Sirko (and everyone),
I've been reading your multi-part series on how you're doing the F26 release party in Phnom Penh.
I think this is a fantastic idea. I like that you are working directly with lots of future members of the IT working groups in Cambodia and likely future contributors. I really appreciate how using Fedora as a base has let you talk about all kinds of technology and firmly introduce it. Students are a hard audience, and it seems like you've found a great low-resource high energy way to engage them. This is awesome. Keep your posts coming.
I think these kind of release parties create an opportunity for existing contributors and ambassadors to really bond with potential community members. Many of our activities don't seem to have obvious followup. I would be surprised if there isn't clear followup by Sirko here as he will obviously have invested a lot of time and made friends (by showing off freedom, features and first). What other ideas could we do like this in your region?
If you haven't read it, read it now: http://karl-tux-stadt.de/ktuxs/?p=4958
regards,
bex
On 07/24/2017 05:17 PM, Brian Exelbierd wrote:
Sirko (and everyone),
I've been reading your multi-part series on how you're doing the F26 release party in Phnom Penh.
I think this is a fantastic idea. I like that you are working directly with lots of future members of the IT working groups in Cambodia and likely future contributors. I really appreciate how using Fedora as a base has let you talk about all kinds of technology and firmly introduce it. Students are a hard audience, and it seems like you've found a great low-resource high energy way to engage them. This is awesome. Keep your posts coming.
I think these kind of release parties create an opportunity for existing contributors and ambassadors to really bond with potential community members. Many of our activities don't seem to have obvious followup. I would be surprised if there isn't clear followup by Sirko here as he will obviously have invested a lot of time and made friends (by showing off freedom, features and first). What other ideas could we do like this in your region?
If you haven't read it, read it now: http://karl-tux-stadt.de/ktuxs/?p=4958
Wow, this is super exciting to read and hear about! It sounds like a high impact area and I love how it's getting students involved not just as attendees but as active participants (maybe something we can try to do in other areas of the world too, with a friendly NGO / non-profit). This definitely has given me a lot to think about for both strategical and motivational ideas of promoting Fedora – thanks Brian for sharing and awesome work Sirko. :)
Hi,
Sorry for the late answer but I was a bit busy last week.
Am 25.07.2017 um 05:17 schrieb Brian Exelbierd:
Sirko (and everyone),
I've been reading your multi-part series on how you're doing the F26 release party in Phnom Penh.
I think this is a fantastic idea. I like that you are working directly with lots of future members of the IT working groups in Cambodia and likely future contributors. I really appreciate how using Fedora as a base has let you talk about all kinds of technology and firmly introduce it. Students are a hard audience, and it seems like you've found a great low-resource high energy way to engage them. This is awesome. Keep your posts coming.
I think these kind of release parties create an opportunity for existing contributors and ambassadors to really bond with potential community members. Many of our activities don't seem to have obvious followup. I would be surprised if there isn't clear followup by Sirko here as he will obviously have invested a lot of time and made friends (by showing off freedom, features and first). What other ideas could we do like this in your region?
yes there was a lot of time investment, the organizing of it started last year in May/June as I was first time at PNC for discussing their curriculum. The curriculum was changed since then, e.g. is now CENTOS used for teaching Linux basics instead of SLES. We had several meetups, what I in my Fedora role could do to support PNC in their process to get the students ready for their later role. There will be another more Fedora oriented workshop, where we talk more about Fedora itself. The students know already the relationship Fedora has to CENTOS and looking forward to it. But so far the "Release Party" part is not finished yet. I still have to write a post about the Saturday and there are follow ups, every student did get a questionaire where I have received right now 28/50 after we received all and evaluated them, I will have another meeting with John Munger as head of PNC and Benoit Pitet to make an judgement, if we will do this in future again and where we been good with and where we can do better. So far we have a good feeling, as we made a short round after the party itself. There is another positive outcome, PN has not just a branch in Cambodia they have also one in Da Nang/Viet Nam and Cebu/Philippines so we might do it there in the future to, but lets see.
So it was highly time consuming what I did (and still havent finished yet) but here are all things more time consuming as in Europe or America.
If you want to help the region, then tell some first of all to realize the geographical size of it. They shall take an old atlas and cut out the Philippines and put it over Europe and the same they can do with Indonesia and put it over US. Maybe then they realize a bit of the dimensions and time zone problem we have here and stop to think its totally easy here to organize ONLINE IRC MEETINGS. Not speaking that even a rich country like Singapore has sometimes electricity problems ;)
Time is the biggest issue here, everything costs a lot of time and you have also lesser time. Brian I told you back at FUDCon, Asia would need an Impact by itself. The people have lesser time here to organize things but they are willing to contribute and participate. I remember a discussion with Jeroen and Tuan about motivation of Asians, Tuan and I did not agree that they have to be motivated, they do everything with a lot of passion but organizing things they have a problem with, they lack on expierience for doing it and the time to do it. So the job for this Impact is to organize with the help of the locals, local events. We have also get rid of the thinking that they will be the same kind of contributors as we currently have in other parts of the world. Here we will have more an amount of people that will join an hackfest or sprint. Forget about any idea to that ONLINE, it will not work. Why question yourself, why I never did hear from Yekleang Dy, did she really start with the Web Team? The answer is no, why she doesnt know what IRC is, not what is SSH and and and.... They have a problem to learn such things by themself, they need somebody next to them with an idea, what it is. Therefore you do here better FAD, hackfests and sprints or do you expect me to go to each potential contributor and do it personally? Can do that, send me a cheque for my living costs ;)
But first of all this region needs more attention at all and a changing in thinking of some people. I give you an example, your budget changes created a lot of uncertainty here in APAC what leads to that no money is spent and the activity of all here broke down. So when in future the council or FPL wants to make changes in the budgeting or similar things, come up with a clear plan and not say, we will tell you later.....
Here its anyway more complicated to do things strategically and plan events long ahead, thats why APAC always has the problem spending his budget as planned. If you did read my post I already complained about it. You really commit here sometimes a lot of time in an event and then it doesnt happen and of course Asian dont blog about that, only success stories ;) We will not change that, they seeing that as a failure and telling that in public means they loose their face.
