devel January 2009

devel@lists.fedoraproject.org

312 participants
329 discussions

what requires fedora-release-notes
by Peter Vrabec 05 Mar '09

05 Mar '09

Hi folks, why does fedora-release require fedora-release-notes? There are different aims to adjust package dependencies for security or minimal installation reasons. For example: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Server I'm wondering if we can avoid fedora-release-notes in minimal installation. fedora-release-notes ~ 5MB thnx., Peter.

12 21

Confirmed premature hard disk failure
by Callum Lerwick 04 Mar '09

04 Mar '09

Now one occurrence doesn't prove it was the Load_Cycle_Count problem that killed the drive, but this drive is definitely prematurely failed. This is going to be spammy, I think it is important to document this so we can all learn from it... The drive I posted about a while back: https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2008-July/msg00426.html Is now definitely failing as of about 3-4 weeks ago. It's at the stage where the drive still seems to be mostly readable, but IO bandwidth has dropped like a rock. Booting Fedora takes like 20 minutes. Same thing two previous failed drives did. The drive has a manufacture date of May 2007. I have no reason to believe the drive has been mistreated, no more than typical laptop wear and tear. It is a "desktop replacement" laptop and is rarely transported. Fortunately /home seems to be readable. Media errors show up in the syslog, but no IO errors are turning up in user space. The WinXP partition seems to be trashed, however. So much for my wife's Half Life 2 and Spore savegames... ata1.00: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x0 ata1.00: BMDMA stat 0x25 ata1.00: cmd 25/00:00:00:58:08/00:04:00:00:00/e0 tag 0 dma 524288 in res 51/40:0f:f1:59:08/40:02:00:00:00/e0 Emask 0x9 (media error) ata1.00: status: { DRDY ERR } ata1.00: error: { UNC } ata1.00: configured for UDMA/100 ata1: EH complete ata1.00: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x0 ata1.00: BMDMA stat 0x25 ata1.00: cmd 25/00:00:00:58:08/00:04:00:00:00/e0 tag 0 dma 524288 in res 51/40:0f:f1:59:08/40:02:00:00:00/e0 Emask 0x9 (media error) ata1.00: status: { DRDY ERR } ata1.00: error: { UNC } ata1.00: configured for UDMA/100 ata1: EH complete ata1.00: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x0 ata1.00: BMDMA stat 0x25 ata1.00: cmd 25/00:00:00:58:08/00:04:00:00:00/e0 tag 0 dma 524288 in res 51/40:0f:f1:59:08/40:02:00:00:00/e0 Emask 0x9 (media error) ata1.00: status: { DRDY ERR } ata1.00: error: { UNC } ata1.00: configured for UDMA/100 ata1: EH complete ata1.00: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x0 ata1.00: BMDMA stat 0x25 ata1.00: cmd 25/00:00:00:58:08/00:04:00:00:00/e0 tag 0 dma 524288 in res 51/40:0f:f1:59:08/40:02:00:00:00/e0 Emask 0x9 (media error) ata1.00: status: { DRDY ERR } ata1.00: error: { UNC } ata1.00: configured for UDMA/100 ata1: EH complete ata1.00: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x0 ata1.00: BMDMA stat 0x25 ata1.00: cmd 25/00:00:00:58:08/00:04:00:00:00/e0 tag 0 dma 524288 in res 51/40:0f:f1:59:08/40:02:00:00:00/e0 Emask 0x9 (media error) ata1.00: status: { DRDY ERR } ata1.00: error: { UNC } ata1.00: configured for UDMA/100 ata1: EH complete ata1.00: exception Emask 0x0 SAct 0x0 SErr 0x0 action 0x0 ata1.00: BMDMA stat 0x25 ata1.00: cmd 25/00:00:00:58:08/00:04:00:00:00/e0 tag 0 dma 524288 in res 51/40:0f:f1:59:08/40:02:00:00:00/e0 Emask 0x9 (media error) ata1.00: status: { DRDY ERR } ata1.00: error: { UNC } ata1.00: configured for UDMA/100 sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Result: hostbyte=DID_OK driverbyte=DRIVER_SENSE,SUGGEST_OK sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Sense Key : Medium Error [current] [descriptor] Descriptor sense data with sense descriptors (in hex): 72 03 11 04 00 00 00 0c 00 0a 80 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 59 f1 sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Add. Sense: Unrecovered read error - auto reallocate failed end_request: I/O error, dev sda, sector 547313 ata1: EH complete sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA Full smartctl -a output, after salvaging some data: smartctl version 5.38 [x86_64-redhat-linux-gnu] Copyright (C) 2002-8 Bruce Allen Home page is http://smartmontools.sourceforge.net/ === START OF INFORMATION SECTION === Model Family: Western Digital Scorpio family Device Model: WDC WD600VE-11KWT0 Serial Number: WD-WXEY06009078 Firmware Version: 01.03K01 User Capacity: 60,011,642,880 bytes Device is: In smartctl database [for details use: -P show] ATA Version is: 7 ATA Standard is: Exact ATA specification draft version not indicated Local Time is: Tue Dec 30 17:09:36 2008 CST SMART support is: Available - device has