when upgrading from a previous release of Fedora".
What does this mean in practice? Is the end result equivalent to backing up my ext3 partition and restoring under ext4, or does it simply mount the ext3 partition as ext4?
It mounts as ext4 *and* enables the 'extents' feature. So the files written during the upgrade should be using extents - but not everything on the system gets rewritten. /home, for instance, will be essentially untouched.
So.. it's a little fancier than just mounting as ext4, but less invasive and time-consuming than doing a full backup/restore.
OK, that's clear enough, thanks.
Actually it was a little less clear than I originally thought. I installed F11 as an upgrade to F10 and wasn't asked if I wanted to upgrade my filesystems to ext4. Only on revisiting the FAQ did I notice that I would have had to give the "ext4migrate" option to Anaconda. I had mistakenly assumed that this would be settable interactively.
In fact I don't quite see why it isn't.
poc
I had mistakenly assumed that this would be settable interactively. In fact I don't quite see why it isn't.
I rather prefer the current setup to manually specify "ext4migrate" a) Since ext4 isn't backward compatible to ext3. b) users when interactively prompted with a message to choose between ext4 and ext3, would most of the time choose ext4 because of the higher number without knowing the facts.
On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 02:52 +0530, Gireesh wrote:
I had mistakenly assumed that this would be settable interactively. In fact I don't quite see why it isn't.
I rather prefer the current setup to manually specify "ext4migrate" a) Since ext4 isn't backward compatible to ext3. b) users when interactively prompted with a message to choose between ext4 and ext3, would most of the time choose ext4 because of the higher number without knowing the facts.
There's something to be said for that, however I think hiding it in the Anaconda options will virtually guarantee that most people, keen to try out their shiny new F11, simply won't see it.
I tend regard Anaconda options as a last resort, e.g. for when your machine won't boot the installer because of some video driver problem.
poc
On 05/05/2009 04:08 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 02:52 +0530, Gireesh wrote:
I had mistakenly assumed that this would be settable interactively. In fact I don't quite see why it isn't.
I rather prefer the current setup to manually specify "ext4migrate" a) Since ext4 isn't backward compatible to ext3. b) users when interactively prompted with a message to choose between ext4 and ext3, would most of the time choose ext4 because of the higher number without knowing the facts.
There's something to be said for that, however I think hiding it in the Anaconda options will virtually guarantee that most people, keen to try out their shiny new F11, simply won't see it.
I think it is better that way. A new filesystem is a big deal. People upgrading should ideally read the documentation associated with an upgrade to understand the details. If they don't, they are better off with the conservative choice.
Rahul
On Wed, 2009-05-06 at 00:44 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/05/2009 04:08 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 02:52 +0530, Gireesh wrote:
I had mistakenly assumed that this would be settable interactively. In fact I don't quite see why it isn't.
I rather prefer the current setup to manually specify "ext4migrate" a) Since ext4 isn't backward compatible to ext3. b) users when interactively prompted with a message to choose between ext4 and ext3, would most of the time choose ext4 because of the higher number without knowing the facts.
There's something to be said for that, however I think hiding it in the Anaconda options will virtually guarantee that most people, keen to try out their shiny new F11, simply won't see it.
I think it is better that way. A new filesystem is a big deal. People upgrading should ideally read the documentation associated with an upgrade to understand the details. If they don't, they are better off with the conservative choice.
While I don't argue with that, in my case I had read fairly extensively on ext4 and did want to use it. My confusion didn't arise from not knowing the implications of ext4, but of not understanding this specific detail of Anaconda, which is not the same thing.
Anyway, what's done is done. I guess I'll just fiddle with the mount options.
poc
On 05/06/2009 12:48 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
While I don't argue with that, in my case I had read fairly extensively on ext4 and did want to use it. My confusion didn't arise from not knowing the implications of ext4, but of not understanding this specific detail of Anaconda, which is not the same thing.
Anyway, what's done is done. I guess I'll just fiddle with the mount options.
If I can improve the documentation in anyway to help in this (which is the goal of the Ext4 FAQ), please let me know.
Rahul
On Wed, 2009-05-06 at 00:44 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/05/2009 04:08 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 02:52 +0530, Gireesh wrote:
I had mistakenly assumed that this would be settable interactively. In fact I don't quite see why it isn't.
I rather prefer the current setup to manually specify "ext4migrate" a) Since ext4 isn't backward compatible to ext3. b) users when interactively prompted with a message to choose between ext4 and ext3, would most of the time choose ext4 because of the higher number without knowing the facts.
There's something to be said for that, however I think hiding it in the Anaconda options will virtually guarantee that most people, keen to try out their shiny new F11, simply won't see it.
I think it is better that way. A new filesystem is a big deal. People upgrading should ideally read the documentation associated with an upgrade to understand the details. If they don't, they are better off with the conservative choice.
