Greetings,
I recently became a co-maintainer for pystatgrab [1] and am a contributor to upstream [2]. I am a co-founder and co-maintainer of the meta-python [3] and meta-maker [4] layers for OpenEmbedded. I am also a contributor to IronPython [5] and RobotFramework [6].
In my professional life, I work for the Intel Open Technology Center on the Yocto Project, which depends heavily on Python for its tools and infrastructure.
[1] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/rpms/pystatgrab/ [2] https://github.com/i-scream/pystatgrab/graphs/contributors [3] https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-python/ [4] https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-maker/ [5] https://github.com/orgs/IronLanguages/people [6] https://github.com/robotframework/robotframework/graphs/contributors
Ping.
On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 6:56 AM, Tim Orling ticotimo@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings,
I recently became a co-maintainer for pystatgrab [1] and am a contributor to upstream [2]. I am a co-founder and co-maintainer of the meta-python [3] and meta-maker [4] layers for OpenEmbedded. I am also a contributor to IronPython [5] and RobotFramework [6].
In my professional life, I work for the Intel Open Technology Center on the Yocto Project, which depends heavily on Python for its tools and infrastructure.
[1] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/rpms/pystatgrab/ [2] https://github.com/i-scream/pystatgrab/graphs/contributors [3] https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-python/ [4] https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-maker/ [5] https://github.com/orgs/IronLanguages/people [6] https://github.com/robotframework/robotframework/graphs/contributors
Ping. Again.
On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Tim Orling ticotimo@gmail.com wrote:
Ping.
On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 6:56 AM, Tim Orling ticotimo@gmail.com wrote:
Greetings,
I recently became a co-maintainer for pystatgrab [1] and am a contributor to upstream [2]. I am a co-founder and co-maintainer of the meta-python [3] and meta-maker [4] layers for OpenEmbedded. I am also a contributor to IronPython [5] and RobotFramework [6].
In my professional life, I work for the Intel Open Technology Center on the Yocto Project, which depends heavily on Python for its tools and infrastructure.
[1] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/rpms/pystatgrab/ [2] https://github.com/i-scream/pystatgrab/graphs/contributors [3] https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-python/ [4] https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-maker/ [5] https://github.com/orgs/IronLanguages/people [6] https://github.com/robotframework/robotframework/graphs/contributors
Hello Tim! Welcome to python-devel, and sorry for us being so quiet.
Is there anything in particular you're pinging about?
If want to access the python-sig FAS group, note that an introduction here is just a part of the process [0]. However, that list is mostly used to get notifications about bugs in various Python packages (so it might not be for you), and it gets security-related information (so not everyone who applies is accepted, but I don't know the details there). For general discussions there is this list, so you can already participate.
[0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Python#Python_SIG_FAS_group
On 07/11/2016 10:41 PM, Tim Orling wrote:
Ping. Again.
On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Tim Orling <ticotimo@gmail.com mailto:ticotimo@gmail.com> wrote:
Ping. On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 6:56 AM, Tim Orling <ticotimo@gmail.com <mailto:ticotimo@gmail.com>> wrote: Greetings, I recently became a co-maintainer for pystatgrab [1] and am a contributor to upstream [2]. I am a co-founder and co-maintainer of the meta-python [3] and meta-maker [4] layers for OpenEmbedded. I am also a contributor to IronPython [5] and RobotFramework [6]. In my professional life, I work for the Intel Open Technology Center on the Yocto Project, which depends heavily on Python for its tools and infrastructure. [1] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/rpms/pystatgrab/ [2] https://github.com/i-scream/pystatgrab/graphs/contributors [3] https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-python/ [4] https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-maker/ [5] https://github.com/orgs/IronLanguages/people [6] https://github.com/robotframework/robotframework/graphs/contributors
Hi Petr,
It is precisely the security information that I am seeking access to. My job depends on it.
