https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/AArch64_Xfce_Desktop_image
== Summary == Add an AArch64 Xfce Desktop image to deliverables in Fedora 31.
== Owner == * Name: [[User:pwhalen| Paul Whalen]] * Email: pwhalen@fedoraproject.org * Responsible WG: ARM SIG
== Detailed Description ==
We currently offer Workstation, Minimal and Server images for use with AArch64 Single Board Computer's (SBC's). We would like to add a lighter weight desktop image for hardware that lacks the ability to run accelerated desktops.
An initial set of supported devices: * Pine64 * Raspberry Pi 3/4 * 96boards HiKey * 96boards Dragonboard 410c
== Benefit to Fedora == Better user experience and an additional desktop choice for AArch64 SBC's.
== Scope == * Proposal owners: The ARM SIG will make the kickstart changes needed to add the desktop images to the compose. * Other developers: N/A * Release engineering: Enable building of the AArch64 XFCE desktop image. Small tweaks may be required to the pungi configs or fedora kickstarts but those will be completed by the SIG and sent as pull requests. Issue[https://pagure.io/releng/issue/8556 #8556] * Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change) * Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
== Upgrade/compatibility impact == No upgrade compatibility required, this is a new image variant.
== How To Test == Testing can be completed on any supported AArch64 SBC using the existing arm-image-installer. Any additional instructions will be added to the ARM installation documentation.
== User Experience == Users will have increased choice in desktop offerings for AArch64 SBC's. Those looking to install a desktop on hardware that lacks an accelerated graphics driver or lower system specifications will have a useable option.
== Dependencies ==
N/A (not a System Wide Change)
== Contingency Plan ==
* Contingency mechanism: N/A * Contingency deadline: N/A * Blocks release? No * Blocks product? No
== Documentation == All documentation will be added or updated via the ARM Landing Page.
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 03:12:29PM -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
We currently offer Workstation, Minimal and Server images for use with AArch64 Single Board Computer's (SBC's). We would like to add a lighter weight desktop image for hardware that lacks the ability to run accelerated desktops.
Are people using gnome-shell on arm64 machines? Would it make sense to simply switch Workstation default to xfce on arm64?
Zbyszek
An initial set of supported devices:
- Pine64
- Raspberry Pi 3/4
- 96boards HiKey
- 96boards Dragonboard 410c
== Benefit to Fedora == Better user experience and an additional desktop choice for AArch64 SBC's.
== Scope ==
- Proposal owners: The ARM SIG will make the kickstart changes needed
to add the desktop images to the compose.
- Other developers: N/A
- Release engineering: Enable building of the AArch64 XFCE desktop
image. Small tweaks may be required to the pungi configs or fedora kickstarts but those will be completed by the SIG and sent as pull requests. Issue[https://pagure.io/releng/issue/8556 #8556]
- Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change)
- Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
== Upgrade/compatibility impact == No upgrade compatibility required, this is a new image variant.
== How To Test == Testing can be completed on any supported AArch64 SBC using the existing arm-image-installer. Any additional instructions will be added to the ARM installation documentation.
== User Experience == Users will have increased choice in desktop offerings for AArch64 SBC's. Those looking to install a desktop on hardware that lacks an accelerated graphics driver or lower system specifications will have a useable option.
== Dependencies ==
N/A (not a System Wide Change)
== Contingency Plan ==
- Contingency mechanism: N/A
- Contingency deadline: N/A
- Blocks release? No
- Blocks product? No
== Documentation == All documentation will be added or updated via the ARM Landing Page.
-- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Fedora Program Manager Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 5:29 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek zbyszek@in.waw.pl wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 03:12:29PM -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
We currently offer Workstation, Minimal and Server images for use with AArch64 Single Board Computer's (SBC's). We would like to add a lighter weight desktop image for hardware that lacks the ability to run accelerated desktops.
Are people using gnome-shell on arm64 machines? Would it make sense to simply switch Workstation default to xfce on arm64?
Workstation isn't just the "default desktop". It's a curated experience that GNOME is a key part of.
I assume that what they're looking for here is aarch64 media for the XFCE Spin.
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 07:07:27AM -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 5:29 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek zbyszek@in.waw.pl wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 03:12:29PM -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
We currently offer Workstation, Minimal and Server images for use with AArch64 Single Board Computer's (SBC's). We would like to add a lighter weight desktop image for hardware that lacks the ability to run accelerated desktops.
Are people using gnome-shell on arm64 machines? Would it make sense to simply switch Workstation default to xfce on arm64?