There are ideas for more events, also in the region and not just local, but in the current atmosphere Fedora is in, I will not do.
br gnokii
If you haven't read it, read it now: http://karl-tux-stadt.de/ktuxs/?p=4958
regards,
bex _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
Ideas for next party (release or otherwise)
Add a security spin or design spin showcase
- Security spin: Seeing as it's an IT concentration, use the security spin and maybe few VMs to showcase how to test compliance with various benchmarks, best practices, passphrase dice even (if possible), passcards (usign gpg even)
For the passcards, use a gpg key generation/signing party to teach the uses and best practices of signing code/binary/messages/hosting encrypted password files ( or sharing as such between colleagues). Then have them take a file say a resume or research paper and run gpg2 -e -a -u 0xKEYID ~/file to get an armored .asc to use for passwords/passphrases or salts/hashes etc for padding/hardening.
Wireless/wired monitoring showcase, we all know some regions are notorious for less than ideal connects and censorship, show how tools built into Fedora, namely curated in the security spin (dnf install @security-lab for non security spins, to bootstrap) for ways to detect or create own friendly networks for lan parties and the like. Also as a tangent use this to show how to harden a blog or webserver against attacks using a VM or other system and attacking with common vectors with tools in Fedora.
-- Design spin:
Showcase gimp, showing how it can be used to replace photoshop and in many cases be more featured and functional. Show how 3D printing or designs can easily be drafted in the tools in Design spin and then imported ( largely untouched) into 3D modeling /printing suites ( most also available in Fedora,Rpmfusion,COPR).
Just a few stub ideas for anyone for their next event or party.
On 7/31/17 9:01 AM, buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de wrote:
Hi,
Sorry for the late answer but I was a bit busy last week.
Am 25.07.2017 um 05:17 schrieb Brian Exelbierd:
Sirko (and everyone),
I've been reading your multi-part series on how you're doing the F26 release party in Phnom Penh.
I think this is a fantastic idea. I like that you are working directly with lots of future members of the IT working groups in Cambodia and likely future contributors. I really appreciate how using Fedora as a base has let you talk about all kinds of technology and firmly introduce it. Students are a hard audience, and it seems like you've found a great low-resource high energy way to engage them. This is awesome. Keep your posts coming.
I think these kind of release parties create an opportunity for existing contributors and ambassadors to really bond with potential community members. Many of our activities don't seem to have obvious followup. I would be surprised if there isn't clear followup by Sirko here as he will obviously have invested a lot of time and made friends (by showing off freedom, features and first). What other ideas could we do like this in your region?
yes there was a lot of time investment, the organizing of it started last year in May/June as I was first time at PNC for discussing their curriculum. The curriculum was changed since then, e.g. is now CENTOS used for teaching Linux basics instead of SLES. We had several meetups, what I in my Fedora role could do to support PNC in their process to get the students ready for their later role. There will be another more Fedora oriented workshop, where we talk more about Fedora itself. The students know already the relationship Fedora has to CENTOS and looking forward to it. But so far the "Release Party" part is not finished yet. I still have to write a post about the Saturday and there are follow ups, every student did get a questionaire where I have received right now 28/50 after we received all and evaluated them, I will have another meeting with John Munger as head of PNC and Benoit Pitet to make an judgement, if we will do this in future again and where we been good with and where we can do better. So far we have a good feeling, as we made a short round after the party itself. There is another positive outcome, PN has not just a branch in Cambodia they have also one in Da Nang/Viet Nam and Cebu/Philippines so we might do it there in the future to, but lets see.
So it was highly time consuming what I did (and still havent finished yet) but here are all things more time consuming as in Europe or America.
If you want to help the region, then tell some first of all to realize the geographical size of it. They shall take an old atlas and cut out the Philippines and put it over Europe and the same they can do with Indonesia and put it over US. Maybe then they realize a bit of the dimensions and time zone problem we have here and stop to think its totally easy here to organize ONLINE IRC MEETINGS. Not speaking that even a rich country like Singapore has sometimes electricity problems ;)
Time is the biggest issue here, everything costs a lot of time and you have also lesser time. Brian I told you back at FUDCon, Asia would need an Impact by itself. The people have lesser time here to organize things but they are willing to contribute and participate. I remember a discussion with Jeroen and Tuan about motivation of Asians, Tuan and I did not agree that they have to be motivated, they do everything with a lot of passion but organizing things they have a problem with, they lack on expierience for doing it and the time to do it. So the job for this Impact is to organize with the help of the locals, local events. We have also get rid of the thinking that they will be the same kind of contributors as we currently have in other parts of the world. Here we will have more an amount of people that will join an hackfest or sprint. Forget about any idea to that ONLINE, it will not work. Why question yourself, why I never did hear from Yekleang Dy, did she really start with the Web Team? The answer is no, why she doesnt know what IRC is, not what is SSH and and and.... They have a problem to learn such things by themself, they need somebody next to them with an idea, what it is. Therefore you do here better FAD, hackfests and sprints or do you expect me to go to each potential contributor and do it personally? Can do that, send me a cheque for my living costs ;)
But first of all this region needs more attention at all and a changing in thinking of some people. I give you an example, your budget changes created a lot of uncertainty here in APAC what leads to that no money is spent and the activity of all here broke down. So when in future the council or FPL wants to make changes in the budgeting or similar things, come up with a clear plan and not say, we will tell you later.....
Here its anyway more complicated to do things strategically and plan events long ahead, thats why APAC always has the problem spending his budget as planned. If you did read my post I already complained about it. You really commit here sometimes a lot of time in an event and then it doesnt happen and of course Asian dont blog about that, only success stories ;) We will not change that, they seeing that as a failure and telling that in public means they loose their face.
