On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:58 AM, nitesh narayan lal niteshnarayan@fedoraproject.org wrote:
But do you have any specific plans such as conducting events etc for making Fedora-women active (its a good idea). Then you can certainly share it here, We will try to help you as much as possible .
I will see what can be done.
0. I am seeing a lack of direction (apart from inactivity) at https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Women
1. The goal of improving collaboration within Fedora is definitely sensible, but we need to look beyond.
2. Initiatives within Fedora : A FAS group will be useful.
3. If we need to reach out/ expand free s/w network then apart from s/w related aspects we need to look at other avenues.
4. Different regions and cultures of oppression exist. We need to address them differently.
5. A Fedora distribution (or any spin) is not customized for any group of people: by way of themes, information (that go beyond documentation). Can we have spins that address a. rights including things like the s/w in http://www.huridocs.org/research-development/ and related customization. b. lack of basic knowledge among people that lead to social evils. c. Other kinds of basic knowledge that can empower people. This is going beyond the education spins.
and free software that provide the same (instead of dumping entire Wikipedia / links on people).
(that is some work)
6. There are innumerable rights to be fought for and rights are a way of reaching out to people.
Events will keep happening ... but there should be different kinds of events.
Best
A. Mani
-- A. Mani CU, ASL, AMS, CLC, CMS http://www.logicamani.in
I think creating Fedora Remix will be a good way to make start.
El mar, 21-05-2013 a las 04:06 +0530, A. Mani escribió:
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 8:58 AM, nitesh narayan lal niteshnarayan@fedoraproject.org wrote:
But do you have any specific plans such as conducting events etc for making Fedora-women active (its a good idea). Then you can certainly share it here, We will try to help you as much as possible .
I will see what can be done.
- I am seeing a lack of direction (apart from inactivity) at
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Women
- The goal of improving collaboration within Fedora is definitely
sensible, but we need to look beyond.
Initiatives within Fedora : A FAS group will be useful.
If we need to reach out/ expand free s/w network then apart from
s/w related aspects we need to look at other avenues.
- Different regions and cultures of oppression exist. We need to
address them differently.
- A Fedora distribution (or any spin) is not customized for any group
of people: by way of themes, information (that go beyond documentation). Can we have spins that address a. rights including things like the s/w in http://www.huridocs.org/research-development/ and related customization. b. lack of basic knowledge among people that lead to social evils. c. Other kinds of basic knowledge that can empower people. This is going beyond the education spins.
and free software that provide the same (instead of dumping entire Wikipedia / links on people).
(that is some work)
- There are innumerable rights to be fought for and rights are a way
of reaching out to people.
Events will keep happening ... but there should be different kinds of events.
Best
A. Mani
-- A. Mani CU, ASL, AMS, CLC, CMS http://www.logicamani.in -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
I am male, and I am very worried about the lower female participation in free software community. What in turn goes back to lower female representation in our local fedora community.
I have been pursuing this issue for a about 4 or 5 years now with little success. I have learned a couple of things. First, it is hard to reach critical mass. The skills of some women does not match the needs of other. The second is that some how what the community need is a safe environment free of trolls. Rude people impact hard on beginners, as some males come back for a second round, we turn blind to the fact that we are dismissing a lot of beginners. They may have some technical skills, but are facing the challenge of some unspoken group rules that come from old dynamics, that are fading but not eradicated. Trolling include some male flirtation, from invading personal space to harassment (hope not).
We started by having a code of conduct that in its first point address our aim for this safe environment gender/new-comers aware. We have tried to the maximum to foster that in our local fedora group but sadly, it is hard to keep trolls out. Some issues raised in our local mailing list by our own fedora enthusiast been rude. Some times it is from people part of the free software general community attending our events. It is difficult but most fedora official members (as in FAS account holders) are committed to this.