I have already done everything in [0]. In some cases more than once. And we are talking over the period of many months. So let me ask this in return: what is the process once someone has done everything in [0]? The only place that I can have any dialog is this mailing list or #fedora-python. Application to the FAS group is a one time, one way thing. Application to the python-sig mailing list is a one way thing. A human on the other end must make some action to move the process forward.
Out of frustration, I emailed tomspur recently, as he is listed as the main contact for python-sig group in FAS. Other than a response from him, I have not heard anything else. I can understand that it is summer and people have holidays and it has not been that long yet.
But I must reiterate that this process has been going on for months from my side. Fedora already has a problem of perception of being too Red Hat insider in some circles. My observation has been that Red Hat employees have been gently reminded on #fedora-python that they need to apply to python-sig. I am assuming they have been successful. Meanwhile, I wait for action on the part of a member of python-sig.
That action could be as simple as, "we don't know you, could you please submit a python package for review so we can start to get to know you?". But that still requires action on the part of a member of python-sig.
I can tell you that the response from the perl-sig community was much more inviting.
Cheers.
--Tim (Intel Open Source Technology Center)
On Thu, Jul 14, 2016 at 4:44 AM, Petr Viktorin pviktori@redhat.com wrote:
Hello Tim! Welcome to python-devel, and sorry for us being so quiet.
Is there anything in particular you're pinging about?
If want to access the python-sig FAS group, note that an introduction here is just a part of the process [0]. However, that list is mostly used to get notifications about bugs in various Python packages (so it might not be for you), and it gets security-related information (so not everyone who applies is accepted, but I don't know the details there). For general discussions there is this list, so you can already participate.
[0] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/SIGs/Python#Python_SIG_FAS_group
On 07/11/2016 10:41 PM, Tim Orling wrote:
Ping. Again.
On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 9:32 PM, Tim Orling <ticotimo@gmail.com mailto:ticotimo@gmail.com> wrote:
Ping. On Fri, Apr 29, 2016 at 6:56 AM, Tim Orling <ticotimo@gmail.com <mailto:ticotimo@gmail.com>> wrote: Greetings, I recently became a co-maintainer for pystatgrab [1] and am a contributor to upstream [2]. I am a co-founder and co-maintainer of the meta-python [3] and meta-maker [4] layers for OpenEmbedded. I am also a contributor to IronPython [5] and RobotFramework [6]. In my professional life, I work for the Intel Open Technology Center on the Yocto Project, which depends heavily on Python for its tools and infrastructure. [1]https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/package/rpms/pystatgrab/ [2] https://github.com/i-scream/pystatgrab/graphs/contributors [3] https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-python/ [4] https://layers.openembedded.org/layerindex/branch/master/layer/meta-maker/ [5] https://github.com/orgs/IronLanguages/people [6] https://github.com/robotframework/robotframework/graphs/contributors
-- Petr Viktorin
On 14/07/16 16:20, Tim Orling wrote:
Hi Petr,
It is precisely the security information that I am seeking access to. My job depends on it.
I have already done everything in [0]. In some cases more than once. And we are talking over the period of many months. So let me ask this in return: what is the process once someone has done everything in [0]? The only place that I can have any dialog is this mailing list or #fedora-python. Application to the FAS group is a one time, one way thing. Application to the python-sig mailing list is a one way thing. A human on the other end must make some action to move the process forward.
Out of frustration, I emailed tomspur recently, as he is listed as the main contact for python-sig group in FAS. Other than a response from him, I have not heard anything else. I can understand that it is summer and people have holidays and it has not been that long yet.
But I must reiterate that this process has been going on for months from my side. Fedora already has a problem of perception of being too Red Hat insider in some circles. My observation has been that Red Hat employees have been gently reminded on #fedora-python that they need to apply to python-sig. I am assuming they have been successful. Meanwhile, I wait for action on the part of a member of python-sig.
