ambassadors August 2008

ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org

129 participants
113 discussions

NA Ambassadors Meeting 2008-08-27 IRC Log
by inode0 27 Aug '08

27 Aug '08

(08:01:04 PM) ke4qqq: roll call (08:01:30 PM) ***inode0 is here (08:01:36 PM) ***LinuxKnight here (08:01:41 PM) ***lcafiero plays the role of Larry Cafiero (08:01:45 PM) ***DemonJester here (08:02:32 PM) ke4qqq: alright - well others will drift in (08:02:42 PM) ke4qqq: iWolf: here? (08:03:08 PM) ke4qqq: so no famsco update (08:03:10 PM) ke4qqq: next item (08:03:14 PM) ke4qqq: tasks (08:03:20 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: status of emails? (08:03:35 PM) inode0: all sent, no new replies (08:03:51 PM) themayor: yo yo (08:04:11 PM) inode0: guess I got about a 1 in 5 response (08:04:15 PM) ke4qqq: ok no new news on me either (08:04:29 PM) ke4qqq: clint is not here (08:04:38 PM) ke4qqq: so we'll skip his tasks (08:04:43 PM) ***iWolf wanders in late (08:04:44 PM) inode0: can you hear is now? (08:04:48 PM) inode0: us (08:04:51 PM) themayor: yeah (08:04:56 PM) themayor: what i was banned from the channel (08:05:01 PM) ke4qqq: ohhhhh iWolf update on famsco? (08:05:13 PM) ke4qqq: no, we entered left several time - almost like netsplit (08:05:19 PM) ke4qqq: s/we/you/ (08:05:24 PM) iWolf: ke4qqq: meeting canceled again, finally looks like we are getting our act together this week for a meeting tomorrow. (08:05:46 PM) themayor: ke4qqq: idk, console told me i was banned from seeing whats in chan (08:05:46 PM) iWolf: the budget is nearing finalization, the draft was posted to the ambassadors list and I haven't seen any major objections. (08:05:49 PM) themayor: but its all good now (08:06:02 PM) ke4qqq: cool. (08:06:02 PM) ***stickster logging but can't hang out tonight guys -- gotta pack for UTOSC (08:06:22 PM) stickster is now known as stickster_afk (08:06:24 PM) ke4qqq: to give people an idea of what's going on with media (08:06:53 PM) ke4qqq: we are hoping to pool Q3 NA money to get at least one run (of 3000) and possibly two for F10 (08:07:41 PM) inode0: there is an event box note too (08:07:51 PM) ke4qqq: ohhh yes (08:07:54 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: update us (08:08:23 PM) inode0: dell & hp have been contacted about contributing small notebooks for use in event boxes (08:08:34 PM) inode0: initial reaction from both seemed very positive (08:08:45 PM) inode0: but nothing definite yet (08:09:08 PM) inode0: OLPC is about to be contacted too (08:09:42 PM) ke4qqq: cool (08:09:47 PM) ke4qqq: anything else on that front? (08:09:54 PM) inode0: not from me (08:10:11 PM) dgilmore: inode0: if you need me to ill poke people at OLPC for you (08:10:13 PM) ke4qqq: ok herlo's missing so (08:10:18 PM) ke4qqq: dgilmore: please do (08:10:27 PM) ke4qqq: we want to attract OLPC contributors too (08:10:38 PM) inode0: thanks dgilmore - I'll go through normal channels first and see how that goes (08:10:42 PM) ke4qqq: iWolf: FAD? (08:11:24 PM) iWolf: ke4qqq: i did not get my blog post out, but i saw at least two of you did, and yours had good detail. I will get one out this upcoming week, just to keep the idea fresh in everyone's mind. (08:11:29 PM) ***CB6 is new to ambassadors (first meeting) (08:11:31 PM) vwbusguy: hello (08:11:33 PM) ke4qqq: cool (08:11:38 PM) inode0: welcome CB6 (08:11:40 PM) ke4qqq: which brings me to my task - (08:11:45 PM) ke4qqq: welcome CB6 (08:11:51 PM) iWolf: ke4qqq: we also need to get the start of an agenda as well, i can start that discussion on teh ambassador m-l. (08:11:52 PM) lcafiero: I still need to blog -- haven't blogged all week (08:11:59 PM) ke4qqq: cool (08:12:09 PM) ke4qqq: adds TASK: to iwolf (08:12:24 PM) ***iWolf accepts task (08:12:31 PM) ke4qqq: I was supposed to get people on the planet - and I have 50% of them up (08:12:41 PM) ke4qqq: lcafiero: and jtaber I failed to get done (08:13:18 PM) ke4qqq: but hopefully soon (08:13:38 PM) crossbytes: well this is my first meeting .. so just fill me in... was a little late (08:13:43 PM) ke4qqq: as a followup of the three who volunteered at least one got their blog post about FAD done. kudos to Brian Powell (08:13:56 PM) ke4qqq: crossbytes: welcome - we are going through the task list right now (08:14:01 PM) ke4qqq: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA (08:14:11 PM) ke4qqq: and we are following this agenda http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/Meetings/2008-08-27 (08:15:03 PM) ke4qqq: we've had a lot of editing on: (08:15:20 PM) ke4qqq: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NorthAmerica/Expectations (08:15:24 PM) lcafiero: +1 (08:15:35 PM) ke4qqq: any want to discuss must/should/coulds? (08:16:20 PM) inode0: needs more time to add/edit that - 1st week of school is hectic and I didn't get to it (08:16:46 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: will you lead a discussion on the mailing list and edit yourself? (08:17:35 PM) inode0: not sure what you are asking - I pretty much covered my thoughts on this last week (08:17:51 PM) ke4qqq: ok (08:17:59 PM) ke4qqq: you just need time ot edit? (08:18:19 PM) inode0: would like to see coulds/shoulds more abstract, with items under each abstraction enumerating examples (08:18:55 PM) inode0: I can post an example to the mailing list to see what you think (08:19:11 PM) ke4qqq: ahhh cool (08:19:12 PM) inode0: in a nutshell (08:19:27 PM) DemonJester: how about just combining the 2 categories since they all but mean