Rahul
Is there any way to decouple the upgrade to ext4 from the Anaconda upgrade to F11. Some folks might like to upgrade to ext4 before the F11 upgrade, others would like to upgrade after their F11 upgrade is successful. Perhaps also after /boot can be ext4 too.
What with RAID and all, upgrading to F11 has enough testing branches without adding whether the user is going to ext4 or not.
A straight install of F11, without an upgrade of existing disk partitions is a no brain ext4 install too. However, with /boot needing ext3...
A straight install of F11, with existing (empty) partitions, perhaps with RAID, could be ext4. However, with /boot needing ext3...
----
I'm for running ext4 upgrade separately from Fn -> F11.
Is there anything in F11 that absolutely depends on ext4??
On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 15:51 -0500, Bob Gustafson wrote:
Is there any way to decouple the upgrade to ext4 from the Anaconda upgrade to F11. Some folks might like to upgrade to ext4 before the F11 upgrade, others would like to upgrade after their F11 upgrade is successful. Perhaps also after /boot can be ext4 too.
The FAQ explains how to convert after installing F11. In fact I just followed the instructions and it worked fine. I presume it would also work pre-installation (ext4 is supported on F10).
poc
On 05/06/2009 02:21 AM, Bob Gustafson wrote:
Is there any way to decouple the upgrade to ext4 from the Anaconda upgrade to F11. Some folks might like to upgrade to ext4 before the F11 upgrade, others would like to upgrade after their F11 upgrade is successful. Perhaps also after /boot can be ext4 too.
Your question is actually already answered in the FAQ but I will explain again. Anaconda retains the Ext3 filesystem on a upgrade unless there is a specific option "ext4migrate" passed to it. The FAQ explains the procedure for the manual migration as well.
I'm for running ext4 upgrade separately from Fn -> F11.
Is there anything in F11 that absolutely depends on ext4??
Nothing.
Rahul
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
Rahul
It is probably worth noting in the FAQ that the LiveCDs can not be installed without a separate /boot partition due to a lack of bootloader support and that this can be worked around with the non-live install CDs or DVD.
Hez
On 04/28/2009 10:34 PM, Hezekiah M. Carty wrote:
On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 11:56 AM, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
Rahul
It is probably worth noting in the FAQ that the LiveCDs can not be installed without a separate /boot partition due to a lack of bootloader support and that this can be worked around with the non-live install CDs or DVD.
Done.
Rahul
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
I think the backward/forward compatibility section should state a little more clearly that, if you do everything the default way, you won't be able to mount ext4 partitions as ext3 (unlike the situation with ext3/ext2; you can always mount an ext3 partition as ext2). It does imply this, if you read it carefully enough, but we really need to whack people over the head with it to be sure it's understood.
On 04/28/2009 04:52 PM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
I think the backward/forward compatibility section should state a little more clearly that, if you do everything the default way, you won't be able to mount ext4 partitions as ext3 (unlike the situation with ext3/ext2; you can always mount an ext3 partition as ext2). It does imply this, if you read it carefully enough, but we really need to whack people over the head with it to be sure it's understood.
And I agree with that 100%. It is really best to state it with complete clarity. Many readers use English as a second language and they are already heavily challenged understanding it. I'm an advocate of writing as clearly as possible for the good of all -- we are all one community with a common goal.
Bob
On 04/29/2009 02:22 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
I think the backward/forward compatibility section should state a little more clearly that, if you do everything the default way, you won't be able to mount ext4 partitions as ext3 (unlike the situation with ext3/ext2; you can always mount an ext3 partition as ext2). It does imply this, if you read it carefully enough, but we really need to whack people over the head with it to be sure it's understood.
Added a explicit note on this. If you think, it is still not clear, feel free to edit the page and add more information. Thanks.
Rahul
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
Rahul
A major feature in ext4 discussions is the ability to do live defragmentation. Is the appropriate utility available?
On 05/01/2009 07:16 AM, shmuel siegel wrote:
Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
Rahul
A major feature in ext4 discussions is the ability to do live defragmentation. Is the appropriate utility available?
No. I added the answer to the FAQ as well.
Rahul
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
I'd suggest converting the phrase "Anaconda boot option" into a link to more info on boot options, e.g. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Options, except that there doesn't seem to be anything about ext4migrate on that page.
Cheers
poc
On 05/06/2009 02:21 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
I'd suggest converting the phrase "Anaconda boot option" into a link to more info on boot options, e.g. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Options, except that there doesn't seem to be anything about ext4migrate on that page.
I have added a link and documented the changes in the options page as well. Thanks.