There are ideas for more events, also in the region and not just local, but in the current atmosphere Fedora is in, I will not do.
br gnokii
If you haven't read it, read it now: http://karl-tux-stadt.de/ktuxs/?p=4958
regards,
bex _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Mon, Jul 31, 2017, at 02:13 PM, Corey Sheldon wrote:
Ideas for next party (release or otherwise)
Add a security spin or design spin showcase
- Security spin: Seeing as it's an IT concentration, use the security spin and maybe few VMs to showcase how to test compliance with various benchmarks, best practices, passphrase dice even (if possible), passcards (usign gpg even)> For the passcards, use a gpg key generation/signing party to teach the uses and best practices of signing code/binary/messages/hosting encrypted password files ( or sharing as such between colleagues). Then have them take a file say a resume or research paper and run gpg2 -e -a -u 0xKEYID ~/file to get an armored .asc to use for passwords/passphrases or salts/hashes etc for padding/hardening.> Wireless/wired monitoring showcase, we all know some regions are notorious for less than ideal connects and censorship, show how tools built into Fedora, namely curated in the security spin (dnf install @security-lab for non security spins, to bootstrap) for ways to detect or create own friendly networks for lan parties and the like. Also as a tangent use this to show how to harden a blog or webserver against attacks using a VM or other system and attacking with common vectors with tools in Fedora.>
-- Design spin:
Showcase gimp, showing how it can be used to replace photoshop and in many cases be more featured and functional.> Show how 3D printing or designs can easily be drafted in the tools in Design spin and then imported ( largely untouched) into 3D modeling /printing suites ( most also available in Fedora,Rpmfusion,COPR).>Just a few stub ideas for anyone for their next event or party.
I also think gnokii's idea for a "how to join an online community: IRC/SSH/etc." is great too. Corey, do you have curriculums/playbooks/guides for these events so that Ambassadors can replicate them? We need to get out of hte business of everyone have to reinvent the wheel. regards,
bex
On 7/31/17 9:01 AM, buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de wrote:
Hi,
Sorry for the late answer but I was a bit busy last week.
Am 25.07.2017 um 05:17 schrieb Brian Exelbierd:
Sirko (and everyone), I've been reading your multi-part series on how you're doing the F26 release party in Phnom Penh. I think this is a fantastic idea. I like that you are working directly with lots of future members of the IT working groups in Cambodia and likely future contributors. I really appreciate how using Fedora as a base has let you talk about all kinds of technology and firmly introduce it. Students are a hard audience, and it seems like you've found a great low-resource high energy way to engage them. This is awesome. Keep your posts coming. I think these kind of release parties create an opportunity for existing contributors and ambassadors to really bond with potential community members. Many of our activities don't seem to have obvious followup. I would be surprised if there isn't clear followup by Sirko here as he will obviously have invested a lot of time and made friends (by showing off freedom, features and first). What other ideas could we do like this in your region?>>
yes there was a lot of time investment, the organizing of it started last year in May/June as I was first time at PNC for discussing their curriculum. The curriculum was changed since then, e.g. is now CENTOS used for teaching Linux basics instead of SLES. We had several meetups, what I in my Fedora role could do to support PNC in their process to get the students ready for their later role.>> There will be another more Fedora oriented workshop, where we talk more about Fedora itself. The students know already the relationship Fedora has to CENTOS and looking forward to it. But so far the "Release Party" part is not finished yet. I still have to write a post about the Saturday and there are follow ups, every student did get a questionaire where I have received right now 28/50 after we received all and evaluated them, I will have another meeting with John Munger as head of PNC and Benoit Pitet to make an judgement, if we will do this in future again and where we been good with and where we can do better. So far we have a good feeling, as we made a short round after the party itself. There is another positive outcome, PN has not just a branch in Cambodia they have also one in Da Nang/Viet Nam and Cebu/Philippines so we might do it there in the future to, but lets see. >> So it was highly time consuming what I did (and still havent finished yet) but here are all things more time consuming as in Europe or America. >> If you want to help the region, then tell some first of all to realize the geographical size of it. They shall take an old atlas and cut out the Philippines and put it over Europe and the same they can do with Indonesia and put it over US. Maybe then they realize a bit of the dimensions and time zone problem we have here and stop to think its totally easy here to organize ONLINE IRC MEETINGS. Not speaking that even a rich country like Singapore has sometimes electricity problems ;)>> Time is the biggest issue here, everything costs a lot of time and you have also lesser time. Brian I told you back at FUDCon, Asia would need an Impact by itself. The people have lesser time here to organize things but they are willing to contribute and participate. I remember a discussion with Jeroen and Tuan about motivation of Asians, Tuan and I did not agree that they have to be motivated, they do everything with a lot of passion but organizing things they have a problem with, they lack on expierience for doing it and the time to do it. So the job for this Impact is to organize with the help of the locals, local events. We have also get rid of the thinking that they will be the same kind of contributors as we currently have in other parts of the world. Here we will have more an amount of people that will join an hackfest or sprint. Forget about any idea to that ONLINE, it will not work. Why question yourself, why I never did hear from Yekleang Dy, did she really start with the Web Team? The answer is no, why she doesnt know what IRC is, not what is SSH and and and.... They have a problem to learn such things by themself, they need somebody next to them with an idea, what it is. Therefore you do here better FAD, hackfests and sprints or do you expect me to go to each potential contributor and do it personally? Can do that, send me a cheque for my living costs ;)>> But first of all this region needs more attention at all and a changing in thinking of some people. I give you an example, your budget changes created a lot of uncertainty here in APAC what leads to that no money is spent and the activity of all here broke down. So when in future the council or FPL wants to make changes in the budgeting or similar things, come up with a clear plan and not say, we will tell you later.....>> Here its anyway more complicated to do things strategically and plan events long ahead, thats why APAC always has the problem spending his budget as planned. If you did read my post I already complained about it. You really commit here sometimes a lot of time in an event and then it doesnt happen and of course Asian dont blog about that, only success stories ;) We will not change that, they seeing that as a failure and telling that in public means they loose their face.>> There are ideas for more events, also in the region and not just local, but in the current atmosphere Fedora is in, I will not do. >> br gnokii
If you haven't read it, read it now: http://karl-tux-stadt.de/ktuxs/?p=4958 regards, bex _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
_______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
-- Corey W Sheldon P: +11 310.909.7672 PGP: (Personal) 4700FD6D3EC254F946BB9404D0C33581852FCCC7 :|: (Fedora) 758793008171DABBCB5896F7D2E1CCE920100F28 (Ameridea) DDFCB8FBD28A95E866E5D237147DCFBF56D339DC :|: (Keybase) 3B7289AF0B1AA12186DD6965C7DCC808E8F3267F Freelance IT Consultant :|: Multi-Discipline Tutor :|: Founder, Ameridea https://keybase.io/linux_modder :|: https://www.ameridea.net ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Do or don't Do, there is no try -- Yoda A goal is not always meant to be reached, it often serves simply as something to aim at --Bruce Lee You don't understand anything until you learn it more than one way --Marvin Minsky "One must never underestimate the power of boredom...from which creativity and laziness are borne, which can spark great works of chaos and genius." --Anonymous "Any man willing to retreat freedom for security is deserving of neither." (Pp) -- Benjamin Franklin. This document, including attachments, is intended for the person or company named and contains confidential and/or legally privileged information. Unauthorized disclosure, copying or use of this information may be unlawful and is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please destroy this message and notify the sender.> _________________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
On Mon, Jul 31, 2017, at 11:01 AM, buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de wrote:> Hi,
Sorry for the late answer but I was a bit busy last week.