Nevertheless, in Nicaragua, we have failed before. We are trying the idea of promoting a monthly women gathering about free software. Initially with males only for invitation, hope that later more open door, but always with power of banning people. I am sponsoring the place and stepping aside from participating. I have contacted some TIC groups with female focus. I hope that if this work, we can later get sponsorship from some NGO that we are using now to spread the word about this group.
This is a difficult task for Fedora Community, as this is a issue that have to be dealt locally, and some times local fedora groups are not big and resourceful enough to do some sort of what we are planning in Nicaragua. I want my comments give hope and ideas to built a better fedora community. I am really needing more insight, so please any advise is more that welcome.
On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 9:51 PM, Neville A. Cross neville@taygon.com wrote:
I have been pursuing this issue for a about 4 or 5 years now with little success. I have learned a couple of things. First, it is hard to reach critical mass. The skills of some women does not match the needs of other. The second is that some how what the community need is a safe environment free of trolls. Rude people impact hard on beginners, as some males come back for a second round, we turn blind to the fact that we are dismissing a lot of beginners. They may have some technical skills, but are facing the challenge of some unspoken group rules that come from old dynamics, that are fading but not eradicated. Trolling include some male flirtation, from invading personal space to harassment (hope not).
We started by having a code of conduct that in its first point address our aim for this safe environment gender/new-comers aware. We have tried to the maximum to foster that in our local fedora group but sadly, it is hard to keep trolls out. Some issues raised in our local mailing list by our own fedora enthusiast been rude. Some times it is from people part of the free software general community attending our events. It is difficult but most fedora official members (as in FAS account holders) are committed to this.
Nevertheless, in Nicaragua, we have failed before. We are trying the idea of promoting a monthly women gathering about free software. Initially with males only for invitation, hope that later more open door, but always with power of banning people. I am sponsoring the place and stepping aside from participating. I have contacted some TIC groups with female focus. I hope that if this work, we can later get sponsorship from some NGO that we are using now to spread the word about this group.
This is a difficult task for Fedora Community, as this is a issue that have to be dealt locally, and some times local fedora groups are not big and resourceful enough to do some sort of what we are planning in Nicaragua. I want my comments give hope and ideas to built a better fedora community. I am really needing more insight, so please any advise is more that welcome.
Yes, the local aspect is very important.
In India, we have had many college/university level events with women participation, but very few of the participants actually go up to the level of contributing or into advocacy.
The issues in India are very different from that of Nicaragua. Here we have huge economic inequality and deprivation. Sex education is not part of the education system and only a small percentage of the people are literate. Our target group in India can only include the lower middle class and above. The patriarchy in conjunction with evil religions and caste does not permit most women to think or act freely. Since it is a systematic brainwashing process, even progressive forces cannot or do not work against it for various reasons. Discrimination is the norm. Apart from the Left, none of the political parties have progressive views and the Left does have electoral compulsions. We have organizations that work towards "free software for poorer classes" and taking free s/w to villages like FSMWB, FSMK and FSMI. In the state of Kerala, they have ~100% literacy and free s/w adoption has happened to some extent (the present state Govt is not so friendly towards free s/w ) due to low level work of free s/w communities, but they still have a very patriarchal scheme of social order.
Basically it is necessary to combine feminism(s) with Fedora. This is difficult because of Fedora policies/goals. It is necessary to select better active forms of feminism and work with related groups. Otherwise pushing ahead with "community participation" and "participation of women" without any real thrust on the the basic issues preventing participation will not work.
Ubuntu on the other hand might venture into evil things like religion: ubuntu-christian edition etc. They do not have a feminism(s) or woman edition. So I am specifying it in depth. A few preliminary posts on that are here: https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/wfs-india/CDQje...
Many of the so-called Indian feminist groups are themselves backward, stuck in patriarchal scheme of things, hetero-normative perspectives and other anti-progressive views. So one needs to be cautious about the type of people to work with.