Workstation isn't just the "default desktop". It's a curated experience that GNOME is a key part of.
I assume that what they're looking for here is aarch64 media for the XFCE Spin.
Ah, OK. That's a much clearer description. Maybe we could change the Change summary to this?
(We already have Fedora Minimal spin for arm64, so the path for arm64 spins is already trodden.)
Zbyszek
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 11:24 AM Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek zbyszek@in.waw.pl wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 03:12:29PM -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
We currently offer Workstation, Minimal and Server images for use with AArch64 Single Board Computer's (SBC's). We would like to add a lighter weight desktop image for hardware that lacks the ability to run accelerated desktops.
Are people using gnome-shell on arm64 machines? Would it make sense to simply switch Workstation default to xfce on arm64?
We're already creating images for Workstation on aarch64, I am a little late, but am planning on a similar Workstation change I'm just finishing the write up on.
In general there's usecases where a low resource desktop is useful, such on devices with only 1Gb of RAM where Workstation doesn't provide a good experience.
Peter
An initial set of supported devices:
- Pine64
- Raspberry Pi 3/4
- 96boards HiKey
- 96boards Dragonboard 410c
== Benefit to Fedora == Better user experience and an additional desktop choice for AArch64 SBC's.
== Scope ==
- Proposal owners: The ARM SIG will make the kickstart changes needed
to add the desktop images to the compose.
- Other developers: N/A
- Release engineering: Enable building of the AArch64 XFCE desktop
image. Small tweaks may be required to the pungi configs or fedora kickstarts but those will be completed by the SIG and sent as pull requests. Issue[https://pagure.io/releng/issue/8556 #8556]
- Policies and guidelines: N/A (not needed for this Change)
- Trademark approval: N/A (not needed for this Change)
== Upgrade/compatibility impact == No upgrade compatibility required, this is a new image variant.
== How To Test == Testing can be completed on any supported AArch64 SBC using the existing arm-image-installer. Any additional instructions will be added to the ARM installation documentation.
== User Experience == Users will have increased choice in desktop offerings for AArch64 SBC's. Those looking to install a desktop on hardware that lacks an accelerated graphics driver or lower system specifications will have a useable option.
== Dependencies ==
N/A (not a System Wide Change)
== Contingency Plan ==
- Contingency mechanism: N/A
- Contingency deadline: N/A
- Blocks release? No
- Blocks product? No
== Documentation == All documentation will be added or updated via the ARM Landing Page.
-- Ben Cotton He / Him / His Fedora Program Manager Red Hat TZ=America/Indiana/Indianapolis _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 01:32:29PM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
In general there's usecases where a low resource desktop is useful, such on devices with only 1Gb of RAM where Workstation doesn't provide a good experience.
I definitely agree that there's value in providing for such usecases, but I also think there's value in defining that as outside of Workstation's scope and using another name for that offering -- whether just Fedora XFCE or other.
On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 15:48 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 01:32:29PM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
In general there's usecases where a low resource desktop is useful, such on devices with only 1Gb of RAM where Workstation doesn't provide a good experience.
I definitely agree that there's value in providing for such usecases, but I also think there's value in defining that as outside of Workstation's scope and using another name for that offering -- whether just Fedora XFCE or other.
That's what's proposed here, AFAICS. There doesn't seem to be any indication that this would be Workstation-branded. It's just bringing up an existing spin on another arch, essentially.
On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 15:48 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 01:32:29PM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
In general there's usecases where a low resource desktop is useful, such on devices with only 1Gb of RAM where Workstation doesn't provide a good experience.
I definitely agree that there's value in providing for such usecases, but I also think there's value in defining that as outside of Workstation's scope and using another name for that offering -- whether just Fedora XFCE or other.
That's what's proposed here, AFAICS. There doesn't seem to be any indication that this would be Workstation-branded. It's just bringing up an existing spin on another arch, essentially.
That is correct, there's no intention of branding this as Workstation. This is purely bringing the XFCE spin as a pre-built image as we do currently on ARMvv7 or like the live image on x86.
When we promoted ARMv7 there was a requirement of 100% identical or equivalent artifacts as x86_64, when aarch64 was moved to primary koji the requirements had changed due to the Fedora.next and the Editions etc so when we added support for images we only enabled the ones at the time that made sense so we weren't supporting/generating excessive images with the intention that it was easy enough to add when either the Spin maintainers were happy to support their spin on aarch64 or the Arm team had enough bandwidth and there was enough demand for a particular image.
Peter
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 09:51:31AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 15:48 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 01:32:29PM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
In general there's usecases where a low resource desktop is useful, such on devices with only 1Gb of RAM where Workstation doesn't provide a good experience.
