Hi

...

I think that the problem is that Use of the Fedora Logo needs to be 'authorised'. Of Course, people are allowed to sell `Fedora Core` for as much as they want (as long as they do not violate GPL).

No. We dont need to authorize each and every instance. We can setup guidelines just like we have the trademark guidelines and ask anyone who wants to redistribute Fedora CD's and use the logos to go through these guidelines and follow them. The current guidelines available http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Logo are *temporary*.

But how much money are we really going to get out of them?

We dont really need money from anyone who merely redistributes Fedora without any modifications as long as they follow the very reasonable guidelines put forward. We can request them to contribute to Fedora Foundation (remember its a non-profit and the amount can only used for Fedora) say a fixed percentage of sales returns in exchange for vendor listings and joint promotions perhaps but thats not absolutely necessary if they want to just do things on their own.

The T-shirts are just free publicity for Fedora. I dont think Novell is attacking all websites selling SUSE T-shirts, or Ubuntu or Mandriva or...

If it doesen't harm, then why be angry about it?

/Bjorn Andersen

On 12/26/05, Mauricio Pretto - LM² mauricio@lm2.com.br wrote:

They are not just selling cd's. They sell Tshirts, pens and other, usually this should only be selled by fedora . The guys from debian, only let autorized people sell stuff with debian logo, this is a way to rise founds.

The cd's i dont see any problem as we have the list of autorized vendors at: http://fedora.redhat.com/Download/vendors.html

Regards

Mauricio Pretto Consultor de TI 51 8145-9781

LM² Consulting(r) http://www.lm2.com.br Porto Alegre : 51 3018-1007 São Paulo : 11 4062-9956 Plantão 24hs : 51 8145-2002

Rahul Sundaram wrote:

...

Hi

...

...

I think that the problem is that Use of the Fedora Logo needs to be 'authorised'. Of Course, people are allowed to sell `Fedora Core` for as much as they want (as long as they do not violate GPL).

No. We dont need to authorize each and every instance. We can setup guidelines just like we have the trademark guidelines and ask anyone who wants to redistribute Fedora CD's and use the logos to go through these guidelines and follow them. The current guidelines available http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Logo are *temporary*.

...

But how much money are we really going to get out of them?

We dont really need money from anyone who merely redistributes Fedora without any modifications as long as they follow the very reasonable guidelines put forward. We can request them to contribute to Fedora Foundation (remember its a non-profit and the amount can only used for Fedora) say a fixed percentage of sales returns in exchange for vendor listings and joint promotions perhaps but thats not absolutely necessary if they want to just do things on their own.

-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list

-- Med Venlig Hilsen / Best regards / Mit freundlichen Grüßen Bjørn Andersen http://www.linuxin.dk E-mail: linuxin@gmail.com

This is an awkward position to be in, we may appear to be mean and pushy, picking on little people.

So, the keys seem to be:

1. Have clear usage guidelines.
2. Gently enforce those guidelines.
3. Keep everyone looking for, and reporting, violations.

Most people *want* to use the Fedora trademarks in a legal and acceptable manner. Our job as Ambassadors is to help them do so.

I also think that's a very important point Karsten.

Perhaps one way that we might avoid looking like the bad guys is to take the tack that someone who does not have permission to use the trademark is not "in violation", they are simply "in omission". They've forgotten to apply for permission because it slipped their mind or because we didn't make it sufficiently clear how to do so.

If we make it easy for people who have omitted to apply to do so, by gently reminding them, and explaining why such a process is necessary, most people will comply. Those who don't will be the ones who are in violation.

There's nothing like being accused of violating something to get people on the defensive. Especially when they haven't done anything wrong and their motives are innocent.

regards, --josh

This thread gives me an opportunity to let everyone in on the long-term strategy for Fedora logo usage.

In the short term, I am the gate for Fedora logo requests. I've just returned from holiday, and I'll be authorizing logo usage requests myself later today. I'll also be noting the general patterns of WHY people are requesting usage, gathering instances of "typical cases."