That action could be as simple as, "we don't know you, could you please submit a python package for review so we can start to get to know you?". But that still requires action on the part of a member of python-sig.
I can tell you that the response from the perl-sig community was much more inviting.
Tim,
sorry to hear, your experience was quite frustrating.
In my understanding, there's not much you get from being member of the SIG or the FAS group.
I'm not sure, if security information is actually shared here, I would expect no information being under embargo to be shared via this list. Especially, what kind of enforcement do we have, if some security sensitive information is being disclosed.
Your case could (or should) serve as an example, what can go wrong with the SIG and a onboarding process.
Ideally, we'd have a documented process and a tracker, where status of approvals being tracked. FAS only provides 3 state (nothing, unapproved, approved). Maybe it's useful to do a process comparable to becoming a sponsor or a mentor in fedora (open a ticket in trac, have an open discussion about each person, including a vote.)
Matthias
On 07/20/2016 09:01 AM, Matthias Runge wrote:
On 14/07/16 16:20, Tim Orling wrote:
Hi Petr,
It is precisely the security information that I am seeking access to. My job depends on it.
I have already done everything in [0]. In some cases more than once. And we are talking over the period of many months. So let me ask this in return: what is the process once someone has done everything in [0]? The only place that I can have any dialog is this mailing list or #fedora-python. Application to the FAS group is a one time, one way thing. Application to the python-sig mailing list is a one way thing. A human on the other end must make some action to move the process forward.
Out of frustration, I emailed tomspur recently, as he is listed as the main contact for python-sig group in FAS. Other than a response from him, I have not heard anything else. I can understand that it is summer and people have holidays and it has not been that long yet.
What was his response?
But I must reiterate that this process has been going on for months from my side. Fedora already has a problem of perception of being too Red Hat insider in some circles. My observation has been that Red Hat employees have been gently reminded on #fedora-python that they need to apply to python-sig. I am assuming they have been successful. Meanwhile, I wait for action on the part of a member of python-sig.
You're waiting for action of a *sponsor* of python-sig, which is a much smaller group: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/members/python-sig/*/sponsor
FWIW: - Thomas Spura (who approved me) is not a Red Hatter as far as I can tell. - I've been at Red Hat, working on Python software in Fedora, for more than three years before being nudged into applying to python-sig. I hope that the nudging was related to work I've done, not to who employed me.
That action could be as simple as, "we don't know you, could you please submit a python package for review so we can start to get to know you?". But that still requires action on the part of a member of python-sig.
I'm not a gatekeeper, and I don't know the exact process. But the wiki says: "If there is interest and shown familiarity with our guidelines and processes (which usually manifests in maintaining at least 5 to 10 Python packages) you can apply for having access to a broader group of packages that is commonly maintained. If you choose to apply for this, please discuss it with a sponsor of the python-sig. (You can find a list of those in FAS.) "
So, your mail to Thomas was exactly the thing you need to do.
The process should be made less private. On the other hand, porbably it's just expected that you're somewhat known in the community and have been in contact with one of the sponsors before.
I can tell you that the response from the perl-sig community was much more inviting.
Tim,
sorry to hear, your experience was quite frustrating.
In my understanding, there's not much you get from being member of the SIG or the FAS group.
I'm not sure, if security information is actually shared here, I would expect no information being under embargo to be shared via this list. Especially, what kind of enforcement do we have, if some security sensitive information is being disclosed.
My understanding is that the *only* reason the python-sig mailing list is not open is that security-related bugs might be discussed there. Otherwise we could just open it up for everyone and stop playing this frustrating gatekeeping game.
Your case could (or should) serve as an example, what can go wrong with the SIG and a onboarding process.
Ideally, we'd have a documented process and a tracker, where status of approvals being tracked. FAS only provides 3 state (nothing, unapproved, approved). Maybe it's useful to do a process comparable to becoming a sponsor or a mentor in fedora (open a ticket in trac, have an open discussion about each person, including a vote.)
