Hi All,
I've found interesting article written by some Fedora Fan.
--snip-- Guess why? Not quality video drivers leave the machine with only some default drivers and that is bad because some users would like to play games or start some eye-candy things like Compiz Fusion. This is negative effect to the community and some users of the Fedora community leave Fedora in interest to other distros that have that drivers. --snip--
I too agree with above snip from article to certain extent. I wonder what Fedora project is upto taking above thing in consideration.
--snip-- I am strong supporter of the ideals of the open source and really love Fedora. I notice some mismanagement and lack of cooperation between official and unofficial Fedora projects. Probably we all would benefit more if the official Fedora updates and the Livna updates were more synchronized. And update of the kernel does not leave the system without video drivers or other vital parts. In that case, more and more users will leave Fedora and migrate to other GNU/Linux distributions even if they are "evil" or have signed suspicious contracts with 3th party companies... --snip--
What you guys think about above snip from the Article??
Link to Article: http://spreadfedora.org/sf/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id...
Have Fun!
Nirmal Pathak wrote:
Hi All,
I've found interesting article written by some Fedora Fan.
--snip-- Guess why? Not quality video drivers leave the machine with only some default drivers and that is bad because some users would like to play games or start some eye-candy things like Compiz Fusion. This is negative effect to the community and some users of the Fedora community leave Fedora in interest to other distros that have that drivers. --snip--
I too agree with above snip from article to certain extent. I wonder what Fedora project is upto taking above thing in consideration.
--snip-- I am strong supporter of the ideals of the open source and really love Fedora. I notice some mismanagement and lack of cooperation between official and unofficial Fedora projects. Probably we all would benefit more if the official Fedora updates and the Livna updates were more synchronized. And update of the kernel does not leave the system without video drivers or other vital parts. In that case, more and more users will leave Fedora and migrate to other GNU/Linux distributions even if they are "evil" or have signed suspicious contracts with 3th party companies... --snip--
What you guys think about above snip from the Article??
Link to Article: http://spreadfedora.org/sf/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id... http://spreadfedora.org/sf/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=61&Itemid=54
maybe to stick with FOSS, Fedora do not need to include the proprietary driver or codec in Distribution but can work with this vendor, if they have linux driver for it, to create a third party yum repositary and allow EU to choose during install-time to include it. Just my feel......
Hello
The nvidia and ATI grahics drivers are freely available from their website .
So, why can't we add them to yum repository. If there is any roblem we can add them to a secondary non-free yum repository.
I have also faced some questions from fedora users in my locality that : why mp3 music and some video formats cannot be played out of the box ?
Thanks.
Shambo Bose
2008/9/29 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
Hello
The nvidia and ATI grahics drivers are freely available from their website . So, why can't we add them to yum repository. If there is any roblem we can add them to a secondary non-free yum repository.
I have also faced some questions from fedora users in my locality that : why mp3 music and some video formats cannot be played out of the box ?
Thanks.
Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Their drivers are freely available, yet they aren't open sourced, which is why they aren't included with Fedora.
As for MP3? Its because of a patent issue. The MP3 Codec *may* not be out of the box, but as soon as you play a file, you are prompted to download it from Codeina and a few minutes later, you're playing MP3s. (The downside is that this requires an internet connection).
Just my 2c.
hello
We can always create a secondary non free repository which will contain all the free drivers and packages[ which is not open source] and the mp3 part is ok... they are playing mp3 in that way.
Thanks.
Shambo Bose
2008/9/29 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
hello
We can always create a secondary non free repository which will contain all the free drivers and packages[ which is not open source] and the mp3 part is ok... they are playing mp3 in that way.
Thanks.
Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
"We can always create a secondary non free repository"
We already have one, its called Livna[1], they provide packages for both ATI and Nvidia cards that are packaged for Fedora, which would mean no conflicts with existing drivers. They are sometimes hours-to-days behind kernel updates (Specifically security kernel updates) which leaves users with dependency conflicts (Either update the kernel and lose the drivers, or stay insecure for some time)
Regards
2008/9/29 Juan M. Rodriguez nushio@gmail.com
2008/9/29 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
hello
We can always create a secondary non free repository which will contain all the free drivers and packages[ which is not open source] and the mp3 part is ok... they are playing mp3 in that way.
Thanks.
Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
"We can always create a secondary non free repository"
We already have one, its called Livna[1], they provide packages for both ATI and Nvidia cards that are packaged for Fedora, which would mean no conflicts with existing drivers. They are sometimes hours-to-days behind kernel updates (Specifically security kernel updates) which leaves users with dependency conflicts (Either update the kernel and lose the drivers, or stay insecure for some time)
Regards
Ing. Juan M. Rodriguez Moreno Desarrollador de Sistemas Abiertos Sitio: http://proyectofedora.org/mexico
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Hello
The livna graphics drivers does not support 3D hardware Acceleration . Is livna a official fedora repository?
regards, Shambo Bose
2008/9/29 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
2008/9/29 Juan M. Rodriguez nushio@gmail.com
2008/9/29 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
hello
We can always create a secondary non free repository which will contain all the free drivers and packages[ which is not open source] and the mp3 part is ok... they are playing mp3 in that way.
Thanks.
Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
"We can always create a secondary non free repository"
We already have one, its called Livna[1], they provide packages for both ATI and Nvidia cards that are packaged for Fedora, which would mean no conflicts with existing drivers. They are sometimes hours-to-days behind kernel updates (Specifically security kernel updates) which leaves users with dependency conflicts (Either update the kernel and lose the drivers, or stay insecure for some time)
Regards
Ing. Juan M. Rodriguez Moreno Desarrollador de Sistemas Abiertos Sitio: http://proyectofedora.org/mexico
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Hello
The livna graphics drivers does not support 3D hardware Acceleration . Is livna a official fedora repository?
regards, Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Livna is by no means an official Fedora repository, it is a third-party one.
I'm not aware of the 3D-acceleration support on the drivers..
Regards,
We must find a way to overcome this barrier as it might hurt the fedoraproject heavily in the future.
regards,
Shambo Bose
Shambo Bose wrote:
We must find a way to overcome this barrier as it might hurt the fedoraproject heavily in the future.
[i] which barrier [ii] what do you think can be done [iii] how does it hurt currently
Hi, I will answer your questions one by one .
[i] The problem faced by different fedora desktop users are different media format incompatibility , some of them cannot enable the the compiz effects due to lack of 3d accelerated video driver support . These are the basic features a Desktop user wants. [ii] Nothing can be done or rather nothing should be done as it might hurt the free spirit of Fedora.
[ iii] Basic desktop users are switching to pirated closed source software. And I think piracy not only hurts the proprietors of closed source software but also open source software projects as they get the pirated software for free.
Livna is not official fedora repository. You have to add it to the list of sources. I as a fedora user looked all over to find drivers that I just couldn't find through fedora to find on livna, but some drivers just are not created as of yet. I as a company reversed alot of drivers, and made drivers for hardware it is not easy companies like ATI, NVIDIA are not going to give source code up. Most drivers create for Linux are created by reverse engineering.
Leo Albert Jackson Jr Owner Head Programmer LJ's Electronics and Software
--- On Mon, 9/29/08, Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com wrote:
From: Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] The lack of quality video drivers is destroying Fedora. To: fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com Date: Monday, September 29, 2008, 2:12 PM 2008/9/29 Juan M. Rodriguez nushio@gmail.com
2008/9/29 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
hello
We can always create a secondary non free
repository which will contain
all the free drivers and packages[ which is not
open source]
and the mp3 part is ok... they are playing mp3 in
that way.
Thanks.
Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
"We can always create a secondary non free
repository"
We already have one, its called Livna[1], they provide
packages for both
ATI and Nvidia cards that are packaged for Fedora,
which would mean no
conflicts with existing drivers. They are sometimes
hours-to-days behind
kernel updates (Specifically security kernel updates)
which leaves users
with dependency conflicts (Either update the kernel
and lose the drivers, or
stay insecure for some time)
Regards
Ing. Juan M. Rodriguez Moreno Desarrollador de Sistemas Abiertos Sitio: http://proyectofedora.org/mexico
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Hello
The livna graphics drivers does not support 3D hardware Acceleration . Is livna a official fedora repository?
regards, Shambo Bose -- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
As far as I know, Livna policy is to only include open source software. It is a repo for patent-problematic, but yet open source software. So MPEG-4, MP3, AAC, H.264, Xvid, MPlayer etc stuff -- that all has open source implementations -- are available on Livna, and this is enough for playing virtually all multimedia content you can get.
