Hi everyone
Perhaps this is not news anymore but it seems the relevance of the Ambassadors Programme is in doubt. There is a Mindshare Ticket probing for role of Fedora Ambassadors in 2019 and best use of resources/time/energy (https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145)
Have you seen it? What are your thoughts? Are we jaded?
Say something ... here, there. Perhaps I am hanging on to an old concept -- the nostalgia must have been too strong.
Regards Onyeibo
Hey Onyeibo, thx for stepping up.
I've tried to put my input into the ticket as much as possible. I'm currently working on a couple of small strategies to reach out to those inactive Ambassadors and get their perspective, tho I don't have that much free time this week.
It's part of the IT nature that some things come and go in different times, however, this particular initiative, at least for me, represents the highlight of what being a top contributor should be. I'll keep trying to put my energy into the success of this Team, in hope that new and old ambassadors reactivate.
From my point of view, it's just a burn down of the program, and probably this can be a great opportunity for, instead shut the program down, reinvigorate it.
Hoping to hear from more of you.
El vie., 13 sept. 2019 a las 10:48, Onyeibo Oku (onyeibo@schemefusion.com) escribió:
Hi everyone
Perhaps this is not news anymore but it seems the relevance of the Ambassadors Programme is in doubt. There is a Mindshare Ticket probing for role of Fedora Ambassadors in 2019 and best use of resources/time/energy (https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145)
Have you seen it? What are your thoughts? Are we jaded?
Say something ... here, there. Perhaps I am hanging on to an old concept -- the nostalgia must have been too strong.
Regards Onyeibo _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
Hi Folks, so this ticket[0] is active again and looks like there might be a decision at the end of this. We need to hear what your thoughts are. Please consider taking a little bit of time to read the comments, write if you can think of something relevant. *would be great if you can do it before next mindshare meeting* i.e on wednesday 1730 UTC.
[0] https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145
---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com Date: Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 8:18 PM Subject: [Ambassadors] The Fate of Ambassador Programme To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
Hi everyone
Perhaps this is not news anymore but it seems the relevance of the Ambassadors Programme is in doubt. There is a Mindshare Ticket probing for role of Fedora Ambassadors in 2019 and best use of resources/time/energy (https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145)
Have you seen it? What are your thoughts? Are we jaded?
Say something ... here, there. Perhaps I am hanging on to an old concept -- the nostalgia must have been too strong.
Regards Onyeibo _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
Hi!
My experience as ambassador was bad, but hey! I like the work.
No clear guidance, no visibility, no recognition and no clear ways to measure import of our work. All in my experience as Ambassador and newcommer to Fedora :(
But I have hope for things to be better.
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653721
Atte: Martín Josemaría Vuelta Rojas _______________________________________________________ E-mail: martin.vuelta@gmail.com Web : martin.vuelta.me
* Facultad de Ciencias Físicas Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos
El jue., 21 may. 2020 a las 21:14, Vipul Siddharth (< siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>) escribió:
Hi Folks, so this ticket[0] is active again and looks like there might be a decision at the end of this. We need to hear what your thoughts are. Please consider taking a little bit of time to read the comments, write if you can think of something relevant. *would be great if you can do it before next mindshare meeting* i.e on wednesday 1730 UTC.
[0] https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145
---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com Date: Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 8:18 PM Subject: [Ambassadors] The Fate of Ambassador Programme To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
Hi everyone
Perhaps this is not news anymore but it seems the relevance of the Ambassadors Programme is in doubt. There is a Mindshare Ticket probing for role of Fedora Ambassadors in 2019 and best use of resources/time/energy (https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145)
Have you seen it? What are your thoughts? Are we jaded?
Say something ... here, there. Perhaps I am hanging on to an old concept -- the nostalgia must have been too strong.
Regards Onyeibo _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
-- Vipul Siddharth He/His/Him Fedora | CentOS CI Infrastructure Team Red Hat w: vipul.dev _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
Hi me too as a new comer ambassadors we need to change
Best regards. https://about.me/umarabdullahi
On 22 May 2020 7:15 AM, "Martín Josemaría" martin.vuelta@gmail.com wrote:
Hi!
My experience as ambassador was bad, but hey! I like the work.
No clear guidance, no visibility, no recognition and no clear ways to measure import of our work. All in my experience as Ambassador and newcommer to Fedora :(
But I have hope for things to be better.
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653721
Atte: Martín Josemaría Vuelta Rojas _______________________________________________________ E-mail: martin.vuelta@gmail.com Web : martin.vuelta.me
- Facultad de Ciencias Físicas
Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos
El jue., 21 may. 2020 a las 21:14, Vipul Siddharth (< siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>) escribió:
Hi Folks, so this ticket[0] is active again and looks like there might be a decision at the end of this. We need to hear what your thoughts are. Please consider taking a little bit of time to read the comments, write if you can think of something relevant. *would be great if you can do it before next mindshare meeting* i.e on wednesday 1730 UTC.
[0] https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145
---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com Date: Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 8:18 PM Subject: [Ambassadors] The Fate of Ambassador Programme To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
Hi everyone
Perhaps this is not news anymore but it seems the relevance of the Ambassadors Programme is in doubt. There is a Mindshare Ticket probing for role of Fedora Ambassadors in 2019 and best use of resources/time/energy (https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145)
Have you seen it? What are your thoughts? Are we jaded?
Say something ... here, there. Perhaps I am hanging on to an old concept -- the nostalgia must have been too strong.
Regards Onyeibo _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@ lists.fedoraproject.org
-- Vipul Siddharth He/His/Him Fedora | CentOS CI Infrastructure Team Red Hat w: vipul.dev _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject. org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@ lists.fedoraproject.org
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject. org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@ lists.fedoraproject.org
Hi,
I want to say that... when I try to be ambassador I don't have too much feedback. I had tried too contact with 7 mentors but one of them sent to me an email because the time passed between mail to mail more less 1-2 weeks. So I take more less 2 months to get a reply.
What's differences does have mentors with ambassadors? Maybe we can flexible this way.
We can do an "exam" about Fedora knowledge. If you pass the exam, you would be an ambassador sponsor ship.
On Fri, May 22, 2020, 10:41 AM Umar Parooq umarbrowser20@gmail.com wrote:
Hi me too as a new comer ambassadors we need to change
Best regards. https://about.me/umarabdullahi
On 22 May 2020 7:15 AM, "Martín Josemaría" martin.vuelta@gmail.com wrote:
Hi!
My experience as ambassador was bad, but hey! I like the work.
No clear guidance, no visibility, no recognition and no clear ways to measure import of our work. All in my experience as Ambassador and newcommer to Fedora :(
But I have hope for things to be better.
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653721
Atte: Martín Josemaría Vuelta Rojas _______________________________________________________ E-mail: martin.vuelta@gmail.com Web : martin.vuelta.me
- Facultad de Ciencias Físicas
Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos
El jue., 21 may. 2020 a las 21:14, Vipul Siddharth (< siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>) escribió:
Hi Folks, so this ticket[0] is active again and looks like there might be a decision at the end of this. We need to hear what your thoughts are. Please consider taking a little bit of time to read the comments, write if you can think of something relevant. *would be great if you can do it before next mindshare meeting* i.e on wednesday 1730 UTC.
[0] https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145
---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com Date: Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 8:18 PM Subject: [Ambassadors] The Fate of Ambassador Programme To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
Hi everyone
Perhaps this is not news anymore but it seems the relevance of the Ambassadors Programme is in doubt. There is a Mindshare Ticket probing for role of Fedora Ambassadors in 2019 and best use of resources/time/energy (https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145)
Have you seen it? What are your thoughts? Are we jaded?
Say something ... here, there. Perhaps I am hanging on to an old concept -- the nostalgia must have been too strong.
Regards Onyeibo _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
-- Vipul Siddharth He/His/Him Fedora | CentOS CI Infrastructure Team Red Hat w: vipul.dev _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
Good day Fedorians,
I think like Alvaro. I don't remeber how many time I needed to be a Ambassador, but more than 2 months to have all of steps and resolve all the questions. Only one mentor of the list repled my request, Daniel Lara (🙏 ). I don't know the real motive of the rest, maybe lack of motivation? We need a change, because Fedora need the best community and I will try to do the best of my hands to get it.
BR,
CPO
El 22 may 2020, a las 14:34, Álvaro Castillo sincorchetes@fedoraproject.org escribió:
Hi,
I want to say that... when I try to be ambassador I don't have too much feedback. I had tried too contact with 7 mentors but one of them sent to me an email because the time passed between mail to mail more less 1-2 weeks. So I take more less 2 months to get a reply.
What's differences does have mentors with ambassadors? Maybe we can flexible this way.
We can do an "exam" about Fedora knowledge. If you pass the exam, you would be an ambassador sponsor ship.
On Fri, May 22, 2020, 10:41 AM Umar Parooq <umarbrowser20@gmail.com mailto:umarbrowser20@gmail.com> wrote: Hi me too as a new comer ambassadors we need to change
Best regards. https://about.me/umarabdullahi https://about.me/umarabdullahi
On 22 May 2020 7:15 AM, "Martín Josemaría" <martin.vuelta@gmail.com mailto:martin.vuelta@gmail.com> wrote: Hi!
My experience as ambassador was bad, but hey! I like the work.
No clear guidance, no visibility, no recognition and no clear ways to measure import of our work. All in my experience as Ambassador and newcommer to Fedora :(
But I have hope for things to be better.
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653721 https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653721
Atte: Martín Josemaría Vuelta Rojas _______________________________________________________ E-mail: martin.vuelta@gmail.com mailto:martin.vuelta@gmail.com Web : martin.vuelta.me https://martin.vuelta.me/
- Facultad de Ciencias Físicas
Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos
El jue., 21 may. 2020 a las 21:14, Vipul Siddharth (<siddharthvipul1@gmail.com mailto:siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>) escribió: Hi Folks, so this ticket[0] is active again and looks like there might be a decision at the end of this. We need to hear what your thoughts are. Please consider taking a little bit of time to read the comments, write if you can think of something relevant. *would be great if you can do it before next mindshare meeting* i.e on wednesday 1730 UTC.
[0] https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145 https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145
---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Onyeibo Oku <onyeibo@schemefusion.com mailto:onyeibo@schemefusion.com> Date: Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 8:18 PM Subject: [Ambassadors] The Fate of Ambassador Programme To: <ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Hi everyone
Perhaps this is not news anymore but it seems the relevance of the Ambassadors Programme is in doubt. There is a Mindshare Ticket probing for role of Fedora Ambassadors in 2019 and best use of resources/time/energy (https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145 https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145)
Have you seen it? What are your thoughts? Are we jaded?