Best
A. Mani
-- A. Mani CU, ASL, AMS, CLC, CMS http://www.logicamani.in
Hello all.
To be honest, I don't have a huge believe into "woman groups" since that starts setting the line in the first place. It's true that a safe environment would be the best, however; is sounds a bit odd to say "hey, I want equality for everyone... but you must treat me well because I'ma girl".
My experience might be a bit particular and even if we all know that there are fewer girls into IT, is not only because the environment, is because there are few, period. Just to place the example.
If you go to an IT class at any college/university; you might see that classroom is about 70% male and 30% female (depending on the specialty the number might vary); so, why do we want more female participation if it's obvious that numbers have never been equal?
We can consider that the part that nobody likes to accept. Now; it's also true that environment (not everywhere but mostly) is not female-friendly just because that, from this small percent; some girls only come to feel desired and like goddess. The even smaller part that DO want to bring some change finds themselves hiding behind neutral nicknames, fighting the ocean of comments or just gets tired and helps other ways. Truth is that, if we want equality, we must fight to get it and even if the woman groups are an awesome place to share experiences and motivate participation, but that's it.
I guess a lot of people expect that support groups do something for them and forget that change is in our bare hands. What we can do with a women group at Fedora, I srsly don't know; but if each group that feels despised (aka; religion, ethnics, etc etc) starts creating a support group, then there will be 100 small groups not focusing into the large group that can actually make the change.
2013/5/27 A. Mani a.mani.cms@gmail.com
On Sun, May 26, 2013 at 9:51 PM, Neville A. Cross neville@taygon.com wrote:
I have been pursuing this issue for a about 4 or 5 years now with little success. I have learned a couple of things. First, it is hard to reach critical mass. The skills of some women does not match the needs of other. The second is that some how what the community need is a safe environment free of trolls. Rude people impact hard on beginners, as some males come back for a second round, we turn blind to the fact that we are dismissing a lot of beginners. They may have some technical skills, but are facing the challenge of some unspoken group rules that come from old dynamics, that are fading but not eradicated. Trolling include some male flirtation, from invading personal space to harassment (hope not).
We started by having a code of conduct that in its first point address our aim for this safe environment gender/new-comers aware. We have tried to the maximum to foster that in our local fedora group but sadly, it is hard to keep trolls out. Some issues raised in our local mailing list by our own fedora enthusiast been rude. Some times it is from people part of the free software general community attending our events. It is difficult but most fedora official members (as in FAS account holders) are committed to this.
Nevertheless, in Nicaragua, we have failed before. We are trying the idea of promoting a monthly women gathering about free software. Initially with males only for invitation, hope that later more open door, but always with power of banning people. I am sponsoring the place and stepping aside from participating. I have contacted some TIC groups with female focus. I hope that if this work, we can later get sponsorship from some NGO that we are using now to spread the word about this group.
This is a difficult task for Fedora Community, as this is a issue that have to be dealt locally, and some times local fedora groups are not big and resourceful enough to do some sort of what we are planning in Nicaragua. I want my comments give hope and ideas to built a better fedora community. I am really needing more insight, so please any advise is more that welcome.
Yes, the local aspect is very important.
In India, we have had many college/university level events with women participation, but very few of the participants actually go up to the level of contributing or into advocacy.
The issues in India are very different from that of Nicaragua. Here we have huge economic inequality and deprivation. Sex education is not part of the education system and only a small percentage of the people are literate. Our target group in India can only include the lower middle class and above. The patriarchy in conjunction with evil religions and caste does not permit most women to think or act freely. Since it is a systematic brainwashing process, even progressive forces cannot or do not work against it for various reasons. Discrimination is the norm. Apart from the Left, none of the political parties have progressive views and the Left does have electoral compulsions. We have organizations that work towards "free software for poorer classes" and taking free s/w to villages like FSMWB, FSMK and FSMI. In the state of Kerala, they have ~100% literacy and free s/w adoption has happened to some extent (the present state Govt is not so friendly towards free s/w ) due to low level work of free s/w communities, but they still have a very patriarchal scheme of social order.