Am 25.07.2017 um 05:17 schrieb Brian Exelbierd:
Sirko (and everyone), I've been reading your multi-part series on how you're doing the F26 release party in Phnom Penh. I think this is a fantastic idea. I like that you are working directly with lots of future members of the IT working groups in Cambodia and likely future contributors. I really appreciate how using Fedora as a base has let you talk about all kinds of technology and firmly introduce it. Students are a hard audience, and it seems like you've found a great low-resource high energy way to engage them. This is awesome. Keep your posts coming. I think these kind of release parties create an opportunity for existing contributors and ambassadors to really bond with potential community members. Many of our activities don't seem to have obvious followup. I would be surprised if there isn't clear followup by Sirko here as he will obviously have invested a lot of time and made friends (by showing off freedom, features and first). What other ideas could we do like this in your region?>
yes there was a lot of time investment, the organizing of it started last year in May/June as I was first time at PNC for discussing their curriculum. The curriculum was changed since then, e.g. is now CENTOS used for teaching Linux basics instead of SLES. We had several meetups, what I in my Fedora role could do to support PNC in their process to get the students ready for their later role.> There will be another more Fedora oriented workshop, where we talk more about Fedora itself. The students know already the relationship Fedora has to CENTOS and looking forward to it. But so far the "Release Party" part is not finished yet. I still have to write a post about the Saturday and there are follow ups, every student did get a questionaire where I have received right now 28/50 after we received all and evaluated them, I will have another meeting with John Munger as head of PNC and Benoit Pitet to make an judgement, if we will do this in future again and where we been good with and where we can do better. So far we have a good feeling, as we made a short round after the party itself. There is another positive outcome, PN has not just a branch in Cambodia they have also one in Da Nang/Viet Nam and Cebu/Philippines so we might do it there in the future to, but lets see. > So it was highly time consuming what I did (and still havent finished yet) but here are all things more time consuming as in Europe or America. > If you want to help the region, then tell some first of all to realize the geographical size of it. They shall take an old atlas and cut out the Philippines and put it over Europe and the same they can do with Indonesia and put it over US. Maybe then they realize a bit of the dimensions and time zone problem we have here and stop to think its totally easy here to organize ONLINE IRC MEETINGS. Not speaking that even a rich country like Singapore has sometimes electricity problems ;)
While I intended my question to be a general one to prompt all ambassadors to think, I appreciate your answer as it raises awareness of some of the logistical challenges in APAC. I think that working with FAmSCo we can find that there are a lot of ideas that could be put into place. In particular, I know that @robyduck is working on some ideas that could help here too. Let's get creative on how we can make this work. This means what can we change to get a functioning system without destroying our ability to operate. As someone "on the ground" your ideas are critical here.
Time is the biggest issue here, everything costs a lot of time and you have also lesser time. Brian I told you back at FUDCon, Asia would need an Impact by itself. The people have lesser time here to organize things but they are willing to contribute and participate.\
I do not believe that time is a unique problem for APAC. I'd argue every region has its own version of this problem. However, I don't understand why longer planning cycles and the like are insufficient here. Can you expand on this?
I remember a discussion with Jeroen and Tuan about motivation of Asians, Tuan and I did not agree that they have to be motivated, they do everything with a lot of passion but organizing things they have a problem with, they lack on expierience for doing it and the time to do it. So the job for this Impact is to organize with the help of the locals, local events.
When I am approached with similar questions in other regions, my gut response is to start with the suggestion from the person closest to the culture/region in question and then "work out." In this case, I think a discussion about motivation is less relevant than your second sentence. We should always be working with local contributors and non-contributors. This is a general answer that applies in most scenarios. If we try to do all the work on our own our ambassadors (and by extension the whole project) will just burn out.
We have also get rid of the thinking that they will be the same kind of contributors as we currently have in other parts of the world. Here we will have more an amount of people that will join an hackfest or sprint. Forget about any idea to that ONLINE, it will not work.
I disagree completely. I think there are bright people everyone. They may have, as your point out, different modalities, but I refuse to believe we can't have a contributor everywhere. If, as you say, no one in Cambodia will do online participation, then we may need to look at defering action in Cambodia until we know what we want to do that either helps people join our online community or how we are going to bridge offline and online. I'd like to see answers to this before we just start a parallel program to create an isolated community. Fedora is driven in part by "network effect."