SMART capability. SMART support is: Enabled === START OF READ SMART DATA SECTION === SMART overall-health self-assessment test result: PASSED General SMART Values: Offline data collection status: (0x00) Offline data collection activity was never started. Auto Offline Data Collection: Disabled. Self-test execution status: ( 121) The previous self-test completed having the read element of the test failed. Total time to complete Offline data collection: (3180) seconds. Offline data collection capabilities: (0x7b) SMART execute Offline immediate. Auto Offline data collection on/off support. Suspend Offline collection upon new command. Offline surface scan supported. Self-test supported. Conveyance Self-test supported. Selective Self-test supported. SMART capabilities: (0x0003) Saves SMART data before entering power-saving mode. Supports SMART auto save timer. Error logging capability: (0x01) Error logging supported. No General Purpose Logging support. Short self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 2) minutes. Extended self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 44) minutes. Conveyance self-test routine recommended polling time: ( 6) minutes. SMART Attributes Data Structure revision number: 16 Vendor Specific SMART Attributes with Thresholds: ID# ATTRIBUTE_NAME FLAG VALUE WORST THRESH TYPE UPDATED WHEN_FAILED RAW_VALUE 1 Raw_Read_Error_Rate 0x000f 198 198 051 Pre-fail Always - 5472 3 Spin_Up_Time 0x0003 150 119 021 Pre-fail Always - 1466 4 Start_Stop_Count 0x0032 097 097 000 Old_age Always - 3359 5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct 0x0033 197 197 140 Pre-fail Always - 19 7 Seek_Error_Rate 0x000f 200 200 051 Pre-fail Always - 0 9 Power_On_Hours 0x0032 092 092 000 Old_age Always - 6564 10 Spin_Retry_Count 0x0012 092 085 051 Old_age Always - 22 11 Calibration_Retry_Count 0x0012 100 100 051 Old_age Always - 0 12 Power_Cycle_Count 0x0032 100 100 000 Old_age Always - 359 192 Power-Off_Retract_Count 0x0032 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 350 193 Load_Cycle_Count 0x0032 061 061 000 Old_age Always - 419536 194 Temperature_Celsius 0x0022 087 071 000 Old_age Always - 56 196 Reallocated_Event_Count 0x0032 196 196 000 Old_age Always - 4 197 Current_Pending_Sector 0x0012 192 190 000 Old_age Always - 86 198 Offline_Uncorrectable 0x0010 100 253 000 Old_age Offline - 0 199 UDMA_CRC_Error_Count 0x003e 200 200 000 Old_age Always - 0 200 Multi_Zone_Error_Rate 0x0009 200 200 051 Pre-fail Offline - 3 SMART Error Log Version: 1 ATA Error Count: 2803 (device log contains only the most recent five errors) CR = Command Register [HEX] FR = Features Register [HEX] SC = Sector Count Register [HEX] SN = Sector Number Register [HEX] CL = Cylinder Low Register [HEX] CH = Cylinder High Register [HEX] DH = Device/Head Register [HEX] DC = Device Command Register [HEX] ER = Error register [HEX] ST = Status register [HEX] Powered_Up_Time is measured from power on, and printed as DDd+hh:mm:SS.sss where DD=days, hh=hours, mm=minutes, SS=sec, and sss=millisec. It "wraps" after 49.710 days. Error 2803 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 6563 hours (273 days + 11 hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle. After command completion occurred, registers were: ER ST SC SN CL CH DH -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 40 51 18 f1 41 e8 e2 Error: UNC 24 sectors at LBA = 0x02e841f1 = 48775665 Commands leading to the command that caused the error were: CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- -------------------- c8 00 40 c9 41 e8 02 08 01:07:07.212 READ DMA 27 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 01:07:07.211 READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS EXT ec 00 00 00 00 00 00 0a 01:07:07.208 IDENTIFY DEVICE ef 03 45 00 00 00 00 0a 01:07:07.206 SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode] 27 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 01:07:07.205 READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS EXT Error 2802 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 6563 hours (273 days + 11 hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle. After command completion occurred, registers were: ER ST SC SN CL CH DH -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 40 51 18 f1 41 e8 e2 Error: UNC 24 sectors at LBA = 0x02e841f1 = 48775665 Commands leading to the command that caused the error were: CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- -------------------- c8 00 40 c9 41 e8 02 08 01:07:04.430 READ DMA 27 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 01:07:04.429 READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS EXT ec 00 00 00 00 00 00 0a 01:07:04.427 IDENTIFY DEVICE ef 03 45 00 00 00 00 0a 01:07:04.427 SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode] 