Also, the nVidia and ATI drivers at Livna are the open source ones -- not the original, more feature rich, more powerful, 3D capable, binary ones. I believe there is also a license problem when you download the original binary drivers, repackage them and put them someplace else for downloading. They are not freely distributable, I think. So if you repackage these binary drivers you are violating their licence for distribution.
What I think Livna (or other repo) could do is what the JPackage project does for a long time: provide nosrc.rpm packages. These are only the source RPM without the license-problematic stuff. From the user perspective, he'll have to download the nosrc.rpm file plus the ZIP file from ATI/nVidia web site and issue one simple rpmbuild command to get the installable RPM.
Altought I understand the political and religious guidelines of the Fedora project, I still believe this is a huge problem that should be discussed and fixed somehow. So in this point, I don't agree with Paul Stauffer in his previous e-mail.
Regards, Avi
2008/9/29 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
2008/9/29 Juan M. Rodriguez nushio@gmail.com
2008/9/29 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
hello
We can always create a secondary non free repository which will contain all the free drivers and packages[ which is not open source] and the mp3 part is ok... they are playing mp3 in that way.
Thanks.
Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
"We can always create a secondary non free repository"
We already have one, its called Livna[1], they provide packages for both ATI and Nvidia cards that are packaged for Fedora, which would mean no conflicts with existing drivers. They are sometimes hours-to-days behind kernel updates (Specifically security kernel updates) which leaves users with dependency conflicts (Either update the kernel and lose the drivers, or stay insecure for some time)
Regards
Ing. Juan M. Rodriguez Moreno Desarrollador de Sistemas Abiertos Sitio: http://proyectofedora.org/mexico
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Hello
The livna graphics drivers does not support 3D hardware Acceleration . Is livna a official fedora repository?
regards, Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 04:34:17PM -0300, Avi Alkalay wrote:
Also, the nVidia and ATI drivers at Livna are the open source ones -- not the original, more feature rich, more powerful, 3D capable, binary ones. I
No. They are still the proprietary drivers. Redistribution is not the issue with them; their license is the problem. Fedora won't distribute them because they are not available under an open source license. And because their licenses are incompatible with the GPL, they violate the Linux kernel license, and therefore Fedora *cannot* redistribute them.
What I think Livna (or other repo) could do is what the JPackage project does for a long time: provide nosrc.rpm packages. These are only the source RPM without the license-problematic stuff. From
This is off-topic for a Fedora mailing list. If you want to debate what Livna should be doing, take it to Livna. Fedora has no relationship with nor responsibility for Livna or any other 3rd party repository.
Altought I understand the political and religious guidelines of the Fedora project, I still believe this is a huge problem that should be discussed and fixed somehow. So in this point, I don't agree with Paul Stauffer in his previous e-mail.
You are right that it is a huge problem. You are wrong if you think this is simply a political/religious problem; it is a LEGAL problem. And you are wrong if you think that discussing this (AGAIN!) is the solution. The problem and the solutions are already well known by everyone involved: change the manufacturers or change the law. There is nothing else we can do. Repeating this discussion every other month is a waste of everyone's time.
Again, I recommend that you read this: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems
If anything on there is unclear, please feel free to ask for a more detailed explanation.
- Paul
Honestly it doesn't matter whether you agree or not. Fedora is tied to Red Hat, Red Hat isn't going to expose itself to liability by including non-free codecs. Let's not forget that Red Hat own 80% of the commercial Linux market, and contributes a ton to important projects like the Linux kernel, X.org and Gnome, and as such is a HUGE target. And that makes the penalty for securing 3d acceleration on a video card look way unbalanced.
More importantly one of Fedora's founding principles is freedom. Part of that is open source - if you don't like Fedora's stance on open source software there are other distributions who don't take as hard a stance. Part of that is freedom to redistribute - yes Fedora could get a license to redistribute (if Fedora didn't care about open source software) and they could redistribute some binary drivers from ATI or Nvidia - but then downstream distributions couldn't do that legally - again there are other distributions that don't take as firm a stance - but Fedora does.
Fedora doesn't take its stance on freedom out of some masochistic tendencies. Actually Fedora understands and believes that Free/Libre Open Source Software is the way to go. Fedora understands that you don't become more free by pushing non-free software into the distribution. Fedora has tremendous leverage power relatively speaking because they won't package non-free software. So when the likes of Yahoo want something like Zimbra in Fedora - they bring their licensing into compliance. When Mozilla wants to push a EULA on end users, Fedora has a lot more standing to object.