Say something ... here, there. Perhaps I am hanging on to an old concept -- the nostalgia must have been too strong.
Regards Onyeibo _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec... https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
-- Vipul Siddharth He/His/Him Fedora | CentOS CI Infrastructure Team Red Hat w: vipul.dev http://vipul.dev/ _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec... https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec... https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org mailto:ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec... https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
First of all we need to sort the email issues. For a long time which we are trying to solve. But still not sorted. Then everyone will be active again.
Regards Dilip Khanolkar +91 9833018122
On Fri, 22 May, 2020, 8:36 PM Christian Prada Osuna, cprada87@gmail.com wrote:
Good day Fedorians,
I think like Alvaro. I don't remeber how many time I needed to be a Ambassador, but more than 2 months to have all of steps and resolve all the questions. Only one mentor of the list repled my request, Daniel Lara (🙏 ). I don't know the real motive of the rest, maybe lack of motivation? We need a change, because Fedora need the best community and I will try to do the best of my hands to get it.
BR,
CPO
El 22 may 2020, a las 14:34, Álvaro Castillo < sincorchetes@fedoraproject.org> escribió:
Hi,
I want to say that... when I try to be ambassador I don't have too much feedback. I had tried too contact with 7 mentors but one of them sent to me an email because the time passed between mail to mail more less 1-2 weeks. So I take more less 2 months to get a reply.
What's differences does have mentors with ambassadors? Maybe we can flexible this way.
We can do an "exam" about Fedora knowledge. If you pass the exam, you would be an ambassador sponsor ship.
On Fri, May 22, 2020, 10:41 AM Umar Parooq umarbrowser20@gmail.com wrote:
Hi me too as a new comer ambassadors we need to change
Best regards. https://about.me/umarabdullahi
On 22 May 2020 7:15 AM, "Martín Josemaría" martin.vuelta@gmail.com wrote:
Hi!
My experience as ambassador was bad, but hey! I like the work.
No clear guidance, no visibility, no recognition and no clear ways to measure import of our work. All in my experience as Ambassador and newcommer to Fedora :(
But I have hope for things to be better.
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653721
Atte: Martín Josemaría Vuelta Rojas _______________________________________________________ E-mail: martin.vuelta@gmail.com Web : martin.vuelta.me
- Facultad de Ciencias Físicas
Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos
El jue., 21 may. 2020 a las 21:14, Vipul Siddharth (< siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>) escribió:
Hi Folks, so this ticket[0] is active again and looks like there might be a decision at the end of this. We need to hear what your thoughts are. Please consider taking a little bit of time to read the comments, write if you can think of something relevant. *would be great if you can do it before next mindshare meeting* i.e on wednesday 1730 UTC.
[0] https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145
---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com Date: Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 8:18 PM Subject: [Ambassadors] The Fate of Ambassador Programme To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
Hi everyone
Perhaps this is not news anymore but it seems the relevance of the Ambassadors Programme is in doubt. There is a Mindshare Ticket probing for role of Fedora Ambassadors in 2019 and best use of resources/time/energy (https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145)
Have you seen it? What are your thoughts? Are we jaded?
Say something ... here, there. Perhaps I am hanging on to an old concept -- the nostalgia must have been too strong.
Regards Onyeibo _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
-- Vipul Siddharth He/His/Him Fedora | CentOS CI Infrastructure Team Red Hat w: vipul.dev _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 11:36 PM beta tester khanolkardilip@gmail.com wrote:
First of all we need to sort the email issues. For a long time which we are trying to solve. But still not sorted. Then everyone will be active again.
Could you explain what issue again?
Regards Dilip Khanolkar +91 9833018122
On Fri, 22 May, 2020, 8:36 PM Christian Prada Osuna, cprada87@gmail.com wrote:
Good day Fedorians,
I think like Alvaro. I don't remeber how many time I needed to be a Ambassador, but more than 2 months to have all of steps and resolve all the questions. Only one mentor of the list repled my request, Daniel Lara (🙏 ). I don't know the real motive of the rest, maybe lack of motivation? We need a change, because Fedora need the best community and I will try to do the best of my hands to get it.
BR,
CPO
El 22 may 2020, a las 14:34, Álvaro Castillo < sincorchetes@fedoraproject.org> escribió:
Hi,
I want to say that... when I try to be ambassador I don't have too much feedback. I had tried too contact with 7 mentors but one of them sent to me an email because the time passed between mail to mail more less 1-2 weeks. So I take more less 2 months to get a reply.
What's differences does have mentors with ambassadors? Maybe we can flexible this way.
We can do an "exam" about Fedora knowledge. If you pass the exam, you would be an ambassador sponsor ship.
On Fri, May 22, 2020, 10:41 AM Umar Parooq umarbrowser20@gmail.com wrote:
Hi me too as a new comer ambassadors we need to change
Best regards. https://about.me/umarabdullahi
On 22 May 2020 7:15 AM, "Martín Josemaría" martin.vuelta@gmail.com wrote:
Hi!
My experience as ambassador was bad, but hey! I like the work.
No clear guidance, no visibility, no recognition and no clear ways to measure import of our work. All in my experience as Ambassador and newcommer to Fedora :(
But I have hope for things to be better.
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653721
Atte: Martín Josemaría Vuelta Rojas _______________________________________________________ E-mail: martin.vuelta@gmail.com Web : martin.vuelta.me
- Facultad de Ciencias Físicas
Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos
El jue., 21 may. 2020 a las 21:14, Vipul Siddharth (< siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>) escribió:
Hi Folks, so this ticket[0] is active again and looks like there might be a decision at the end of this. We need to hear what your thoughts are. Please consider taking a little bit of time to read the comments, write if you can think of something relevant. *would be great if you can do it before next mindshare meeting* i.e on wednesday 1730 UTC.
[0] https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145
---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com Date: Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 8:18 PM Subject: [Ambassadors] The Fate of Ambassador Programme To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
Hi everyone
Perhaps this is not news anymore but it seems the relevance of the Ambassadors Programme is in doubt. There is a Mindshare Ticket probing for role of Fedora Ambassadors in 2019 and best use of resources/time/energy (https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145)
Have you seen it? What are your thoughts? Are we jaded?
Say something ... here, there. Perhaps I am hanging on to an old concept -- the nostalgia must have been too strong.
Regards Onyeibo _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
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Hello all,
Christian and Alvaro... Personally, I would gladly mentor people if that helps. But I don't know how to become a mentor and I couldn't find information about it. I think that's one problem. If mentors stop working or are too busy to mentor or even reply an email, there's no clear way for others to step up. I also think that maybe using some sort of test or making it easier for ambassadors to become mentors would help. Maybe instead of mentors there could be some sort of tutor. You have a test or exam, someone helps you in case you have questions or doubts, and then you take the test. If you pass you're in, if you don't good luck and try again in x amount of time.
Just a thought.
Kind regards, Lailah
On Fri, 22 May 2020 at 17:06, Christian Prada Osuna cprada87@gmail.com wrote:
Good day Fedorians,
I think like Alvaro. I don't remeber how many time I needed to be a Ambassador, but more than 2 months to have all of steps and resolve all the questions. Only one mentor of the list repled my request, Daniel Lara (🙏 ). I don't know the real motive of the rest, maybe lack of motivation? We need a change, because Fedora need the best community and I will try to do the best of my hands to get it.
BR,
CPO
El 22 may 2020, a las 14:34, Álvaro Castillo < sincorchetes@fedoraproject.org> escribió:
Hi,
I want to say that... when I try to be ambassador I don't have too much feedback. I had tried too contact with 7 mentors but one of them sent to me an email because the time passed between mail to mail more less 1-2 weeks. So I take more less 2 months to get a reply.
What's differences does have mentors with ambassadors? Maybe we can flexible this way.
We can do an "exam" about Fedora knowledge. If you pass the exam, you would be an ambassador sponsor ship.
On Fri, May 22, 2020, 10:41 AM Umar Parooq umarbrowser20@gmail.com wrote:
Hi me too as a new comer ambassadors we need to change
Best regards. https://about.me/umarabdullahi
On 22 May 2020 7:15 AM, "Martín Josemaría" martin.vuelta@gmail.com wrote:
Hi!
My experience as ambassador was bad, but hey! I like the work.
No clear guidance, no visibility, no recognition and no clear ways to measure import of our work. All in my experience as Ambassador and newcommer to Fedora :(
But I have hope for things to be better.
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653721
Atte: Martín Josemaría Vuelta Rojas _______________________________________________________ E-mail: martin.vuelta@gmail.com Web : martin.vuelta.me
- Facultad de Ciencias Físicas
Universidad Nacional Mayor de San Marcos
El jue., 21 may. 2020 a las 21:14, Vipul Siddharth (< siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>) escribió:
Hi Folks, so this ticket[0] is active again and looks like there might be a decision at the end of this. We need to hear what your thoughts are. Please consider taking a little bit of time to read the comments, write if you can think of something relevant. *would be great if you can do it before next mindshare meeting* i.e on wednesday 1730 UTC.
[0] https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145
---------- Forwarded message --------- From: Onyeibo Oku onyeibo@schemefusion.com Date: Fri, Sep 13, 2019 at 8:18 PM Subject: [Ambassadors] The Fate of Ambassador Programme To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
Hi everyone
Perhaps this is not news anymore but it seems the relevance of the Ambassadors Programme is in doubt. There is a Mindshare Ticket probing for role of Fedora Ambassadors in 2019 and best use of resources/time/energy (https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145)
Have you seen it? What are your thoughts? Are we jaded?
Say something ... here, there. Perhaps I am hanging on to an old concept -- the nostalgia must have been too strong.
Regards Onyeibo _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
-- Vipul Siddharth He/His/Him Fedora | CentOS CI Infrastructure Team Red Hat w: vipul.dev _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
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Hi Álvaro,
On 5/22/20 8:34 AM, Álvaro Castillo wrote:
What's differences does have mentors with ambassadors? Maybe we can flexible this way.
The Fedora Join SIG is doing excellent work on people-focused mentorship into the Fedora Community. Ankur Sinha (FranciscoD), a long-time Ambassador, is leading this work with a group of others:
https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-join-is-trying-a-new-people-f...
The blog post link mentions how to join the Join SIG. It would be great to have older community members participate as mentors in this group. There is experience in this group / mailing list that would make great additions to the Join SIG.
On Fri, May 22, 2020 at 5:22 PM Justin W. Flory (he/him) jflory7@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Álvaro,
Hi Flory,
I'm happy see here!