Why question yourself, why I never did hear from Yekleang Dy, did she really start with the Web Team? The answer is no, why she doesnt know what IRC is, not what is SSH and and and.... They have a problem to learn such things by themself, they need somebody next to them with an idea, what it is. Therefore you do here better FAD, hackfests and sprints or do you expect me to go to each potential contributor and do it personally? Can do that, send me a cheque for my living costs ;)
If you don't want to organize the events for Fedora then you are not obligated to do so. You volunteered for this role and you are free to leave it at any time. However, I know that we have success stories around the world where people are organizing those kinds of events. In fact, I think we could all work together to write a good curriculum to use for these kinds of events. These will be people and time commitments of the project, but they don't have to be expensive in dollars.
But first of all this region needs more attention at all and a changing in thinking of some people. I give you an example, your budget changes created a lot of uncertainty here in APAC what leads to that no money is spent and the activity of all here broke down. So when in future the council or FPL wants to make changes in the budgeting or similar things, come up with a clear plan and not say, we will tell you later.....
The council has realized that it did not communicate its message as clearly as intended and we have been taking steps to fix that. The LATAM ORG FAD included me solely for this reason. LATAM doesn't need my help to organize, but it was a great opportunity for me to help convey the council's message. We can do this for APAC in the form that makes the most sense. I think that trying to pin the struggles of APAC on the budget is merely covering up larger challenges, challenges you mention earlier.
Here its anyway more complicated to do things strategically and plan events long ahead, thats why APAC always has the problem spending his budget as planned. If you did read my post I already complained about it. You really commit here sometimes a lot of time in an event and then it doesnt happen and of course Asian dont blog about that, only success stories ;) We will not change that, they seeing that as a failure and telling that in public means they loose their face.
I need your help in understanding how we can work on this. You seem to be saying that there is a) not enough time; b) things move slowly; and c) planning over a longer horizon fails. I don't think I am understanding you. I know that India and China have both had successes. Can we use those ideas to help other countries? Should we start by focusing on the areas of success and not spread ourselves so thin? Can you figure out what events are successful in your region and lets copy their planning process.
There are ideas for more events, also in the region and not just local, but in the current atmosphere Fedora is in, I will not do.
This is very much your right. I am sure your contributions will be missed. I am sorry to see that you are choosing to no longer be a Fedora Ambassador. I am sure that FAmA can help you get delisted. Should you choose to rejoin the Ambassador community I am sure you would be welcome. If you want to contribute more ideas, I encourage you to work with the regional ambassadors. regards,
bex
br gnokii
If you haven't read it, read it now: http://karl-tux-stadt.de/ktuxs/?p=4958 regards, bex _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Hi,
Am 01.08.2017 um 16:06 schrieb Brian Exelbierd:
On Mon, Jul 31, 2017, at 11:01 AM, buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de mailto:buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de wrote:
Hi,
Sorry for the late answer but I was a bit busy last week.
Am 25.07.2017 um 05:17 schrieb Brian Exelbierd:
Sirko (and everyone),
I've been reading your multi-part series on how you're doing the F26 release party in Phnom Penh.
I think this is a fantastic idea. I like that you are working directly with lots of future members of the IT working groups in Cambodia and likely future contributors. I really appreciate how using Fedora as a base has let you talk about all kinds of technology and firmly introduce it. Students are a hard audience, and it seems like you've found a great low-resource high energy way to engage them. This is awesome. Keep your posts coming.
I think these kind of release parties create an opportunity for existing contributors and ambassadors to really bond with potential community members. Many of our activities don't seem to have obvious followup. I would be surprised if there isn't clear followup by Sirko here as he will obviously have invested a lot of time and made friends (by showing off freedom, features and first). What other ideas could we do like this in your region?
yes there was a lot of time investment, the organizing of it started last year in May/June as I was first time at PNC for discussing their curriculum. The curriculum was changed since then, e.g. is now CENTOS used for teaching Linux basics instead of SLES. We had several meetups, what I in my Fedora role could do to support PNC in their process to get the students ready for their later role. There will be another more Fedora oriented workshop, where we talk more about Fedora itself. The students know already the relationship Fedora has to CENTOS and looking forward to it. But so far the "Release Party" part is not finished yet. I still have to write a post about the Saturday and there are follow ups, every student did get a questionaire where I have received right now 28/50 after we received all and evaluated them, I will have another meeting with John Munger as head of PNC and Benoit Pitet to make an judgement, if we will do this in future again and where we been good with and where we can do better. So far we have a good feeling, as we made a short round after the party itself. There is another positive outcome, PN has not just a branch in Cambodia they have also one in Da Nang/Viet Nam and Cebu/Philippines so we might do it there in the future to, but lets see.
So it was highly time consuming what I did (and still havent finished yet) but here are all things more time consuming as in Europe or America.
If you want to help the region, then tell some first of all to realize the geographical size of it. They shall take an old atlas and cut out the Philippines and put it over Europe and the same they can do with Indonesia and put it over US. Maybe then they realize a bit of the dimensions and time zone problem we have here and stop to think its totally easy here to organize ONLINE IRC MEETINGS. Not speaking that even a rich country like Singapore has sometimes electricity problems ;)
While I intended my question to be a general one to prompt all ambassadors to think, I appreciate your answer as it raises awareness of some of the logistical challenges in APAC.
you opened "Sirko (and everyone)"
I think that working with FAmSCo we can find that there are a lot of ideas that could be put into place. In particular, I know that @robyduck is working on some ideas that could help here too.
Let's get creative on how we can make this work. This means what can we change to get a functioning system without destroying our ability to operate. As someone "on the ground" your ideas are critical here.
Are they? Sorry I have not seen good output from FAmSCo during the last period, where shall it come from currently there sitting people in this body, they dont know why we had this rules and where they come from. So they assume to know everything and do things wildly just to do something and thats then called success. Thats a joke nothing else.
The current FAmSCo did choose to MAKE someone of them to an Ambassador so that he can serve in that body, instead of doing it the right way, taking the next elected one and why because one of them would have a problem with the next elected one. And even more they re-wrote the rules so that FAmSCo can do it always this way.
THIS IS HIGHLY UNDEMOCRATIC
The only thing I have seen is someone using his FAmSCo power to decide tickets which are his own or from close friends.....