While I rarely suggest that people would be happier with other distributions I think it may be true in this instance.
Paul is essentially correct-
You either have to convince the video card manufacturers to open source their drivers or at least release the specs, OR you have to write them. Nouveau is doing this, if it's so important an issue I hope that you are supporting them and actively involved in their project.
On the MP3 and other codec front - you'd essentially need to convince legislators that the patent laws need to be rewritten.
Please stop asking for Fedora to change - you'd essentially have to rid Fedora of Red Hat - populate the board with people who don't care about Fedora's stance on freedom, and hope that you don't get Fedora sued in the process. As an ambassador I'd expect that all of you understand why Fedora has taken it's stance on freedom and why it's important not to compromise, and not call to uproot the very foundation that fedora is built on.
As far as I know, Livna policy is to only include open source software. It is a repo for patent-problematic, but yet open source software. So MPEG-4, MP3, AAC, H.264, Xvid, MPlayer etc stuff -- that all has open source implementations -- are available on Livna, and this is enough for playing virtually all multimedia content you can get.
Also, the nVidia and ATI drivers at Livna are the open source ones -- not the original, more feature rich, more powerful, 3D capable, binary ones. I believe there is also a license problem when you download the original binary drivers, repackage them and put them someplace else for downloading. They are not freely distributable, I think. So if you repackage these binary drivers you are violating their licence for distribution.
What I think Livna (or other repo) could do is what the JPackage project does for a long time: provide nosrc.rpm packages. These are only the source RPM without the license-problematic stuff. From the user perspective, he'll have to download the nosrc.rpm file plus the ZIP file from ATI/nVidia web site and issue one simple rpmbuild command to get the installable RPM.
Altought I understand the political and religious guidelines of the Fedora project, I still believe this is a huge problem that should be discussed and fixed somehow. So in this point, I don't agree with Paul Stauffer in his previous e-mail.
Regards, Avi
2008/9/29 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
2008/9/29 Juan M. Rodriguez nushio@gmail.com
2008/9/29 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
hello
We can always create a secondary non free repository which will contain all the free drivers and packages[ which is not open source] and the mp3 part is ok... they are playing mp3 in that way.
Thanks.
Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
"We can always create a secondary non free repository"
We already have one, its called Livna[1], they provide packages for both ATI and Nvidia cards that are packaged for Fedora, which would mean no conflicts with existing drivers. They are sometimes hours-to-days behind kernel updates (Specifically security kernel updates) which leaves users with dependency conflicts (Either update the kernel and lose the drivers, or stay insecure for some time)
Regards
Ing. Juan M. Rodriguez Moreno Desarrollador de Sistemas Abiertos Sitio: http://proyectofedora.org/mexico
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Hello
The livna graphics drivers does not support 3D hardware Acceleration . Is livna a official fedora repository?
regards, Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- http://avi.alkalay.net/blog
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
I don't think Fedora must change. I like its principles the way they are.
I just think the community should create easy to use repos to distribute these closed source software.
I also think that is quite violent to ask users to stop asking about these proprietary SW. There are no viable alternatives right now. If somebody asks for MS Office, I would suggest them to use OOo because it is viable. But as far as I know, the open source video drivers for nVidia are not very viable. For those, the proprietary is the mainstream now, and the open source version is the promise for the future. In a while, I hope, the proprietary ones will be the secondary option.
Regards, Avi
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 5:09 PM, David Nalley david@gnsa.us wrote:
Honestly it doesn't matter whether you agree or not. Fedora is tied to Red Hat, Red Hat isn't going to expose itself to liability by including non-free codecs. Let's not forget that Red Hat own 80% of the commercial Linux market, and contributes a ton to important projects like the Linux kernel, X.org and Gnome, and as such is a HUGE target. And that makes the penalty for securing 3d acceleration on a video card look way unbalanced.
More importantly one of Fedora's founding principles is freedom. Part of that is open source - if you don't like Fedora's stance on open source software there are other distributions who don't take as hard a stance. Part of that is freedom to redistribute - yes Fedora could get a license to redistribute (if Fedora didn't care about open source software) and they could redistribute some binary drivers from ATI or Nvidia - but then downstream distributions couldn't do that legally - again there are other distributions that don't take as firm a stance - but Fedora does.
