Hello EPEL folks,
Is it possible from RH side to sponsor me with (lets say RHEL 5.X) license for be able to maintain properly the GIS interest group ?
Wiki of GIS, list of packages which I maintain from booth professional reasons and hobby: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/GIS?highlight=(GIS)
I would mention packages are quite picky and hard to maintain, complexity is pretty high, I myself maintain for multiple reasons tham in fedora.
Task is quite difficult without a RHEL desktop, frecvent ABI changes require to develop sort of compat-* library, and its not so easy to test product properly in the lack of properly licensed RHEL desktop. Unfortunatley upstream release cycle is faster than RHEL release one, and new futures are always requested before a new RHEL product series.
Just using blindly the plague client its near impossible to do this task, I personaly fail to do it for EPEL at highest quality with version track and compatibility changes but its an easy task for fedora since there are no strict rules, not to much care if radical upgrade is involved.
I see GIS interest group as a good ground base for all GIS professionists, and finaly RH products could cover this professional area too, wich was completly uncovered before i took the task, and i would like to keep it on.
Also I would mention that other people make money out of these packages and support, I did it for free of course, since these days it quite intersect with my work and professional area in wich i am involved.
Here is one example: http://www.gdf-hannover.de/
Personaly quite dissapointed how they support distros, but its personal opinion dont want any polemics with tham, however I salute their initiative.
Obviously i am a RH fan since 1996, quite difficult to distract my opinion and blame anything about RHEL/Fedora quality.
Best Regards, Cristian.
On Sun, 2008-05-25 at 17:34 +0300, Balint Cristian wrote:
Hello EPEL folks,
Is it possible from RH side to sponsor me with (lets say RHEL 5.X) license for be able to maintain properly the GIS interest group ?
Wiki of GIS, list of packages which I maintain from booth professional reasons and hobby: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/GIS?highlight=(GIS)
I would mention packages are quite picky and hard to maintain, complexity is pretty high, I myself maintain for multiple reasons tham in fedora.
Task is quite difficult without a RHEL desktop, frecvent ABI changes require to develop sort of compat-* library, and its not so easy to test product properly in the lack of properly licensed RHEL desktop. Unfortunatley upstream release cycle is faster than RHEL release one, and new futures are always requested before a new RHEL product series.
Just using blindly the plague client its near impossible to do this task, I personaly fail to do it for EPEL at highest quality with version track and compatibility changes but its an easy task for fedora since there are no strict rules, not to much care if radical upgrade is involved.
I see GIS interest group as a good ground base for all GIS professionists, and finaly RH products could cover this professional area too, wich was completly uncovered before i took the task, and i would like to keep it on.
Also I would mention that other people make money out of these packages and support, I did it for free of course, since these days it quite intersect with my work and professional area in wich i am involved.
Here is one example: http://www.gdf-hannover.de/
Personaly quite dissapointed how they support distros, but its personal opinion dont want any polemics with tham, however I salute their initiative.
Obviously i am a RH fan since 1996, quite difficult to distract my opinion and blame anything about RHEL/Fedora quality.
Best Regards, Cristian.
You should consider using CentOS. [1] It's 99.9% compatible with RHEL.
- Gilboa [1] http://www.centos.org/modules/tinycontent/index.php?id=15
You should consider using CentOS. [1] It's 99.9% compatible with RHEL.
1) How about stuff in .specs: if %{dist?} == rhl5 , rhl4 ?!
2) How about updates, RHEL have a really fancy update schema.
3) And most important how about further reporting bugs to bugzilla (e.g now i have an issue with expat in rhel5 i am lazy to report that it missbehave from one update to another, i even cannot properly test it on my fedora desk, i doubt that CentOS is so in sync with RHEL.
And my list can continue ....
In my opinion its not the same, in fact if i will get bug report i am not quite sure in some circumstances i will be able reproduce it on CentOS, it even sounds strange if i Re: to that bz# that "on my CentOS it works and compile fine" ...
Well than i can renounce and be happy with Fedora.
I thinked to buy one, but since i am happy with fedora just for this task i would like to spend money, i will end up working on something wich i am not paid at all and on top of top issues i pay for anual subscriptions :D
Best Regards, Cristian.
On Sun, 25 May 2008, Balint Cristian wrote:
You should consider using CentOS. [1] It's 99.9% compatible with RHEL.
- How about stuff in .specs:
if %{dist?} == rhl5 , rhl4 ?!
- How about updates, RHEL have a really
fancy update schema.
- And most important how about further
reporting bugs to bugzilla (e.g now i have an issue with expat in rhel5 i am lazy to report that it missbehave from one update to another, i even cannot properly test it on my fedora desk, i doubt that CentOS is so in sync with RHEL.
And my list can continue ....