27 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 01:07:04.426 READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS EXT Error 2801 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 6563 hours (273 days + 11 hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle. After command completion occurred, registers were: ER ST SC SN CL CH DH -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 40 51 18 f1 41 e8 e2 Error: UNC 24 sectors at LBA = 0x02e841f1 = 48775665 Commands leading to the command that caused the error were: CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- -------------------- c8 00 40 c9 41 e8 02 08 01:07:01.254 READ DMA 27 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 01:07:01.254 READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS EXT ec 00 00 00 00 00 00 0a 01:07:01.251 IDENTIFY DEVICE ef 03 45 00 00 00 00 0a 01:07:01.248 SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode] 27 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 01:07:01.248 READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS EXT Error 2800 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 6563 hours (273 days + 11 hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle. After command completion occurred, registers were: ER ST SC SN CL CH DH -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 40 51 18 f1 41 e8 e2 Error: UNC 24 sectors at LBA = 0x02e841f1 = 48775665 Commands leading to the command that caused the error were: CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- -------------------- c8 00 40 c9 41 e8 02 08 01:06:58.277 READ DMA 27 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 01:06:58.277 READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS EXT ec 00 00 00 00 00 00 0a 01:06:58.274 IDENTIFY DEVICE ef 03 45 00 00 00 00 0a 01:06:58.271 SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode] 27 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 01:06:58.271 READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS EXT Error 2799 occurred at disk power-on lifetime: 6563 hours (273 days + 11 hours) When the command that caused the error occurred, the device was active or idle. After command completion occurred, registers were: ER ST SC SN CL CH DH -- -- -- -- -- -- -- 40 51 18 f1 41 e8 e2 Error: UNC 24 sectors at LBA = 0x02e841f1 = 48775665 Commands leading to the command that caused the error were: CR FR SC SN CL CH DH DC Powered_Up_Time Command/Feature_Name -- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- ---------------- -------------------- c8 00 40 c9 41 e8 02 08 01:06:55.684 READ DMA 27 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 01:06:55.684 READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS EXT ec 00 00 00 00 00 00 0a 01:06:55.681 IDENTIFY DEVICE ef 03 45 00 00 00 00 0a 01:06:55.678 SET FEATURES [Set transfer mode] 27 00 00 00 00 00 00 08 01:06:55.678 READ NATIVE MAX ADDRESS EXT SMART Self-test log structure revision number 1 Num Test_Description Status Remaining LifeTime(hours) LBA_of_first_error # 1 Short offline Completed: read failure 90% 6564 789370 # 2 Conveyance offline Completed: read failure 90% 6564 789370 # 3 Extended offline Completed: read failure 90% 6562 789370 # 4 Extended offline Completed: read failure 90% 6562 789369 # 5 Extended offline Completed: read failure 90% 6560 85755114 # 6 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 6455 - # 7 Extended offline Interrupted (host reset) 60% 6455 - # 8 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 4402 - # 9 Extended offline Completed without error 00% 0 - #10 Short offline Completed without error 00% 0 - SMART Selective self-test log data structure revision number 1 SPAN MIN_LBA MAX_LBA CURRENT_TEST_STATUS 1 0 0 Not_testing 2 0 0 Not_testing 3 0 0 Not_testing 4 0 0 Not_testing 5 0 0 Not_testing Selective self-test flags (0x0): After scanning selected spans, do NOT read-scan remainder of disk. If Selective self-test is pending on power-up, resume after 0 minute delay. Self tests 1-4 were done just today. Test 5 was done when the drive first started failing 3-4 weeks ago, after which the machine was kept off until now. 6 and 7 are from when I first noticed Current_Pending_Sector was nonzero, maybe a month or two ago. 8 is from my post in July. 9 and 10 are from when the drive was new. Things to note: 1) The SMART health status is PASSED. Just like every other failed drive I've had... 2) None of the attributes are failed. 3) By the time the self tests start failing, it is too late, you are already losing data. We can not trust the drive to assess itself properly. If we ever get a SMART desktop alert thing going, we MUST look directly at the attributes, and come to our own conclusion. Any questions before I RMA the drive?