Basically it is necessary to combine feminism(s) with Fedora. This is difficult because of Fedora policies/goals. It is necessary to select better active forms of feminism and work with related groups. Otherwise pushing ahead with "community participation" and "participation of women" without any real thrust on the the basic issues preventing participation will not work.
Ubuntu on the other hand might venture into evil things like religion: ubuntu-christian edition etc. They do not have a feminism(s) or woman edition. So I am specifying it in depth. A few preliminary posts on that are here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/wfs-india/CDQje...
Many of the so-called Indian feminist groups are themselves backward, stuck in patriarchal scheme of things, hetero-normative perspectives and other anti-progressive views. So one needs to be cautious about the type of people to work with.
Best
A. Mani
-- A. Mani CU, ASL, AMS, CLC, CMS http://www.logicamani.in -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 1:03 AM, María Leandro tatica@fedoraproject.org wrote:
To be honest, I don't have a huge believe into "woman groups" since that starts setting the line in the first place. It's true that a safe environment would be the best, however; is sounds a bit odd to say "hey, I want equality for everyone... but you must treat me well because I'ma girl".
It will definitely sound odd to strongly motivated and independent women from urban cosmopolitan milieus and that includes me.
We need to look at the larger picture ... not ourselves.
My experience might be a bit particular and even if we all know that there are fewer girls into IT, is not only because the environment, is because there are few, period. Just to place the example.
If you go to an IT class at any college/university; you might see that classroom is about 70% male and 30% female (depending on the specialty the number might vary); so, why do we want more female participation if it's obvious that numbers have never been equal?
Why did it become like that in the first place? If you are interested in developing human resources, then you need to look at sociological models ... not the ones big corporates use. We are also not targeting only IT people. People from any kind of background have the potential to do well in free s/w.
We can consider that the part that nobody likes to accept. Now; it's also true that environment (not everywhere but mostly) is not female-friendly just because that, from this small percent; some girls only come to feel desired and like goddess. The even smaller part that DO want to bring some change finds themselves hiding behind neutral nicknames, fighting the ocean of comments or just gets tired and helps other ways. Truth is that, if we want equality, we must fight to get it and even if the woman groups are an awesome place to share experiences and motivate participation, but that's it.
I guess a lot of people expect that support groups do something for them and forget that change is in our bare hands. What we can do with a women group at Fedora, I srsly don't know; but if each group that feels despised (aka; religion, ethnics, etc etc) starts creating a support group, then there will be 100 small groups not focusing into the large group that can actually make the change.
Affected people know nothing about support groups, their potential or possible solutions. They lead half-dead lives in darkness. It is due to systematic brainwashing. Even relatively more educated women do not manage to escape in India. For example you will find women with post graduate qualifications wasting enormous amounts of their time in hell holes as house-wives.
We follow a community-based developmental model and for us the more number of contributors and developers we have the merrier it will be. If you do not know how people of a particular part of a community are going to contribute, then how can you expect those people to contribute?
The world is not so rosy.
It also makes sense to work together with other kinds of support groups.
Groups with focus are better suited for development. The quality of a distro will improve immensely because of that. It is a fact that Fedora lacks many packages because of lack of focus for various communities (Even I need to compile a large number of packages from source).
Corporate developmental models will end up making Fedora a nursery for corporate robot development and so we should care.
Best
A. Mani
-- A. Mani CU, ASL, AMS, CLC, CMS http://www.logicamani.in
sorry, maybe I needed a bit more of context; LATAM situation with female participation is kind of new in what the rest of the world is.