the same anyways? (08:19:28 PM) inode0: one should would be "communicate with other about Fedora" (08:19:28 PM) ke4qqq: I just want to see if we can generate additional editing/discussion before we rip off the draft tag (08:19:44 PM) inode0: blogging, irc, talks, etc. would be examples (08:20:47 PM) inode0: I'll post something for discussion to the list (08:20:58 PM) ke4qqq: ok - we'll move on now - bring it up again next week and maybe strip the draft tag (08:21:33 PM) ke4qqq: looks like it's time for Education talk - themayor? (08:21:40 PM) themayor: yo yo (08:21:54 PM) themayor: okay so i sent my piece to the list last week (08:22:15 PM) themayor: and ive culled from the responses what people are discontent over (08:22:49 PM) themayor: and i guess first i would like for anyone here to bring up their points and then i can address them and then move on to my general reaction (08:23:28 PM) ke4qqq: I think our concern is two fold generally (speaking only for myself) (08:23:46 PM) ke4qqq: 1. unlike other areas people aren't welcome to jump into help with this. (08:23:59 PM) ke4qqq: which gives the impression of it not being open (08:24:08 PM) ke4qqq: and all manner of bad mojo follows (08:24:10 PM) ke4qqq: and 2. (08:24:15 PM) themayor: yup (08:24:39 PM) lcafiero: [dragging up my e-mail to list] (08:24:42 PM) ke4qqq: it appears some of the events are being "limited" (as opposed to targeted) to "elite" schools/students (08:25:11 PM) themayor: true (08:25:13 PM) themayor: is that all? (08:25:19 PM) DemonJester: Most would also like to know who the "we" is throughout your post. (08:25:42 PM) ke4qqq: themayor: it is all for me, others may have thoughts (08:25:53 PM) themayor: we is me and the other people at red hat, mainly, community architecture team and the new red hat academy folks (08:26:18 PM) DemonJester: clear enough, thank you. (08:26:20 PM) ke4qqq: who are the RH academy folks? (08:26:27 PM) inode0: I don't feel like repeating my response, I'll listen (08:27:15 PM) themayor: the head of the rh academy team is mark howson (08:27:27 PM) themayor: they are completely re-doing the program (08:27:53 PM) themayor: the details of which arent really relevant to this conversation except for the fact that they are trying to forge partnerships with schools as well (08:27:53 PM) inode0: that is good to hear (08:28:21 PM) lcafiero: "schools" are colleges, or high schools/middle schools as well? (08:28:28 PM) themayor: also part of that re-doing might be tangential to fedora stuff but its not clear yet (08:28:37 PM) themayor: colleges and elite high schools (08:28:43 PM) lcafiero: Ah. (08:28:52 PM) themayor: okay im gonna go ahead and address both your points (08:28:56 PM) themayor: first 1 (08:29:32 PM) themayor: the reason things are the way they are has no subversive or malicious or exclusionary pretext to it (08:30:15 PM) themayor: everything i am working on now is for better or worse meant to be a pilot and a yardstick to figure out the right way to involve these institutions (08:30:16 PM) ***quaid sighs at himself and is here (08:30:34 PM) themayor: both red hat and fedora have attempted things like this before and they have not worked (08:30:41 PM) themayor: granted on a smaller scalle (08:30:46 PM) themayor: and very unorganized (08:31:26 PM) themayor: the reason that i sort of have the reigns on this stuff is because someone needs to be held accountable, from both red hat and the community side of things, to see that the goals that are set out are accomplished (08:31:52 PM) themayor: those goals right now are put together a pilot program that we can at 6 months from inception measure success or failure (08:32:22 PM) themayor: help might be needed from people running ambassadors, simply because people have connections (08:33:07 PM) themayor: so lets say 6 months down the road we figure out some things and everything is going relatively well more or less, we can, and PLAN on begin involving ambassadors and the like (08:33:08 PM) lcafiero: (raising hand) (08:33:44 PM) themayor: the main point is, i was around from the beginning of ambassadors and we've learned from alot of the mistakes and i want to try and not repeat those (08:34:39 PM) themayor: just like ambassadors started with one person taking initiative and letting it grow, i think the education outreach should work the same way, and trying side step and to head off some of the growing pains down the road that we learned from ambassadors (08:34:42 PM) themayor: lcafiero: yes (08:35:55 PM) lcafiero: I'd like to ask a question once themayor is finished. (08:36:00 PM) ke4qqq: themayor: I don't think there is any objection to you leading the effort - I think the concern is that others aren't allowed to contribute to the pilot. (08:36:46 PM) themayor: ke4qqq: others can contribute so long as we stay within the goals (08:37:27 PM) themayor: it will be mighty hard to have 100 people chasing down 100 schools and trying to get things to work each by his own accord and have someone be accountable for all that at once (08:37:45 PM) ke4qqq: ok, perhaps the question is better phrased not that they aren't able to - but how do they contribute and help you? (08:38:32 PM) themayor: okay (08:38:43 PM) lcafiero: Coordination is good, and as I outlined on the list, we already have 1 (Curriculum) and 2 (Campus Reps) in place. (08:38:55 PM) quaid: themayor: could it be as simple as you keeping an active update and wiki page going? (08:39:00 PM) lcafiero: At the college at