Petr Viktorin pviktori@redhat.com schrieb am Fr., 29. Juli 2016 um 09:59 Uhr:
On 07/20/2016 09:01 AM, Matthias Runge wrote:
On 14/07/16 16:20, Tim Orling wrote:
Hi Petr,
It is precisely the security information that I am seeking access to. My job depends on it.
I have already done everything in [0]. In some cases more than once. And we are talking over the period of many months. So let me ask this in return: what is the process once someone has done everything in [0]? The only place that I can have any dialog is this mailing list or #fedora-python. Application to the FAS group is a one time, one way thing. Application to the python-sig mailing list is a one way thing. A human on the other end must make some action to move the process
forward.
Out of frustration, I emailed tomspur recently, as he is listed as the main contact for python-sig group in FAS. Other than a response from him, I have not heard anything else. I can understand that it is summer and people have holidays and it has not been that long yet.
What was his response?
My response was, that I'm quite busy recently and don't find enough time to work on Fedora in general. I would welcome a more active python community and have sponsored a few people, that I know, to the python-sig to get everything going. It would be great, if we can reive the python-sig and more sponsors will look for new contributors. My initial goal for "please write a short introduction of yourself to the python-devel list" was exactly that: Getting to know each other and kicking off a discussion. I can only sponsor people, who I know and rely on other sponsors to do the same...
But I must reiterate that this process has been going on for months from my side. Fedora already has a problem of perception of being too Red Hat insider in some circles. My observation has been that Red Hat employees have been gently reminded on #fedora-python that they need to apply to python-sig. I am assuming they have been successful. Meanwhile, I wait for action on the part of a member of python-sig.
You're waiting for action of a *sponsor* of python-sig, which is a much smaller group: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/members/python-sig/*/sponsor
FWIW:
- Thomas Spura (who approved me) is not a Red Hatter as far as I can tell.
- I've been at Red Hat, working on Python software in Fedora, for more
than three years before being nudged into applying to python-sig. I hope that the nudging was related to work I've done, not to who employed me.
I cannot speak for the nudging, but I approved you, as you are very active on github's fedora-python and I knew you from there.
That action could be as simple as, "we don't know you, could you please
submit a python package for review so we can start to get to know you?". But that still requires action on the part of a member of python-sig.
I'm not a gatekeeper, and I don't know the exact process. But the wiki says: "If there is interest and shown familiarity with our guidelines and processes (which usually manifests in maintaining at least 5 to 10 Python packages) you can apply for having access to a broader group of packages that is commonly maintained. If you choose to apply for this, please discuss it with a sponsor of the python-sig. (You can find a list of those in FAS.) "
This changed now quite recently and is hopefully more understanable. I had a discussion on #fedora-python with Charlalampos Stratakis and Miro Hroncok and we try to be more active and try to revive the python-sig.
So, your mail to Thomas was exactly the thing you need to do.
The process should be made less private. On the other hand, porbably it's just expected that you're somewhat known in the community and have been in contact with one of the sponsors before.
Maybe the wiki page was misleading before. But you can only sponsor someone who you know and trust. If you are actively maintaining python packages, getting to know a sponsor should be doable.
I can tell you that the response from the perl-sig community was much more inviting.
Tim,
sorry to hear, your experience was quite frustrating.
In my understanding, there's not much you get from being member of the SIG or the FAS group.
I'm not sure, if security information is actually shared here, I would expect no information being under embargo to be shared via this list. Especially, what kind of enforcement do we have, if some security sensitive information is being disclosed.
My understanding is that the *only* reason the python-sig mailing list is not open is that security-related bugs might be discussed there. Otherwise we could just open it up for everyone and stop playing this frustrating gatekeeping game.
Yes, that was the reason, for not forwarding all changes to the python-devel list and creating a new one with all commits/bugs (including security-related ones). All discussion still takes place on this list.
I'm sorry that your experience was not a good one so far and we hope that this process will improve in the coming weeks...