On 5/22/20 8:34 AM, Álvaro Castillo wrote:
What's differences does have mentors with ambassadors? Maybe we can flexible this way.
The Fedora Join SIG is doing excellent work on people-focused mentorship into the Fedora Community. Ankur Sinha (FranciscoD), a long-time Ambassador, is leading this work with a group of others:
https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-join-is-trying-a-new-people-f...
Yes, the problem is this step on this guide: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_choose_a_mentor maybe would be better remake the documentation or delete if it and old process to avoid to confuse people wasting time to find a mentor could be reply emails. I like this alternative do support every people from Join SIG of course. I think is more dynamic and you find there nice people.
The blog post link mentions how to join the Join SIG. It would be great to have older community members participate as mentors in this group. There is experience in this group / mailing list that would make great additions to the Join SIG.
Cheers!
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory (he/him) jwf.io TZ=America/New_York
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On 5/23/20 3:19 AM, Álvaro Castillo wrote:
Yes, the problem is this step on this guide: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_choose_a_mentor maybe would be better remake the documentation or delete if it and old process to avoid to confuse people wasting time to find a mentor could be reply emails. I like this alternative do support every people from Join SIG of course. I think is more dynamic and you find there nice people.
Do you think redirecting that wiki page to the Fedora Join SIG page is more useful? It is possible to redirect a Fedora Wiki page to a Fedora Docs page automatically.
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-join/
Hi Justin,
Yes, I don't made before because I don't think I can take this decision but I think would be fine.
Cheers!
On Sat, May 23, 2020, 4:53 PM Justin W. Flory (he/him) jflory7@gmail.com wrote:
On 5/23/20 3:19 AM, Álvaro Castillo wrote:
Yes, the problem is this step on this guide: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_choose_a_mentor maybe would be better remake the documentation or delete if it and old process to avoid to confuse people wasting time to find a mentor could be reply emails. I like this alternative do support every people from Join SIG of course. I think is more dynamic and you find there nice
people.
Do you think redirecting that wiki page to the Fedora Join SIG page is more useful? It is possible to redirect a Fedora Wiki page to a Fedora Docs page automatically.
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-join/
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory (he/him) jwf.io TZ=America/New_York
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On Sat, 2020-05-23 at 10:50 -0400, Justin W. Flory (he/him) wrote:
On 5/23/20 3:19 AM, Álvaro Castillo wrote:
Yes, the problem is this step on this guide: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_choose_a_mentor maybe would be better remake the documentation or delete if it and old
Do you think redirecting that wiki page to the Fedora Join SIG page is more useful? It is possible to redirect a Fedora Wiki page to a Fedora Docs page automatically.
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-join/
Wait a moment. This means that if someone would like to become an Ambassador, it should contact the Join SIG?
I mean, all the processes to become an ambassador remain the same as it was in the past, but the mentoring process should be done by people in the Join SIG?
Hey everyone,
I agree with Alessio here, The join SiG provides a person mentorship for newcomers and helps to bridge the gap between a Newcomer and the respective SiG he would like to be a part of.
We [Join SiG] would love to see you guys as mentors for newcomers who would like to become Advocates/Ambassadors in the future.
--- Nasir Hussain
On Sat, May 23, 2020 at 9:39 PM Alessio alciregi@posteo.net wrote:
On Sat, 2020-05-23 at 10:50 -0400, Justin W. Flory (he/him) wrote:
On 5/23/20 3:19 AM, Álvaro Castillo wrote:
Yes, the problem is this step on this guide: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_choose_a_mentor maybe would be better remake the documentation or delete if it and old
Do you think redirecting that wiki page to the Fedora Join SIG page is more useful? It is possible to redirect a Fedora Wiki page to a Fedora Docs page automatically.
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-join/
Wait a moment. This means that if someone would like to become an Ambassador, it should contact the Join SIG?
I mean, all the processes to become an ambassador remain the same as it was in the past, but the mentoring process should be done by people in the Join SIG? _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
* Alessio [23/05/2020 18:38] :
Wait a moment. This means that if someone would like to become an Ambassador, it should contact the Join SIG?
I think the plan is to:
a) Retire the Ambassador title b) Encourage people who want to promote Fedora at events to get in touch with Mindshare c) Put people who are just starting contributing to Fedora in contact with people from the Join SIG so that they can receive help, encouragement, ...
Emmanuel
Interesting
First off, if mentoring was the issue with Ambassador Programme then the Join SIG seems to be addressing that --although it might be helpful to find out what went wrong with the Ambassador's Mentor programme.
I tend to think being an Ambassador is much more than the mentoring process. It is mostly what happens after being mentored or after you Join.
How is the Join SIG managing the following?: 1. Event Planning 2. Fedora Representation in Events 3. Event Reporting 4. Fedora Representation in Local or Regional areas
Otherwise, is the fate of Ambassador programme already decided?
It would be interesting to know
Regards Onyeibo
Quoting "Justin W. Flory (he/him)" jflory7@gmail.com:
Hi Álvaro,
On 5/22/20 8:34 AM, Álvaro Castillo wrote:
What's differences does have mentors with ambassadors? Maybe we can flexible this way.
The Fedora Join SIG is doing excellent work on people-focused mentorship into the Fedora Community. Ankur Sinha (FranciscoD), a long-time Ambassador, is leading this work with a group of others:
https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-join-is-trying-a-new-people-f...
The blog post link mentions how to join the Join SIG. It would be great to have older community members participate as mentors in this group. There is experience in this group / mailing list that would make great additions to the Join SIG.
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory (he/him) jwf.io TZ=America/New_York
Hi, i am Ambassador since 2009. I know how do you feel, i have had the same problem. The mentoring is not the best. And although i am Ambassor sind 2009 i feel like a newbie,
So long Jens
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: onyeibo@schemefusion.com onyeibo@schemefusion.com Gesendet: Samstag, 23. Mai 2020 10:46 An: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org Betreff: [Ambassadors] Re: Fwd: The Fate of Ambassador Programme
Interesting
First off, if mentoring was the issue with Ambassador Programme then the Join SIG seems to be addressing that --although it might be helpful to find out what went wrong with the Ambassador's Mentor programme.
I tend to think being an Ambassador is much more than the mentoring process. It is mostly what happens after being mentored or after you Join.
How is the Join SIG managing the following?: 1. Event Planning 2. Fedora Representation in Events 3. Event Reporting 4. Fedora Representation in Local or Regional areas
Otherwise, is the fate of Ambassador programme already decided?
It would be interesting to know
Regards Onyeibo
Quoting "Justin W. Flory (he/him)" jflory7@gmail.com:
Hi Álvaro,
On 5/22/20 8:34 AM, Álvaro Castillo wrote:
What's differences does have mentors with ambassadors? Maybe we can flexible this way.
The Fedora Join SIG is doing excellent work on people-focused mentorship into the Fedora Community. Ankur Sinha (FranciscoD), a long-time Ambassador, is leading this work with a group of others:
https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/fedora-join-is-trying-a-new-pe ople-focused-workflow-for-newcomers/
The blog post link mentions how to join the Join SIG. It would be great to have older community members participate as mentors in this group. There is experience in this group / mailing list that would make great additions to the Join SIG.
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory (he/him) jwf.io TZ=America/New_York
_______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
Hi Onyeibo,
On 5/23/20 4:46 AM, onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
First off, if mentoring was the issue with Ambassador Programme then the Join SIG seems to be addressing that --although it might be helpful to find out what went wrong with the Ambassador's Mentor programme.
In the 2010's, Ambassador mentorship focused first on events. Sometimes mentors guided for other things in Fedora.
Today, the Join SIG focuses on general mentorship. The Join SIG can provide mentorship and guidance on planning events as an Advocate. They also provide mentorship on Fedora packaging as a Fedora Packager. The Join SIG might also point someone to translation or localization.
So, Ambassador mentorship and Join SIG mentorship are similar, but still unique. The Join SIG wasn't meant to replace Ambassadors. It was meant to provide general mentorship for anyone who wants to contribute to Fedora. This could be event organizing or something else.
I tend to think being an Ambassador is much more than the mentoring process. It is mostly what happens after being mentored or after you Join.
I agree!
How is the Join SIG managing the following?:
- Event Planning
- Fedora Representation in Events
- Event Reporting
- Fedora Representation in Local or Regional areas
Join SIG does not manage these things. This is what the Mindshare Committee manages (at least since 2018).
I want to call out two things:
1. Fedora Advocates 2. Marie Nordin's proposal for future of Ambassadors
First: In the last two years, Mindshare Committee tried to improve event organizing process. This is done through the Advocate program, managed by Mindshare Committee. I see this process working well for folks who use it. But I don't think we have done great at getting the word out:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/advocate/
Second: Marie Nordin (riecatnor) wrote a proposal for "Digital Ambassadors" and "Event Advocates". It is still under discussion but I encourage others to share their feedback on this proposal:
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653606
I like this path forward so far, but still thinking on it.
Am 23.05.20 um 19:09 schrieb Justin W. Flory (he/him):
In the 2010's, Ambassador mentorship focused first on events. Sometimes mentors guided for other things in Fedora.
i strongly disagree, i think for Ambassadors from 2006-2011 the mission was exactly more or less what the "Advocate" proposal suggested - for those who know Ambassadors will not be remembered as only event wranglers. But this is maybe more *my* wishful thinking, having put so much efforts into the group during that period ;)
I do not want to miss the past experience and do not regret anything, but we all moved on. If a new name "Advocate" is necessary to help people and leadership identify with the proposal, that is the logical step.
good luck & cheers
Joerg
full ack Joerg!
nothing more to add
cheers
Gerold
On 25.05.2020 11:00, Joerg Simon wrote:
Am 23.05.20 um 19:09 schrieb Justin W. Flory (he/him):
In the 2010's, Ambassador mentorship focused first on events. Sometimes mentors guided for other things in Fedora.
i strongly disagree, i think for Ambassadors from 2006-2011 the mission was exactly more or less what the "Advocate" proposal suggested - for those who know Ambassadors will not be remembered as only event wranglers. But this is maybe more *my* wishful thinking, having put so much efforts into the group during that period ;)
I do not want to miss the past experience and do not regret anything, but we all moved on. If a new name "Advocate" is necessary to help people and leadership identify with the proposal, that is the logical step.
good luck & cheers
Joerg
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
Hi,
It's time to say something to this. The ambassador program was sabotaged a while ago. All under the umbrella of more openess. The people who sabotaged it had just a little experience and only looking to get their own problems solved.
