wiki June 2010

wiki@lists.fedoraproject.org

12 participants
9 discussions

untouched pages: delete 'em?
by Ian Weller 03 Jul '10

03 Jul '10

There's quite a few pages that haven't been touched since their import from MoinMoin, and I'm thinking about mass-deleting 'em. Process for doing so: 1) write script that finds pages that haven't been touched by anybody except ImportUser and Admin 1.5) blog loudly 2) write [[Template:Quarantine]], which will throw pages that transclude it in [[Category:Quarantine]] and explain that the page will be deleted on or after September 1 if the template is not removed 3) write script to mass-delete everything in [[Category:Quarantine]] on September 1 If somebody wants a page back and nobody did anything about the template, pages can still be restored by an admin. Thoughts? I want to make sure that we have a pretty solid consensus here before I go forth with this. -- Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org> () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments

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Some wiki article names are ambiguous
by Aaron Faanes 30 Jun '10

30 Jun '10

I feel like there's usability issues with some articles in the Fedora Project wiki. Here's a sample of some of them: * Websites * Women * L10N * Overview I believe that these pages should be renamed to be more indicative of their content. Specifically, "Fedora" should be included for project pages, non-wiki-like titles such as "Overview" should be renamed, and esoteric abbreviations like L10N should be expanded. * Websites -> Fedora Websites * Women -> Fedora Women * L10N -> Fedora Localization * Overview -> Fedora Project (or perhaps simply Fedora) Most pages should not include Fedora, since the Fedora wiki already implies a bias towards Fedora-related information. For example, I expect a page on Red Hat contributions to contain contributions that Red Hat has made to Fedora, so I feel like this is a suitable name. I don't think this bias is a strong enough reason to exclude it from project pages. I'm not likely to assume that page called "Websites" is a project page since the name gives me no indication. The repetition of "Fedora" and the capitalization in "Fedora Websites" in the URL reinforces the fact that the page is about a group called "Fedora Websites," rather than websites in Fedora. Redirects from "Fedora *" do not sufficiently solve the problem. The title on the article page will still be without "Fedora" and so will still evoke confusion. Tooltips shown by mousing over a link will also show this ambiguous title. Ordinarily, I wouldn't think the repetition of "Fedora" is necessary. http://fedoraproject.org/docs reads much better than http://fedoraproject.org/fedora_docs. This is because I read it as "the docs page in the Fedora Project" and I am not confused. More importantly, I don't have any learned expectations about its content. Wiki pages do have learned expectations. When given a URL to a wiki page, I expect that the content will be an article, and I expect the last part of the URL is the article title. This is why URLs like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki do not strike me as redundant or confusing. On the other hand, I would be confused if http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview contained an overview of the Wikipedia. Our wiki sadly violates these expectations. We name some articles using a "naive" convention, so the page's subject is ambiguous. -- Aaron Faanes

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Fedora wiki style guide
by Aaron Faanes 23 Jun '10

23 Jun '10

(This is a repost in order to start this thread in the wiki mailing list. Sorry for the noise.) Hey everyone, I've been working a lot with the Fedora wiki recently, and I've been accumulating some style ideas as I've been editing. I ended up writing some of my thoughts and suggestions: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Dafrito/Style_guide I'm interested in what you guys have to think about it - especially in what sections represent areas of consensus or disagreement. The guide uses a formal voice for clarity, but I intend for any guideline to be friendly, incremental, and flexible. It's not an all-or-nothing proposal. :) I mean no offense to any other editors, and I apologize in advance if I appear rude in the document. Thank you, -- Aaron Faanes

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How to get *Collapsible tables* on wiki?
by He Rui 22 Jun '10

22 Jun '10

Greetings everyone, Glad to meet you here. I have a question about wiki syntax. I wanna have some Collapsible tables on my wiki pages, like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:Collapsing But when I use the same example code as it suggested, it doesn't work on fedora wiki page, since the following js file is needed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki:Common.js So I want to know if it is possible and allowable to have fedora wiki run this js? If yes, how to load this file? If no, is there any other way to have Collapsible tables on fedora wiki? Many thanks, Hurry (￣▽￣") -- Contacts Hurry FAS Name: Rhe Timezone: UTC+8 TEL: 86-010-62608141 IRC nick: rhe #fedora-qa #fedora-zh

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Re: Fedora wiki style guide
by Karsten Wade 22 Jun '10