Rahul
On Wed, 2009-05-06 at 03:25 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/06/2009 02:21 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
On Tue, 2009-04-28 at 21:26 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Hi
I have put up a FAQ at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ext4_in_Fedora_11
I will be expanding this over time. If you have other unanswered questions, do let me know.
I'd suggest converting the phrase "Anaconda boot option" into a link to more info on boot options, e.g. https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Anaconda/Options, except that there doesn't seem to be anything about ext4migrate on that page.
I have added a link and documented the changes in the options page as well. Thanks.
Stylistic suggestion:
"In Fedora 11 or above, with this option passed, Anaconda will configure the ..."
to
"In Fedora 11 or above, configure the ..."
poc
PS I'd be happy to edit this kind of thing myself (I'm one of those wierd people who quite enjoy copy-editing), but apparently getting a FAS account involves sending a physical document to Fedora Orbiting HQ. It's not practical for me to do that before F11 comes out (I live in South America).
On 05/06/2009 03:34 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
PS I'd be happy to edit this kind of thing myself (I'm one of those wierd people who quite enjoy copy-editing), but apparently getting a FAS account involves sending a physical document to Fedora Orbiting HQ. It's not practical for me to do that before F11 comes out (I live in South America).
No, it doesn't. I can assure that I never had to do that. It is a click through process.
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/
Rahul
On Wed, 2009-05-06 at 03:48 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/06/2009 03:34 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
PS I'd be happy to edit this kind of thing myself (I'm one of those wierd people who quite enjoy copy-editing), but apparently getting a FAS account involves sending a physical document to Fedora Orbiting HQ. It's not practical for me to do that before F11 comes out (I live in South America).
No, it doesn't. I can assure that I never had to do that. It is a click through process.
Rahul - the problem is that the text instructions apparently haven't been updated since it *wasn't* a click through process, so the patient people who read the instructions (rather than the hot-heads like me who just look for a "click here" button :>) all get caught out. I've seen six or seven people raise this problem. I'm not sure how to get the instructions updated, though.
On 05/06/2009 04:43 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
Rahul - the problem is that the text instructions apparently haven't been updated since it *wasn't* a click through process, so the patient people who read the instructions (rather than the hot-heads like me who just look for a "click here" button :>) all get caught out. I've seen six or seven people raise this problem. I'm not sure how to get the instructions updated, though.
Where are the instructions? I signed a few months after the project was formed and that like 5 years back. So I don't remember the specifics anymore.
If is part of the introduction mail or a (non-wiki) webpage, then file it against Fedora infrastructure at
https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/
Rahul
On Wed, 2009-05-06 at 04:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/06/2009 04:43 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
Rahul - the problem is that the text instructions apparently haven't been updated since it *wasn't* a click through process, so the patient people who read the instructions (rather than the hot-heads like me who just look for a "click here" button :>) all get caught out. I've seen six or seven people raise this problem. I'm not sure how to get the instructions updated, though.
Where are the instructions? I signed a few months after the project was formed and that like 5 years back. So I don't remember the specifics anymore.
If is part of the introduction mail or a (non-wiki) webpage, then file it against Fedora infrastructure at
It's one of the web pages you see as you go through the process, I think, so that sounds like the right mechanism. I'll pretend to be a new user and go through the process again to make sure I get it right. Thanks.
On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 16:24 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
Where are the instructions? I signed a few months after the project was formed and that like 5 years back. So I don't remember the specifics anymore.
If is part of the introduction mail or a (non-wiki) webpage, then file it against Fedora infrastructure at
It's one of the web pages you see as you go through the process, I think, so that sounds like the right mechanism. I'll pretend to be a new user and go through the process again to make sure I get it right. Thanks.
https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/1371
On Tue, 2009-05-05 at 16:24 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Wed, 2009-05-06 at 04:52 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 05/06/2009 04:43 AM, Adam Williamson wrote:
Rahul - the problem is that the text instructions apparently haven't been updated since it *wasn't* a click through process, so the patient people who read the instructions (rather than the hot-heads like me who just look for a "click here" button :>) all get caught out. I've seen six or seven people raise this problem. I'm not sure how to get the instructions updated, though.
Where are the instructions? I signed a few months after the project was formed and that like 5 years back. So I don't remember the specifics anymore.
If is part of the introduction mail or a (non-wiki) webpage, then file it against Fedora infrastructure at
It's one of the web pages you see as you go through the process, I think, so that sounds like the right mechanism. I'll pretend to be a new user and go through the process again to make sure I get it right.
I just went through the process again, this time ignoring the (very large and prominent) text box, and managed to register.
Then I went ahead and edited the FAQ myself :-)
poc
-
Adam Williamson -
Bob Gustafson -
Gireesh Sreekantan -
Hezekiah M. Carty -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Rahul Sundaram -
Robert L Cochran -
shmuel siegel -
Will Woods