Fedora doesn't take its stance on freedom out of some masochistic tendencies. Actually Fedora understands and believes that Free/Libre Open Source Software is the way to go. Fedora understands that you don't become more free by pushing non-free software into the distribution. Fedora has tremendous leverage power relatively speaking because they won't package non-free software. So when the likes of Yahoo want something like Zimbra in Fedora - they bring their licensing into compliance. When Mozilla wants to push a EULA on end users, Fedora has a lot more standing to object.
While I rarely suggest that people would be happier with other distributions I think it may be true in this instance.
Paul is essentially correct-
You either have to convince the video card manufacturers to open source their drivers or at least release the specs, OR you have to write them. Nouveau is doing this, if it's so important an issue I hope that you are supporting them and actively involved in their project.
On the MP3 and other codec front - you'd essentially need to convince legislators that the patent laws need to be rewritten.
Please stop asking for Fedora to change - you'd essentially have to rid Fedora of Red Hat - populate the board with people who don't care about Fedora's stance on freedom, and hope that you don't get Fedora sued in the process. As an ambassador I'd expect that all of you understand why Fedora has taken it's stance on freedom and why it's important not to compromise, and not call to uproot the very foundation that fedora is built on.
As far as I know, Livna policy is to only include open source software.
It
is a repo for patent-problematic, but yet open source software. So
MPEG-4,
MP3, AAC, H.264, Xvid, MPlayer etc stuff -- that all has open source implementations -- are available on Livna, and this is enough for playing virtually all multimedia content you can get.
Also, the nVidia and ATI drivers at Livna are the open source ones -- not the original, more feature rich, more powerful, 3D capable, binary ones. I believe there is also a license problem when you download the original binary drivers, repackage them and put them someplace else for
downloading.
They are not freely distributable, I think. So if you repackage these
binary
drivers you are violating their licence for distribution.
What I think Livna (or other repo) could do is what the JPackage project does for a long time: provide nosrc.rpm packages. These are only the source RPM without the license-problematic stuff. From the user perspective, he'll have to download the nosrc.rpm file plus the
ZIP
file from ATI/nVidia web site and issue one simple rpmbuild command to
get
the installable RPM.
Altought I understand the political and religious guidelines of the
Fedora
project, I still believe this is a huge problem that should be discussed
and
fixed somehow. So in this point, I don't agree with Paul Stauffer in his previous e-mail.
Regards, Avi
2008/9/29 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
2008/9/29 Juan M. Rodriguez nushio@gmail.com
2008/9/29 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
hello
We can always create a secondary non free repository which will
contain
all the free drivers and packages[ which is not open source] and the mp3 part is ok... they are playing mp3 in that way.
Thanks.
Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
"We can always create a secondary non free repository"
We already have one, its called Livna[1], they provide packages for
both
ATI and Nvidia cards that are packaged for Fedora, which would mean no conflicts with existing drivers. They are sometimes hours-to-days
behind
kernel updates (Specifically security kernel updates) which leaves
users
with dependency conflicts (Either update the kernel and lose the
drivers, or
stay insecure for some time)
Regards
Ing. Juan M. Rodriguez Moreno Desarrollador de Sistemas Abiertos Sitio: http://proyectofedora.org/mexico
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Hello
The livna graphics drivers does not support 3D hardware Acceleration .
Is
livna a official fedora repository?
regards, Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- http://avi.alkalay.net/blog
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
2008/9/29 Juan M. Rodriguez nushio@gmail.com:
"We can always create a secondary non free repository"
We already have one, its called Livna[1], they provide packages for both ATI and Nvidia cards that are packaged for Fedora, which would mean no conflicts with existing drivers. They are sometimes hours-to-days behind kernel updates (Specifically security kernel updates) which leaves users with dependency conflicts (Either update the kernel and lose the drivers, or stay insecure for some time)
This is false too. There are special modules in livna called 'akmods' which behave like kmods, but can be recompiled on demand. I will not openly recommend suggesting to users to use livna, nor will I tell them that the best practice is to install both the kmods and akmods. I will not tell them that their computer will then have the binary drivers installed, and when livna does not update the drivers, it will recompile them on its own. I will not even go so far to tell them that they may need to reboot their computer twice when using the nvidia drivers. But a few good hints, and they usually figure it out themselves. ;).
-Yaakov
Shambo Bose wrote:
hello
We can always create a secondary non free repository which will contain all the free drivers and packages[ which is not open source] and the mp3 part is ok... they are playing mp3 in that way.