There are solutions for it and they have to be discussed amongst the Ambassadors of the region and not be decided by FAmSCo.
Time is the biggest issue here, everything costs a lot of time and you have also lesser time. Brian I told you back at FUDCon, Asia would need an Impact by itself. The people have lesser time here to organize things but they are willing to contribute and participate.\
I do not believe that time is a unique problem for APAC. I'd argue every region has its own version of this problem. However, I don't understand why longer planning cycles and the like are insufficient here. Can you expand on this?
well, I dont know what you talking here of. The only thing I mentioned was the time zones in the text above and it seems you have not done what I told you to do. You still say that NA has the same trouble like APAC just in another way, so I see you have not putted Indonesia over the US map. Never said its unique, just much larger as for others. Just gave one example why these IRC meetings dont work, there are some other reasons why.
I remember a discussion with Jeroen and Tuan about motivation of Asians, Tuan and I did not agree that they have to be motivated, they do everything with a lot of passion but organizing things they have a problem with, they lack on expierience for doing it and the time to do it. So the job for this Impact is to organize with the help of the locals, local events.
When I am approached with similar questions in other regions, my gut response is to start with the suggestion from the person closest to the culture/region in question and then "work out." In this case, I think a discussion about motivation is less relevant than your second sentence. We should always be working with local contributors and non-contributors. This is a general answer that applies in most scenarios. If we try to do all the work on our own our ambassadors (and by extension the whole project) will just burn out.
you didnt get the point. Maybe we get it this way, just point me out an community driven FOSS event in the region, who works since a few years. You will hardly find them. Maybe now you get the point, you have to lead them in organizing it.
We have also get rid of the thinking that they will be the same kind of contributors as we currently have in other parts of the world. Here we will have more an amount of people that will join an hackfest or sprint. Forget about any idea to that ONLINE, it will not work.
I disagree completely. I think there are bright people everyone. They may have, as your point out, different modalities, but I refuse to believe we can't have a contributor everywhere.
sure you disagree, to something I never said. I never said we cant have an contributor everywhere. Maybe you mean that there are "bright people everywhere" that might be, but mostly this bright people have another agenda.
If, as you say, no one in Cambodia will do online participation, then we may need to look at defering action in Cambodia until we know what we want to do that either helps people join our online community or how we are going to bridge offline and online. I'd like to see answers to this before we just start a parallel program to create an isolated community. Fedora is driven in part by "network effect."
first of all we dont speak here not about Cambodia, we speaking about the region thats not APAC thats Southeast Asia. I think there is enough evidence, that I am totally opposed to creating isolated communities. I think all the participants of the FAD's in APAC can tell you that I always have to say "stop thinking as vietnamese, malaysian, chinese or indian, start acting as Fedora APAC". But what shall I say your kind of "network" I can see since a while very well.
Why question yourself, why I never did hear from Yekleang Dy, did she really start with the Web Team? The answer is no, why she doesnt know what IRC is, not what is SSH and and and.... They have a problem to learn such things by themself, they need somebody next to them with an idea, what it is. Therefore you do here better FAD, hackfests and sprints or do you expect me to go to each potential contributor and do it personally? Can do that, send me a cheque for my living costs ;)
If you don't want to organize the events for Fedora then you are not obligated to do so. You volunteered for this role and you are free to leave it at any time.
Can you please show me, where I volunteered for this role and said I am responsible when Brian Exelbierd has found somebody who might contribute to educate him for you? I dont think its written in the role of the Ambassadors and I never said personally I will do this. If you think that somebody fits, its your responsebility to lead him in and not that of somebody else!
I continue here doing it my way, getting a bunch of people together and introduce them to all the stuff at once and not each single one alone. If you think thats wrong, as I said send me my living costs then I can spent this huge amount of time for each singulary.
However, I know that we have success stories around the world where people are organizing those kinds of events. In fact, I think we could all work together to write a good curriculum to use for these kinds of events. These will be people and time commitments of the project, but they don't have to be expensive in dollars.
speaking about "expensive in dollars" do you think its fair that a few Greek can use all the budget of an Release Party for eating pizza or the RedHatters of the Coimbatore office get a cake and even exceed the budget limit for it and if you compare the amount of guests its nothing compared to an event here. Well I used just two leftover shirts from FUDCon and 50 stickers, seems you speaking about it to the wrong person, start speaking to the others.
But first of all this region needs more attention at all and a changing in thinking of some people. I give you an example, your budget changes created a lot of uncertainty here in APAC what leads to that no money is spent and the activity of all here broke down. So when in future the council or FPL wants to make changes in the budgeting or similar things, come up with a clear plan and not say, we will tell you later.....
The council has realized that it did not communicate its message as clearly as intended and we have been taking steps to fix that. The LATAM ORG FAD included me solely for this reason. LATAM doesn't need my help to organize, but it was a great opportunity for me to help convey the council's message. We can do this for APAC in the form that makes the most sense.
really? As the decision was made that FAD get covered out of the regional budget, I raised my voice that this is impossible. The costs of one are roughly 5k $, great thing doing it out of a 10k budget.
I think that trying to pin the struggles of APAC on the budget is merely covering up larger challenges, challenges you mention earlier.
I pinned the struggles long time ago
Here its anyway more complicated to do things strategically and plan events long ahead, thats why APAC always has the problem spending his budget as planned. If you did read my post I already complained about it. You really commit here sometimes a lot of time in an event and then it doesnt happen and of course Asian dont blog about that, only success stories ;) We will not change that, they seeing that as a failure and telling that in public means they loose their face.
I need your help in understanding how we can work on this. You seem to be saying that there is a) not enough time; b) things move slowly; and c) planning over a longer horizon fails. I don't think I am understanding you.