All the best, Thomas
Your case could (or should) serve as an example, what can go wrong with the SIG and a onboarding process.
Ideally, we'd have a documented process and a tracker, where status of approvals being tracked. FAS only provides 3 state (nothing, unapproved, approved). Maybe it's useful to do a process comparable to becoming a sponsor or a mentor in fedora (open a ticket in trac, have an open discussion about each person, including a vote.)
--
Petr Viktorin _______________________________________________ python-devel mailing list python-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/python-devel@lists.fedoraproject...
Please realize that I first clicked on the python-sig request in FAS nearly a year ago as I remember it. I applied for the python-sig mailing list a bit later. When I finally noticed on IRC that I had missed something in the process, I read the wiki and realized I needed to post a Self-Introduction, which I did in April. So I did not do things in the right order, but the time scale here is getting quite silly, no?
On Fri, Jul 29, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Thomas Spura tomspur@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Petr Viktorin pviktori@redhat.com schrieb am Fr., 29. Juli 2016 um 09:59 Uhr:
On 07/20/2016 09:01 AM, Matthias Runge wrote:
On 14/07/16 16:20, Tim Orling wrote:
Hi Petr,
It is precisely the security information that I am seeking access to.
My
job depends on it.
I have already done everything in [0]. In some cases more than once.
And
we are talking over the period of many months. So let me ask this in return: what is the process once someone has done everything in [0]?
The
only place that I can have any dialog is this mailing list or #fedora-python. Application to the FAS group is a one time, one way thing. Application to the python-sig mailing list is a one way thing. A human on the other end must make some action to move the process
forward.
Out of frustration, I emailed tomspur recently, as he is listed as the main contact for python-sig group in FAS. Other than a response from him, I have not heard anything else. I can understand that it is summer and people have holidays and it has not been that long yet.
What was his response?
My response was, that I'm quite busy recently and don't find enough time to work on Fedora in general. I would welcome a more active python community and have sponsored a few people, that I know, to the python-sig to get everything going. It would be great, if we can reive the python-sig and more sponsors will look for new contributors. My initial goal for "please write a short introduction of yourself to the python-devel list" was exactly that: Getting to know each other and kicking off a discussion. I can only sponsor people, who I know and rely on other sponsors to do the same...
And so there has to be a way to get to know new people or the whole thing is not maintainable. I am just trying to figure out what that "way" is, giiven my current situation.
But I must reiterate that this process has been going on for months from
my side. Fedora already has a problem of perception of being too Red
Hat
insider in some circles. My observation has been that Red Hat employees have been gently reminded on #fedora-python that they need to apply to python-sig. I am assuming they have been successful. Meanwhile, I wait for action on the part of a member of python-sig.
You're waiting for action of a *sponsor* of python-sig, which is a much smaller group:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/accounts/group/members/python-sig/*/sponsor
FWIW:
- Thomas Spura (who approved me) is not a Red Hatter as far as I can tell.
- I've been at Red Hat, working on Python software in Fedora, for more
than three years before being nudged into applying to python-sig. I hope that the nudging was related to work I've done, not to who employed me.
I cannot speak for the nudging, but I approved you, as you are very active on github's fedora-python and I knew you from there.
That action could be as simple as, "we don't know you, could you please
submit a python package for review so we can start to get to know
you?".
But that still requires action on the part of a member of python-sig.
I'm not a gatekeeper, and I don't know the exact process. But the wiki says: "If there is interest and shown familiarity with our guidelines and processes (which usually manifests in maintaining at least 5 to 10 Python packages) you can apply for having access to a broader group of packages that is commonly maintained. If you choose to apply for this, please discuss it with a sponsor of the python-sig. (You can find a list of those in FAS.) "
This changed now quite recently and is hopefully more understanable. I had a discussion on #fedora-python with Charlalampos Stratakis and Miro Hroncok and we try to be more active and try to revive the python-sig.