2013/5/27 A. Mani a.mani.cms@gmail.com
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 1:03 AM, María Leandro tatica@fedoraproject.org wrote:
To be honest, I don't have a huge believe into "woman groups" since that starts setting the line in the first place. It's true that a safe environment would be the best, however; is sounds a bit odd to say "hey,
I
want equality for everyone... but you must treat me well because I'ma
girl".
It will definitely sound odd to strongly motivated and independent women from urban cosmopolitan milieus and that includes me.
We need to look at the larger picture ... not ourselves.
The fact that I'm not a huge believer doesn't mean I don't participate. I'm quite active in several local groups; however, the best way to include more women has been to make them feel like equals by example. As a personal experience i can say happily that at FLISoL (a latam event, quite huge) I started with a team of 1 in 2008, then gather a team of 10 at 2008 (all guys) but ended up with a team of 250 50% / 50% girls and boys.
However, it's quite easy to help women when you can interact with them in the same room; my critique goes mostly to that. As you like to see the large picture; most movements that had a larger impact have an insitu meeting; probably that's what we would need; probably a hackfest like ADA camp? (but more for people outside NA?)
My experience might be a bit particular and even if we all know that
there
are fewer girls into IT, is not only because the environment, is because there are few, period. Just to place the example.
If you go to an IT class at any college/university; you might see that classroom is about 70% male and 30% female (depending on the specialty
the
number might vary); so, why do we want more female participation if it's obvious that numbers have never been equal?
Why did it become like that in the first place? If you are interested in developing human resources, then you need to look at sociological models ... not the ones big corporates use. We are also not targeting only IT people. People from any kind of background have the potential to do well in free s/w.
No, we are not; however, I'm part of a distro and I help several apps and I definitely would love to see more women involved into the tech aspect; at the end, we are talking of a Linux group. Now, at least in latam, I could say that the number of female spreading the word has increased a LOT, same with Asia.
We can consider that the part that nobody likes to accept. Now; it's also true that environment (not everywhere but mostly) is not female-friendly just because that, from this small percent; some girls only come to feel desired and like goddess. The even smaller part that DO want to bring
some
change finds themselves hiding behind neutral nicknames, fighting the
ocean
of comments or just gets tired and helps other ways. Truth is that, if we want equality, we must fight to get it and even if the woman groups are
an
awesome place to share experiences and motivate participation, but that's it.
I guess a lot of people expect that support groups do something for them
and
forget that change is in our bare hands. What we can do with a women
group
at Fedora, I srsly don't know; but if each group that feels despised
(aka;
religion, ethnics, etc etc) starts creating a support group, then there
will
be 100 small groups not focusing into the large group that can actually
make
the change.
Affected people know nothing about support groups, their potential or possible solutions. They lead half-dead lives in darkness. It is due to systematic brainwashing. Even relatively more educated women do not manage to escape in India. For example you will find women with post graduate qualifications wasting enormous amounts of their time in hell holes as house-wives.
Oh, believe me.. it's quite the same in LATAM. A women can be considered an equal until the moment she gets married and has her first baby; however, there are no support groups for harassment here and probably won't be right now due laws; they simply don't care.
Now, the "ending as housewives" is something that society has more to do with; I guess a female group oriented to laws would be your target more than a female LUG.
We follow a community-based developmental model and for us the more number of contributors and developers we have the merrier it will be. If you do not know how people of a particular part of a community are going to contribute, then how can you expect those people to contribute?
The world is not so rosy.
It also makes sense to work together with other kinds of support groups.
Yes indeed, however, unless we start taking a bit of sand we won't be able to make the beach. I read you and I get the point of not having opportunities; believe me, I live in a country where we are completely excluded; however, when you want to activate a females LUG you can't solve world hunger; first baby steps and scaring people might not be the best way. As I have been saying, good examples and role models will make a difference.
Groups with focus are better suited for development. The quality of a distro will improve immensely because of that. It is a fact that Fedora lacks many packages because of lack of focus for various communities (Even I need to compile a large number of packages from source).