which I attend. (08:39:10 PM) quaid: that way people are watching out and heling with information and offers to step in for this and that. (08:39:25 PM) quaid: "Oh, you are talking with Exwhyzed U, I know the CTO there." that kind fo thing (08:39:55 PM) themayor: so once we get started with all this, once we have targeted objectives, and the complete list of institutions, we will no doubt have a task list that i will need help with (08:40:00 PM) themayor: and yes, there will be a wiki page (08:40:05 PM) lcafiero: +1 (08:40:06 PM) quaid: ... and you make it clear there, "Please don't go representing this effort without coordinating with Jack first, middle, and last." (08:40:38 PM) lcafiero: ? (08:40:47 PM) inode0: yeah (08:40:48 PM) ke4qqq: that's the other thing - I am hitting some colleges - one I am coordinating with quaid quite a bit on - how do I ensure I am not stepping on toes in my efforts? (08:41:15 PM) quaid: 'zactly! (08:41:24 PM) inode0: we just represent Fedora?! (08:41:33 PM) DemonJester: +1 (08:41:43 PM) themayor: for example, right now, if someone would want to get together with me later in the week or next week to start putting this stuff on the wiki, that would be appreciated (08:42:05 PM) quaid: inode0: if you are referring to what I said with represent, by "this effort" I mean the SIG (for lack of a better word) that Jack is leading. (08:42:15 PM) ke4qqq: right - but I am pitching that the class adopt some fedora documentation - they did OO.o docs last semester - thats a bit more than showing off Fedora (08:42:16 PM) themayor: ke4qqq: i dont know what your efforts are, so i cant say (08:42:38 PM) quaid: ke4qqq: good point ... we haven't told anyone else about that either :D (08:42:47 PM) ***ke4qqq is just as guilty (08:43:04 PM) quaid: I think there is obviously a lot of effort going on that is *not* at cross purposes (08:43:10 PM) quaid: and we just want to put it all on a page somewhere (08:43:14 PM) quaid: so it doesn't start crossing :) (08:43:45 PM) themayor: yes, i agree, our problem is just some fundamental miscommunication (08:43:46 PM) quaid: themayor: drop by #fedora-docs anytime and one of us will be glad to help; there are right ways and wrong ways to do wiki pages, would love to help get yours over that hump. (08:43:55 PM) ke4qqq: ok - themayor - I'll volunteer to help you with getting wikipage up (08:44:14 PM) ke4qqq: and I'll try and forward you the emails I have exchanged with quaid to get you up to speed. (08:44:23 PM) themayor: quaid: sure, ill make some time later this week on friday perhaps, tomorrow is pretty busy and thursday is a few meetings (08:45:35 PM) ke4qqq: ok any else have questions for themayor? (08:45:39 PM) themayor: ke4qqq: nod, thanks (08:45:50 PM) themayor: also, i just want to quickly re-address point #2 (08:45:54 PM) ke4qqq: sure (08:45:54 PM) lcafiero: Yes: On 3. Red Hat High (08:45:57 PM) ke4qqq: sorry (08:46:02 PM) lcafiero: (yielding to themayor ) (08:46:35 PM) themayor: okay so as far as what it seems, being exclusionary with regards to elite high schools (08:46:46 PM) themayor: again, its not exclusionary, we want to try it out with them, and then move on (08:47:03 PM) themayor: if you have some pretty brightly shining examples it will be easier for others to latch on (08:47:44 PM) themayor: i understand that people right now might have connections (08:47:57 PM) themayor: and i plan on taking full advantage of that in the months to come (08:48:21 PM) inode0: quaid: I am happy to work with Red Hat on its programs whether they intersect with Fedora or not. I still honestly see this as a Red Hat program and don't think we should stop interacting with academia waiting for it to unfold. (08:48:23 PM) themayor: but for right now, we just need to tip-toe carefully, lay a solid foundation and go up from there (08:48:24 PM) lcafiero: So you want to try it out with elite HS with the possibility/probability of expanding it (08:48:36 PM) ***lcafiero has connections with non-elite schools (08:48:40 PM) themayor: yes, the goal is to expand it (08:48:48 PM) lcafiero: thanks (08:48:53 PM) themayor: also the elite high schools work well right now because they buy us some awesome press (08:48:55 PM) ke4qqq: so the goal is to say $eliteschool doesn't why aren't you? (08:49:33 PM) themayor: well something like that, i mean we dont want to rub it in peoples face and make it seem condescending, but yeah, people are influenced by perception (08:49:51 PM) themayor: if it goes well and its in the press, rest assured other teachers will read it and say hey, i want in (08:50:15 PM) ke4qqq: interessant. (08:50:22 PM) themayor: and with education, the one lesson ive learned above all else, you need to play a little hard to get, unfortunately (08:50:33 PM) themayor: because teachers dont like being told what and how to teach (08:50:50 PM) themayor: so we need them to want to come to us (08:51:01 PM) themayor: and rightfully so, we dont want to tell them what or how to teach (08:51:32 PM) themayor: we just want to make the point that unless you are giving your students exposure to as much technology as possible, you are cheating them and giving them a sub-par education (08:51:52 PM) quaid: open source technology :D (08:52:02 PM) ke4qqq: ahhh that type of 'strategy' was what I was missing (08:52:20 PM) themayor: if you go to a school to try and sell them, you will 100% get spit on (08:52:28 PM) themayor: i know, ive been talking to them for a couple months npow (08:52:33 