The ambassador program was once written with quality in mind that this was the right way you just have to look at openSUSE and that the totally openess of their ambassador program (have to look if they call it still that way) and what it brought them NOTHING
The idea behind the mentoring and therefore a selection for the quality made its sense, sure there been some shortages and nothing which could havent been solved. But it starts with undemocratic behavior in past FAmSCo elections, where people made part of this committee even they not been legitimate to be in it. Just study the FAmSCo tickets its all there.
It goes further for making the comment that I find that someone hasnt the skills to be a mentor I was kept away from using the IRC for a month. I made another comment which did lead to the disable of my FAS for while, I just said that a person should tell all parts of the story not just what suits her/his needs
What you expect from someone who comes in a ambassador meeting and says I work for RedHat and now you must make me ambassador, how nice we keep all logs so its provable.
And this person played a vital role in this changes! Why because there been trouble in become an Ambassador, and is was the own fault
When I have the opinion something should be changed, then I look first what the problems are and what things I want to keep and I try to understand why certain things are like they are. Very often they make sense then.
But nothing like was done.
There been addressed problems which never been problems at all
br gnokii
Justin W. Flory (he/him) jflory7@gmail.com schrieb am So., 24. Mai 2020, 00:09:
Hi Onyeibo,
On 5/23/20 4:46 AM, onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
First off, if mentoring was the issue with Ambassador Programme then the Join SIG seems to be addressing that --although it might be helpful to find out what went wrong with the Ambassador's Mentor programme.
In the 2010's, Ambassador mentorship focused first on events. Sometimes mentors guided for other things in Fedora.
Today, the Join SIG focuses on general mentorship. The Join SIG can provide mentorship and guidance on planning events as an Advocate. They also provide mentorship on Fedora packaging as a Fedora Packager. The Join SIG might also point someone to translation or localization.
So, Ambassador mentorship and Join SIG mentorship are similar, but still unique. The Join SIG wasn't meant to replace Ambassadors. It was meant to provide general mentorship for anyone who wants to contribute to Fedora. This could be event organizing or something else.
I tend to think being an Ambassador is much more than the mentoring process. It is mostly what happens after being mentored or after you
Join.
I agree!
How is the Join SIG managing the following?:
- Event Planning
- Fedora Representation in Events
- Event Reporting
- Fedora Representation in Local or Regional areas
Join SIG does not manage these things. This is what the Mindshare Committee manages (at least since 2018).
I want to call out two things:
- Fedora Advocates
- Marie Nordin's proposal for future of Ambassadors
First: In the last two years, Mindshare Committee tried to improve event organizing process. This is done through the Advocate program, managed by Mindshare Committee. I see this process working well for folks who use it. But I don't think we have done great at getting the word out:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/advocate/
Second: Marie Nordin (riecatnor) wrote a proposal for "Digital Ambassadors" and "Event Advocates". It is still under discussion but I encourage others to share their feedback on this proposal:
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653606
I like this path forward so far, but still thinking on it.
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory (he/him) jwf.io TZ=America/New_York
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 10:44 AM S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
It's time to say something to this. The ambassador program was sabotaged a while ago. All under the umbrella of more openess. The people who sabotaged it had just a little experience and only looking to get their own problems solved.
The ambassador program was once written with quality in mind that this was the right way you just have to look at openSUSE and that the totally openess of their ambassador program (have to look if they call it still that way) and what it brought them NOTHING
The idea behind the mentoring and therefore a selection for the quality made its sense, sure there been some shortages and nothing which could havent been solved. But it starts with undemocratic behavior in past FAmSCo elections, where people made part of this committee even they not been legitimate to be in it. Just study the FAmSCo tickets its all there.
It goes further for making the comment that I find that someone hasnt the skills to be a mentor I was kept away from using the IRC for a month. I made another comment which did lead to the disable of my FAS for while, I just said that a person should tell all parts of the story not just what suits her/his needs
What you expect from someone who comes in a ambassador meeting and says I work for RedHat and now you must make me ambassador, how nice we keep all logs so its provable.
I don't know the history here and don't want to get drawn into politics that I know nothing about. I want to comment on my experience of the Ambassador program as someone who works for Red Hat. My role as the CPE Manager means I could have easily reached out to my own team or folks I know in the Council to force push me as an Ambassador. I opted to go through the process of seeking a mentor and following the documented steps to become an Ambassador. I sent 8 different emails over the period of 6 months and got 1 mail bounce. I got one reply in January but we were both too busy and we never got a chance to reconnect. I tried to ping some of the folks on IRC but got no replies. I sent a request in September or so to join the Ambassador mailing list and it was accepted in April. I have plenty of opportunities to learn more about the project through my day job but I wanted to down this route to get more familiarity with how the program works and how we are trying to attract people into the Community. It's an awful experience if I am being honest and the overall program needs an overhaul. Folks with the Ambassador title but whom are inactive or unable to help out (which is totally fine as life is life) should be able to step back and have an emeritus style title to allow newcomers figure out who they can reach out to and get the mentorship they need.
And this person played a vital role in this changes! Why because there been trouble in become an Ambassador, and is was the own fault
When I have the opinion something should be changed, then I look first what the problems are and what things I want to keep and I try to understand why certain things are like they are. Very often they make sense then.
But nothing like was done.
There been addressed problems which never been problems at all
br gnokii
Justin W. Flory (he/him) jflory7@gmail.com schrieb am So., 24. Mai 2020, 00:09:
Hi Onyeibo,
On 5/23/20 4:46 AM, onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
First off, if mentoring was the issue with Ambassador Programme then the Join SIG seems to be addressing that --although it might be helpful to find out what went wrong with the Ambassador's Mentor programme.
In the 2010's, Ambassador mentorship focused first on events. Sometimes mentors guided for other things in Fedora.
Today, the Join SIG focuses on general mentorship. The Join SIG can provide mentorship and guidance on planning events as an Advocate. They also provide mentorship on Fedora packaging as a Fedora Packager. The Join SIG might also point someone to translation or localization.
So, Ambassador mentorship and Join SIG mentorship are similar, but still unique. The Join SIG wasn't meant to replace Ambassadors. It was meant to provide general mentorship for anyone who wants to contribute to Fedora. This could be event organizing or something else.
I tend to think being an Ambassador is much more than the mentoring process. It is mostly what happens after being mentored or after you
Join.
I agree!
How is the Join SIG managing the following?:
- Event Planning
- Fedora Representation in Events
- Event Reporting
- Fedora Representation in Local or Regional areas
Join SIG does not manage these things. This is what the Mindshare Committee manages (at least since 2018).
I want to call out two things:
- Fedora Advocates
- Marie Nordin's proposal for future of Ambassadors
First: In the last two years, Mindshare Committee tried to improve event organizing process. This is done through the Advocate program, managed by Mindshare Committee. I see this process working well for folks who use it. But I don't think we have done great at getting the word out:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/advocate/
Second: Marie Nordin (riecatnor) wrote a proposal for "Digital Ambassadors" and "Event Advocates". It is still under discussion but I encourage others to share their feedback on this proposal:
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653606
I like this path forward so far, but still thinking on it.
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory (he/him) jwf.io TZ=America/New_York
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
Hi,
First as said there been shortages and the amount of mentors and an oversight of applicants been one. But you mix up here some things an Ambassador has nothing to do with a mentor, except he needs one to become it. To be honest I dont believe you contacted 8 different mentors.
There are huge difference between the regions and Europe is been the region who had no problems with the amount nor the activity of their mentors. So please name the names of the mentors
If you not do I put you in the same bucket where I putted the people who made this changes in, as you want "a complete overhaul of the programme" I getting sick of complete overhauls because one thing in their experience didnt work and its not even sure its mentors fault or yours contacting ambassadors.
The fun is How to become an ambassador is well documented, I can show you parts of the project who really would need an overhaul. You make here proposals who are already in place.
br gnokii
Am Mo., 25. Mai 2020 um 22:26 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin <lgriffin@redhat.com
:
On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 10:44 AM S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
It's time to say something to this. The ambassador program was sabotaged a while ago. All under the umbrella of more openess. The people who sabotaged it had just a little experience and only looking to get their own problems solved.
The ambassador program was once written with quality in mind that this was the right way you just have to look at openSUSE and that the totally openess of their ambassador program (have to look if they call it still that way) and what it brought them NOTHING
The idea behind the mentoring and therefore a selection for the quality made its sense, sure there been some shortages and nothing which could havent been solved. But it starts with undemocratic behavior in past FAmSCo elections, where people made part of this committee even they not been legitimate to be in it. Just study the FAmSCo tickets its all there.
It goes further for making the comment that I find that someone hasnt the skills to be a mentor I was kept away from using the IRC for a month. I made another comment which did lead to the disable of my FAS for while, I just said that a person should tell all parts of the story not just what suits her/his needs
What you expect from someone who comes in a ambassador meeting and says I work for RedHat and now you must make me ambassador, how nice we keep all logs so its provable.
I don't know the history here and don't want to get drawn into politics that I know nothing about. I want to comment on my experience of the Ambassador program as someone who works for Red Hat. My role as the CPE Manager means I could have easily reached out to my own team or folks I know in the Council to force push me as an Ambassador. I opted to go through the process of seeking a mentor and following the documented steps to become an Ambassador. I sent 8 different emails over the period of 6 months and got 1 mail bounce. I got one reply in January but we were both too busy and we never got a chance to reconnect. I tried to ping some of the folks on IRC but got no replies. I sent a request in September or so to join the Ambassador mailing list and it was accepted in April. I have plenty of opportunities to learn more about the project through my day job but I wanted to down this route to get more familiarity with how the program works and how we are trying to attract people into the Community. It's an awful experience if I am being honest and the overall program needs an overhaul. Folks with the Ambassador title but whom are inactive or unable to help out (which is totally fine as life is life) should be able to step back and have an emeritus style title to allow newcomers figure out who they can reach out to and get the mentorship they need.
And this person played a vital role in this changes! Why because there been trouble in become an Ambassador, and is was the own fault
When I have the opinion something should be changed, then I look first what the problems are and what things I want to keep and I try to understand why certain things are like they are. Very often they make sense then.
But nothing like was done.
There been addressed problems which never been problems at all
br gnokii
Justin W. Flory (he/him) jflory7@gmail.com schrieb am So., 24. Mai 2020, 00:09:
Hi Onyeibo,
On 5/23/20 4:46 AM, onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
First off, if mentoring was the issue with Ambassador Programme then
the
Join SIG seems to be addressing that --although it might be helpful to find out what went wrong with the Ambassador's Mentor programme.
In the 2010's, Ambassador mentorship focused first on events. Sometimes mentors guided for other things in Fedora.