10 14

Draft guidelines for approving provenpackager
by Jesse Keating 28 Feb '09

28 Feb '09

We don't currently have guidelines for granting access to proven packager. I took a work item from FESCo to create a draft for this, and here is my first stab at it (words in camelcase exist to be replaced with links to pages concerning them): Provenpackager is a group of highly skilled package maintainers who are experienced in a wide variety of package types and who are intimately familiar with the PackagingGuidelines and MaintainerPolicies as well as acutely aware of ReleaseSchedules and FreezePolicies. They exist as a group to lend a hand when help is needed, always with a desire to improve the quality of Fedora. By granting membership into provenpackager for a maintainer you are confirming that at least in your mind they meet the above criteria and that you would trust them fully with any of the packages you either maintain or even just use. -- Jesse Keating Fedora -- Freedom² is a feature! identi.ca: http://identi.ca/jkeating

7 12

Help needed with latex/R doc font issue
by Orion Poplawski 27 Feb '09

27 Feb '09

I'm trying to update R-lmtest to the latest release, but am having trouble during the documentation build step: * checking PDF version of manual ... ERROR LaTeX errors when creating PDF version. This typically indicates Rd problems. LaTeX errors found: ! Package textcomp Error: Symbol \textcurrency not provided by (textcomp) font family ptm in TS1 encoding. (textcomp) Default family used instead. See the textcomp package documentation for explanation. Now, the shipped docs are in ISO-8599 encoding, so I convert the to UTF-8 with: for x in lmtest/man/*.Rd do iconv -f iso-8859-1 -t utf-8 < ${x} | tr -d '\r' > ${x}.utf-8 touch -r ${x} ${x}.utf-8 mv ${x}.utf-8 ${x} done This worked fine the last time I built the package (2008-06-25 for F-10). If I take out the iconv step, the documentation builds fine. Seems like a tex font is not getting installed that needs to be? BuildRequires: R-devel, tetex-latex, R-zoo Mock root contains: DEBUG util.py:250: fontconfig x86_64 2.6.0-3.fc10 fedora 183 k DEBUG util.py:250: fontconfig-devel x86_64 2.6.0-3.fc10 fedora 216 k DEBUG util.py:250: ghostscript-fonts noarch 5.50-19.fc10 fedora 812 k DEBUG util.py:250: libXfont x86_64 1.3.3-1.fc10 fedora 232 k DEBUG util.py:250: libfontenc x86_64 1.0.4-6.fc10 fedora 24 k DEBUG util.py:250: texlive-texmf-errata-fonts noarch 2007-5.fc11 fedora 3.7 k DEBUG util.py:250: texlive-texmf-fonts noarch 2007-26.fc10 fedora 56 M DEBUG util.py:250: urw-fonts noarch 2.4-6.fc10 fedora 3.2 M DEBUG util.py:250: xorg-x11-font-utils x86_64 1:7.2-6.fc10 fedora 79 k DEBUG util.py:250: tex-preview noarch 11.85-7.fc9 fedora 52 k DEBUG util.py:250: texinfo x86_64 4.13a-1.fc11 fedora 885 k DEBUG util.py:250: texlive x86_64 2007-39.fc11 fedora 2.2 M DEBUG util.py:250: texlive-dvips x86_64 2007-39.fc11 fedora 197 k DEBUG util.py:250: texlive-latex x86_64 2007-39.fc11 fedora 82 k DEBUG util.py:250: texlive-texmf noarch 2007-26.fc10 fedora 3.5 M DEBUG util.py:250: texlive-texmf-dvips noarch 2007-26.fc10 fedora 378 k DEBUG util.py:250: texlive-texmf-errata noarch 2007-5.fc11 fedora 3.6 k DEBUG util.py:250: texlive-texmf-errata-dvips noarch 2007-5.fc11 fedora 3.6 k DEBUG util.py:250: texlive-texmf-errata-fonts noarch 2007-5.fc11 fedora 3.7 k DEBUG util.py:250: texlive-texmf-errata-latex noarch 2007-5.fc11 fedora 3.7 k DEBUG util.py:250: texlive-texmf-fonts noarch 2007-26.fc10 fedora 56 M DEBUG util.py:250: texlive-texmf-latex noarch 2007-26.fc10 fedora 6.0 M DEBUG util.py:250: texlive-utils x86_64 2007-39.fc11 fedora 236 k -- Orion Poplawski Technical Manager 303-415-9701 x222 NWRA/CoRA Division FAX: 303-415-9702 3380 Mitchell Lane orion(a)cora.nwra.com Boulder, CO 80301 http://www.cora.nwra.com

