00:00:12 < knurd> | Meeting ping dgilmore, Jeff_S, knurd, mmcgrath, nirik, stahnma, quaid and everyone interested in EPEL -- EPEL meeting in #fedora-meeting now! 00:00:12 < knurd> | Hi everybody; who's around? 00:00:12 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Sig meeting -- Meeting rules at http://www.fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/Schedule/MeetingGuidelines -- Init process 00:00:13 * | knurd likes to remind people that the schedule and the topic list for todays meeting can be found on http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/Schedule 00:00:28 * | Jeff_S here 00:00:30 * | mmcgrath here 00:00:43 * | nirik is here. 00:01:14 --> | daMaestro (Jon) has joined #fedora-meeting 00:01:31 < knurd> | lala 00:01:42 * | daMaestro sings along 00:01:48 < daMaestro> | epel++ 00:01:50 < daMaestro> | ;-) 00:02:01 < knurd> | well, let's start slowly 00:02:04 < knurd> | daMaestro, :-) 00:02:06 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting – broken deps – Jeff_S 00:02:12 --> | mra (matt anderson) has joined #fedora-meeting 00:02:19 < knurd> | Jeff_S, any progress? 00:02:25 < knurd> | did you poke people? 00:02:43 < Jeff_S> | no, I thought mmcgrath did enough of that for me :) 00:02:53 < mmcgrath> | :: sigh :: 00:02:55 < Jeff_S> | actually, I know a couple packages got fixed 00:02:56 < knurd> | hehe :) 00:02:57 < daMaestro> | i got poked 00:03:05 < daMaestro> | but i have no idea how to fix it.. 00:03:09 < knurd> | daMaestro, eeryone got accidentally 00:03:12 < Jeff_S> | but I ran it again today and there is still a big list 00:03:21 < daMaestro> | ahh, ok; good 00:03:37 < knurd> | mmcgrath, is the script working now? 00:03:41 < Jeff_S> | spot says he is planning to import a bunch of his packages soon 00:03:50 < Jeff_S> | so that should help 00:03:54 < mmcgrath> | knurd: Here's the problem with the script... it requires koji. 00:04:02 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting – broken deps/spam-o-magic – Jeff_S/mmcgrath 00:04:05 * | spot is working on it 00:04:07 < knurd> | mmcgrath, what? 00:04:13 < mmcgrath> | So I'm working to rewrite that part of it to read from owners.list. 00:04:19 < knurd> | how does that script run for FE-6? 00:04:19 < Jeff_S> | but there are some packages which seem to be looking at stuff that is not available in EL4 00:04:19 < spot> | i've just been sidetracked by the need to get rocksndiamonds fixed 00:04:35 * | mmcgrath has no idea. 00:04:42 < knurd> | mmcgrath, ask mschwendt? 00:04:44 < mmcgrath> | spot: Are you working on the script? 00:04:46 < knurd> | mmcgrath, he might know 00:04:56 < knurd> | mmcgrath, and remmeber, owners.epel.list ;-) 00:04:56 < nirik> | I think it has a local copy of owners.list it uses? 00:05:02 < Jeff_S> | http://www.sheltren.com/epel/repoclosure/2007-07-11/epel4-i386-repoclosure.t... <--- see for example postgresql-pgpoolAdmin which requires a higher version of PHP than is in EL4 00:05:02 < mmcgrath> | :) 00:05:41 < quaid> | oi! 00:05:42 < knurd> | well, the plan is to annouce in 8 days iirc 00:05:45 < quaid> | sorry I'm late 00:05:47 < mmcgrath> | spot: ping? 00:05:55 < knurd> | do we get everything fixed until then? 00:05:59 < knurd> | I doubt that a bit 00:06:15 < nirik> | I think we should try and if we need to slip the announcement we can do that... 00:06:23 < Jeff_S> | I doubt it too. The spam script would help, IMO. 00:06:25 < knurd> | mmcgrath, spot afaik only wanted to build his packages, which should solve some of the deps 00:06:35 < mmcgrath> | knurd: ahh. thanks. 00:06:48 < nirik> | mmcgrath: did the spam-o-matic make a valid run after the invalid one? Or it hasn't made a valid run yet? 00:06:52 < knurd> | mmcgrath, send mschwendt a mail about the script 00:06:58 < knurd> | he really should know the answer 00:07:05 < knurd> | mmcgrath, or shall I do? 00:07:13 < mmcgrath> | I'll ping him 00:07:18 < knurd> | mmcgrath, thx 00:07:34 < knurd> | while we were on the shedule already 00:07:36 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting – EPEL annoucement – quiad 00:07:45 < knurd> | so, broken deps not resolved yet 00:07:50 < knurd> | shall we move it one week? 00:07:58 < knurd> | annoucements isn't prepares either afaik 00:08:00 < knurd> | quaid, ? 