So, your mail to Thomas was exactly the thing you need to do.
The process should be made less private. On the other hand, porbably it's just expected that you're somewhat known in the community and have been in contact with one of the sponsors before.
Maybe the wiki page was misleading before. But you can only sponsor someone who you know and trust. If you are actively maintaining python packages, getting to know a sponsor should be doable.
When I started this process, the information on the wiki was quite different, as Thomas mentioned.
https://fedoraproject.org/w/index.php?title=SIGs/Python&diff=465844&...
I'm sorry that your experience was not a good one so far and we hope that this process will improve in the coming weeks...
All the best, Thomas
At this point, I am trying to keep an open mind and not just feel burned by the python-sig community. I am maintaining the only package I care about that became orphaned. I will continue to do so. I don't have a current need for packages not supported already by Fedora. So now I am stuck with your group's desire for me to be a maintainer of 5 to 10 packages. Since I don't have new packages I want to add, I would need to request to become a co-maintainer of existing packages. Then the current maintainers might likely say, we don't know you so no. I am still stuck in limbo. Or at least that is how it seems right now.
I want to help the community. Why else would I be working on Fedora? My entire career is open source now. Every day. All day. I think I made a fairly good argument in my Self-Introduction about my background and my contributions outside of Fedora for python in particular. I am here offering to help Fedora as well.
Now it is time to figure out what the path forward is. Reality may simply be that I get too busy with other things and the bad experience turns me off to wanting to help python-sig. At least my speaking up is causing new discussion in the group and I am thankful for that.
But I will note that no one has suggested an actual path forward yet in my own case. No one actually said anything--at al--until I pinged Thomas directly. I am glad to hear Thomas say that changes are in the works so that others may have a better experience.
Cheers.
--Tim (Intel Open Source Technology Center) FAS: ttorling (perl-sig, modularity-wg)
Your case could (or should) serve as an example, what can go wrong with
the SIG and a onboarding process.
Ideally, we'd have a documented process and a tracker, where status of approvals being tracked. FAS only provides 3 state (nothing, unapproved, approved). Maybe it's useful to do a process comparable to becoming a sponsor or a mentor in fedora (open a ticket in trac, have an open discussion about each person, including a vote.)
--
Petr Viktorin _______________________________________________ python-devel mailing list python-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/python-devel@lists.fedoraproject...
Tim, let me step in as a new sponsor for Python SIG FAS group.
First of all, let me try to explain what this FAS group is and what it isn't:
The python-sig FAS group is a group of Fedora packagers with permission to commit to all packages where the group was added s a co-maintainer. Today, that's 38 packages [1], not big number, but still big responsibility. Also, this number will increase in the future, hopefully. Only trusted packagers can be part of that group. Hence the 5 packages criteria mentioned on the wiki, so non-packagers or people with one package won't apply.
The python-sig FAS group is not a group of Fedorians who like Python. For that purpose, one can be part of the informal SIG, i.e. join the mailing list (python-devel), hang out on IRC (#fedora-python), add their name to the wiki page. Everybody is welcome to do that. If such person happens to be or become a packager and becomes known and trusted, (s)he might end up in the FAS group as well, later.
The python-sig mailing list is not a secret place we don't want anybody to let in. It's a technical way to distribute e-mail from Fedora systems to all members of python-sig FAS group. Such e-mail include e-mail from bugzilla. As those might contian sensite information, the mailing list is private.
If you want to be on the list just because of the list itself, it is not going to happen (for anybody). If you want to join the FAS group, talk to me or other sponsors and make me/them believe you are the right person for the job. I don't know you, so I won't sponsor you. This might change when I become to know you trough you extensive work on Python packages in Fedora and/or EPEL.
You mentioned that you need to be on the list because your work depends on access to security information. Since your activity in Fedora is maintaining a single package, none of the current sponsors feel confident to trust you with that information.