Once I've got a good sample, I'll take these "typical cases" to counsel, and we'll build a clickthru usage policy. People will be able to read a set of very basic guidelines, agree to them, give us contact information, and then they will be granted logo images and permission automatically.

Should take no more than a couple of months.

--g

_____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan

On Mon, 26 Dec 2005, Rahul Sundaram wrote:

Hi

...

...

I think that the problem is that Use of the Fedora Logo needs to be 'authorised'. Of Course, people are allowed to sell `Fedora Core` for as much as they want (as long as they do not violate GPL).

No. We dont need to authorize each and every instance. We can setup guidelines just like we have the trademark guidelines and ask anyone who wants to redistribute Fedora CD's and use the logos to go through these guidelines and follow them. The current guidelines available http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Logo are *temporary*.

...

But how much money are we really going to get out of them?

We dont really need money from anyone who merely redistributes Fedora without any modifications as long as they follow the very reasonable guidelines put forward. We can request them to contribute to Fedora Foundation (remember its a non-profit and the amount can only used for Fedora) say a fixed percentage of sales returns in exchange for vendor listings and joint promotions perhaps but thats not absolutely necessary if they want to just do things on their own.

-- Rahul

Learn. Network. Experience open source. Red Hat Summit Nashville | May 30 - June 2, 2006 Learn more: http://www.redhat.com/promo/summit/

-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list

This is what i am talking about!

Mauricio Pretto Consultor de TI 51 8145-9781

LM² Consulting® http://www.lm2.com.br Porto Alegre : 51 3018-1007 São Paulo : 11 4062-9956 Plantão 24hs : 51 8145-2002

Patrick Barnes wrote:

Mauricio Pretto - LM² wrote:

...

Hi Guys, I dont know if this already has been discussed here, and if this is the right place to talk about this, but.....

There is a online shopping site here in Brazil called LinuxMall

(www.linuxmall.com.br) that sells Fedora stuff (t-shirts, pens, mugs and others), i dont know if they have autorization to do this, i guess they dont.

I think we can talk with them and make part of this money be

donnated to fedora project dont you think ?

 - http://www.linuxmall.com.br/index.php?category=canetas
- http://www.linuxmall.com.br/index.php?category=camisetas
- http://www.linuxmall.com.br/index.php?category=camisas

Regards

This is a violation of the Trademark Guidelines (http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal/TrademarkGuidelines). The Trademark Guidelines prevent this kind of commercial usage. Stock Fedora CDs are permitted, but selling other merchandise with the Fedora (or Red Hat) marks is not permitted. The reason that not just anyone can use the trademark is so that we have the opportunity to protect the Fedora name from abuse and keep Fedora from being misrepresented. If they would like to discuss using the trademark with us, we can probably work something out for them to continue selling merchandise, but they should not otherwise be permitted to continue. We have the opportunity to decide how the Fedora name and brand can be used, and we should take advantage of that opportunity to keep others from using the Fedora brand in a way that is against the spirit of Fedora. We do want people to be able to create and distribute Fedora merchandise, but we must be careful to avoid commercial exploitation that misrepresents or hurts Fedora.

---

-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list

On Tue, 27 Dec 2005, [ISO-8859-1] Bjørn Andersen wrote:

I understand that. And agree that the Red Hat logo is for Red Hat only. They diserv to make money out of it (i have 2), but as long as the Fedora brand is not mis-used, I cant see how it can hurt the Fedora project. And I cant see why Fedora project need to make money out of somebudy that are making free kommersials for Fedora.

I thnk that some Fedora ambassidors need to contact them, and ask why they did not ask for permission. And then (if they arent rude) add them to the reseller list.

Dont push for money. They is will just abandom the T-shirts and sell Ubuntu shirts instead.

The important thing here is to protect the trademark.

The *right way* to protect the trademark is a matter of some debate, I think.

I'll advise legal -- they need to understand the situation -- but I don't think a cease and desist letter is imminent.

--g

_____________________ ____________________________________________ Greg DeKoenigsberg ] [ the future masters of technology will have Community Relations ] [ to be lighthearted and intelligent. the Red Hat ] [ machine easily masters the grim and the ] [ dumb. --mcluhan