00:08:21 < quaid> | eh, I put it off because it's not hard to write 00:08:36 < knurd> | hehe 00:08:36 < quaid> | it's not a blocking factor, fwiw 00:08:40 < Jeff_S> | mmcgrath: also if you need help w/ changing the script for epel, I can help 00:09:05 < mmcgrath> | Jeff_S: thanks. 00:09:23 < knurd> | so, move annoucement back by one week as broken deps likely won't get fixed in the next 8 days? 00:09:35 < quaid> | sounds wise 00:09:48 < quaid> | this is one of those "release early, but only when it's not broken" situations 00:09:54 < Jeff_S> | knurd: +1 -- we need to get this sorted out first 00:09:55 < knurd> | agreed 00:09:57 < nirik> | sure. 00:10:11 < knurd> | 20070726 would be the new target then 00:10:39 < Jeff_S> | and maybe we need a big warning on the wiki about pushing stuff to EPEL before deps are there? 00:10:52 * | dgilmore is here 00:10:55 < Jeff_S> | people seem to be assuming that the deps are there just because they are in fedora (extras) 00:10:55 < knurd> | Jeff_S, maybe add something to the faq 00:11:23 < knurd> | that might be the best afaics 00:11:38 < knurd> | hi dgilmore 00:11:46 < nirik> | wish we could block anything with broken deps from pushing. ;( 00:11:58 < knurd> | so, nobody yelled, so 20070726 is the new target then 00:12:09 < knurd> | nirik, bodhi in hte long term :-) 00:12:12 * | knurd moves on 00:12:19 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting – push new packages to testing after EPEL annoucement – dgilmore 00:12:24 < knurd> | dgilmore, I added that 00:12:26 < nirik> | true, although bodhi doesn't currently do repoclosure either. ;) 00:12:32 < knurd> | just wanted to make sure we still are in agreement 00:12:43 < knurd> | all new packages after annoucement go to the testing/ dir? 00:12:59 < knurd> | and we hand move stuff over if peole ask for it? 00:13:26 < knurd> | any maybe do a full testing/X > X move some months later (with RHEL 5.1 maybe) 00:13:36 < knurd> | do we agree on that? 00:13:46 * | nirik thinks that sounds good. 00:13:52 < Jeff_S> | +1 00:14:16 < knurd> | dgilmore, is that possible from the infrastrucutre/pushers point? 00:14:23 < dgilmore> | knurd: i said last week I wont spend the time to manually move bits from testing to stable 00:14:33 < dgilmore> | its manual and labour intensive 00:14:44 < knurd> | dgilmore, so what do you suggest as solution 00:14:46 < dgilmore> | i can push everything to testing pretty easily 00:14:55 <-- | XulChris has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) 00:14:58 < knurd> | sure, that's the plan 00:15:01 < nirik> | the only reason we would need anything manual is for security 00:15:06 < knurd> | but what about security fixes? 00:15:06 < dgilmore> | we have no easy way to move things to stable 00:15:24 < knurd> | well, we need a solution 00:15:27 < dgilmore> | how do we know whats security 00:15:39 < knurd> | someone tells us (via the wiki or a e-mail alias) 00:15:42 < dgilmore> | we can easily put things in one location 00:15:56 < dgilmore> | but to move things we have no way to do that 00:16:05 < nirik> | yeah, without a bodhi we need a manual process. ;( 00:16:19 < knurd> | dgilmore, we use the push scripts for another repo 00:16:30 < knurd> | there a simple move and createrepo works 00:16:39 < knurd> | sure, it's a ugly as hell 00:16:42 < nirik> | dgilmore: wouldn't it just be a matter of 'mv testing/foobar.rpm ../5/; createrepo '? 00:16:42 < knurd> | but possible 00:16:51 < nirik> | yeah... ;( 00:16:52 < knurd> | nirik, exactly that is what I mean 00:17:16 < dgilmore> | nirik: sure but you need to do that mv for each package for each arch and SRPMS 00:17:39 < knurd> | dgilmore, sure, but a simple script can do that 00:17:40 < nirik> | yeah. Not fun at all... but beats having no security updates. ;( 00:17:48 < knurd> | and it should not happen that often 00:17:52 < knurd> | nirik, +1 00:18:09 < dgilmore> | what about new packages? 00:18:18 < nirik> | we can ponder on it and see if we can think of a better way to do it? I can't off hand tho. 00:18:20 < dgilmore> | they go to testing? 