Today, the Join SIG focuses on general mentorship. The Join SIG can provide mentorship and guidance on planning events as an Advocate. They also provide mentorship on Fedora packaging as a Fedora Packager. The Join SIG might also point someone to translation or localization.
So, Ambassador mentorship and Join SIG mentorship are similar, but still unique. The Join SIG wasn't meant to replace Ambassadors. It was meant to provide general mentorship for anyone who wants to contribute to Fedora. This could be event organizing or something else.
I tend to think being an Ambassador is much more than the mentoring process. It is mostly what happens after being mentored or after you
Join.
I agree!
How is the Join SIG managing the following?:
- Event Planning
- Fedora Representation in Events
- Event Reporting
- Fedora Representation in Local or Regional areas
Join SIG does not manage these things. This is what the Mindshare Committee manages (at least since 2018).
I want to call out two things:
- Fedora Advocates
- Marie Nordin's proposal for future of Ambassadors
First: In the last two years, Mindshare Committee tried to improve event organizing process. This is done through the Advocate program, managed by Mindshare Committee. I see this process working well for folks who use it. But I don't think we have done great at getting the word out:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/advocate/
Second: Marie Nordin (riecatnor) wrote a proposal for "Digital Ambassadors" and "Event Advocates". It is still under discussion but I encourage others to share their feedback on this proposal:
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653606
I like this path forward so far, but still thinking on it.
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory (he/him) jwf.io TZ=America/New_York
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
--
Leigh Griffin
Engineering Manager
Red Hat Waterford https://www.redhat.com/
Communications House
Cork Road, Waterford City
lgriffin@redhat.com M: +353877545162 IM: lgriffin @redhatjobs https://twitter.com/redhatjobs redhatjobs https://www.facebook.com/redhatjobs @redhatjobs https://instagram.com/redhatjobs https://red.ht/sig
On Mon, May 25, 2020, 17:10 S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
First as said there been shortages and the amount of mentors and an oversight of applicants been one. But you mix up here some things an Ambassador has nothing to do with a mentor, except he needs one to become it.
That's the exact step I needed, the mentorship to become an Ambassador.
To be honest I dont believe you contacted 8 different mentors.
Apologies I checked my sent items it was 9.
There are huge difference between the regions and Europe is been the region who had no problems with the amount nor the activity of their mentors. So please name the names of the mentors
Naming and shaming volunteers for not responding to an email goes against the spirit of the Community and I see no benefit or merit in disenfranchising volunteers
If you not do I put you in the same bucket where I putted the people who made this changes in, as you want "a complete overhaul of the programme"
I never said that but it's your bucket to place people wherever you want, but by doing so you are creating a broad classification that isn't a constructive means to debate a path forward for a program you clearly have a passion for. If you check my comment on the feedback ticket I'm only requesting a means to identify Active Vs inactive Ambassadors.
I getting sick of complete overhauls because one thing in their experience
didnt work and its not even sure its mentors fault or yours contacting ambassadors.
The fun is How to become an ambassador is well documented, I can show you parts of the project who really would need an overhaul.
Please share your feedback and if my team are able to help I'd be happy for them to consider it.
You make here proposals who are already in place.
I don't feel that my proposal is in place and going on the feedback ticket it seems I'm not alone. Please don't confuse my very narrow view of the request with a broad statement of wider change. I'm not saying or suggesting that.
br gnokii
Am Mo., 25. Mai 2020 um 22:26 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin < lgriffin@redhat.com>:
On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 10:44 AM S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
It's time to say something to this. The ambassador program was sabotaged a while ago. All under the umbrella of more openess. The people who sabotaged it had just a little experience and only looking to get their own problems solved.
The ambassador program was once written with quality in mind that this was the right way you just have to look at openSUSE and that the totally openess of their ambassador program (have to look if they call it still that way) and what it brought them NOTHING
The idea behind the mentoring and therefore a selection for the quality made its sense, sure there been some shortages and nothing which could havent been solved. But it starts with undemocratic behavior in past FAmSCo elections, where people made part of this committee even they not been legitimate to be in it. Just study the FAmSCo tickets its all there.
It goes further for making the comment that I find that someone hasnt the skills to be a mentor I was kept away from using the IRC for a month. I made another comment which did lead to the disable of my FAS for while, I just said that a person should tell all parts of the story not just what suits her/his needs
What you expect from someone who comes in a ambassador meeting and says I work for RedHat and now you must make me ambassador, how nice we keep all logs so its provable.
I don't know the history here and don't want to get drawn into politics that I know nothing about. I want to comment on my experience of the Ambassador program as someone who works for Red Hat. My role as the CPE Manager means I could have easily reached out to my own team or folks I know in the Council to force push me as an Ambassador. I opted to go through the process of seeking a mentor and following the documented steps to become an Ambassador. I sent 8 different emails over the period of 6 months and got 1 mail bounce. I got one reply in January but we were both too busy and we never got a chance to reconnect. I tried to ping some of the folks on IRC but got no replies. I sent a request in September or so to join the Ambassador mailing list and it was accepted in April. I have plenty of opportunities to learn more about the project through my day job but I wanted to down this route to get more familiarity with how the program works and how we are trying to attract people into the Community. It's an awful experience if I am being honest and the overall program needs an overhaul. Folks with the Ambassador title but whom are inactive or unable to help out (which is totally fine as life is life) should be able to step back and have an emeritus style title to allow newcomers figure out who they can reach out to and get the mentorship they need.
And this person played a vital role in this changes! Why because there been trouble in become an Ambassador, and is was the own fault
When I have the opinion something should be changed, then I look first what the problems are and what things I want to keep and I try to understand why certain things are like they are. Very often they make sense then.
But nothing like was done.
There been addressed problems which never been problems at all
br gnokii
Justin W. Flory (he/him) jflory7@gmail.com schrieb am So., 24. Mai 2020, 00:09:
Hi Onyeibo,
On 5/23/20 4:46 AM, onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
First off, if mentoring was the issue with Ambassador Programme then
the
Join SIG seems to be addressing that --although it might be helpful to find out what went wrong with the Ambassador's Mentor programme.
In the 2010's, Ambassador mentorship focused first on events. Sometimes mentors guided for other things in Fedora.
Today, the Join SIG focuses on general mentorship. The Join SIG can provide mentorship and guidance on planning events as an Advocate. They also provide mentorship on Fedora packaging as a Fedora Packager. The Join SIG might also point someone to translation or localization.
So, Ambassador mentorship and Join SIG mentorship are similar, but still unique. The Join SIG wasn't meant to replace Ambassadors. It was meant to provide general mentorship for anyone who wants to contribute to Fedora. This could be event organizing or something else.
I tend to think being an Ambassador is much more than the mentoring process. It is mostly what happens after being mentored or after you
Join.
I agree!
How is the Join SIG managing the following?:
- Event Planning
- Fedora Representation in Events
- Event Reporting
- Fedora Representation in Local or Regional areas
Join SIG does not manage these things. This is what the Mindshare Committee manages (at least since 2018).
I want to call out two things:
- Fedora Advocates
- Marie Nordin's proposal for future of Ambassadors
First: In the last two years, Mindshare Committee tried to improve event organizing process. This is done through the Advocate program, managed by Mindshare Committee. I see this process working well for folks who use it. But I don't think we have done great at getting the word out:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/advocate/
Second: Marie Nordin (riecatnor) wrote a proposal for "Digital Ambassadors" and "Event Advocates". It is still under discussion but I encourage others to share their feedback on this proposal:
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653606
I like this path forward so far, but still thinking on it.
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory (he/him) jwf.io TZ=America/New_York
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
--
Leigh Griffin
Engineering Manager
Red Hat Waterford https://www.redhat.com/
Communications House
Cork Road, Waterford City
lgriffin@redhat.com M: +353877545162 IM: lgriffin @redhatjobs https://twitter.com/redhatjobs redhatjobs https://www.facebook.com/redhatjobs @redhatjobs https://instagram.com/redhatjobs https://red.ht/sig
-- make me rich, buy my Inkscape book http://is.gd/yq5OD0 ;)
Hello,
of course you contacted 9 mentors out of 7 available. Its not naming and shaming, its just figuring out where the failure in the system is. As you did very well read the ambassador requirements, you can explain me surly why your personal wiki page doesnt fullfill the requirements? I can not find you email
And to your active and inactive thing who decides what active and what inactive is? You? We have there ambassador who count as highly active but they are just active during meetings, the job of the ambassador there is no activity.
There is an activity control in place depending on the FAS everything else is nonsense, I explained that once to Matt and Bex. For some successful events I working here a year or even more and it takes a lot of time because of the local problems. And I will not report each mail I wrote, each call I made, each meeting I had so you cant see how much work I do. So how you decide what is an active and who is inactive
Am Di., 26. Mai 2020 um 00:45 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin <lgriffin@redhat.com
:
On Mon, May 25, 2020, 17:10 S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
First as said there been shortages and the amount of mentors and an oversight of applicants been one. But you mix up here some things an Ambassador has nothing to do with a mentor, except he needs one to become it.
That's the exact step I needed, the mentorship to become an Ambassador.
To be honest I dont believe you contacted 8 different mentors.
Apologies I checked my sent items it was 9.
There are huge difference between the regions and Europe is been the region who had no problems with the amount nor the activity of their mentors. So please name the names of the mentors
Naming and shaming volunteers for not responding to an email goes against the spirit of the Community and I see no benefit or merit in disenfranchising volunteers
If you not do I put you in the same bucket where I putted the people who made this changes in, as you want "a complete overhaul of the programme"
I never said that but it's your bucket to place people wherever you want, but by doing so you are creating a broad classification that isn't a constructive means to debate a path forward for a program you clearly have a passion for. If you check my comment on the feedback ticket I'm only requesting a means to identify Active Vs inactive Ambassadors.
I getting sick of complete overhauls because one thing in their experience
didnt work and its not even sure its mentors fault or yours contacting ambassadors.
The fun is How to become an ambassador is well documented, I can show you parts of the project who really would need an overhaul.
Please share your feedback and if my team are able to help I'd be happy for them to consider it.
You make here proposals who are already in place.
I don't feel that my proposal is in place and going on the feedback ticket it seems I'm not alone. Please don't confuse my very narrow view of the request with a broad statement of wider change. I'm not saying or suggesting that.
br gnokii
Am Mo., 25. Mai 2020 um 22:26 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin < lgriffin@redhat.com>:
On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 10:44 AM S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
It's time to say something to this. The ambassador program was sabotaged a while ago. All under the umbrella of more openess. The people who sabotaged it had just a little experience and only looking to get their own problems solved.