7 14

MAVEN_OPTS and mvn-jpp
by Jerry James 27 Feb '09

27 Feb '09

I'm having a build failure, on rawhide only, of a Java package that is built with maven. When I run maven from the command line, if I give it more than one -DXXX option, it always complains that the second one is not a valid target. I took a tip from a web site that mentions this problem and tried this (where the first 3 -DXXX options are from /usr/bin/mvn-jpp, and the 4th is the recommended way of using mvn-jpp in a spec file): $ export MAVEN_OPTS="-Dmaven2.offline.mode -Dmaven2.ignore.versions -Dmaven2.usejppjars -Dmaven.repo.local=$MAVEN_REPO_LOCAL" $ mvn install That worked. Is this an expected change? If so, both the /usr/bin/mvn-jpp script and the wiki description of how to use maven will have to be changed. If not, does anyone have any idea why multiple -DXXX options aren't working for me? Again, this is on Rawhide only. Thanks, -- Jerry James http://loganjerry.googlepages.com/

4 11

Features/ArchitectureSupport - changing what we build for
by Bill Nottingham 26 Feb '09

26 Feb '09

Kevin Fenzi (kevin(a)scrye.com) said, in the FESCo meeting summary: > * Architecture Support > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/ArchitectureSupport > > FESCo tabled this to revisit this next week. There were questions > about OLPC support and LSTP client machines. Discussion to continue > on fedora-devel list. As a followup to the discussion on compiler flags, this feature was written up to describe a plan for what to do overall about what architectures we support. The main points are: - install x86_64 kernel on 32-bit OS where appropriate - install PAE kernel on other 32-bit OS installs where appropriate - build only i686 and above for Fedora The last one is the issue that caused discussion during the FESCo meeting. The main points raised: - XO support There is concern that building for i686 might break binaries on the XO. The Geode on the XO self-reports as i586; this may need slight frobbing. Aside from that, it "supports the i686 (Pentium Pro) instruction set, MMX, the parts of SSE that do not involve SSE registers, 3DNow! Enhanced, a couple Geode-specific instructions and a few SSE2 instructions." (http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Geode_instruction_set) This implies it should work; however, there have been bugs in the past (https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=200330). Chris Ball stated "my input as OLPC software dude is that we're probably okay with dropping 586, but it would be great if someone heled us test that everything's looking okay first." - K12Linux/thin client Some older thin client hardware is not i686 compatible. Warren has more info on this. One question I have is that some of this is mentioned as being Geode - wouldn't this fall into the same category as the XO? Also, just how much of this hardware is out there using Fedora now (as oppposed to RHEL, CentOS, or some other distribution?) More info is on the feature page. Note that in the smolt stats, i586 accounts for less than one twentieth of one percent of active systems, an order of magnitude less than PowerPC. Bill