Corporate developmental models will end up making Fedora a nursery for corporate robot development and so we should care.
Even if I 50/50 agree with this part, this would be more a topic to discuss at FEmSCo, there have been large efforts into make Fedora more widely usable and those have been quite effective, however, I wouldn't like to see a "Fedora Hello Kitty" :)
Best
A. Mani
At the end I guess that discussing is the way to really create a guidelines that will allow us to really help and guide women and provide a healthy environment where we all (female, gay, religion and skin color) don't suffer from exclusion.
-- A. Mani CU, ASL, AMS, CLC, CMS http://www.logicamani.in -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
El lun, 27-05-2013 a las 17:57 -0430, María Leandro escribió:
sorry, maybe I needed a bit more of context; LATAM situation with female participation is kind of new in what the rest of the world is.
This topic is very complex in nature. First most of us are related to technology which means that we have some level of income. The difference from urban to rural are really abismal in much countries. Some time just across neighborhoods. Some clueless NGO are talking about female empowerment when people are struggling for food, so what we will address in such context with free software.
I have high hopes for OLPC project, but again what children are obtaining from having a XO is very different from urban to rural.
There are some things that we also forget, line of time. When I went to college, was long time ago. When I go to colleges now to speak about Fedora, ratio female-male it is different from old days. Free software are usually start ups that are built on spare time that most likely women does not have because they are supporting their family in house work.
Most important we are speaking about average, that does not meant that are that were fostered in a way that they did not grow with this female-male dichotomy. So you can find very sensitive concerned males about this issue. And also you can find overconfident females that dismiss this issue.
I will like to have issues like this on ambassador list. What we will accomplished as ambassadors if we don't learn how better engage with our audience. How to be sensitive to some topics and never give them for granted.
Hello all.
This thread, impressively talks about women and yet, is being held by a 95% of men. Probably you would do a better job if, instead wondering how women feel and what they might nor not do in an IT environment, if you took a minute to ask directly to the awesome women that we have in our community how they manage to contribute and yet, being awesome wifes/mothers/etc.
At India-women mail list we already recommend Mani to create a group more focused into worldwide female issues and discrimination since the ones of us who were reading her lately didn't felt that her bigger view was part of our believes, and since this is a free-of-speech environment, the best we can do is to help Mani to have this more focused group; however, this is far from what Fedora scope is. You are more than welcome to join the India-Women mail list and continue from there.
Now, to Fedora and ambassadors concerns; as some of you might know, I will be giving a talk at Flock (which I hope to be more like a debate and workshop) about women in Fedora (around the world, so all of us can learn about different stuff that happens depending on your region) and hopefully, in that talk, man can have a more real idea of what a women really have to live (the good and the bad) instead wondering what would be the best for us. Fedora women has been technically dead for a long time and the idea is not to revive the group, but to give it a real purpose and a guidelines + role models, instead creating rules on "how man have to treat women" or "how women have to react". Rules usually tend to make people get scared, so the idea is more to offer support.
I'm glad to see the interest, however, I'm sad to see that people only raise their voices when polemic strikes and not on the daily base of how women do on the IT world.
2013/6/2 Neville A. Cross neville@taygon.com
El lun, 27-05-2013 a las 17:57 -0430, María Leandro escribió:
sorry, maybe I needed a bit more of context; LATAM situation with female participation is kind of new in what the rest of the world is.
This topic is very complex in nature. First most of us are related to technology which means that we have some level of income. The difference from urban to rural are really abismal in much countries. Some time just across neighborhoods. Some clueless NGO are talking about female empowerment when people are struggling for food, so what we will address in such context with free software.
I have high hopes for OLPC project, but again what children are obtaining from having a XO is very different from urban to rural.
There are some things that we also forget, line of time. When I went to college, was long time ago. When I go to colleges now to speak about Fedora, ratio female-male it is different from old days. Free software are usually start ups that are built on spare time that most likely women does not have because they are supporting their family in house work.