The ambassador program was once written with quality in mind that this was the right way you just have to look at openSUSE and that the totally openess of their ambassador program (have to look if they call it still that way) and what it brought them NOTHING
The idea behind the mentoring and therefore a selection for the quality made its sense, sure there been some shortages and nothing which could havent been solved. But it starts with undemocratic behavior in past FAmSCo elections, where people made part of this committee even they not been legitimate to be in it. Just study the FAmSCo tickets its all there.
It goes further for making the comment that I find that someone hasnt the skills to be a mentor I was kept away from using the IRC for a month. I made another comment which did lead to the disable of my FAS for while, I just said that a person should tell all parts of the story not just what suits her/his needs
What you expect from someone who comes in a ambassador meeting and says I work for RedHat and now you must make me ambassador, how nice we keep all logs so its provable.
I don't know the history here and don't want to get drawn into politics that I know nothing about. I want to comment on my experience of the Ambassador program as someone who works for Red Hat. My role as the CPE Manager means I could have easily reached out to my own team or folks I know in the Council to force push me as an Ambassador. I opted to go through the process of seeking a mentor and following the documented steps to become an Ambassador. I sent 8 different emails over the period of 6 months and got 1 mail bounce. I got one reply in January but we were both too busy and we never got a chance to reconnect. I tried to ping some of the folks on IRC but got no replies. I sent a request in September or so to join the Ambassador mailing list and it was accepted in April. I have plenty of opportunities to learn more about the project through my day job but I wanted to down this route to get more familiarity with how the program works and how we are trying to attract people into the Community. It's an awful experience if I am being honest and the overall program needs an overhaul. Folks with the Ambassador title but whom are inactive or unable to help out (which is totally fine as life is life) should be able to step back and have an emeritus style title to allow newcomers figure out who they can reach out to and get the mentorship they need.
And this person played a vital role in this changes! Why because there been trouble in become an Ambassador, and is was the own fault
When I have the opinion something should be changed, then I look first what the problems are and what things I want to keep and I try to understand why certain things are like they are. Very often they make sense then.
But nothing like was done.
There been addressed problems which never been problems at all
br gnokii
Justin W. Flory (he/him) jflory7@gmail.com schrieb am So., 24. Mai 2020, 00:09:
Hi Onyeibo,
On 5/23/20 4:46 AM, onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote:
First off, if mentoring was the issue with Ambassador Programme then
the
Join SIG seems to be addressing that --although it might be helpful
to
find out what went wrong with the Ambassador's Mentor programme.
In the 2010's, Ambassador mentorship focused first on events. Sometimes mentors guided for other things in Fedora.
Today, the Join SIG focuses on general mentorship. The Join SIG can provide mentorship and guidance on planning events as an Advocate. They also provide mentorship on Fedora packaging as a Fedora Packager. The Join SIG might also point someone to translation or localization.
So, Ambassador mentorship and Join SIG mentorship are similar, but still unique. The Join SIG wasn't meant to replace Ambassadors. It was meant to provide general mentorship for anyone who wants to contribute to Fedora. This could be event organizing or something else.
I tend to think being an Ambassador is much more than the mentoring process. It is mostly what happens after being mentored or after
you Join.
I agree!
How is the Join SIG managing the following?:
- Event Planning
- Fedora Representation in Events
- Event Reporting
- Fedora Representation in Local or Regional areas
Join SIG does not manage these things. This is what the Mindshare Committee manages (at least since 2018).
I want to call out two things:
- Fedora Advocates
- Marie Nordin's proposal for future of Ambassadors
First: In the last two years, Mindshare Committee tried to improve event organizing process. This is done through the Advocate program, managed by Mindshare Committee. I see this process working well for folks who use it. But I don't think we have done great at getting the word out:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/advocate/
Second: Marie Nordin (riecatnor) wrote a proposal for "Digital Ambassadors" and "Event Advocates". It is still under discussion but I encourage others to share their feedback on this proposal:
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653606
I like this path forward so far, but still thinking on it.
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory (he/him) jwf.io TZ=America/New_York
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--
Leigh Griffin
Engineering Manager
Red Hat Waterford https://www.redhat.com/
Communications House
Cork Road, Waterford City
lgriffin@redhat.com M: +353877545162 IM: lgriffin @redhatjobs https://twitter.com/redhatjobs redhatjobs https://www.facebook.com/redhatjobs @redhatjobs https://instagram.com/redhatjobs https://red.ht/sig
-- make me rich, buy my Inkscape book http://is.gd/yq5OD0 ;)
On Mon, May 25, 2020, 19:35 S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
of course you contacted 9 mentors out of 7 available.
I mailed several of the listed people on the wiki and several other people recommended by my team who had been mentored by them previously on their journey to being an ambassador. Not all were EMEA based. 1 replied. 1 bounced on the listed mail. The rest I didn't get a response from.
Its not naming and shaming, its just figuring out where the failure in the
system is. As you did very well read the ambassador requirements, you can explain me surly why your personal wiki page doesnt fullfill the requirements?
I didn't state I got far enough to become a full fledged ambassador. I talked about the mentoring outreach.
I can not find you email
And to your active and inactive thing who decides what active and what inactive is?
The community as a whole, hence the ticket for discussion.
You?
My only thought or opinion there is shared in the ticket. I honestly don't care how its decided but it would be good if future ambassadors going through the mentoring aspect knew who to reach out to and it allows people step back.
We have there ambassador who count as highly active but they are just
active during meetings, the job of the ambassador there is no activity.
I'm exclusively talking about the path to the ambassador program for getting new ambassadors in. That's the active or inactive part I am focused on as it's the only experience I have had with the program and unfortunately it's a negative one and with constructive feedback it might help the program move forward. How do you suggest the mentoring to gain access to the program should be carried out? I'd love to get your thoughts on it.
There is an activity control in place depending on the FAS everything else is nonsense, I explained that once to Matt and Bex. For some successful events I working here a year or even more and it takes a lot of time because of the local problems. And I will not report each mail I wrote, each call I made, each meeting I had so you cant see how much work I do. So how you decide what is an active and who is inactive
I'm sure we could look at marking activities to know when someone is available. That's really all the indication is for. I'm available to mentor. I'm available to help out. I'm engaged on local work. I'm too busy with life right now. This suggestion isn't a stick to beat anyone with. Imagine this from a prospective Ambassadors perspective. They are excited to play their part, they reach out to engage and they are met with silence. How is that for an experience? That's what I'd like to solve as I have several people I want to direct towards this and me going on that journey was to help inform them.
Am Di., 26. Mai 2020 um 00:45 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin < lgriffin@redhat.com>:
On Mon, May 25, 2020, 17:10 S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
First as said there been shortages and the amount of mentors and an oversight of applicants been one. But you mix up here some things an Ambassador has nothing to do with a mentor, except he needs one to become it.
That's the exact step I needed, the mentorship to become an Ambassador.
To be honest I dont believe you contacted 8 different mentors.
Apologies I checked my sent items it was 9.
There are huge difference between the regions and Europe is been the region who had no problems with the amount nor the activity of their mentors. So please name the names of the mentors
Naming and shaming volunteers for not responding to an email goes against the spirit of the Community and I see no benefit or merit in disenfranchising volunteers
If you not do I put you in the same bucket where I putted the people who made this changes in, as you want "a complete overhaul of the programme"
I never said that but it's your bucket to place people wherever you want, but by doing so you are creating a broad classification that isn't a constructive means to debate a path forward for a program you clearly have a passion for. If you check my comment on the feedback ticket I'm only requesting a means to identify Active Vs inactive Ambassadors.
I getting sick of complete overhauls because one thing in their
experience didnt work and its not even sure its mentors fault or yours contacting ambassadors.
The fun is How to become an ambassador is well documented, I can show you parts of the project who really would need an overhaul.
Please share your feedback and if my team are able to help I'd be happy for them to consider it.
You make here proposals who are already in place.
I don't feel that my proposal is in place and going on the feedback ticket it seems I'm not alone. Please don't confuse my very narrow view of the request with a broad statement of wider change. I'm not saying or suggesting that.
br gnokii
Am Mo., 25. Mai 2020 um 22:26 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin < lgriffin@redhat.com>:
On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 10:44 AM S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
It's time to say something to this. The ambassador program was sabotaged a while ago. All under the umbrella of more openess. The people who sabotaged it had just a little experience and only looking to get their own problems solved.
The ambassador program was once written with quality in mind that this was the right way you just have to look at openSUSE and that the totally openess of their ambassador program (have to look if they call it still that way) and what it brought them NOTHING
The idea behind the mentoring and therefore a selection for the quality made its sense, sure there been some shortages and nothing which could havent been solved. But it starts with undemocratic behavior in past FAmSCo elections, where people made part of this committee even they not been legitimate to be in it. Just study the FAmSCo tickets its all there.
It goes further for making the comment that I find that someone hasnt the skills to be a mentor I was kept away from using the IRC for a month. I made another comment which did lead to the disable of my FAS for while, I just said that a person should tell all parts of the story not just what suits her/his needs
What you expect from someone who comes in a ambassador meeting and says I work for RedHat and now you must make me ambassador, how nice we keep all logs so its provable.
I don't know the history here and don't want to get drawn into politics that I know nothing about. I want to comment on my experience of the Ambassador program as someone who works for Red Hat. My role as the CPE Manager means I could have easily reached out to my own team or folks I know in the Council to force push me as an Ambassador. I opted to go through the process of seeking a mentor and following the documented steps to become an Ambassador. I sent 8 different emails over the period of 6 months and got 1 mail bounce. I got one reply in January but we were both too busy and we never got a chance to reconnect. I tried to ping some of the folks on IRC but got no replies. I sent a request in September or so to join the Ambassador mailing list and it was accepted in April. I have plenty of opportunities to learn more about the project through my day job but I wanted to down this route to get more familiarity with how the program works and how we are trying to attract people into the Community. It's an awful experience if I am being honest and the overall program needs an overhaul. Folks with the Ambassador title but whom are inactive or unable to help out (which is totally fine as life is life) should be able to step back and have an emeritus style title to allow newcomers figure out who they can reach out to and get the mentorship they need.
And this person played a vital role in this changes! Why because there been trouble in become an Ambassador, and is was the own fault
When I have the opinion something should be changed, then I look first what the problems are and what things I want to keep and I try to understand why certain things are like they are. Very often they make sense then.
But nothing like was done.
There been addressed problems which never been problems at all
br gnokii
Justin W. Flory (he/him) jflory7@gmail.com schrieb am So., 24. Mai 2020, 00:09:
Hi Onyeibo,
On 5/23/20 4:46 AM, onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote: > First off, if mentoring was the issue with Ambassador Programme then the > Join SIG seems to be addressing that --although it might be helpful to > find out what went wrong with the Ambassador's Mentor programme.