FYI, for all my epel packages I use CentOS (yes, I'm an @redhat.com)
In my opinion its not the same, in fact if i will get bug report i am not quite sure in some circumstances i will be able reproduce it on CentOS, it even sounds strange if i Re: to that bz# that "on my CentOS it works and compile fine" ...
Your opinion is unfortunatly distant from reality though :-/ Any differences you see between RHEL and CentOS you need to report to CentOS as I'm sure they'd be interested in fixing it. AFAIK there have been very few if any issues supporting EPEL in CentOS as CentOS is one of EPEL's target operating systems. If we're not compatable with CentOS we're doing something wrong.
Well than i can renounce and be happy with Fedora.
This sound strangly like a threat from someone looking to get a free RHEL license.... Just saying.
-Mike
FYI, for all my epel packages I use CentOS (yes, I'm an @redhat.com)
Thats sound more encouraging from your side, i will re-consider CentOS and take a look.
differences you see between RHEL and CentOS you need to report to CentOS as I'm sure they'd be interested in fixing it.
Thats why i was afraid...
I dont want end up maintaining any CentOS too, but probably it was a strong preconception from my side about CentOS. Must confess never took a look at any CentOS untill now.
AFAIK there have been very few if any issues supporting EPEL in CentOS as CentOS is one of EPEL's target operating systems. If we're not compatable with CentOS we're doing something wrong.
See.
Well than i can renounce and be happy with Fedora.
This sound strangly like a threat from someone looking to get a free RHEL license.... Just saying.
It can be not so free. Or i dont know what schema, i questioned the subject and got answer, however i didnt thinked it as an abuse or something like this, but probably thinking in principles than anyone can request licenses and it turn probably into a sort of abuse.
Cristian.
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 9:09 AM, Mike McGrath mmcgrath@redhat.com wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2008, Balint Cristian wrote:
In my opinion its not the same, in fact if i will get bug report i am not quite sure in some circumstances i will be able reproduce it on CentOS, it even sounds strange if i Re: to that bz# that "on my CentOS it works and compile fine" ...
Your opinion is unfortunatly distant from reality though :-/ Any differences you see between RHEL and CentOS you need to report to CentOS as I'm sure they'd be interested in fixing it. AFAIK there have been very few if any issues supporting EPEL in CentOS as CentOS is one of EPEL's target operating systems. If we're not compatable with CentOS we're doing something wrong.
And if CentOS is not bug for bug compatible with Red Hat, we are doing something wrong :) [Says the guy from CentOS.] Ok so we do fix some bugs in anaconda.. but any other bug/enhancements go into Plus
On Sun, 2008-05-25 at 17:56 +0300, Balint Cristian wrote:
You should consider using CentOS. [1] It's 99.9% compatible with RHEL.
- How about stuff in .specs:
if %{dist?} == rhl5 , rhl4 ?!
Spaces are the same.
- How about updates, RHEL have a really
fancy update schema.
CentOS needs ~2-3 days to rebuild and push RHEL updates. (CentOS 5.2 should be out in two weeks)
- And most important how about further
reporting bugs to bugzilla (e.g now i have an issue with expat in rhel5 i am lazy to report that it missbehave from one update to another, i even cannot properly test it on my fedora desk, i doubt that CentOS is so in sync with RHEL.
Issues w/ CentOS should be reported to CentOS. Issues w/ EPEL should be reported to redhat.
And my list can continue ....
In my opinion its not the same, in fact if i will get bug report i am not quite sure in some circumstances i will be able reproduce it on CentOS, it even sounds strange if i Re: to that bz# that "on my CentOS it works and compile fine" ...
Let me put this way, we (as in my team) develop on CentOS and deploy on RHEL. (Mostly because CentOS is a far better desktop OS compared to RHEL Server) Thus far, we've only encountered a single CentOS specific bug.
Well than i can renounce and be happy with Fedora.
I thinked to buy one, but since i am happy with fedora just for this task i would like to spend money, i will end up working on something wich i am not paid at all and on top of top issues i pay for anual subscriptions :D
Best Regards, Cristian.
- Gilboa
Spaces are the same.
CentOS needs ~2-3 days to rebuild and push RHEL updates. (CentOS 5.2 should be out in two weeks)
Issues w/ CentOS should be reported to CentOS. Issues w/ EPEL should be reported to redhat.
Let me put this way, we (as in my team) develop on CentOS and deploy on RHEL. (Mostly because CentOS is a far better desktop OS compared to RHEL Server) Thus far, we've only encountered a single CentOS specific bug.
Davara,
Thanks for your good briefing. Sounds enough for me to really consider it.
Probably I need to appologies for the noise and my un-trustfull views over CentOS.
Best Regards, Cristian.
On Sun, 2008-05-25 at 18:30 +0300, Balint Cristian wrote:
Spaces are the same.