Most important we are speaking about average, that does not meant that are that were fostered in a way that they did not grow with this female-male dichotomy. So you can find very sensitive concerned males about this issue. And also you can find overconfident females that dismiss this issue.
I will like to have issues like this on ambassador list. What we will accomplished as ambassadors if we don't learn how better engage with our audience. How to be sensitive to some topics and never give them for granted.
-- Neville https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v Linux User # 473217
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
On Tue, 2013-05-28 at 03:13 +0530, A. Mani wrote: <snip>
Best
Mani,
We'll love to support you. How about you make some concrete suggestions on what you think we should do?
The one actual action item from the entire thread seems to be:
- Package software that can be used by NGOs etc. and maybe make a spin these bodies can use. I don't see what's keeping this. If you're already compiling them from source like you've mentioned, why not make an rpm instead and make it easier for yourself and others?
What else?
Can I please request you to stick to a problem and solution format? You should focus on specific issues and how they can be handled so it's easy for the entire community to understand and then think about.
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Ankur Sinha sanjay.ankur@gmail.com wrote:
Mani
,
We'll love to support you. How about you make some concrete suggestions on what you think we should do?
Normally my responses would be extremely concrete, but here I had to get possible specs and approaches of locale specific bodies discussed first. Just because I know how the state of affairs is does not mean that I can rush with concrete plans.
The one actual action item from the entire thread seems to be:
- Package software that can be used by NGOs etc. and maybe make a spin
these bodies can use. I don't see what's keeping this.
Specs are never that simple and in this case the rationale, content, UI all need to be discussed first. If people do not understand the dynamics of different feminist movements then they will not be able to understand the rationale.
More of this are in a thread on 'Ubuntu Feminism Edition' at https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/wfs-india/CDQje... My original post in this thread was far less specific.
A spin in Fedora with Fedora branding apparently has more restrictions involved.
If you're already compiling them from source like you've mentioned, why not make an rpm instead and make it easier for yourself and others?
I did not mean that particular s/w under discussion,
What else?
Can I please request you to stick to a problem and solution format? You should focus on specific issues and how they can be handled so it's easy for the entire community to understand and then think about.
Fine, the other thing that got mixed was the revival of Fedora-women and related concrete plans at the local level :)
But all these are linked.
I will post the final specs (with limited sociological rationale) soon.
Best
A. Mani
-- A. Mani CU, ASL, AMS, CLC, CMS http://www.logicamani.in
Hi,
I get tired of this why you don't discuss this on the fedora-woman mailing list?
br gnokii
2013/5/28 A. Mani a.mani.cms@gmail.com
On Tue, May 28, 2013 at 6:09 AM, Ankur Sinha sanjay.ankur@gmail.com wrote:
Mani
,
We'll love to support you. How about you make some concrete suggestions on what you think we should do?
Normally my responses would be extremely concrete, but here I had to get possible specs and approaches of locale specific bodies discussed first. Just because I know how the state of affairs is does not mean that I can rush with concrete plans.
The one actual action item from the entire thread seems to be:
- Package software that can be used by NGOs etc. and maybe make a spin
these bodies can use. I don't see what's keeping this.
Specs are never that simple and in this case the rationale, content, UI all need to be discussed first. If people do not understand the dynamics of different feminist movements then they will not be able to understand the rationale.
More of this are in a thread on 'Ubuntu Feminism Edition' at
https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=en&fromgroups#!topic/wfs-india/CDQje... My original post in this thread was far less specific.
A spin in Fedora with Fedora branding apparently has more restrictions involved.
If you're already compiling them from source like you've mentioned, why not make an rpm instead and make it easier for yourself and others?
I did not mean that particular s/w under discussion,
What else?
Can I please request you to stick to a problem and solution format? You should focus on specific issues and how they can be handled so it's easy for the entire community to understand and then think about.