But if you want to talk (perhaps privately) more about what you need and why, maybe we can come up with a better way than the FAS group to share security updates with you (or Intel).
[1] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packager/group::python-sig/
Hi all.
Somehow, between a week of vacation with my Dad and reading Miro's email for the third or fourth time I have come to an epiphany...
Let us clean the slate and start over. Light some cedar and sandalwood incense. Assume the lotus pose and clang your finger symbols. Breathe deep. Think good thoughts. Life is good.
---
Hi. I'm Tim, although I prefer to be known as "Timo (Teem-OH)". I've been using Fedora since before it was called Fedora Core. I care a lot about __quality__ python packaging in Fedora, in part because my job depends on it working flawlessly, but also because I just think python is an awesome language. I evangelize about it to anybody that will listen. I am responsible for Fedora working flawlessly for my global team and our larger community (in which many many people prefer to use Fedora). This can be "fun" when new Fedora releases come out. gcc-6 by default for example. It usually takes a week or two of somebody's time (now mine) to get it all working ok again. All of our build tools are based on python. We recently finished our migration to python3 which makes me very happy.
I have a couple python projects I'd like to contribute to Fedora. The two that come to mind are rethinkdb and robotframework (which will be many sub-packages as well). Maybe I'll come up with more. I am an active member of the IronPython community and perhaps that means I can help with mono support in Fedora. In particular, I want to drive IronPython to be python3 ready. I need to learn how to become an __expert__ python packager for Fedora. I also want to help with the inevitable fires that come up. I read the mailing list daily (hourly?) and get all the notifications about python packages in Fedora. I guess I don't know where to start helping effectively.
I'm hoping to work with the members of python-sig to learn the ropes and join the team. I am not just curious, I am determined. Driven even. I would like to take that energy and apply it to python-sig. I look forward to getting to know you all and working for a long time with you.
Cheers.
--Tim
P.S. I'm not sure who this email will actually reach, so please forward to the right list if you have permissions. I'm not going to clutter python-dev with it anymore. No more negative energy. Life is good.
On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 6:49 AM, Miro Hrončok mhroncok@redhat.com wrote:
Tim, let me step in as a new sponsor for Python SIG FAS group.
First of all, let me try to explain what this FAS group is and what it isn't:
The python-sig FAS group is a group of Fedora packagers with permission to commit to all packages where the group was added s a co-maintainer. Today, that's 38 packages [1], not big number, but still big responsibility. Also, this number will increase in the future, hopefully. Only trusted packagers can be part of that group. Hence the 5 packages criteria mentioned on the wiki, so non-packagers or people with one package won't apply.
The python-sig FAS group is not a group of Fedorians who like Python. For that purpose, one can be part of the informal SIG, i.e. join the mailing list (python-devel), hang out on IRC (#fedora-python), add their name to the wiki page. Everybody is welcome to do that. If such person happens to be or become a packager and becomes known and trusted, (s)he might end up in the FAS group as well, later.
The python-sig mailing list is not a secret place we don't want anybody to let in. It's a technical way to distribute e-mail from Fedora systems to all members of python-sig FAS group. Such e-mail include e-mail from bugzilla. As those might contian sensite information, the mailing list is private.
If you want to be on the list just because of the list itself, it is not going to happen (for anybody). If you want to join the FAS group, talk to me or other sponsors and make me/them believe you are the right person for the job. I don't know you, so I won't sponsor you. This might change when I become to know you trough you extensive work on Python packages in Fedora and/or EPEL.
You mentioned that you need to be on the list because your work depends on access to security information. Since your activity in Fedora is maintaining a single package, none of the current sponsors feel confident to trust you with that information.
But if you want to talk (perhaps privately) more about what you need and why, maybe we can come up with a better way than the FAS group to share security updates with you (or Intel).
[1] https://admin.fedoraproject.org/pkgdb/packager/group::python-sig/
Miro Hrončok
Phone: +420777974800 IRC: mhroncok
On 08/13/2016 05:26 AM, Tim Orling wrote:
Hi all.