00:18:21 < knurd> | we could do monthly "make testing become official repo" until EPEL is bigger 00:18:24 < knurd> | dgilmore, yes 00:18:27 < nirik> | new packages and any other udpates go to testing. 00:18:28 < dgilmore> | when do they go stable? 00:18:43 < nirik> | when rhel does a minor bump. 00:18:46 < knurd> | dgilmore, the old plan was to do that with each RHEL minor bump 00:18:54 < nirik> | 5.0 -> 5.1... then we move testing over 00:18:58 < knurd> | but for the start phase it might be better to do it more often 00:00:07 < dgilmore> | people will want new packages immediatly 00:00:21 < knurd> | every month or ever two months maybe? 00:00:43 < knurd> | dgilmore, and when we do what people want we have lots of broken deps 00:00:46 < nirik> | couldn't people who want a new package enable testing? 00:00:47 < knurd> | just look at EPEL now 00:00:52 < knurd> | nirik, +1 00:20:52 < knurd> | EPEL is for EL, not for Fedora -- thus we need to be a bit more carefull 00:20:56 < knurd> | espeially with broken deps 00:21:05 < knurd> | we don't want to scare people away 00:21:13 < knurd> | other opinions? 00:21:21 < dgilmore> | we need new push scripts then 00:21:36 < dgilmore> | we cant easily do what you want with what we have 00:21:56 < knurd> | dgilmore, I'm willing to do that 00:22:08 < knurd> | e.g. move the securty updates from testing to stable 00:22:18 < knurd> | just need access to the repo then 00:22:29 < dgilmore> | knurd: that is nota huge problem 00:22:30 < knurd> | I suppose nirik would be willing to help as well with it 00:22:39 < nirik> | sure. 00:22:42 < dgilmore> | what is is checking for broken deps before doing pushes 00:22:46 < knurd> | if we share the burden then it should work until we get bodhi for epel 00:23:10 < nirik> | dgilmore: now? nothing. :( repoclosure is really slow too unfortunately. 00:23:17 < knurd> | security updates should normally not introduce broken deps 00:23:42 < dgilmore> | nirik: exactly and each time you find something broken you have to start over 00:23:42 < nirik> | for security I would be willing to manually run repoclosure before any push... 00:23:47 < knurd> | that should be a rare prolem 00:23:57 < knurd> | nirik, +1 00:24:06 < knurd> | nirik, or just look at old package <-> new package 00:24:13 < knurd> | that's easier 00:24:14 < nirik> | I think wwoods was working on a way to get repoclosure or something like it going faster. Not sure where that is tho 00:24:20 <-- | lancelan has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:24:49 --> | lancelan (Lance Davis) has joined #fedora-meeting 00:25:00 < knurd> | so, deal? 00:25:06 < knurd> | all new packages go to testing 00:25:13 < knurd> | security updates hand-moved over 00:25:23 < knurd> | nirik and I will help with that 00:25:32 < knurd> | and we set up a wiki page or a alias up for that? 00:25:34 < nirik> | so, we need script for moving security updates and mass moving testing on minor release? The other current scripts would work ok for testing itself? 00:25:52 < knurd> | script for moving security updates > +1 00:26:06 < knurd> | mass moving testing > + 0.5 00:26:16 < Jeff_S> | well, the mass move is quite simple 00:26:19 < knurd> | that should not happen that often and likely can be done manually 00:26:24 < knurd> | Jeff_S, agreed 00:26:36 < knurd> | check that all deps are sane in stable + testing 00:26:40 < nirik> | well, one is a more general case of the other. ;) But yeah, not a big deal now. 00:26:44 < knurd> | move everything over from testing, done 00:26:47 < Jeff_S> | but yes, a script for moving security updates would be quite helpful I think 00:27:25 < knurd> | settled then? 00:27:55 * | knurd will take silence as agreement soon 00:27:55 < Jeff_S> | sure :) 00:28:03 < knurd> | so let's move on 00:28:12 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting – new meeting time? – all (see also http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/EPEL/NewMeetingTime ) 00:28:18 * | knurd checks that page 00:28:25 < wwoods> | notting and skvidal and lmacken and I discussed a tool for doing quick single-package depchecking but there's no implementation yet 00:28:37 < wwoods> | no one has committed to implementing it 00:28:47 < knurd> | dgilmore, what would be your preferred time? 00:28:57 < Jeff_S> | wwoods: sounds interesting 00:29:22 < Jeff_S> | looks like everyone who edited the page likes the current time 00:29:33 < dgilmore> | knurd: i havent had time to even think about it 00:30:03 < knurd> | well, let's try to get this settled until next week 00:30:16 < dgilmore> | the times that work best for me are probably no good for knurd 00:30:40 < knurd> | dgilmore, sorry, timezone problem... 