PM) ke4qqq: didn't realize the method to the 'madness'.......makes more sense now. (08:52:34 PM) inode0: that fits into the thinking of vocation education better than it does higher education in my experience (08:52:46 PM) ke4qqq: so how do you convince $eliteschool to start with you? (08:53:12 PM) themayor: well so what I've personally been doing is working on securing partnerships with hardware vendors (08:53:34 PM) ricky: Students are a more effective resources than most people might think. (08:53:35 PM) themayor: and telling these schools, listen money is tight, we understand, we are working with $vendor and might be able to secure you guys free hardware for a couple years (08:53:59 PM) themayor: that works for some universities too but not all (08:54:33 PM) themayor: on the university front, we will need campus ambassadors to be self-starters and identify the proper way to go about approaching each school (08:54:34 PM) ricky: Because that's what it comes down to at the end.. (08:54:43 PM) themayor: ricky: yup, exactly (08:54:52 PM) lcafiero: +1 (08:55:03 PM) ricky: What I said applies to high schools as much as it does colleges (08:55:35 PM) ricky: Also, students have access to parents, which is nice ;-) (08:55:38 PM) themayor: ricky: to a certain extent yes, but you are the exception not the rule (08:56:06 PM) inode0: there are more exceptions out there if we find them (08:56:07 PM) ricky: In elite high schools, there are some surprisingly amazing students. (08:56:18 PM) themayor: yes, thats why we are starting with elite high schools (08:56:28 PM) inode0: in non-elite high schools there are too (08:56:33 PM) themayor: inode0: well thats why we are trying a pilot to try and find them (08:56:59 PM) ricky: My generic example is TJ. The students there run the school's infrastructure. They should have the leadership and influence to help push stuff like this. (08:57:10 PM) inode0: themayor: serious question (08:57:14 PM) themayor: okay go (08:57:29 PM) themayor: ricky: one of the prime schools im working with is going to be TJ (08:57:33 PM) themayor: already spoke to them a few times (08:57:40 PM) themayor: and its great paul is right down the block from them (08:57:45 PM) ricky: That's wonderful to hera. (08:57:46 PM) ricky: **hear (08:57:56 PM) ***ricky admits being sooooo jealous of them. (08:57:56 PM) inode0: if I go to my local high school and engage students some of whom might join Fedora how can that interfere in any way with what you are doing? (08:58:03 PM) themayor: it doesnt (08:58:11 PM) themayor: not at all (08:58:13 PM) ricky: I may also have connections with previous TJ students at CMU. (08:58:36 PM) inode0: follow-up (08:58:58 PM) themayor: go (08:59:04 PM) inode0: if the NA ambassadors or all ambassadors embark in a concerted way to do the same? (08:59:25 PM) themayor: okay, so one or two people doesnt hurt (08:59:31 PM) themayor: but en masse, we are just promoting chaos (09:00:03 PM) ke4qqq: one or two people must mean miniscule chaos still (09:00:16 PM) themayor: controlled chaos is fine (09:00:23 PM) ke4qqq: but at the same time if I recruit 3 ianwellers, that's not bad - (09:00:25 PM) themayor: there will always be some element of the unknown (09:00:28 PM) inode0: how does promoting Fedora and recruiting new contributors equate to chaos? (09:00:33 PM) themayor: it doesnt (09:00:40 PM) themayor: inode0: we are talking at two different levels (09:00:46 PM) themayor: im talking about the institutional level (09:00:53 PM) themayor: and you are talking at the populace level (09:01:00 PM) themayor: which in fact, the two complement each other (09:01:15 PM) inode0: the institution being Fedora or an educational institution? (09:01:16 PM) themayor: im working top down and you are taking the bottom up approach (09:01:21 PM) themayor: educational (09:01:45 PM) themayor: im not against going out and talking to students at all (09:01:52 PM) themayor: i wouldnt stop anyone from doing that (09:01:55 PM) inode0: so I'm not following why a concerted effort by ambassadors would be a problem (09:02:31 PM) ricky: A concerted effort with the goal of getting students to contribute to Fedora probably wouldn't be, if I'm understanding what he's saying (09:02:40 PM) themayor: correct (09:02:46 PM) ricky: A concerted effort to talk to school administration to set stuff up might be (09:02:48 PM) themayor: raising awareness is never off limits (09:02:51 PM) themayor: thats what ambassadors do (09:02:53 PM) inode0: well he did just say it would be chaos :) (09:03:23 PM) themayor: i didnt mean it in that way exactly (09:03:30 PM) inode0: ok (09:04:09 PM) themayor: inode0: i guess to put it simply, i think that we are trying to achieve 100% all at once, and i think we need to take a more tempered and measured approach (09:04:23 PM) ke4qqq: we are at 63 minutes -anyone else with something for themayor or themayor for us? (09:04:59 PM) themayor: i dont have anything to add, but will put up some actions items that i'll be responsible for (09:05:11 PM) themayor: so the main thing being putting all this stuff up on wiki (09:05:36 PM) themayor: and clearly making the task list visible so that where there is room for volunteers people can help (09:05:48 PM) ke4qqq: outstanding, thanks for coming themayor (09:05:53 PM) ricky: Would it be a bad idea to put a list of institutions up as well? (09:06:02 PM) themayor: no thats included obviously (09:06:03 PM) ke4qqq: do they know they are bieng targeted? (09:06:08 PM) ricky: OK (09:06:12 PM) themayor: the ones that are i will put up (09:06:43 PM) ke4qqq: cool - lcafiero ready to push on with media? (09:07:00 PM) themayor: i need to leave in like 15 minutes (09:09:09 PM) ke4qqq: lcafiero: proceed (09:09:24 PM) lcafiero: If I may, I'd like to discuss item 5 (09:09:39 PM) ke4qqq: go ahead (09:10:07 PM) lcafiero: Thanks. I'm putting together a wiki about how to deal with the news media at http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/NA/Draft/NewsMedia_HowTo (09:10:23 PM) lcafiero: (note to quaid -- is that the right format for a draft?) (09:10:49 PM) lcafiero: As it is a draft, I just have an outline there now, but I will be filling it in and expect to have it done in the next two weeks. (09:11:02 PM) lcafiero: As a matter of background, I've been in journalism for the last 31 years. (09:11:16 PM) lcafiero: (not terribly proud of the profession lately, but that's another matter) (09:11:41 PM) lcafiero: And the wiki will be a resource for ambassadors to use to capitalize on media coverage for events around Fedora (09:11:50 PM) lcafiero: in their own areas. (09:12:12 PM) lcafiero: I hope to finish a first draft by next meeting. (09:12:36 PM) ke4qqq: sooooo - lcafiero is in the industry - so he is a a defacto subject matter expert.... (09:12:53 PM) lcafiero: question to ke4qqq -- where do you get the draft box on wikis to signify it's a draft (like on the expectations page) (09:13:14 PM) ke4qqq: I'll show you the code after the meeting (09:13:21 PM) lcafiero: Okay. (09:13:29 PM) inode0: this is really excellent (09:13:37 PM) ke4qqq: yeah it's very good (09:13:50 PM) ke4qqq: I am hoping lcafiero fleshes it out quite a bit (09:14:05 PM) lcafiero: Has anyone had any dealings with the media yet and would like to reflect them in the wiki, I'd like to discuss it (09:14:13 PM) inode0: might be of great interest to marketing too (09:14:16 PM) lcafiero: It will be expanded from the current outline (09:14:28 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: yep (09:14:44 PM) inode0: I suspect most of just don't have a clue about dealing with media so don't (09:14:44 PM) lcafiero: That's about all from me, unless anyone has questions. (09:14:53 PM) inode0: most of us (09:14:57 PM) themayor: i have experience with media (09:15:03 PM) lcafiero: Well, a lot of the "how to" books are pretty laughable when we in the profession read them. (09:15:24 PM) themayor: and i believe the general stance is we should get stuff cleared with someone before we do anything with media (09:15:36 PM) themayor: with certain exceptions (09:16:02 PM) lcafiero: What this wiki deals with is how to write press releases, when and when not to contact editors, etc. (09:16:07 PM) ke4qqq: thats been the exact opposite of what we have talked about with gdk and spevack (09:16:09 PM) lcafiero: Nuts and bolts stuff (09:16:21 PM) ke4qqq: they've been all for us charging forward (09:16:27 PM) ke4qqq: is there a policy somewhere on this (09:17:13 PM) ke4qqq: ? (09:17:27 PM) lcafiero: What to do and not to do on radio and television (09:17:34 PM) inode0: and who is the clearinghouse? (09:17:38 PM) lcafiero: question ke4qqq (09:17:42 PM) ke4qqq: yes (09:17:47 PM) lcafiero: okay, shoot (09:18:06 PM) ***inode0 thinks he already asked it (09:18:15 PM) ke4qqq: before we go stirring the hornets nest is there a policy on this: quaid? themayor? (09:18:52 PM) themayor: i dont know, thats been my personal policy (09:18:57 PM) inode0: what lcafiero is doing is fine - we need this information regardless (09:19:03 PM) ke4qqq: I agree - (09:19:10 PM) ke4qqq: but if there is a policy we wnat to reference it (09:19:24 PM) lcafiero: If I may: My understanding is that this is for events, e.g. F10 parties, where we might want to invite the press in local areas where parties/installfests are happening (09:20:10 PM) lcafiero: I do need to know if there's a policy around the release of that information, as far as Fedora is concerned. (09:20:12 PM) ke4qqq: well it's certainly for that, but possibly more (09:20:23 PM) themayor: i think thats okay (09:20:37 PM) lcafiero: However, to use Cabrillo College as an example, we would go ahead and make a release about it anyway from the LUG. (09:20:42 PM) themayor: but how about this, i will ask paul when he gets back online from utah and send something to f-a-l (09:21:00 PM) lcafiero: But I would hope that Fedora ambassadors who are putting in the effort could do the same (09:21:12 PM) lcafiero: +1 to themayor (09:21:14 PM) ***quaid caught up on the last 20 minutes (09:21:20 PM) inode0: sure, these details can be sorted out in time (09:21:27 PM) ke4qqq: yeah doesn't make sense that I can speak to a crowd of 500 but can't send out a press release to a local paper (09:21:56 PM) quaid: hmm (09:22:06 PM) quaid: why not let's set up a policy? (09:22:12 PM) lcafiero: And I hope themayor contributes to the wiki drawing from his experience. (09:22:16 PM) quaid: put together some ideas and float it to f-advisory-board? (09:22:20 PM) inode0: do we want a policy first? :) (09:22:27 PM) ke4qqq: works for me (09:22:31 PM) themayor: for sure (09:22:31 PM) lcafiero: +1 (09:22:35 PM) themayor: hey guys i need to run (09:22:41 PM) ke4qqq: thanks for coming Jack (09:22:42 PM) themayor: thanks for everything (09:22:43 PM) lcafiero: I can continue with the draft wiki (09:22:46 PM) lcafiero: thanks themayor (09:22:54 PM) ke4qqq: yes - don't stop the work on the draft (09:22:55 PM) quaid: to be clear, @redhat.com folks are