I not said things move slowly, I said things cost time. I mean you should have noticed by yourself, I didnt want your first day in PP sitting in the office waiting for the tshirt supplier and I told him I will be only available until 10am. I joined you for lunch and he still wasnt there, yeah he called as I was on the way back from the Riverside where I am, he would stay before my office. I give you another example, Ryans lost luggage and how long it took until it arrived in the hotel. For you its totally normal airline lost luggage, they are responsible for bringing it to you. Here I was called 5.30am, I could pick up the luggage at the airport. So I called the office of the airline, the first operator did also wanted me to pick it up there, also her supervisor thought this way at the begin, so I had an short discussion with him who is the customer and who did miss to fulfill the contract and he agreed that it would be their responsebility to bring the luggage to the hotel. Ok then I got called by the airport office, where to bring it. 2 hours later they called me they would start from the airport now, I did send Ryan back to the hotel. Then the tuktuk driver was calling me, saying where he stands 500 meter before the hotel, I explained him they way and guess what he never arrived. During lunch the airline office called me and he yelled at me, because my phone was turned off for an hour and I said to him, it should be clear already as the driver called me 2 hours ago and he said, he could not find the person to deliver to. Well it arrived in the afternoon then.... A thing which is totally normal in Europe or NA, costs here several hours to solve, I did not have to call United as they lost my luggage for Rochester ;) There been many more of this examples during FUDCon here that involved you, like going to the reception in the hotel and asking how much it would be. See in Europe or NA, the receptionist would answer, yes we will prepare for you, in an hour we will have it ready for you. Here, she is not allowed to handle money, only her supervisor. So she says she cant do. Where we would say in an hour and call the supervisor ;) So going a second time, so that she does see you really want it or going to the right person, however it needs more time ;) Has nothing to do with moving slowly, things are more time consuming. I need 3 meetings here, where I have back in Germany just 1.
I know that India and China have both had successes. Can we use those ideas to help other countries? Should we start by focusing on the areas of success and not spread ourselves so thin?
May I refresh your memory, you said once it might be because of in India live more people we have more success there and I answered to you that I dont think that in India living more people then in China. There might be some other things which influence this, like two large RedHat offices or do you think that the large amount of Czech contributors is also because there live so many people there? You might also take the spent budget over the last 10 years and look where the money went to and as you read you might read also logfiles from the APAC meetings, maybe you see the pattern I saw. The pattern I mean is where decisions was made fast to spent it and where was endless discussions, leading to the nirvana.
I think each first semester economy student can tell you, that you have not to invest in the Cash Cows anymore, they are there for milking and you should push the money in your problem zones.
Copying ideas of India doesnt help, its like Kushal saying always "do smaller events first". That is complete nonsense here. I can give you a nice example, on my BDay Somvannda made a list of tech-oriented events in Phnom Penh. It been 11 different events parallel like Women Techmakers by the Google Developers Group, SmartStart from Smart Axiata, Technovation festival, the Cellcard Super Data Race and and and. I personally joined a talk of Stephen Wolfram here, well it was more a private audience as there was only 4 people and this event was driven by US AID Development Innovations, who have btw. a large network for marketing. So I can do smaller events and will sit there then alone, especially I even have enough money to provide the usual drinking water.
You might stop thinking in your terms, like success is only when we got a contributor. Success is for me also when people know what Fedora is and thats the current stage where we are in a lot of Asian countries. You never invested here but you want to have output.... har har har. There is missing a commitment to Asia and Asia is not just India!!! https://web.facebook.com/groups/666378823381759/?fref=mentions
Can you figure out what events are successful in your region and lets copy their planning process.
Well, if you would read my blog more often you would see, that I am involved already, but there is nothing to copy, there is no "planning". Its just that the have reached a mass and the name of the event is well known and that opens some doors but not always. That or you have some money to spent, thats the key here.
Start thinking in asian terms not try to press your western view on it, "planning process" is something what is not done here, they just do. Just look at the example with the tech-oriented events, they dont look if there are other events for the same audience that day, they just look at their own schedule. Funny 2 of the events of that day are from the same organization....
There are ideas for more events, also in the region and not just local, but in the current atmosphere Fedora is in, I will not do.
This is very much your right. I am sure your contributions will be missed. I am sorry to see that you are choosing to no longer be a Fedora Ambassador. I am sure that FAmA can help you get delisted. Should you choose to rejoin the Ambassador community I am sure you would be welcome. If you want to contribute more ideas, I encourage you to work with the regional ambassadors.
You should stop interpreting things, I never said I will stop working as an Ambassador and FAmA has not to help me to get delisted. I also have not to be encouraged to work with the regional Ambassadors, I do. The problem might be and I told you many times before not everything is visible for you. I just said I dont do more events for the region right now, as in the current mood Fedora is in it makes no sense. I think everybody here has seen that you did say, spread the money just there where output comes and that is the mood I mean. I just think it makes no sense to spend more of my working time for it, never said I will stop doing local events nor contributing to Fedora.
I candidating for FAmSCo again and I think a lot of people know, I am not somebody who gives up, I fight for their rights as well for mine.
br gnokii
regards,
bex
br gnokii
If you haven't read it, read it now: http://karl-tux-stadt.de/ktuxs/?p=4958
regards,
bex _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list --ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email toambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Il giorno sab 5 ago 2017 alle ore 10:29 buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de ha scritto:
Hi, [cut]
I think that working with FAmSCo we can find that there are a lot of ideas that could be put into place. In particular, I know that @robyduck is working on some ideas that could help here too.
Let's get creative on how we can make this work. This means what can we change to get a functioning system without destroying our ability to operate. As someone "on the ground" your ideas are critical here.
Are they? Sorry I have not seen good output from FAmSCo during the last period, where shall it come from currently there sitting people in this body, they dont know why we had this rules and where they come from. So they assume to know everything and do things wildly just to do something and thats then called success. Thats a joke nothing else.
The current FAmSCo did choose to MAKE someone of them to an Ambassador so that he can serve in that body, instead of doing it the right way, taking the next elected one and why because one of them would have a problem with the next elected one. And even more they re-wrote the rules so that FAmSCo can do it always this way.
THIS IS HIGHLY UNDEMOCRATIC
The only thing I have seen is someone using his FAmSCo power to decide tickets which are his own or from close friends.....
There are solutions for it and they have to be discussed amongst the Ambassadors of the region and not be decided by FAmSCo.