00:31:02 < knurd> | maybe I should just leave, that would make things easier :-) 00:31:17 < knurd> | dgilmore, ping me when you got some minutes, maybe we can work something out 00:31:23 * | knurd moves on for now 00:31:37 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting – Communication plan for enterprise customers/ISVs/IHVs – stahnma, quaid 00:31:39 < knurd> | any news? 00:31:55 < knurd> | quaid, or just revisit after annoucement? 00:32:35 < knurd> | lala 00:32:48 * | knurd takes that as revisit next week 00:32:52 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting – ExcludeArch TrackerBugs for EPEL – notting/knurd 00:32:55 < knurd> | opinions? 00:33:05 < knurd> | + 0.75 for EPEL-Excludearch trackers from me 00:33:21 < knurd> | can't hurt and is not htat much work 00:33:35 < nirik> | yeah, I think we can have epel versions... as long as the arch folks know to look at them. 00:33:44 < dgilmore> | -1 i think we should reuse what exists 00:33:56 < knurd> | dgilmore, that's to confusing 00:33:57 < quaid> | sorry, was writing :) 00:34:08 < Jeff_S> | dgilmore: but won't we have differences between EPEL/fedora? 00:34:12 < nirik> | I don't much care. I think we should track them tho. 00:34:12 < knurd> | dgilmore, as people that might want to fix Fedora stuff would run into EPEl stuf 00:34:31 <-- | tibbs has quit (Remote closed the connection) 00:34:33 --> | tibbs_ (Jason L Tibbitts III) has joined #fedora-meeting 00:34:56 < dgilmore> | having to keep track of things in two places will mean sometimes things get missed 00:35:01 --> | frozty_sa (frozt01100101) has joined #fedora-meeting 00:35:05 < knurd> | dgilmore, we can block the old Fedora bugs with the EPEL specific bug 00:35:09 < dgilmore> | we dont have different trackers for FC-6 and F-7 00:35:32 < dgilmore> | EL-4 and EL-5 are just different versions 00:35:51 < nirik> | what are the current blockers called? 00:36:12 < knurd> | FE-ExcludeArch-x86_64 iirc 00:36:37 < nirik> | were their different ones for fe and fc? 00:36:44 < knurd> | nirik, nope 00:36:53 < knurd> | not that I'm aware off 00:37:20 <-- | k0k has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:37:33 < knurd> | I'm fine going without them 00:37:39 < knurd> | as long as it's no general problem 00:38:00 < nirik> | we can always revisit... so for now we reuse the existing ones? 00:38:18 < knurd> | nirik, I'd say just ignore the issue for EPEL 00:38:34 < knurd> | devel counts, and that's fedora 00:38:42 --> | _blah_ (rob) has joined #fedora-meeting 00:38:57 < knurd> | I'll send something to the list 00:39:03 < knurd> | then we can decide next week 00:39:12 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting – RHX and EPEL – quaid 00:39:26 < knurd> | quaid, can wait for some more weeks iirc? 00:39:29 < quaid> | nothing new to report yet 00:39:34 < quaid> | yep 00:39:41 < quaid> | it's going to take the time it takes 00:39:47 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: EPEL Meeting -- Free discussion around EPEL 00:39:49 < knurd> | quaid, thx 00:39:53 < knurd> | anything else? 00:40:15 * | knurd will close the meeting in 60 00:40:17 < knurd> | seems not 00:40:29 * | quaid no tengo mas 00:40:41 < dgilmore> | i noticed that dag made some derogatory comments about epel on the centos mailing list 00:40:51 < quaid> | oh, good 00:40:58 < quaid> | nothing quite like keeping the flames warm 00:41:01 < dgilmore> | saying that we dont want to work with him 00:41:12 < quaid> | in fact 00:42:01 --- | tibbs_ is now known as tibbs 00:42:01 < quaid> | I thin that's in our guidelines 00:42:02 < quaid> | it says somewheren "EPEL refuses to work with the followng people" 00:42:02 < quaid> | and then a list 00:42:02 < dgilmore> | quaid: :) 00:42:02 * | quaid hopes his sarcasm is evident in the irclog 00:42:03 < nirik> | ok. 00:42:03 <-- | Jeff_S has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) 00:42:03 * | mmcgrath twiddles thumbs :) 00:42:05 < quaid> | it's hard because these guys all had good points 00:42:15 < quaid> | but they put way too much heat into it 00:42:29 < quaid> | and burned the bridge before it could be built 00:42:45 < quaid> | anyway, water under the ... oh, wait, nevermind 00:42:49 < knurd> | we maybe should some carefully choose words into the wiki 00:42:55 < knurd> | why we didn#t go for repotags 00:43:03 < dgilmore> | http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/2007-July/083569.html 00:43:04 < quaid> | a good FAQ entry 00:43:08 < knurd> | and that we suggest that our contributors cooperate 00:43:26 --> | Jeff_S (Jeff Sheltren) has joined #fedora-meeting 00:43:27 < quaid> | we may be answering this for RHEL's support people when they have customers confused in the future :) 00:43:32 < dgilmore> | i didint know if we should have a statement on the wiki somewhere saying we are willing to accept anybody 00:44:15 < dgilmore> | knurd: repotags were not part of it 00:44:35 < knurd> | well, can't hurt to put some carefully choose words up 00:45:00 < knurd> | any yes, saying somewhere "we are open to annybody to join us" can't hurt either 00:45:24 < knurd> | I can work some sentences out and will send them out 00:45:24 < dgilmore> | i think skvidal would need to do some serious voodoo magic in yum to try and deal with multiple repos providing the same packages in a sane and consistent manner 00:45:29 < dgilmore> | not sure what his voodoo skills are like 00:45:49 < dgilmore> | that is all :) 00:45:53 --> | orc_emac (orc_emac) has joined #fedora-meeting 00:45:59 < knurd> | k, thx for you hints dgilmore 00:46:02 < knurd> | anything else? 00:46:02 < nirik> | priorities or something taging gpg keys to repo would be the only options I can think of. 00:46:39 < daMaestro> | ! 00:46:49 < dgilmore> | knurd: feel free to close up shop 00:47:00 * | knurd will close the meeting in 30 00:47:02 < daMaestro> | I have a question 00:47:11 < knurd> | nirik, a solution might arise over time (or not) 00:47:13 < orc_emac> | knurd: at the end of the day, epel is NOT open to anyone who wants to add patent restricted material; will not sign onto the CLA; or is unwilling to build with non-free binaries 00:47:25 < orc_emac> | that is all OK 00:47:26 < knurd> | orc_emac, okay, you have a point 00:47:35 * | knurd will close the meeting in 20 00:47:39 < orc_emac> | there cannot be total union of all independent packagerts 00:47:39 < mmcgrath> | daMaestro: yes? 00:47:46 < knurd> | knurd, I can add that to the wiki, can't hurt 00:47:50 < daMaestro> | revisor needs the pykickstart from f7; are we "allowed" to build revisor-pykickstart from the bits from f7? 00:47:57 * | knurd will close the meeting in 10 00:47:57 < daMaestro> | or do we have to branch? 00:48:06 < daMaestro> | basically, we'd like to see revisor in epel 00:48:16 < quaid> | fwiw, I'm going to work with the RH GSS (support team) to make sure their standard system checking script knows hunt for non-RHN-provided packages (such as EPEL); I'm sure they have a method, but that's one that would help the support team 00:48:21 < daMaestro> | but we have a blocker requirement of the pykickstart from f7 00:48:21 < nirik> | orc_emac: very true. Can't be everything for everyone. :) 00:48:26 < mmcgrath> | daMaestro: hit us up in #epel after the meeting :) 00:48:30 < daMaestro> | ok 00:48:30 < quaid> | there ya go :) 00:48:34 < knurd> | quaid, good to know :) 00:48:37 * | knurd will close the meeting in 10 00:48:47 < knurd> | -- MARK -- Meeting end 00:48:48 --- | knurd has changed the topic to: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel -- Meetings often get logged -- see schedule in the wiki for next meeting 00:48:51 <-- | _blah_ has left #fedora-meeting ( ) 00:48:51 < knurd> | thx everyone 00:48:54 < mmcgrath> | knurd: thanks 00:49:00 <-- | daMaestro has left #fedora-meeting ( "Leaving") 00:49:00 --- | You're now known as knurd_afk 00:49:03 < knurd_afk> | have fun! 00:49:08 < knurd_afk> | bye 00:49:15 <-- | orc_emac has left #fedora-meeting ( ) 00:49:28 <-- | Jeff_S has left #fedora-meeting ( )