sometimes restricted because of the crossover to material matters (things that talk about RHT products that might affect stock price, etc.) (09:23:08 PM) quaid: so we are extra careful when doing the press thing, and have a process for approving people to talk to the press. (09:23:09 PM) lcafiero: Understood (09:23:11 PM) ke4qqq: understandable (09:23:16 PM) quaid: obviously @fedoraproject.org is different (09:23:25 PM) quaid: also, traditional press folks sometimes get bent out of shape (09:23:27 PM) lcafiero: Again, this is just geared toward local events by ambassadors (09:23:39 PM) inode0: I just don't want to inject unnecessary policies - if there is a real need fine (09:23:41 PM) lcafiero: and I'd like to have some guidelines up before F10 (09:23:41 PM) quaid: when we release a community press release and they haven't heard about it from Red Hat (09:23:50 PM) quaid: so on big things we like to coordinate, and the fact (09:23:56 PM) quaid: that we do it all openly on lists and the wiki (09:24:03 PM) ke4qqq: "big things" will need to be defined. (09:24:12 PM) quaid: misses the traditional press, who are 'surprised' with the press release. (09:24:17 PM) ke4qqq: I'll start the discussion on the F-a-l and f-m-l (09:24:21 PM) quaid: ke4qqq: hence, the policy :) (09:24:22 PM) inode0: let's just ask for guidance (09:24:35 PM) lcafiero: agreed (09:24:39 PM) ***DemonJester agrees (09:24:42 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: would prefer we dictate what policy we want pushed upon us (09:24:49 PM) ke4qqq: :) (09:24:56 PM) inode0: so would I *if* we need a policy (09:24:59 PM) lcafiero: We should certainly suggest what we think policy should be (09:25:03 PM) quaid: ke4qqq: +1 on we define the policy :) (09:25:24 PM) inode0: my earlier impression was we drive the train (09:25:25 PM) quaid: inode0: here's the thing ... (09:25:35 PM) quaid: inode0: if someone is speaking as an individual, one is under no policy (09:25:38 PM) ke4qqq: so you say we drive the care with no traffic laws til someone complains? (09:25:49 PM) ***ke4qqq is afriad it would be draconian (09:25:54 PM) ke4qqq: when the boom is lowered (09:25:58 PM) quaid: inode0: but if one is speaking as @fedoraproject.org, don't you think we want them to have some idea of what they want to say and how to say it? (09:25:59 PM) ke4qqq: at least if a policy "exists" (09:26:12 PM) ke4qqq: they can't complain (09:26:33 PM) inode0: if I can personally represent Fedora in activities with say a local charity (which I was clearly told I could) I can't imagine any reason I can't publicize that too without signoff (09:26:55 PM) quaid: inode0: that doesn't preclude a policy (09:27:13 PM) inode0: maybe that *is* the policy (09:27:19 PM) ke4qqq: maybe (09:27:21 PM) quaid: the policy says, perhaps, "You do the right thing and publicize you see fit; represent the project well; on Big Things , coordinate with Marketing." (09:27:42 PM) ***ke4qqq plans on plagiarizing quaid (09:28:06 PM) ***quaid notes his IRC chat in this meeting is a Fedora contribution and already under the CLA (09:28:47 PM) lcafiero: Not to add fuel to this fire, but it works two ways -- Ambassadors could publicize "big things" handed down from Fedora to their local press, providing they point the press to the higher-ups. (09:28:50 PM) ke4qqq: doesn't mean I can claim it (09:28:53 PM) ke4qqq: as my own (09:28:54 PM) ke4qqq: lol (09:28:58 PM) lcafiero: Heh (09:29:23 PM) lcafiero: quaid: better put a creative commons license on that (09:30:04 PM) quaid: it's all under the OPL (09:30:10 PM) quaid: or at least will be when the IRC log is posted on the wiki. (09:30:21 PM) quaid: "A life unlogged is not a life worth living." (09:30:38 PM) DemonJester: lol (09:30:40 PM) ke4qqq: lol (09:30:41 PM) lcafiero: LOL. I will continue with wiki and we'll set a policy (09:30:50 PM) ke4qqq: anything else from media at this meeting? (09:30:59 PM) lcafiero: Not from me. Thanks, all (09:31:21 PM) ke4qqq: anyone have anything else? (09:31:38 PM) quaid: not I (09:31:41 PM) ***inode0 has a slightly unsatisfied feeling (09:31:53 PM) ke4qqq: inode0: speak your mine (09:31:54 PM) ke4qqq: mind (09:32:10 PM) lcafiero: Oh, wait: I'll be agendizing a project I'm involved in with the California universities, forming a coalition of LUGs. (09:32:16 PM) lcafiero: But that's for next week. (09:32:31 PM) lcafiero: go ahead inode0 (09:33:03 PM) inode0: yeah, I'm sure we'll revisit this education and perhaps should wait (09:33:30 PM) ke4qqq: ok - besides jack has left - and he should be present if we have something to air IMO (09:33:47 PM) ke4qqq: alright - if no one has anything else we'll close in 30seconds (09:33:48 PM) inode0: yes, I suppose (09:33:50 PM) lcafiero: How about on mailing list? (09:34:01 PM) ***lcafiero decides to shut up now (09:34:02 PM) ke4qqq: 20 (09:34:06 PM) inode0: there was no response to my post there (09:34:12 PM) inode0: or was there? (09:34:17 PM) ***ke4qqq doesn't know (09:34:19 PM) DemonJester: i didnt see one (09:34:27 PM) crossbytes: lol (09:34:27 PM) lcafiero: I echoed it in my response to jack (09:34:46 PM) inode0: ok, let's leave it (09:34:48 PM) ke4qqq: and we're adjourned (09:34:52 PM) lcafiero: see you all (09:34:57 PM) ke4qqq: feel free to continue discussing (09:35:01 PM) inode0: EOF for me please ke4qqq (09:35:12 PM) inode0: anything after that doesn't get posted (09:35:21 PM) ke4qqq: sounds good (09:35:30 PM) lcafiero: (waiting) (09:35:31 PM) ***inode0 does it (09:35:33 PM) inode0: EOF