22 Jun '10

On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 05:31:46PM -0400, Ian Weller wrote: > On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 01:12:03PM -0500, Aaron Faanes wrote: > > I've been working a lot with the Fedora wiki recently, and I've been > > accumulating some style ideas as I've been editing. I ended up writing > > some of my thoughts and suggestions: > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Dafrito/Style_guide > > > > I'm interested in what you guys have to think about it - especially in > > what sections represent areas of consensus or disagreement. > > > > The guide uses a formal voice for clarity, but I intend for any > > guideline to be friendly, incremental, and flexible. It's not an > > all-or-nothing proposal. :) I mean no offense to any other editors, > > and I apologize in advance if I appear rude in the document. > > This is very good. There's a few things that I'm going to change on it. > Would you mind subscribing to the wiki list and posting this there, too? > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/wiki Oh, yes, definitely, bring it over. (I'm switching my Cc: and will join the thread later, too.) Aaron, you are very much on the mark here. There is desire to adopt exactly the sort of conventions you write down. There is some inertia to deal with, but we can work through that. We've long stated that our *goal* is to be "do it like Wikipedia says to do it, except in these ways ..." and have a few, reasoned exceptions if necessary. For example, this page is specifically useful if you are writing in a MediaWiki syntax and want to convert later to DocBook XML: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_syntax_and_markup#Marking_Technical… Those I would call guidelines on top of how to do things the Wikipedia way, and really most useful in the DocBook situation. However, having matching technical markup usage across the site would be a good thing anyway ... - Karsten -- name: Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Sr. Community Gardener team: Red Hat Community Architecture uri: http://TheOpenSourceWay.org/wiki gpg: AD0E0C41

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Re: Wiki question
by Eric Christensen 22 Jun '10

22 Jun '10

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/06/2010 04:27 PM, Rui Gouveia wrote: > Hi, > > I'm reorganizing the wiki pages for the pt_PT language. And I have some > doubts. I have browsed the help pages, but still, can't find the answers > I need. > > Should I create all the pt_PT pages like this? > > Original: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/<PAGE> > Translated: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Pt_PT/<PAGE> > > or should I create the pages, like the one I'm translating now: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_one_page_release_notes/Pt_PT > > What's your preferred method? > > I looked at what other teams are doing and I find examples for both > ways. The Brasilean team alone uses them both. > > IMHO the Wiki is very "free style" and there's no specific rules for > translations. > > I would appreciate your advice. > > > Thanks for your time. > > Rui Gouveia > Portuguese translation team Good question. Ian, I think we need to have some sort of solution for translating the wiki. Any thoughts? How does Wikipedia do it? - --Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJMFV/AAAoJEDbiLlqcYamx1KcQAIwHHWu791cjiNsF4mriEzYG XlB5ZA9MJ53qeR2UFchZSVll1ZjZCllbMC43gLUV5OUdNw6UMQNlKBpH1ef3b2Ob TG6KGaOOGFvjZbDZcZikgwKKmn0BnsFwRK+rwge+/KeLWSr21cvif11P4CueibiP bE/o/cr+8uaIsk6+zMpk1BmzfqZvj5bgQkQAipZF0kAmap/BzDJKTNHYx/LHC5RG qf0l9xxxmqmA0oHq5kpFcVbNQXFwCKulSM+1YRHn4zKfkgONt/VVdOJSES4fQgh9 KUfYlM+AapgMbur+fCwvoZMy3a9HuJ3EPIR7LrFNBVkKtf5Z43BihfZSKdeODeen AHXRrPE6iJ0gcKNo/dEGXOikjx0hj2d0RnKIhGAFv91gAp647nDjIZpVtujEEDVr VwRHnIfJ3CDxtwbvW7v5zj1IEnTm5OqfMdvIkqmsAdGqqJ1B3/denBhM26Ywr/PC 5X6N8VFvVXAzFmYENZWU8ejVQUrKbqpb45Wk6hRuF+HyMV9UIT+Ug8ayGxlD0g0a 4gntsv63mZU5ouZwa966WuJBynY/NABU28p0czoYleg9IgDjHzFY27MSZDh0Og8Y DpmlMG7kAmM2/hBBoEsnjxvnaBsqwigTeasuJLSD+O3UxUCMfHF3NGbMCT3AIylB 42O2Ritc/k10xLlo8uIb =HO+j -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Fwd: Re: Wiki translations
by Rui Gouveia 22 Jun '10

