On Fri, 2007-03-16 at 11:02 -0700, Thomas Chung wrote:

On 3/16/07, Thomas Canniot thomas.canniot@laposte.net wrote:

...

Well, I don't know if translating a licence can be considered as valid. In French, a licence / law translation is not considered as valid due to numerous misinterpretations.

True. I would suggest to check with Max and Red Hat Legal Counsel.

We've discussed the translation of legal content before.

The problem is more than just one of languages. Laws must be translated (interpreted), and in many cases, the legal provisions may not apply the same in all countries.

That is the main catch -- a language /= a country. The CLA, for example, is written to be legally binding in only one country, despite how many countries speak/read English as a primary language.

A process to translate documents so they could be legally useful (or even binding) might look like this:

1. Trusted translators make initial translation - For Red Hat, it might be best if they used their translation staff 2. The original and translation are read by a lawyer who reads both languages, who understands the original documents intents, and who understands the local laws. This person most likely needs to be licensed to practice law in the target country. 3. Iterate. 4. Result - one, new, translated document that is legally binding in one new country.

If you want to take the translation and apply it to another country, start from Step 2. and proceed.

The cost per country is not-trivial.

Anyway, the main point is, this is not something Fedora can do. We don't have lawyers or resources to hire foreign lawyers.

- Karsten

Mirjam Wäckerlin wrote:

Hello,

I understand the legal problems translations would impose. Though, I think the solution of Fabian is a great idea - to translate CLA by professional translators and add one or two sentences like he did to clarify that only the english original is legally binding. I'd say that my english is of course not perfect, but for a non-native speaker quite ok, but I found it rather exhausting to really understand what I am actually signing. How hard must it be for other people, and how may are signing CLA without knowing what they're signing? We have to consider that some people may also give up on joining the project because they don't want to sign something they don't understand completely.

I think it's much more important to actually KNOW what you're signing, while being aware that only the original english text is the basis of the contract.

Of course, what Karsten propose would be the perfect solution for everyone.

The question is: Since we don't have the means to make the perfect solution possible, Is there any chance that RedHat could support us in this? If there is no way to get this solution in a timely manner, I think what Fabian did is the second best solution and we should continue along his track.

See https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2007-March/msg00191.ht...

Rahul

Thomas Canniot schrieb:

Well, I don't know if translating a licence can be considered as valid. In French, a licence / law translation is not considered as valid due to numerous misinterpretations.

It's a translation of a very complex text and in my eyes it's haven't to be vaild (see below). It's hard to understand even in german. For non-english speaking constributor it's the only way to become an impression of the content of CLA.

The translator has made it clear in the into:

"Als Grundlage für einen Vertrag gilt ausschliesslich die englischsprachige Originalversion des CLA."

"The basis for a contract is considered exclusively the english original version of the CLA."

and at the end:

"Diese Übersetzung ist kein rechtskräftiger Ersatz für die englischsprachige Originalversion."

"This translation is not a valid replacement for the english original version."

regards,

Fabian

On Friday 16 March 2007, Rahul Sundaram wrote:

To add to that, you can add a prominent disclaimer on top "In case of a contradiction between the Official English version of the contributory license agreement and the community German translation, the English version must be considered authoritative. This translation is only available to help German users understand the CLA and must not be considered as a legal document". In German of course.

+1

Also, note that contributors will eventually have to agree to the original English document. The German translation will not be delivered by the Account System and can only serve as a reference.