I definitely agree that there's value in providing for such usecases, but I also think there's value in defining that as outside of Workstation's scope and using another name for that offering -- whether just Fedora XFCE or other.
That's what's proposed here, AFAICS. There doesn't seem to be any indication that this would be Workstation-branded. It's just bringing up an existing spin on another arch, essentially.
That is correct, there's no intention of branding this as Workstation. This is purely bringing the XFCE spin as a pre-built image
OK. The Change text is clearly confusing in this regards, because it doesn't mention "XFCE spin" anywhere.
Zbyszek
On Thu, 2019-07-25 at 10:28 +0000, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 09:51:31AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 15:48 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 01:32:29PM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
In general there's usecases where a low resource desktop is useful, such on devices with only 1Gb of RAM where Workstation doesn't provide a good experience.
I definitely agree that there's value in providing for such usecases, but I also think there's value in defining that as outside of Workstation's scope and using another name for that offering -- whether just Fedora XFCE or other.
That's what's proposed here, AFAICS. There doesn't seem to be any indication that this would be Workstation-branded. It's just bringing up an existing spin on another arch, essentially.
That is correct, there's no intention of branding this as Workstation. This is purely bringing the XFCE spin as a pre-built image
OK. The Change text is clearly confusing in this regards, because it doesn't mention "XFCE spin" anywhere.
The summary is "Add an AArch64 Xfce Desktop spin disk image to deliverables in Fedora 31."
On Thu, 2019-07-25 at 11:04 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Thu, 2019-07-25 at 10:28 +0000, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote:
On Thu, Jul 25, 2019 at 09:51:31AM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
On Wed, 2019-07-24 at 15:48 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Wed, Jul 24, 2019 at 01:32:29PM +0100, Peter Robinson wrote:
In general there's usecases where a low resource desktop is useful, such on devices with only 1Gb of RAM where Workstation doesn't provide a good experience.
I definitely agree that there's value in providing for such usecases, but I also think there's value in defining that as outside of Workstation's scope and using another name for that offering -- whether just Fedora XFCE or other.
That's what's proposed here, AFAICS. There doesn't seem to be any indication that this would be Workstation-branded. It's just bringing up an existing spin on another arch, essentially.
That is correct, there's no intention of branding this as Workstation. This is purely bringing the XFCE spin as a pre-built image
OK. The Change text is clearly confusing in this regards, because it doesn't mention "XFCE spin" anywhere.
The summary is "Add an AArch64 Xfce Desktop spin disk image to deliverables in Fedora 31."
Oh, actually, that was changed after you wrote your mail. Damn wikis :P
On Wed, 24 Jul 2019 09:28:12 +0000, you wrote:
On Tue, Jul 23, 2019 at 03:12:29PM -0400, Ben Cotton wrote:
We currently offer Workstation, Minimal and Server images for use with AArch64 Single Board Computer's (SBC's). We would like to add a lighter weight desktop image for hardware that lacks the ability to run accelerated desktops.
Are people using gnome-shell on arm64 machines? Would it make sense to simply switch Workstation default to xfce on arm64?
There are finally better ARM boards coming out with more memory (the new Pi 4 has a 4GB option) so going forward Gnome or KDE should become more viable for at least some of these boards.
So an alternative to Workstation for the lower specification boards would seem a better option in addition to the other mentioned issue of what Workstation actually means in a Fedora context.
Hi,
The change proposal submitted here lists the Pi 4 among the supported devices, whereas the wiki page does not. I checked the SUPPORTED-BOARDS file in the accompanying documentation of arm-image-installer and there is no rpi4 in the list of target boards. Will the the Pi 4 be supported at Fedora 31 launch or not?
Best regards, A
The change proposal submitted here lists the Pi 4 among the supported devices, whereas the wiki page does not. I checked the SUPPORTED-BOARDS file in the accompanying documentation of arm-image-installer and there is no rpi4 in the list of target boards. Will the the Pi 4 be supported at Fedora 31 launch or not?
It will not be supported in Fedora 31. It was accidentally added to the original change and the change page subsequently updated to to remove the error but the email had already been sent.
devel mailing list -- devel@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Sun, Oct 13, 2019 at 11:52 AM Peter Robinson pbrobinson@gmail.com wrote:
It will not be supported in Fedora 31. It was accidentally added to the original change and the change page subsequently updated to to remove the error but the email had already been sent.
Thanks Peter. I suppose that since raspbian is still ironing out the kinks, that is to be expected.