Hello, Sirko.
Only few things here. You know I respect you and that I'm cosidering you a friend of mine as well, but you really are bothering with this fact. I wish we could discuss face to face, but we could not. You know I was thinking the same way as you, before the confirm of the seats, but a democratic votation inside FAmSCo ended with the results you are aware. I accepted this decision, why you cannot? So you have a really strange idea of what is democratic and what is not. If the decision was in the hands of actual FAmSCo, who are you to do not accept it? So, please, go further and don't try to persuade people to think as you think.
Hope to see you soon.
Gabri
[cut]
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+1 Gabi
I absolutly agree.
br gerold
Am 05.08.2017 um 11:02 schrieb Gabriele Trombini:
Il giorno sab 5 ago 2017 alle ore 10:29 <buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de mailto:buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de> ha scritto:
Hi, [cut]I think that working with FAmSCo we can find that there are a lot of ideas that could be put into place. In particular, I know that @robyduck is working on some ideas that could help here too. Let's get creative on how we can make this work. This means what can we change to get a functioning system without destroying our ability to operate. As someone "on the ground" your ideas are critical here.Are they? Sorry I have not seen good output from FAmSCo during the last period, where shall it come from currently there sitting people in this body, they dont know why we had this rules and where they come from. So they assume to know everything and do things wildly just to do something and thats then called success. Thats a joke nothing else. The current FAmSCo did choose to MAKE someone of them to an Ambassador so that he can serve in that body, instead of doing it the right way, taking the next elected one and why because one of them would have a problem with the next elected one. And even more they re-wrote the rules so that FAmSCo can do it always this way. THIS IS HIGHLY UNDEMOCRATIC The only thing I have seen is someone using his FAmSCo power to decide tickets which are his own or from close friends..... There are solutions for it and they have to be discussed amongst the Ambassadors of the region and not be decided by FAmSCo.Hello, Sirko.
Only few things here. You know I respect you and that I'm cosidering you a friend of mine as well, but you really are bothering with this fact. I wish we could discuss face to face, but we could not. You know I was thinking the same way as you, before the confirm of the seats, but a democratic votation inside FAmSCo ended with the results you are aware. I accepted this decision, why you cannot? So you have a really strange idea of what is democratic and what is not. If the decision was in the hands of actual FAmSCo, who are you to do not accept it? So, please, go further and don't try to persuade people to think as you think.
Hope to see you soon.
Gabri
[cut]
_______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org> To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org <mailto:ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org>-- Gabri
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2017-08-05 11:02 GMT+02:00 Gabriele Trombini g.trombini@gmail.com:
Il giorno sab 5 ago 2017 alle ore 10:29 buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de ha scritto:
Hi, [cut]
I think that working with FAmSCo we can find that there are a lot of ideas that could be put into place. In particular, I know that @robyduck is working on some ideas that could help here too.
Let's get creative on how we can make this work. This means what can we change to get a functioning system without destroying our ability to operate. As someone "on the ground" your ideas are critical here.
Are they? Sorry I have not seen good output from FAmSCo during the last period, where shall it come from currently there sitting people in this body, they dont know why we had this rules and where they come from. So they assume to know everything and do things wildly just to do something and thats then called success. Thats a joke nothing else.
The current FAmSCo did choose to MAKE someone of them to an Ambassador so that he can serve in that body, instead of doing it the right way, taking the next elected one and why because one of them would have a problem with the next elected one. And even more they re-wrote the rules so that FAmSCo can do it always this way.
THIS IS HIGHLY UNDEMOCRATIC
The only thing I have seen is someone using his FAmSCo power to decide tickets which are his own or from close friends.....
There are solutions for it and they have to be discussed amongst the Ambassadors of the region and not be decided by FAmSCo.
Hello, Sirko.
Only few things here. You know I respect you and that I'm cosidering you a friend of mine as well, but you really are bothering with this fact. I wish we could discuss face to face, but we could not. You know I was thinking the same way as you, before the confirm of the seats, but a democratic votation inside FAmSCo ended with the results you are aware. I accepted this decision, why you cannot? So you have a really strange idea of what is democratic and what is not. If the decision was in the hands of actual FAmSCo, who are you to do not accept it? So, please, go further and don't try to persuade people to think as you think.
Hope to see you soon.
Gabri
So, I was replying to Sirko's accusations to the actual FAmSCo and its activity of the last months. I think we did a lot and clarified many points, trying to make them better. We even tried to be nearer to all ambassadors and I think we succeeded doing that. Having 10 nominations (many from NA, which was the region for the last years not represented at all) for 3 seats means, we are interesting again and probably moved into the right direction. That said, I stopped writing when I saw Gabri's reply; he was able to resume all the points very well and I agree with him. Sirko, don't look always on negative things from the past, try to contribute with positive energy and make concrete proposals as you did during all these years.
Regards.
On August 5, 2017 at 10:59 AM buergermeister@karl-tux-stadt.de wrote:
Hi,
Sirko, what is with you?
speaking about "expensive in dollars" do you think its fair that a few Greek can use all the budget of an Release Party for eating pizza or the RedHatters of the Coimbatore office get a cake and even exceed the budget limit for it and if you compare the amount of guests its nothing compared to an event here.
I'm getting tired that you constantly express hatred against your fellow community members. You have been asked to stop multiple times (both publicly and privately), but it seems you keep repeating the same behaviour. Just stop.
The purpose of a release party is to bring local community members together, to help spread Fedora as well as the software that accompanies Fedora and -of course- to celebrate the most recent Fedora release. Speaking of fairness, those release parties you mentioned had approved budget requests and turned out to be successful (i.e. they indeed met the aforementioned three goals).
You can't really compare one community to another - each one is unique, has its own strengths and weaknesses and (based on both internal and external factors) operates in a different way. Subsequently, you can't compare one community event to another either.
Regards, -Giannis K.
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Brian Exelbierd -
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Corey Sheldon -
Gabriele Trombini -
Gerold -
Giannis Konstantinidis -
Justin W. Flory -
Robert Mayr