On 01/14/2014 10:31 PM, Dennis Gilmore wrote:
As of 14th January 2014, Fedora 18 has reached its end of life for updates and support. No further updates, including security updates, will be available for Fedora 18. A previous reminder was sent on December 18th [0].
How does this affect Copr?
I will keep Fedora 18 for additional 3 months there. Then it will be removed.
I'm still unsure what it will mean for existing Fedora 18 repository. I you want to discuss it, you are welcome to copr-devel@ mailing list.
Mirek
On 01/16/2014 09:05 AM, Miroslav Suchy wrote:
I'm still unsure what it will mean for existing Fedora 18 repository. I you want to discuss it, you are welcome to copr-devel@ mailing list.
So in 3 months I had to come with some solution what to do with old repositories. Options which comes to my mind - thinking loudly:
1) Give people warning and suggest them to archive it somewhere (repos.f.o, their own web...). And then remove F18 repos from Copr.
2) I can not remove the chroot from DB as that would remove access to repo files and is basically equal to option 1)
3) Chroots have flag if they are active. And overview page shows repo file only for those which are active. So I can just flip this attribute. Which will mean users can not select this chroot for building. No one will be allowed to build into that chroot. And in overview I can add new section "Archived repo" with some big red warning, that it is just for archived and not maintained in any meaning of that word.
While the last option is probably best, I'm not sure if this is worth the effort. How many people will appreciate having archived old repos?
Mirek
----- Original Message -----
On 01/16/2014 09:05 AM, Miroslav Suchy wrote:
I'm still unsure what it will mean for existing Fedora 18 repository. I you want to discuss it, you are welcome to copr-devel@ mailing list.
So in 3 months I had to come with some solution what to do with old repositories. Options which comes to my mind - thinking loudly:
- Give people warning and suggest them to archive it somewhere
(repos.f.o, their own web...). And then remove F18 repos from Copr. ... 3) Chroots have flag if they are active. And overview page shows repo file only for those which are active. So I can just flip this attribute. Which will mean users can not select this chroot for building. No one will be allowed to build into that chroot. And in overview I can add new section "Archived repo" with some big red warning, that it is just for archived and not maintained in any meaning of that word.
On EOL, Fedora repositories are not removed and are still available. No new updates and packages are allowed in. Not sure how much Copr is constrained in terms of storage but I'd say this is the way to go for Copr too. As there would be people still running unsupported EOLed version, it's theirs responsibility but allow them to access bits.
For timing, I'd say Copr should follow the same EOL rules - EOL one month after the latest release.
Jaroslav
On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 09:16:44AM +0100, Miroslav Suchy wrote:
While the last option is probably best, I'm not sure if this is worth the effort. How many people will appreciate having archived old repos?
If someone else uses GPLed binaries from a COPR repo and fulfills their source obligations by pointing to the repository we host, it's technically their problem if our repository goes away, but it would be a friendly gesture to at least keep the source RPMs around.
Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org writes:
On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 09:16:44AM +0100, Miroslav Suchy wrote:
While the last option is probably best, I'm not sure if this is worth the effort. How many people will appreciate having archived old repos?
If someone else uses GPLed binaries from a COPR repo and fulfills their source obligations by pointing to the repository we host, it's technically their problem if our repository goes away, but it would be a friendly gesture to at least keep the source RPMs around.
The thing is those copr repos will likely depend on EOLed Fedora repos. Do we keep *those* around? I guess the answer will be different for each mirror. Some will keep those repos for longer, some shorter.
But as you say, source RPMs might be nice to have at least.
-- Stanislav Ochotnicky sochotnicky@redhat.com Software Engineer - Developer Experience
PGP: 7B087241 Red Hat Inc. http://cz.redhat.com
On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 05:24:04PM +0100, Stanislav Ochotnicky wrote:
gesture to at least keep the source RPMs around.
The thing is those copr repos will likely depend on EOLed Fedora repos. Do we keep *those* around? I guess the answer will be different for each mirror. Some will keep those repos for longer, some shorter.
We keep them forever, yes. Mirrors can do what they want, of course, but many carry everything that we do on the main mirror. (This is less work than figuring out what to carry, and it's not that much disk space in this day and age.) Older releases stay in the main mirrors for some period of time even after EOL, and then eventually are moved off to https://archive.fedoraproject.org/pub/archive/, which as you see goes back to Fedora Core 1.
Now, one thing we don't keep are all of the updates. I believe these are actually retained internally in koji (although I think because we can, not necessarily by policy), but they vanish from the repositories -- both mirror network and archive -- so reproducing the exact build environment may be difficult / annoying.
On Thu, 16 Jan 2014 11:33:48 -0500 Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org wrote:
If someone else uses GPLed binaries from a COPR repo and fulfills their source obligations by pointing to the repository we host, it's technically their problem if our repository goes away, but it would be a friendly gesture to at least keep the source RPMs around.
s/uses/redistributes/ :)
If you are redistributing stuff from there, I would really hope you would also distribute or at least have a copy of the src.rpm.
Also, note that not everything in coprs is GPLed... They can be any acceptable for Fedora license.
We keep them forever, yes. Mirrors can do what they want, of course, but many carry everything that we do on the main mirror. (This is less work than figuring out what to carry, and it's not that much disk space in this day and age.) Older releases stay in the main mirrors for some period of time even after EOL, and then eventually are moved off to https://archive.fedoraproject.org/pub/archive/, which as you see goes back to Fedora Core 1.
Now, one thing we don't keep are all of the updates. I believe these are actually retained internally in koji (although I think because we can, not necessarily by policy), but they vanish from the repositories -- both mirror network and archive -- so reproducing the exact build environment may be difficult / annoying.
We do keep all updates too on archive. :)
As a counter point: we don't have any requirement for repos.fedorapeople.org folks to keep all packages around forever (and in fact we have quotas that make that a dis-encentive).
I'll also note that keeping all packages we produce means our koji storage is currently about 17TB, making it difficult to backup or move around. Do we really want to "be nice" and require all coprs be kept forever too, even though we don't have a requirement there to do so?
I'd personally say no.
My suggestion:
- at eol disable the eol'ed distro buildroots - at some months later, cull those builds.
kevin
On Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 10:44:34AM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
If someone else uses GPLed binaries from a COPR repo and fulfills their source obligations by pointing to the repository we host, it's technically their problem if our repository goes away, but it would be a friendly gesture to at least keep the source RPMs around.
s/uses/redistributes/ :)
Sorry, yes -- I meant use in that sense. :)
If you are redistributing stuff from there, I would really hope you would also distribute or at least have a copy of the src.rpm.
Yep. But.... people often don't. In my experience, people are particularly lax about binaries that they don't modify and just got from somewhere, figuring that pointing back to where they got it will cover it.
I'm not saying this obligates us in any way, of course.
copr-devel@lists.fedorahosted.org
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Jaroslav Reznik -
Kevin Fenzi -
Matthew Miller -
Miroslav Suchý -
Stanislav Ochotnicky