22 Jun '10

My apologies. I should have sent this to this list. -------- Mensagem Original -------- Assunto: Re: Wiki translations Data: Tue, 22 Jun 2010 09:00:01 -0400 De: Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org> Responder-Para: Fedora Infrastructure <infrastructure(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> Para: infrastructure(a)lists.fedoraproject.org On Tue, Jun 22, 2010 at 12:22:28PM +0100, Rui Gouveia wrote: > I found this page: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Languages > > Are these instructions still valid? For how we do it now, yes. For how we *want* to do it, no. I still need to send that email to the translators list... -- Ian Weller <ian(a)ianweller.org> () ascii ribbon campaign - against html e-mail /\ www.asciiribbon.org - against proprietary attachments

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Re: Wiki translations
by Eric Christensen 13 Jun '10

13 Jun '10

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 On 06/13/2010 08:46 PM, Ian Weller wrote: > On Sun, Jun 13, 2010 at 06:59:12PM -0400, Jon Stanley wrote: >> In Wikipedia, there is a separate installation for every language. I >> don't think that's the road that we'd want to go down, and I thought >> that a scheme had been devised, though I can't for the life of me >> remember what it was. > > We tried setting up something that would do it this way and I think the > amount of maintenance required is too high. I need to decide on > something (finally) so we're going to go with how meta.wikimedia.org > handles translations. > > http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Meta:Interlanguage_links > > It works for wikis that don't have the absolute need for keeping > languages on totally separate instances. It's just as much editing work. > The only disadvantage is that page names aren't in the native language. > > If this is a problem with anybody on the *infrastructure* side of > things, please speak now. I'll be talking to the translators list soon. Ian, This sounds like a really good plan. There isn't any additional instance of MW that needs to be maintained and pages can move around without needing to move a bunch of translations as well. My only thought is how does someone know that the page has been translated into their language? Is there an addon of sorts that can somehow make this notification better? - --Eric -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2.0.14 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQIcBAEBAgAGBQJMFYr/AAoJEDbiLlqcYamx16IP/1AjSdYcM6s6LdUyANdAP37i 4i/6QkSC6LI852lQecwBzIXJMpfmyLicgyZcEqfLVCHoWVYh3LRtsv5vE7FVEyta httJ66o/+Kp2Tc1/N+zcsmQ9GuOFBgcgMWvxU0fRpsFhTjzrKG4LkFoPkEs1cr1a 3UILpl+WxbNg2zYajP0bL1nR84DHHfP6wBfk6IW91qpLaYuQMgOHmLxCzoFx7qhT tvT5gveqxRv75UGkZU/ZKL4bqdr0DFeOFQhi1kC2GalakO8n51AX8dKIWtiy1CAi M2QfgdGEtIaXAgOQu7p/B0qSpkzDOFUTKkZZ8z7uTHpe7QZKab02LNke7JlLbTZ3 Vi2TtaxkOKTxcHr9Yb73j/ZfVfSDpt1ilADtgZMHx9GMzX73jLg/tWHah9pdDggq BT4FLZL00TMxoDmZXba8OtLNWUCithRsLT2I50Yv5kNOkm4Z0Gw0+JUd4Lb3RNMn RJO3yO/01PG8ExT8DiOHeBKY05FBw3/Rdl8A7jB93UoYNK0bKQD58F+T86ZJEd7f U3xW72c3xPhebKwLwCAWJIdmxUj2cdhq8Rb2rv8OXNqtjijdlphP9eDOcZLfnA+0 lO69NoOWV/OnRltk2/2ZPilU6CNmCwYtQ7cM76mVwQkl/8LrqmyS+b51AkwVFbxh DHi9TFiiM4r7ne795frZ =jHTl -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Wiki question
by Rui Gouveia 06 Jun '10

06 Jun '10

Hi, I'm reorganizing the wiki pages for the pt_PT language. And I have some doubts. I have browsed the help pages, but still, can't find the answers I need. Should I create all the pt_PT pages like this? Original: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/<PAGE> Translated: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Pt_PT/<PAGE> or should I create the pages, like the one I'm translating now: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/F13_one_page_release_notes/Pt_PT What's your preferred method? I looked at what other teams are doing and I find examples for both ways. The Brasilean team alone uses them both. IMHO the Wiki is very "free style" and there's no specific rules for translations. I would appreciate your advice. Thanks for your time. Rui Gouveia Portuguese translation team

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wiki June 2010