CentOS needs ~2-3 days to rebuild and push RHEL updates. (CentOS 5.2 should be out in two weeks)
Issues w/ CentOS should be reported to CentOS. Issues w/ EPEL should be reported to redhat.
Let me put this way, we (as in my team) develop on CentOS and deploy on RHEL. (Mostly because CentOS is a far better desktop OS compared to RHEL Server) Thus far, we've only encountered a single CentOS specific bug.
Davara,
Thanks for your good briefing. Sounds enough for me to really consider it.
Probably I need to appologies for the noise and my un-trustfull views over CentOS.
Best Regards, Cristian.
No hard done.
- Gilboa
On Sun, 25 May 2008, Gilboa Davara wrote:
Issues w/ CentOS should be reported to CentOS. Issues w/ EPEL should be reported to redhat.
** NOT DIRECTED AT Gilboa **
This comment bugs me to my very core since RedHat has had so little to do with EPEL. I'm proud of this fact but it frustrates me not as a RH employee but as someone that was a Fedora volunteer before I was hired at RH. EPEL's steering comittee and much of the work that came to make it a reality and what it is today was done not by RH but by volunteers. EPEL is a team, they get support from Fedora, who gets support from RH sure. Even the RH employees that were and are involved do a lot of it in their free time. But EPEL is a team of people and even though it's young, i'ts a mature organization that can and does deal with its own issues.
-Mike
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Mike McGrath mmcgrath@redhat.com wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2008, Gilboa Davara wrote:
Issues w/ CentOS should be reported to CentOS. Issues w/ EPEL should be reported to redhat.
** NOT DIRECTED AT Gilboa **
This comment bugs me to my very core since RedHat has had so little to do with EPEL. I'm proud of this fact but it frustrates me not as a RH employee but as someone that was a Fedora volunteer before I was hired at RH. EPEL's steering comittee and much of the work that came to make it a
The big issue with the confusion is that Fedora's bugzilla is Red Hat's bugzilla. So if I want to push an EPEL bug I report to "redhat". If I want to report a fedora bug.. I report to "redhat". This is one area where Red Hat's brand squashes Fedora's brand in people's minds. Squashes it dead. People will equate EPEL == Red Hat for many reasons.. but that is the one that stands out in my mind the most. (next to epel-devel-list@redhat.com versus fedoraproject.org or some such thing).
reality and what it is today was done not by RH but by volunteers. EPEL is a team, they get support from Fedora, who gets support from RH sure. Even the RH employees that were and are involved do a lot of it in their free time. But EPEL is a team of people and even though it's young, i'ts a mature organization that can and does deal with its own issues.
-Mike
epel-devel-list mailing list epel-devel-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/epel-devel-list
On Sun, 25 May 2008, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 11:14 AM, Mike McGrath mmcgrath@redhat.com wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2008, Gilboa Davara wrote:
Issues w/ CentOS should be reported to CentOS. Issues w/ EPEL should be reported to redhat.
** NOT DIRECTED AT Gilboa **
This comment bugs me to my very core since RedHat has had so little to do with EPEL. I'm proud of this fact but it frustrates me not as a RH employee but as someone that was a Fedora volunteer before I was hired at RH. EPEL's steering comittee and much of the work that came to make it a
The big issue with the confusion is that Fedora's bugzilla is Red Hat's bugzilla. So if I want to push an EPEL bug I report to "redhat". If I want to report a fedora bug.. I report to "redhat". This is one area where Red Hat's brand squashes Fedora's brand in people's minds. Squashes it dead. People will equate EPEL == Red Hat for many reasons.. but that is the one that stands out in my mind the most. (next to epel-devel-list@redhat.com versus fedoraproject.org or some such thing).
/me forwards to the marketing team to see if they have any grand ideas.
-Mike
The big issue with the confusion is that Fedora's bugzilla is Red Hat's bugzilla. So if I want to push an EPEL bug I report to "redhat". If I want to report a fedora bug.. I report to "redhat". This is one area where Red Hat's brand squashes Fedora's brand in people's minds. Squashes it dead. People will equate EPEL == Red Hat for many reasons.. but that is the one that stands out in my mind the most. (next to epel-devel-list@redhat.com versus fedoraproject.org or some such thing).
Hmm ... moment, i might isnt EPEL ment to be an extension for RHEL ?! I mean quite realated and ment as an extension for commercial RHEL, or isnt it ?
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 10:19:15PM +0300, Balint Cristian wrote:
Hmm ... moment, i might isnt EPEL ment to be an extension for RHEL ?! I mean quite realated and ment as an extension for commercial RHEL, or isnt it ?
Or as an extension for Centos. Basically it is a rebuild of packages maintained in fedora on RHEL.