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Fedora Meeting on IRC - Not able to connect
by Rishikesh Sharma 26 Aug '08

26 Aug '08

Hi All, I have a query, but dont know whether this is the right place to ask or not. I have a internet connection at home with proxy server at port 8080. Whenever i try to connect irc server, it never connects using my proxy server . My ip for proxy is 192.168.90.3:8080. Surfing is ok with my proxy. Due to this problem, i am not able to attend any fedora ambassadors meeting. Please help me with a solutions with my existing internet connection. Regards, Rishikesh Sharma FA, Imphal, Manipur.

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musings on education outreach
by inode0 26 Aug '08

26 Aug '08

Ok, here comes a rather not well thought out collection of ideas for ways that ambassadors can reach out to the academic world. It is a bit rushed since I wanted to get it out before the meeting this evening. I want to thank Máirín Duffy for kindly spending a lot of time sharing her thoughts on this subject, at least some of which are included below. Thanks to others too who have discussed this with me in the past, some of their ideas may be contained here as well. I think it is fair to say up front that this discussion really isn't a counteroffer of any sort to the plan outlined by Jack previously. That plan is designed around a set of goals that have merit and should be pursued in my opinion. Those goals are not entirely clear to me but surely overlap with some of the goals I have in mind. Let's think of this discussion as more one about what *other* stuff we might like to do. Goal #1: Awareness Before anyone can participate they need to be aware of the project. So we start with marketing. While activities like talks to the CS Club or to the school's LUG reach some students, they unfortunately miss the vast majority of people we need to reach to raise awareness of what Fedora has to offer. One key group I want to focus on are students from non-technical areas. We have ways to reach kids in Computer Science and Engineering programs. We need to reach out to kids in Design schools, in Business schools, in Marketing programs, and elsewhere. It is really easy for us to see how someone studying graphic design could find a niche in the Fedora project, it isn't easy for them to see that without our help. Lots of young people want to be involved, but they need others to help them get started. I'm open to all suggestions about how to effectively do this, I don't pretend to have the answer. One idea is to unleash a poster campaign directed at various need areas within the Fedora project for ambassadors to distribute to places where these students will see them. This sort of campaign has its limitations and would need to be carefully crafted so those whose eye we catch know where to go and what to do to have it be more than "oh, that looks cool" and on to the next poster. Perhaps we could give talks to the art club or to a marketing class? I'm afraid most of us aren't very well equipped to do that today but with some help from people currently working in those areas we could be trained a bit in the language and tools enough to give an effective pitch I think. While we are promoting Fedora and what it stands for we can think about doing that through some non-Fedora vehicles. Google's Summer of Code projects are something we could advertise and promote. Getting faculty member mentors, many already exist, also gives us a way to penetrate the consciousness of the faculty. Doing what we can to promote both mentoring by faculty/staff and facilitating the pairing of students with mentors might be another thing we could consider. Goal #2: Participation After awareness participation is key. It seems to me that the single biggest barrier here is being intimidated. Even within the college geek crowd this is a problem. I can't hack KDE so I'll use Fedora but not go any further. We need to get across to potential contributors the vast number of ways they can contribute without being an expert at writing code. Mentoring, Fedora mentoring, is critical to engaging new contributors in areas where they can feel useful quickly. Jon is working on this with the bug tracking folks, I'm sure others are also in other areas. For this community we should find some areas with fairly low technical barriers to new contributors. Bug triaging, documentation, marketing, art, and what else? The university I work at provides several opportunities for booths as well where technology is on display. Getting a small Fedora booth at these events would really be great. Ambassadors can chat with students and others who stop, find their areas of interest, show them sub-projects where those interests might fit into the Fedora project, and sign them up with accounts on the spot. While all of the above has a university focus we should definitely also spend time with high schools and even middle schools where there are opportunities to do so. We have unbelievable contributors currently in high school who mostly seem to find us by accident. While I can toss out some suggestions for things we might try with these schools I'd really like to hear from someone like Ian, if he wouldn't mind, about how he thinks that Fedora could be presented in high schools to engage more students. I realize that what I have written is far from a plan of action. It is more a stew of ideas. At some point a plan of action is necessary. For now I'm happy to throw more into the stew and see what we end up with for supper. John

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F10 Release Parties - Artwork Design Service request
by Francesco Ugolini 26 Aug '08

26 Aug '08

I just sent a request to Fedora Artwork, precious, Design Service for some flyers for F10 Release Parties (here you can find the request https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Artwork/DesignService). Best regards Francesco Ugolini

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REMINDER: NA Ambassadors meeting at 9pm EDT Tonight (Tuesday 26 August)
by David Nalley 26 Aug '08

26 Aug '08

Just an annoying reminder that the NA Ambassadors will be holding their monthly meeting in #fedora-meeting at 9pm EDT tonight.

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Materia sobre o CESoL (Diário de bordo)
by Lucas - Linux Sys. Admin (CEFETCE/UAB) 26 Aug '08