In the 2010's, Ambassador mentorship focused first on events. Sometimes mentors guided for other things in Fedora.
Today, the Join SIG focuses on general mentorship. The Join SIG can provide mentorship and guidance on planning events as an Advocate. They also provide mentorship on Fedora packaging as a Fedora Packager. The Join SIG might also point someone to translation or localization.
So, Ambassador mentorship and Join SIG mentorship are similar, but still unique. The Join SIG wasn't meant to replace Ambassadors. It was meant to provide general mentorship for anyone who wants to contribute to Fedora. This could be event organizing or something else.
> I tend to think being an Ambassador is much more than the mentoring > process. It is mostly what happens after being mentored or after you Join.
I agree!
> How is the Join SIG managing the following?: > 1. Event Planning > 2. Fedora Representation in Events > 3. Event Reporting > 4. Fedora Representation in Local or Regional areas
Join SIG does not manage these things. This is what the Mindshare Committee manages (at least since 2018).
I want to call out two things:
- Fedora Advocates
- Marie Nordin's proposal for future of Ambassadors
First: In the last two years, Mindshare Committee tried to improve event organizing process. This is done through the Advocate program, managed by Mindshare Committee. I see this process working well for folks who use it. But I don't think we have done great at getting the word out:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/advocate/
Second: Marie Nordin (riecatnor) wrote a proposal for "Digital Ambassadors" and "Event Advocates". It is still under discussion but I encourage others to share their feedback on this proposal:
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653606
I like this path forward so far, but still thinking on it.
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory (he/him) jwf.io TZ=America/New_York
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--
Leigh Griffin
Engineering Manager
Red Hat Waterford https://www.redhat.com/
Communications House
Cork Road, Waterford City
lgriffin@redhat.com M: +353877545162 IM: lgriffin @redhatjobs https://twitter.com/redhatjobs redhatjobs https://www.facebook.com/redhatjobs @redhatjobs https://instagram.com/redhatjobs https://red.ht/sig
-- make me rich, buy my Inkscape book http://is.gd/yq5OD0 ;)
-- make me rich, buy my Inkscape book http://is.gd/yq5OD0 ;)
Am 25.05.20 um 21:03 schrieb Leigh Griffin:
I mailed several of the listed people on the wiki and several other people recommended by my team who had been mentored by them previously on their journey to being an ambassador. Not all were EMEA based. 1 replied. 1 bounced on the listed mail. The rest I didn't get a response from.
...
I didn't state I got far enough to become a full fledged ambassador. I talked about the mentoring outreach.
seeing this discussion back and forth - there are clear indications, there is not good enough leadership for Ambassadors since years and also no one willing to really invest time into Ambassador Group gardening - (e.g. 40h/week job during my FAmA times).
The multiple stated indications show that Ambassador Mentors are obviously not approachable or at least not easy to approach and it is also obvious this discussions does not help getting our new release developed or a positive message torwards new users or contributors out.
In the lists there are plenty of discussions helping not to repeat the mistakes of the past ... and there are a lot ;)
So, as long as there is no one willing and able to step up as FAmA to do the slogger work and revive this dead patient, give freedom to those who invest their time trying to move this to a new place(joingroup/advocates) unbiased from the old battlegrounds - the time is long overdue to retire the Ambassador Group this will not diminish the work and the achievements done in this group in the past.
cheers Joerg
Hey All. Woha, what a Thread.
I would like to put my personal experience here, just to share different perspectives from the same situation:
I consider myself to have been a quite active member of Fedora project since I joined back in 2007. Started with design, then became an ambassador, then became a mentor, helped in several teams "as ambassador", was part of FAmSCo, then became Diversity advisory, etc etc. You could say I'm an "active" ambassador and was an Active Mentor. it all looks good until here. Ambassadors were not event handlers, that was the least of our tasks... our main task was to get newcomers, ask them what they were interested on, and direct them to the team within Fedora that fit their skills. Events were just a way to catch new talents.
I became a mom in 2017, and my country internet/power situation became a hell, so this is how my activities within Fedora changed:
* I stopped joining IRC because my bouncing rate would make me always be banned from freenode, so I opted to be on the telegram channels that are linked. most meeting channels are not linked, so, I don't go to meetings. * I stopped interacting as an "official mentor" because my latency in response to people was "unacceptable". Most newcomers are more interested on "be named" ambassadors than to do the work required. I was one of the few who tried to implement different processes to accept ambassadors [1] [2] and not accept those who were only looking to have the "easiest" recognizable title within the community. This hasn't changed for what I can see... * I didn't stop hosting events, but without power, it's quite hard to host even a small talk. Without internet, it's hard to write a blog post. So work is done, but it has become harder to "let the board know" * I'm online on different hours and for short periods because work/kids. I don't work for Fedora or RedHat, so my priority is my work and my kid, and my small spare time is for the community right now.
Am I a bad ambassador for dropping my available time? I would like to believe not. Am I a bad mentor for demanding to know the real interest behind someone who wants to become an ambassador? of course not, specially when one of my requirements as Mentor was that, if you want to be an Ambassador, you have to be part of another team inside Fedora so you can actually know what you're gonna spread to the world.
People forgot that they don't need permission to contribute inside the project, so why don't we put our energies on that instead of this kind of futile debates of recognition for works that are NOT being correctly done?
In any case, I'm with Joerg in a lot of parts, I'm with Sirko in some other, I'm with Eduard in a few more.
Fedora was a place where you felt welcomed to do, without having to "work" in a company. If you had a couple a weeks a year to contribute, the team said "thank you" instead saying "you're not doing enough". Fedora doesn't feel like a family right now, it feels like a corporation, with metrics to fill, tasks that "have" to be done... and that drops motivation instead lifting it. Most of us are here because we want to, not because we have to, and until we start to treat people like contributors again instead as employees, this kind of discussions won't stop, and the ton of changes to have a more organized structure will only increase in an attempt to handle people's time.
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Tatica/Ambassadors-Mentors [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Tatica/Mentor
El mar., 26 may. 2020 a las 5:33, Joerg Simon (jsimon@fedoraproject.org) escribió:
Am 25.05.20 um 21:03 schrieb Leigh Griffin:
I mailed several of the listed people on the wiki and several other people recommended by my team who had been mentored by them previously on their journey to being an ambassador. Not all were EMEA based. 1 replied. 1 bounced on the listed mail. The rest I didn't get a response from.
...
I didn't state I got far enough to become a full fledged ambassador. I talked about the mentoring outreach.
seeing this discussion back and forth - there are clear indications, there is not good enough leadership for Ambassadors since years and also no one willing to really invest time into Ambassador Group gardening - (e.g. 40h/week job during my FAmA times).
The multiple stated indications show that Ambassador Mentors are obviously not approachable or at least not easy to approach and it is also obvious this discussions does not help getting our new release developed or a positive message torwards new users or contributors out.
In the lists there are plenty of discussions helping not to repeat the mistakes of the past ... and there are a lot ;)
So, as long as there is no one willing and able to step up as FAmA to do the slogger work and revive this dead patient, give freedom to those who invest their time trying to move this to a new place(joingroup/advocates) unbiased from the old battlegrounds - the time is long overdue to retire the Ambassador Group this will not diminish the work and the achievements done in this group in the past.
cheers Joerg
Joerg (kital) Simon jsimon@fedoraproject.org https://about.me/joerg.simon Key Fingerprint: 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
Call trans opt: received. 2-19-98 13:24:18 REC:Loc
Trace program: running wake up, Neo... the matrix has you follow the white rabbit. knock, knock, Neo. (`. ,-, ` `. ,;' / `. ,'/ .' `. X /.' .-;--''--.._` ` ( .' / ` , ` ' Q ' , , `._ \ ,.| ' `-.;_' : . ` ; ` ` --,.._; ' ` , ) .' `._ , ' /_ ; ,''-,;' ``- ``-..__``--`
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@Tatica summed it up for me.
Regards Onyeibo
Am 26.05.20 um 13:16 schrieb María Leandro:
Most of us are here because we want to, not because we have to, and until we start to treat people like contributors again instead as employees, this kind of discussions won't stop, and the ton of changes to have a more organized structure will only increase in an attempt to handle people's time.
big +1
What a beautiful write-up @tatica. I agree with each and everything you wrote. Huge +1.
Regards, Amita
On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 4:47 PM María Leandro tatica@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Hey All. Woha, what a Thread.
I would like to put my personal experience here, just to share different perspectives from the same situation:
I consider myself to have been a quite active member of Fedora project since I joined back in 2007. Started with design, then became an ambassador, then became a mentor, helped in several teams "as ambassador", was part of FAmSCo, then became Diversity advisory, etc etc. You could say I'm an "active" ambassador and was an Active Mentor. it all looks good until here. Ambassadors were not event handlers, that was the least of our tasks... our main task was to get newcomers, ask them what they were interested on, and direct them to the team within Fedora that fit their skills. Events were just a way to catch new talents.
I became a mom in 2017, and my country internet/power situation became a hell, so this is how my activities within Fedora changed:
- I stopped joining IRC because my bouncing rate would make me always be
banned from freenode, so I opted to be on the telegram channels that are linked. most meeting channels are not linked, so, I don't go to meetings.
- I stopped interacting as an "official mentor" because my latency in
response to people was "unacceptable". Most newcomers are more interested on "be named" ambassadors than to do the work required. I was one of the few who tried to implement different processes to accept ambassadors [1] [2] and not accept those who were only looking to have the "easiest" recognizable title within the community. This hasn't changed for what I can see...
- I didn't stop hosting events, but without power, it's quite hard to host
even a small talk. Without internet, it's hard to write a blog post. So work is done, but it has become harder to "let the board know"
- I'm online on different hours and for short periods because work/kids. I
don't work for Fedora or RedHat, so my priority is my work and my kid, and my small spare time is for the community right now.
Am I a bad ambassador for dropping my available time? I would like to believe not. Am I a bad mentor for demanding to know the real interest behind someone who wants to become an ambassador? of course not, specially when one of my requirements as Mentor was that, if you want to be an Ambassador, you have to be part of another team inside Fedora so you can actually know what you're gonna spread to the world.
People forgot that they don't need permission to contribute inside the project, so why don't we put our energies on that instead of this kind of futile debates of recognition for works that are NOT being correctly done?
In any case, I'm with Joerg in a lot of parts, I'm with Sirko in some other, I'm with Eduard in a few more.