Fine, the other thing that got mixed was the revival of Fedora-women and related concrete plans at the local level :)
But all these are linked.
I will post the final specs (with limited sociological rationale) soon.
Best
A. Mani
-- A. Mani CU, ASL, AMS, CLC, CMS http://www.logicamani.in -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
On Tue, 2013-05-28 at 10:33 +0200, S.Kemter wrote:
Hi,
I get tired of this why you don't discuss this on the fedora-woman mailing list?
Maybe because as A. Mani mentioned, the Fedora-Women initiative seems to be dead? (Note: I don't know about it, I am basing this on her earlier email)
As such, discussing on a dead list will probably not be the best way to revive it, compared to discussing it on the "next best" active list.
And because the discussion is related to the promotion of Fedora to women both as users and contributors, the Ambassadors list certainly seems like the next best list.
A. Mani, please go on discussing here the issues you see with regards to encouraging women to participate in Fedora, and the work you do to improve the situation.
I, for one, find it very à propos for this list.
On Tue, 2013-05-28 at 16:45 +0800, Mathieu Bridon wrote:
On Tue, 2013-05-28 at 10:33 +0200, S.Kemter wrote:
Hi,
I get tired of this why you don't discuss this on the fedora-woman mailing list?
Maybe because as A. Mani mentioned, the Fedora-Women initiative seems to be dead? (Note: I don't know about it, I am basing this on her earlier email)
As such, discussing on a dead list will probably not be the best way to revive it, compared to discussing it on the "next best" active list.
And because the discussion is related to the promotion of Fedora to women both as users and contributors, the Ambassadors list certainly seems like the next best list.
A. Mani, please go on discussing here the issues you see with regards to encouraging women to participate in Fedora, and the work you do to improve the situation.
I, for one, find it very à propos for this list.
Make that two.
Pierre
2.- Because spread into women is also considered an ambassador task?
I think this kind of answers is the first motive why most of the people doesn't even dare to raise a topic. We should stat considering be a bit more polite with those people that can bring arguments interesting enough to make a change for better.
Mani; I'm up to have a following discussion over IRC (and I'm sure FranciscoD will be there), irc is #fedora-women at freenode, catch me at anytime.
See ya
2013/5/28 Pierre-Yves Chibon pingou@pingoured.fr
On Tue, 2013-05-28 at 16:45 +0800, Mathieu Bridon wrote:
On Tue, 2013-05-28 at 10:33 +0200, S.Kemter wrote:
Hi,
I get tired of this why you don't discuss this on the fedora-woman
mailing
list?
Maybe because as A. Mani mentioned, the Fedora-Women initiative seems to be dead? (Note: I don't know about it, I am basing this on her earlier email)
As such, discussing on a dead list will probably not be the best way to revive it, compared to discussing it on the "next best" active list.
And because the discussion is related to the promotion of Fedora to women both as users and contributors, the Ambassadors list certainly seems like the next best list.
A. Mani, please go on discussing here the issues you see with regards to encouraging women to participate in Fedora, and the work you do to improve the situation.
I, for one, find it very à propos for this list.
Make that two.
Pierre
ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
On Tue, 2013-05-28 at 08:58 -0430, María Leandro wrote:
2.- Because spread into women is also considered an ambassador task?
I think this kind of answers is the first motive why most of the people doesn't even dare to raise a topic. We should stat considering be a bit more polite with those people that can bring arguments interesting enough to make a change for better.
Mani; I'm up to have a following discussion over IRC (and I'm sure FranciscoD will be there), irc is #fedora-women at freenode, catch me at anytime.
Please do report the output of the discussion here, although silent I'm know I'm not the only one interested in the topic.
Thanks, Pierre
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
-
A. Mani -
Ankur Sinha -
María Leandro -
Mathieu Bridon -
Neville A. Cross -
nitesh narayan lal -
Pierre-Yves Chibon -
S.Kemter