Thanks.
Shambo Bose
livna.repo, http://rpm.livna.org/rlowiki/ , have most thing, maybe just add what missing. Just my thoughts.
Hello
I would agree with Shambo that Fedora needs more Nvidia and ATI drivers. Relying on other repositories like rpm.livna.org to maintain kernal compliant drivers is a problem we should easily overcome. I have had problems trying to compile my own.
Thanks Robert Chambers
2008/9/29 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
Hello
The nvidia and ATI grahics drivers are freely available from their website . So, why can't we add them to yum repository. If there is any roblem we can add them to a secondary non-free yum repository.
I have also faced some questions from fedora users in my locality that : why mp3 music and some video formats cannot be played out of the box ?
Thanks.
Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
This discussion is pointless and repetitive.
It *can't* happen, and it *shouldn't* happen; therefore it *won't* happen.
If after all these years and all the explanations and discussions you still don't understand, there's not much more we can do. Go read this: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems
Please stop replying to this thread with more opinions. If you don't like the current situations, preach to users to use alternate hardware, or work to change the hardware manufacturers' behaviors, or lobby to change US intellectual property laws. Because those are the only solutions to this problem.
- Paul
On Mon, Sep 29, 2008 at 01:40:15PM -0500, Robert Chambers wrote:
Hello
I would agree with Shambo that Fedora needs more Nvidia and ATI drivers. Relying on other repositories like rpm.livna.org to maintain kernal compliant drivers is a problem we should easily overcome. I have had problems trying to compile my own.
Thanks Robert Chambers
2008/9/29 Shambo Bose shambo.linux@gmail.com
Hello
The nvidia and ATI grahics drivers are freely available from their website . So, why can't we add them to yum repository. If there is any roblem we can add them to a secondary non-free yum repository.
I have also faced some questions from fedora users in my locality that : why mp3 music and some video formats cannot be played out of the box ?
Thanks.
Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
--
Erma Bombeck - "Never have more children than you have car windows."
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Newbie here:
Newish to linux\Fedora (came in on F8) A blow in you might say.
(A) Fedora's policy is here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems
There are also mailing list guidelines here: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
Both camps seem to have missed the second link.
Now the formalities are out of the way.
(B) 1: Fedora is free to use as a personal choice, there's no contract. 2: "We aren't competing with other distributions." https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors/AnswerQuestions
I love Fedora for the choice it has given me. Up to that point all I knew was a North American OS, non-free in either meaning.
In all sincerity if Fedora does not suit, when someone comes to you with a question, refer to (B).
Frank
Shambo Bose wrote:
I have also faced some questions from fedora users in my locality that : why mp3 music and some video formats cannot be played out of the box ?
And how did you respond to such questions ?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Sankarshan (সঙ্কর্ষণ) wrote:
Shambo Bose wrote:
I have also faced some questions from fedora users in my locality that : why mp3 music and some video formats cannot be played out of the box ?
And how did you respond to such questions ?
Tell them the importance of free software and have them read about it on the GNU.org. Explain why patents are holding back software development and help them to understand why Fedora holds freedom so high.
Zachary Oglesby wrote:
Sankarshan (¸Í°Í·£) wrote:
Shambo Bose wrote:
I have also faced some questions from fedora users in my locality that : why mp3 music and some video formats cannot be played out of the box ?
And how did you respond to such questions ?
Tell them the importance of free software and have them read about it on the GNU.org. Explain why patents are holding back software development and help them to understand why Fedora holds freedom so high.
Ah yes, I was more curious as to how Shambo responds to this questions - the notion being to figure out whether the end users are comprehending such concepts.
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:54 AM, "Sankarshan (সঙ্কর্ষণ)" < foss.mailinglists@gmail.com> wrote:
Zachary Oglesby wrote:
Sankarshan (¸™Í•°Í·£) wrote:
Shambo Bose wrote:
I have also faced some questions from fedora users in my locality that
:
why mp3 music and some video formats cannot be played out of the box ?
And how did you respond to such questions ?
Tell them the importance of free software and have them read about it on the GNU.org. Explain why patents are holding back software development and help them to understand why Fedora holds freedom so high.
Ah yes, I was more curious as to how Shambo responds to this questions - the notion being to figure out whether the end users are comprehending such concepts.
--
http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Hi,
I am currently telling users either convert their videos and other media format to ogg or I am recommending them to use the package which Movie player recommends to use .