-- Pat
On 05/25/2008 10:19 PM, Balint Cristian wrote:
The big issue with the confusion is that Fedora's bugzilla is Red Hat's bugzilla. So if I want to push an EPEL bug I report to "redhat". If I want to report a fedora bug.. I report to "redhat". This is one area where Red Hat's brand squashes Fedora's brand in people's minds. Squashes it dead. People will equate EPEL == Red Hat for many reasons.. but that is the one that stands out in my mind the most. (next to epel-devel-list@redhat.com versus fedoraproject.org or some such thing).
Hmm ... moment, i might isnt EPEL ment to be an extension for RHEL ?! I mean quite realated and ment as an extension for commercial RHEL, or isnt it ?
EPEL contine pachete provenite din FEDORA si care functioneaza in RHEL. Iar 99% din maintaineri (inclusiv eu) testeaza folosind Centos.
wolfy (care e si un mic developer Centos, nu doar Fedora sponsor)
On 05/26/2008 01:47 AM, lonely wolf wrote:
On 05/25/2008 10:19 PM, Balint Cristian wrote:
The big issue with the confusion is that Fedora's bugzilla is Red Hat's bugzilla. So if I want to push an EPEL bug I report to "redhat". If I want to report a fedora bug.. I report to "redhat". This is one area where Red Hat's brand squashes Fedora's brand in people's minds. Squashes it dead. People will equate EPEL == Red Hat for many reasons.. but that is the one that stands out in my mind the most. (next to epel-devel-list@redhat.com versus fedoraproject.org or some such thing).
Hmm ... moment, i might isnt EPEL ment to be an extension for RHEL ?! I mean quite realated and ment as an extension for commercial RHEL, or isnt it ?
EPEL contine pachete provenite din FEDORA si care functioneaza in RHEL. Iar 99% din maintaineri (inclusiv eu) testeaza folosind Centos.
wolfy (care e si un mic developer Centos, nu doar Fedora sponsor)
Sorry for the noise, it was meant for Cristi only , I forgot to change the recipient :(
Sorry for the noise, it was meant for Cristi only , I forgot to change the recipient :(
OK, sorted out.
See mock really has configured against CentOS, and works flowless, i am more than happy now. Olso i can use a xen box to test packages.
Ironicaly once i was @RH , i should really know this EPEL/CentOS thing before.
Thank you for the patience !
Cristian.
On Sun, 2008-05-25 at 12:14 -0500, Mike McGrath wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2008, Gilboa Davara wrote:
Issues w/ CentOS should be reported to CentOS. Issues w/ EPEL should be reported to redhat.
** NOT DIRECTED AT Gilboa **
This comment bugs me to my very core since RedHat has had so little to do with EPEL. I'm proud of this fact but it frustrates me not as a RH employee but as someone that was a Fedora volunteer before I was hired at RH. EPEL's steering comittee and much of the work that came to make it a reality and what it is today was done not by RH but by volunteers. EPEL is a team, they get support from Fedora, who gets support from RH sure. Even the RH employees that were and are involved do a lot of it in their free time. But EPEL is a team of people and even though it's young, i'ts a mature organization that can and does deal with its own issues.
-Mike
I know that the comment was not directed at me. But never the less, I fear that my comment was misunderstood.
By reporting EPEL bugs against RedHat I didn't mean to imply that RedHat is the master of EPEL - I just wanted to make sure that EPEL bugs don't end up in CentOS' bug pool. Nothing else.
Bad wording on my side, I guess.
- Gilboa
On Sun, May 25, 2008 at 05:56:13PM +0300, Balint Cristian wrote:
You should consider using CentOS. [1] It's 99.9% compatible with RHEL.
- How about stuff in .specs:
if %{dist?} == rhl5 , rhl4 ?!
It is right to use that on centos too. In fact the mock in epel uses centos mirrors for packages.
- How about updates, RHEL have a really
fancy update schema.
There are few differences between Centos and RHEL, the one which is visible is the difference between server and desktop which is not in centos. But the updates of RHEL are in Centos.
- And most important how about further
reporting bugs to bugzilla (e.g now i have an issue with expat in rhel5 i am lazy to report that it missbehave from one update to another, i even cannot properly test it on my fedora desk, i doubt that CentOS is so in sync with RHEL.
It should. I personally don't have a RHEL subscription and when I find a bug which I think is also in RHEL I fill it in the RHEL bugzilla.
Also to find files/provides and so on, metadata on rpmfind or the like for centos can be used.
-- Pat
It should. I personally don't have a RHEL subscription and when I find a bug which I think is also in RHEL I fill it in the RHEL bugzilla.
Also to find files/provides and so on, metadata on rpmfind or the like for centos can be used.
Pat,
Sounds really good.
Thanks sharing your experience, i am really convinced by your insights over the possible issues. I had a strong negative feeling over the issue when i posted this mail.
Best Regards, Cristian.
epel-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Balint Cristian -
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Manuel Wolfshant -
Mike McGrath -
Patrice Dumas -
Stephen John Smoogen