37 110

Draft: simple update description guidelines
by Rahul Sundaram 16 Feb '09

16 Feb '09

Hi, The following are a set of simple guidelines for the update descriptions via bodhi (which is used by PackageKit to inform users of what has changed). These guidelines are intended to help end users understand the nature of changes in the update better. Bodhi is not used in rawhide, so these guidelines are not applicable for rawhide updates. Note that this is not connected to the rpm changelog. I have tried to summarize what has been suggested in a couple of earlier threads. If there is anything else that needed to be added, do let me know. If there is FESCo approval and general consensus, we can add this to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/MaintainerResponsibility and add a reference to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/UpdatingPackageHowTo#Submi… --- * All Updates must refer to a upstream changelog or equivalent if one exists. Otherwise a brief description (a couple of sentence at most) justifying the need for an update must be provided by the maintainers pushing the update. * If there are downstream bugs being fixed or intended to be fixed with an update, it must be referred within the update. Maintainers can choose to let bodhi auto close bugs or close it manually as well. * For security update, add CVE information, if one exists. * It is highly recommended that package maaintainers highlight major new features, critical bug fixes or anything else that has a potential high impact on consumers of your update. --- Please be specific in your comments and try and be constructive. Thank you. Rahul

25 97

RE: F10 and no root login - impossible to maintain systems!
by Shawn Starr 12 Feb '09

12 Feb '09

> -----Original Message----- > From: fedora-devel-list-bounces(a)redhat.com > [mailto:fedora-devel-list-bounces@redhat.com]On Behalf Of > Rahul Sundaram > Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 3:02 AM > To: Development discussions related to Fedora > Subject: Re: F10 and no root login - impossible to maintain systems! > > > Robert Scheck wrote: > > On Wed, 21 Jan 2009, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > >> You can at run level 3. You can even start X after that. > > > > Haha, if the machine is a few hundred miles away at the > customer and you > > don't have any longer access? Ever tried to explain a > non-computer user > > being near to the machine how to solve issues via phone if > it's urgent or > > even critical and time to drive the few hundred miles is > not available, > > too? Very clever suggestion, you've made... > > Yes. I have. For a few years actually and in my experience, it has > always been more efficient to instruct people type things in the > terminal rather than login via GDM as root user. For one, the > shell is > pretty consistent, commands don't change often if at all and for > administration, you frequently have to fall back to the > terminal anyway. > > Never once have I felt a real need to tell people to get a > root X login > for any reason at all. I'm going to jump into this flamefest, Can we STOP with the "Mother knows best" menality in Fedora? I have needed to log in as root with X a few times. Stop turning Fedora into a 'Ubuntu'. > > Rahul > > -- > fedora-devel-list mailing list > fedora-devel-list(a)redhat.com > https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list >

8 8

Orphaning: MochiKit
by Konstantin Ryabitsev 11 Feb '09

11 Feb '09

Hi, all: I no longer use MochiKit, so I am not a good maintainer. There is a new release, which is quite different from the old one, so it's best if someone can thoroughly test it before updating packages. If you use MochiKit in your projects, please feel free to pick it up. Cheers, -- Konstantin Ryabitsev Montréal, Québec

5 8

F10 Live CD possible bug
by Nathanael D. Noblet 11 Feb '09

11 Feb '09

Hello, I downloaded the live cd of F10 beta. Booted and added the live_ram option to the boot params. After copying the image to RAM I get the following error on two machines, (Apple Mac Book, and Acer 3680). Done copying live image to RAM. eject: did not find a device /dev/root in /sys/block Bug in initramfs /init detected. Dropping to a shell. Good luck! sbin/real-init: line 7: plymouth: command not found I know I used that param for F9. Is it depreciated or is this a bug needing filling? -- Nathanael d. Noblet

6 9

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devel January 2009