Somehow, between a week of vacation with my Dad and reading Miro's email for the third or fourth time I have come to an epiphany...
Let us clean the slate and start over. Light some cedar and sandalwood incense. Assume the lotus pose and clang your finger symbols. Breathe deep. Think good thoughts. Life is good.
Hi. I'm Tim, although I prefer to be known as "Timo (Teem-OH)".
Hi Timo! Welcome!
Could you put your preferred name in your e-mail signature? At least that's where I look for proper spelling of people's names :)
I've been using Fedora since before it was called Fedora Core. I care a lot about __quality__ python packaging in Fedora, in part because my job depends on it working flawlessly, but also because I just think python is an awesome language. I evangelize about it to anybody that will listen. I am responsible for Fedora working flawlessly for my global team and our larger community (in which many many people prefer to use Fedora). This can be "fun" when new Fedora releases come out. gcc-6 by default for example. It usually takes a week or two of somebody's time (now mine) to get it all working ok again. All of our build tools are based on python. We recently finished our migration to python3 which makes me very happy.
Congratulations!
I have a couple python projects I'd like to contribute to Fedora. The two that come to mind are rethinkdb and robotframework (which will be many sub-packages as well). Maybe I'll come up with more.
What's the status of rethinkdb and robotframework? Can we help getting these in?
I am an active member of the IronPython community and perhaps that means I can help with mono support in Fedora.
That sounds interesting! I admit I don't know much about IronPython. Would you care elaborating a bit on your plans regarding IronPython in Fedora?
In particular, I want to drive IronPython to be python3 ready. I need to learn how to become an __expert__ python packager for Fedora. I also want to help with the inevitable fires that come up. I read the mailing list daily (hourly?) and get all the notifications about python packages in Fedora. I guess I don't know where to start helping effectively.
Helping effectively depends a lot on your area of interest. How do *you* want to make Fedora better? Packaging rethinkdb/robotframework seems like it would be a good start.
Then there are always things others would like help with in their quest to make Fedora better. For example, in the Python 3 effort, there's a tracking bug for cases where the packager doesn't have time to do the Python3 port. Some of the bugs there need expert skills, for some it's just that the packager doesn't have time: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1333765 If you'd just like to help others but don't know where to start, this list is a good place to ask.
As for the inevitable fires, unless it's an embargoed security issues there should be a public bug on Bugzilla, and usually a flurry of activity on this list or IRC. See the recent majorver-provides discussion for example.
I'm hoping to work with the members of python-sig to learn the ropes and join the team. I am not just curious, I am determined. Driven even. I would like to take that energy and apply it to python-sig. I look forward to getting to know you all and working for a long time with you.
Welcome to the Python SIG!
Cheers.
--Tim
P.S. I'm not sure who this email will actually reach, so please forward to the right list if you have permissions. I'm not going to clutter python-dev with it anymore. No more negative energy. Life is good.
Well, python-devel is the right list for this post. Sorry for the misunderstandings earlier.
On 15/08/16 16:06, Petr Viktorin wrote:
Then there are always things others would like help with in their quest to make Fedora better. For example, in the Python 3 effort, there's a tracking bug for cases where the packager doesn't have time to do the Python3 port. Some of the bugs there need expert skills, for some it's just that the packager doesn't have time: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1333765 If you'd just like to help others but don't know where to start, this list is a good place to ask.
Welcome Tim,
that bug contains a some links to spec files, which are in need of a patch. But that being said, there are quite a few spec files following some older recommendation and are now in need of modernization. Patches are welcome there as well, I'd assume.
If you're looking for other pointers, where to help, http://fedora.portingdb.xyz/ is another resource.
Best, Matthias
python-devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Matthias Runge -
Miro Hrončok -
Petr Viktorin -
Thomas Spura -
Tim Orling