Hey,
Today, I just saw the news that Microsoft has joined the OIN[1]. Does this allow Fedora to finally include ExFAT in the distribution, as well as enable ClearType-style font rendering (subpixel rgba hinting)?
[1]: https://www.openinventionnetwork.com/pressrelease_details/?id=89
On Wed, Oct 10, 2018 at 11:37 AM Neal Gompa ngompa13@gmail.com wrote:
Hey,
Today, I just saw the news that Microsoft has joined the OIN[1]. Does this allow Fedora to finally include ExFAT in the distribution, as well as enable ClearType-style font rendering (subpixel rgba hinting)?
Sorry about the misleading title, I meant to put a question mark at the end of the subject!
Greetings,
----- Original Message -----
Today, I just saw the news that Microsoft has joined the OIN[1]. Does this allow Fedora to finally include ExFAT in the distribution, as well as enable ClearType-style font rendering (subpixel rgba hinting)?
That also makes me wonder if Fedora (*COUGH* Matt Miller *COUGH*) might be able to tell us now what the issue was with releasing a Fedora build for distribution within the Microsoft Store that runs under Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL). There was some unstated legal issue. Maybe that'll be resolved too?!?
I would hunt down the link for that discussion and provide it here, but I'm short on time at the moment.
TYL,
Folks,
I'm traveling at the moment, but when I'm back at my desk next week, I'll dig into this. In the interim, please avoid making idle speculation, especially with regard to patents.
Thanks,
~tom
On Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 10:03 AM Scott Dowdle dowdle@montanalinux.org wrote:
Greetings,
----- Original Message -----
Today, I just saw the news that Microsoft has joined the OIN[1]. Does this allow Fedora to finally include ExFAT in the distribution, as well as enable ClearType-style font rendering (subpixel rgba hinting)?
That also makes me wonder if Fedora (*COUGH* Matt Miller *COUGH*) might be able to tell us now what the issue was with releasing a Fedora build for distribution within the Microsoft Store that runs under Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL). There was some unstated legal issue. Maybe that'll be resolved too?!?
I would hunt down the link for that discussion and provide it here, but I'm short on time at the moment.
TYL,
Scott Dowdle 704 Church Street Belgrade, MT 59714 (406)388-0827 [home] (406)994-3931 [work] _______________________________________________ legal mailing list -- legal@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to legal-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/legal@lists.fedoraproject.org
Greetings,
----- Original Message -----
I'm traveling at the moment, but when I'm back at my desk next week, I'll dig into this. In the interim, please avoid making idle speculation, especially with regard to patents.
Ok, but I thought this from an LWN comment by Bradley Kuhn might be useful in upping the signal/info on the topic:
- - - - -
"I just posted a call for Microsoft to upstream exfat into Linux as a show of good faith that their intention is to stop patent shakdowns against the software freedom community(1). I urge everyone to carefully read the OIN agreement and their Linux System Definition(2) to understand the limits of OIN's limited patent non-aggression pact."
(1) https://sfconservancy.org/blog/2018/oct/10/microsoft-oin-exfat/ (2) https://www.openinventionnetwork.com/joining-oin/linux-system/
- - - - -
TYL,
Just to swing back on this thread:
While Microsoft joining OIN is a very good thing for Linux and FOSS, it does not have any immediate impact to the packages (or configurations of packages) which are currently acceptable or included in Fedora. Fedora is hopeful that future revisions of the Linux Environment Components lists [A] (that define the Linux System Definition covered by OIN) will include newer (e.g. Freetype after 2.5.0) and additional components (e.g. exfat FUSE userspace utilities, WMV codecs, EAS support) to enable unencumbered use of open source implementations of Microsoft standards and technologies. If/when those the Linux Environment Components list is amended for new Tables, Fedora will revisit the acceptability of packages (or configurations of packages) as a result. [B]
Additionally, I would personally love to see Microsoft take two additional actions:
1. Adopt its own version of Red Hat's Patent Promise [C], specifically such that it explicitly agrees not to enforce its patents against Free and Open Source Software. This action would show a true commitment to Open Source on Microsoft's part, beyond the limited (but useful) scope of OIN.
2. Commit driver support for the exFAT filesystem directly into the Linux kernel, with a corresponding patent grant. This would not only close a long-standing compatibility limitation for external media use on Linux, but it would provide a concrete example that Microsoft is an active and ingenuous member of the FOSS community, outside of open-sourcing its own previously proprietary efforts.
****
That said, I have no influence (nor direct connection) to Microsoft (either personally or via my employer), so I'm mostly wishing into the void. :)
~tom
[A] https://www.openinventionnetwork.com/joining-oin/linux-system/ [B] To be crystal clear, we do this already as new Tables are updated. [C] https://www.redhat.com/en/about/patent-promise
To err is human, right? :)
I would like to add a minor (but significant) set of clarifications here:
1. Table 8 of the OIN Linux Environment Components has three entries for freetype, one of which I missed on my first analysis. Those entries specify coverage for freetype versions 2.4.11, 2.4.9, and 2.6.3. Since version 2.6.3 contains support for subpixel font rendering, Microsoft's membership in OIN results in Fedora being able to enable that support in our freetype packages, effective immediately. I have already notified the Fedora freetype maintainer of this change.
2. The Linux Environment Components contains a specific exception for audio/video codecs, which are not covered by OIN even if a listed Environment Component enables it. There are some explicit exceptions to that exception, which you can see here: https://www.openinventionnetwork.com/joining-oin/linux-system/linux-system-t...
WMA/WMV is not in that table. This means that even if a component was added to the Linux Environment Components list that had support for those formats, it would not result in Fedora being able to include support for those formats via that component. Of course, Microsoft, as a member of OIN, could add WMA/WMV to Table 0 (the permitted format list) in conjunction with inclusion of a component that enabled WMA/WMV support, but this is more complex and nuanced that the addition of other components that enable Microsoft standards and technologies.
TLDR: We _can_ enable full subpixel rendering in Fedora's freetype. WMV was probably a poor example to call out in an OIN context.
Thanks,
~tom
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Neal Gompa -
Scott Dowdle -
tcallawa＠redhat.com -
Tom Callaway