26 Aug '08

Galera, to preparando aqui um diário de bordo do evento agora a pouco terminado, CESoL.. gostaria que fosse feita uma análize do mesmo, grato, Lucas Dia 19 - Após a abertura do evento com a palestra do Marcelo D'elia Branco, demos inicio as nossas tarefas na tenda do projeto fedora brasil, que foi montada junto das tendas de jogos livres. Pessoas pediram para que fossem instados em seus pendrives o Fedora com Gnome, fizemos tudo via LiveUSB-Creator. Em virtude do curto período de tempo até o encerramento do primeiro dia do evento, nos limitamos a isto somente. Dia 20 Foi iniciado o curso do Guilherme (RazGriz) "O GIMP para mentes criativas", com alguns contra-tempos, Guilherme começa suas atividades com tranqüilidade, e consegue contornar uns problemas isolados que tivemos no evento. Já na nossa barraca tivemos um movimento bem maior do que o do dia 19, em vista de que estavamos distribuindo mídias (DVD X86 32Bits e LiveCD-Gnome), queimando ISO's de DVD X86 64Bits e instalando fedora em pendrives (louvado seja o liveusb-creator :D), bem como o Rodrigo Padula, estava com 2 XO's e 1 ClassMate para exposição e posteriormente iria utilizar em uma palestra. Dia 21 As atividades começaram mais cedo um pouco, pois tivemos que alem de continuar o install fest e o burn fest do projeto, ajuda a organização em relação ao streamming de video que teve-se durante o evento. Rodrigo Padula deu a sua palestra "Sugar/Fedora – Laptops Educacionais". Guilherme está bem confiante sobre o potencial de sua turma e acredita em um bom aproveitamento do curso. Eu, que tive problemas com rede sem-fio recebi da organização, um Access Point para a nossa tenda, o que facilitou o install-fest em notebooks, saldo total de notebooks e desktops instalados fedora: 12 Maquinas, inúmeras mídias e instalações em pendrives. Dia 22 Guilherme teve sua palestra submetida na grade, marcada para as 13:00 sobre o "Mini criativo", Padula teve sua palestra "Fedora - Potencialidades de um sistema GNU/Linux" ministrada, sem muitos contratempos tambem, estive presente na palestra do Padula, inclusive fiquei na mesa, para ajudar com o que fosse nescessário. Eu (Lucas), esqueci as mídias ja gravadas em casa, por isso passei o dia todo instalando Fedora em maquinas e Pendrives, os usuarios que traziam DVDs ou Cds, eu queimava as isos sem problemas. Dia 23 Por problemas de ordem maior, Rodrigo Padula nao se sentiu apto a ministra a palestra, deixando-me no encargo de fazer-la uma vez que o Guilherme, o outro embaixador, consequentemente mais experiente, estava ministrando mini-cursos. Para aliviar a tensão da minha primeira palestra, despensei o microfone, e solicitei que o publico se aproximasse mais do palco para que todos podessem me escutar sem o microfone, a palestra foi um sucesso, tivemos várias perguntas de como participar do projeto e como proceder quando detectado algum bug, etc.. Na metade do dia, as mídias acabaram-se, e tivemos que continuar somente queimando ISOs e instalando fedora em pendrives. Guilherme termina o mini-curso e aplica uma prova nos alunos para manter o nível de aprendizagem mais homogeneo. Gostaria de agradecer a organização do CESoL, por ter nos dado esta chance de espalhar o projeto pelo ceará e de nos ter financiado algumas despesas. Em especial ao nosso amigo Roberto Parente que foi muito atencioso com os convidados, tornando assim a nossa estadia no evento um total sucesso, vamos agora começar a organização para o próximo evento de SL, aonde será, como iremos, onde durmiremos, onde comeremos, etc. Com exeção de apenas alguns contra-tempos aqui ou ali, gostaria de salientar que o evento foi um completo sucesso ! Vocês das UFC estão de parabéns! -- -- Atenciosamente, Lucas do Amaral Saboya CEFET-CE - UAB-CE. Linux System Administrator Fedora Ambassador & Fedora Translator

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New ambassador from Mexico
by hagr182 26 Aug '08

26 Aug '08

Well first of all sorry for the "delayed" introduction, I was having some extra work from school due to some extra academic projects I embarked on. For those of you (Which I guess would be the vast majority) who don´t know me, I am Héctor González an IT student on Mexico, currently I am on my third semester out of ten, so Ive still got a lot to learn, but that doesnt mean I am a "noob (As you should have noticed now, I am also a Gamer) on IT matters, I know the basics to digital logic, C++, java, HTML and of course the basics on Fedora, I say basics because I´ve been using Fedora only for the past 2 years, mainly because I didnt knew any other OS besides Windows and Mac ( I´ve been using windows since I remember and Mac about 4 years ago when I began working). My goal is to be part of something big, something like Fedora or Microsoft and one day when I stablish my own bussines give support and encourage the use of the open source alternative (Which I began promoting as soon as I installed it on my laptop (R.I.P.)). So I hope to be useful and put all I can onto the project. Greetings. Hector G.R.

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new member from argentina
by adrianalves＠proyectofedora.org 26 Aug '08

26 Aug '08

Hey Guys, My name is Adrian Alves, I'm from argentina. i want to help in anything that i can with fedora, is a great project and way the way i want to became a developer i hope soon, we have a few ideas that we can do from here but we need some help, we are trying to create a team here for build and maintain rpms, and in september maybe october make a FEDORA DAY a conference full of fedora talks here in argentina. Regards, Adrian.-

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Fedora event in Sri Lanka
by Danishka Navin 26 Aug '08

26 Aug '08

Sorry for the late notice https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FedoraEvents/SriLanka/NIE I need the official fedora slides theme? -- Danishka Navin

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new user introducing himself
by Neville A. Cross 25 Aug '08

25 Aug '08

Hello, My name is Neville Cross, although it sound very British I am Nicaraguan. I live and work in Nicaragua, and I want to join the Fedora Ambassador work in this country. My studies are in business, so I am not good at programming. I am a Amateur Radio since 1993, and I am part of the packet radio enthusiast in Central America. I am following the work of the Fedora SIG for Amateur Radio. As a business person, I am contributing with a different perspective to the local FOSS community. I like to drive applications rather than only Linux approach. This has been a good turn to get new people involved, specially from non-technical backgrounds. One of my concerns regarding the local Linux community and Fedora is no exception y the lack of support. I am encouraging that the next install festival we provide local repositories for updating the installations. We will have our real test on the SFD2008, were I am involved. I have the plan to organize a monthly gathering to invite newcomers to bring their hardware and together solve their problems. I just created my fedora user wiki https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v Best regards Neville Linux User # 473217

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ambassadors August 2008