Thank You.
your sincerely,
Shambo Bose
hi,
why don't we create an add on disk or something like that so normal users can download this too and install the codecs and drivers etc. Now i do realize it has to be unofficial but hows the idea?
I am working in a school right now as a systems administrator, a programmer and a teacher. I want to install fedora and install the educational softwares too. I am hoping we could come up with a educational spin ( I realize there is something similar to that but as I see its concentrating towards mathematics) like the edubuntu.
Satyajit
On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 16:16 +0530, Shambo Bose wrote:
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:54 AM, "Sankarshan (সঙ্কর্ষণ)" foss.mailinglists@gmail.com wrote: Zachary Oglesby wrote: > Sankarshan (¸™Í•°Í·£) wrote: >> Shambo Bose wrote: > >>> I have also faced some questions from fedora users in my locality that : >>> why mp3 music and some video formats cannot be played out of the box ? >> And how did you respond to such questions ? > > Tell them the importance of free software and have them read about it on > the GNU.org. Explain why patents are holding back software development > and help them to understand why Fedora holds freedom so high.
Ah yes, I was more curious as to how Shambo responds to this questions - the notion being to figure out whether the end users are comprehending such concepts. -- http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work -- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Hi,
I am currently telling users either convert their videos and other media format to ogg or I am recommending them to use the package which Movie player recommends to use .
Thank You.
your sincerely,
Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:18:11PM +0700, Satyajit Ranjeev wrote:
why don't we create an add on disk or something like that so normal users can download this too and install the codecs and drivers etc. Now i do realize it has to be unofficial but hows the idea?
Sigh.
Once again, this is off-topic for any Fedora list. Please go talk to the Livna people or some other 3rd party if you want to do something like this.
And again: It would be a VIOLATION OF US PATENT LAW for the Fedora Project to distribute many of the multimedia codecs you refer to, and it would be a VIOLATION OF THE GPL, and therefore a VIOLATION OF US COPYRIGHT LAW for the Fedora Project to distribute non-GPL-compliant kernel modules such as the video drivers you refer to. Does everyone understand this? Would it help if I used more capital letters? The fact is we are LEGALLY FORBIDDEN to do what you are asking. So everyone, PLEASE stop asking.
If you live in the free world where software patents are not valid, then you are absolutely free to make your own repo or disk or whatever that contains all the open source codecs that you want, just like Livna does. But *Fedora* can't do it unless US law changes. Period, end of story.
- Paul
I wrote a tutorial (a basic copy-paste of some yum commands) on how to quickly install all codecs etc in a Fedora box.
http://avi.alkalay.net/2007/06/fedora-post-installation-configurations.html
You can play DVDs and DivX and H.264 and MP4 a few minutes after installing Fedora with this tutorial.
Regards, Avi
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 1:18 PM, Satyajit Ranjeev satyajit@nerdshack.comwrote:
hi,
why don't we create an add on disk or something like that so normal users can download this too and install the codecs and drivers etc. Now i do realize it has to be unofficial but hows the idea?
I am working in a school right now as a systems administrator, a programmer and a teacher. I want to install fedora and install the educational softwares too. I am hoping we could come up with a educational spin ( I realize there is something similar to that but as I see its concentrating towards mathematics) like the edubuntu.
Satyajit
On Tue, 2008-09-30 at 16:16 +0530, Shambo Bose wrote:
On Tue, Sep 30, 2008 at 11:54 AM, "Sankarshan (সঙ্কর্ষণ)" foss.mailinglists@gmail.com wrote: Zachary Oglesby wrote: > Sankarshan (¸™Í•°Í·£) wrote: >> Shambo Bose wrote: > >>> I have also faced some questions from fedora users in my locality that : >>> why mp3 music and some video formats cannot be played out of the box ? >> And how did you respond to such questions ? > > Tell them the importance of free software and have them read about it on > the GNU.org. Explain why patents are holding back software development > and help them to understand why Fedora holds freedom so high.
Ah yes, I was more curious as to how Shambo responds to this questions - the notion being to figure out whether the end users are comprehending such concepts. -- http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work -- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
Hi,
I am currently telling users either convert their videos and other media format to ogg or I am recommending them to use the package which Movie player recommends to use .
Thank You.
your sincerely,
Shambo Bose
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
-- Fedora-ambassadors-list mailing list Fedora-ambassadors-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-ambassadors-list
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org