Fedora was a place where you felt welcomed to do, without having to "work" in a company. If you had a couple a weeks a year to contribute, the team said "thank you" instead saying "you're not doing enough". Fedora doesn't feel like a family right now, it feels like a corporation, with metrics to fill, tasks that "have" to be done... and that drops motivation instead lifting it. Most of us are here because we want to, not because we have to, and until we start to treat people like contributors again instead as employees, this kind of discussions won't stop, and the ton of changes to have a more organized structure will only increase in an attempt to handle people's time.
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Tatica/Ambassadors-Mentors [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Tatica/Mentor
El mar., 26 may. 2020 a las 5:33, Joerg Simon (jsimon@fedoraproject.org) escribió:
Am 25.05.20 um 21:03 schrieb Leigh Griffin:
I mailed several of the listed people on the wiki and several other people recommended by my team who had been mentored by them previously on their journey to being an ambassador. Not all were EMEA based. 1 replied. 1 bounced on the listed mail. The rest I didn't get a response from.
...
I didn't state I got far enough to become a full fledged ambassador. I talked about the mentoring outreach.
seeing this discussion back and forth - there are clear indications, there is not good enough leadership for Ambassadors since years and also no one willing to really invest time into Ambassador Group gardening - (e.g. 40h/week job during my FAmA times).
The multiple stated indications show that Ambassador Mentors are obviously not approachable or at least not easy to approach and it is also obvious this discussions does not help getting our new release developed or a positive message torwards new users or contributors out.
In the lists there are plenty of discussions helping not to repeat the mistakes of the past ... and there are a lot ;)
So, as long as there is no one willing and able to step up as FAmA to do the slogger work and revive this dead patient, give freedom to those who invest their time trying to move this to a new place(joingroup/advocates) unbiased from the old battlegrounds - the time is long overdue to retire the Ambassador Group this will not diminish the work and the achievements done in this group in the past.
cheers Joerg
Joerg (kital) Simon jsimon@fedoraproject.org https://about.me/joerg.simon Key Fingerprint: 3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
Call trans opt: received. 2-19-98 13:24:18 REC:Loc
Trace program: running wake up, Neo... the matrix has you follow the white rabbit. knock, knock, Neo. (`. ,-, ` `. ,;' / `. ,'/ .' `. X /.' .-;--''--.._` ` ( .' / ` , ` ' Q ' , , `._ \ ,.| ' `-.;_' : . ` ; ` ` --,.._; ' ` , ) .' `._ , ' /_ ; ,''-,;' ``- ``-..__``--`
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-- tatica Maria Gracia Leandro http://www.tatica.org http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:tatica LinuxUser= 440285 GPG Public Key: E1CDCC56 _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
Agreed with Tatica. Personally not been as active as before, but still part of the local Fedora group activities. From start Ambassadors was a voluntary program we do what we can when we can and it used to be an smile and thanks at the end of anything we did. As a former FAMSCO member we use to have contact with members on the meetings (now there are no meetings at least Latam) no organization to share thoughts, ideas and to be in contact with others Ambassadors and members of Fedora, there is no bond between us. There were lots of sharing on Email list and IRC many of that is on Telegram channels but in a way it has dissipate our efforts or we have lost our goals. We may need to get new goals and make our Ambassadors part of this new strategic, but we also need some leadership or incentive. My two cents. El mar, 26-05-2020 a las 17:26 +0530, Amita Sharma escribió:
What a beautiful write-up @tatica. I agree with each and everything you wrote. Huge +1.
Regards, Amita
On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 4:47 PM María Leandro < tatica@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
Hey All. Woha, what a Thread. I would like to put my personal experience here, just to share different perspectives from the same situation:
I consider myself to have been a quite active member of Fedora project since I joined back in 2007. Started with design, then became an ambassador, then became a mentor, helped in several teams "as ambassador", was part of FAmSCo, then became Diversity advisory, etc etc. You could say I'm an "active" ambassador and was an Active Mentor. it all looks good until here. Ambassadors were not event handlers, that was the least of our tasks... our main task was to get newcomers, ask them what they were interested on, and direct them to the team within Fedora that fit their skills. Events were just a way to catch new talents.
I became a mom in 2017, and my country internet/power situation became a hell, so this is how my activities within Fedora changed:
- I stopped joining IRC because my bouncing rate would make me
always be banned from freenode, so I opted to be on the telegram channels that are linked. most meeting channels are not linked, so, I don't go to meetings.
- I stopped interacting as an "official mentor" because my latency
in response to people was "unacceptable". Most newcomers are more interested on "be named" ambassadors than to do the work required. I was one of the few who tried to implement different processes to accept ambassadors [1] [2] and not accept those who were only looking to have the "easiest" recognizable title within the community. This hasn't changed for what I can see...
- I didn't stop hosting events, but without power, it's quite hard
to host even a small talk. Without internet, it's hard to write a blog post. So work is done, but it has become harder to "let the board know"
- I'm online on different hours and for short periods because
work/kids. I don't work for Fedora or RedHat, so my priority is my work and my kid, and my small spare time is for the community right now.
Am I a bad ambassador for dropping my available time? I would like to believe not. Am I a bad mentor for demanding to know the real interest behind someone who wants to become an ambassador? of course not, specially when one of my requirements as Mentor was that, if you want to be an Ambassador, you have to be part of another team inside Fedora so you can actually know what you're gonna spread to the world.
People forgot that they don't need permission to contribute inside the project, so why don't we put our energies on that instead of this kind of futile debates of recognition for works that are NOT being correctly done?
In any case, I'm with Joerg in a lot of parts, I'm with Sirko in some other, I'm with Eduard in a few more.
Fedora was a place where you felt welcomed to do, without having to "work" in a company. If you had a couple a weeks a year to contribute, the team said "thank you" instead saying "you're not doing enough". Fedora doesn't feel like a family right now, it feels like a corporation, with metrics to fill, tasks that "have" to be done... and that drops motivation instead lifting it. Most of us are here because we want to, not because we have to, and until we start to treat people like contributors again instead as employees, this kind of discussions won't stop, and the ton of changes to have a more organized structure will only increase in an attempt to handle people's time.
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Tatica/Ambassadors-Mentors [2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Tatica/Mentor
El mar., 26 may. 2020 a las 5:33, Joerg Simon (< jsimon@fedoraproject.org>) escribió:
Am 25.05.20 um 21:03 schrieb Leigh Griffin:
I mailed several of the listed people on the wiki and several
other
people recommended by my team who had been mentored by them
previously
on their journey to being an ambassador. Not all were EMEA
based. 1
replied. 1 bounced on the listed mail. The rest I didn't get a
response
from.
...
I didn't state I got far enough to become a full fledged
ambassador. I
talked about the mentoring outreach.
seeing this discussion back and forth - there are clear indications,
there is not good enough leadership for Ambassadors since years and also
no one willing to really invest time into Ambassador Group gardening -
(e.g. 40h/week job during my FAmA times).
The multiple stated indications show that Ambassador Mentors are
obviously not approachable or at least not easy to approach and it is
also obvious this discussions does not help getting our new release
developed or a positive message torwards new users or contributors out.
In the lists there are plenty of discussions helping not to repeat the
mistakes of the past ... and there are a lot ;)
So, as long as there is no one willing and able to step up as FAmA to do
the slogger work and revive this dead patient, give freedom to those who
invest their time trying to move this to a new
place(joingroup/advocates) unbiased from the old battlegrounds - the
time is long overdue to retire the Ambassador Group this will not
diminish the work and the achievements done in this group in the past.
cheers Joerg
--
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I don't think there are bad ambassadors. I don't think that someone here is searching good and bad ones. I don't think that someone here is metering our contributions. (Every contribution is important). I think that Mindshare is doing a great work, empowering people to spread Fedora to the world, yes, also if you have only a couple a weeks a year to contribute, the team say "thank you" (half citation)
In this thread I see too many words talking about the past. I was not there at that time. We are here right now. I think that in the mentioned Mindshare ticket in the mail that started this thread [1], the subject is not the past; how beautiful the world used to be, how beautiful it was when we were young. Now we should talk about the future.
[1] https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145 (please note: Opened 11 months ago)
Ciao, A.
On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 12:05 AM S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
of course you contacted 9 mentors out of 7 available. Its not naming and shaming, its just figuring out where the failure in the system is. As you did very well read the ambassador requirements, you can explain me surly why your personal wiki page doesnt fullfill the requirements? I can not find you email
You missed the point, he is not an ambassador yet. And if the mentors would have replied, he would have been asked to add his email to the user wiki because isn't it mentors' responsibility to see the candidate before sponsoring. I also can't find anywhere saying it's mandatory to have an email address in the wiki but I do see "Your user page is your own space, so feel free to make it look as you wish". (I don't care about the number of mentors contacted, as a newcomer he could have contacted mentors from other regions as well without knowing he exactly has to contact his area's mentors. I am not going to presume his activity as you did.
But, could we please stop playing this bullying game? If you could provide some solution or constructive feedback would be great. All I see is complaining and rant! that's not helpful!
And to your active and inactive thing who decides what active and what inactive is? You? We have there ambassador who count as highly active but they are just active during meetings, the job of the ambassador there is no activity.
There is an activity control in place depending on the FAS everything else is nonsense, I explained that once to Matt and Bex. For some successful events I working here a year or even more and it takes a lot of time because of the local problems. And I will not report each mail I wrote, each call I made, each meeting I had so you cant see how much work I do. So how you decide what is an active and who is inactive
Am Di., 26. Mai 2020 um 00:45 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin < lgriffin@redhat.com>:
On Mon, May 25, 2020, 17:10 S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
First as said there been shortages and the amount of mentors and an oversight of applicants been one. But you mix up here some things an Ambassador has nothing to do with a mentor, except he needs one to become it.
That's the exact step I needed, the mentorship to become an Ambassador.
To be honest I dont believe you contacted 8 different mentors.
Apologies I checked my sent items it was 9.
There are huge difference between the regions and Europe is been the region who had no problems with the amount nor the activity of their mentors. So please name the names of the mentors
Naming and shaming volunteers for not responding to an email goes against the spirit of the Community and I see no benefit or merit in disenfranchising volunteers
If you not do I put you in the same bucket where I putted the people who made this changes in, as you want "a complete overhaul of the programme"
I never said that but it's your bucket to place people wherever you want, but by doing so you are creating a broad classification that isn't a constructive means to debate a path forward for a program you clearly have a passion for. If you check my comment on the feedback ticket I'm only requesting a means to identify Active Vs inactive Ambassadors.
I getting sick of complete overhauls because one thing in their
experience didnt work and its not even sure its mentors fault or yours contacting ambassadors.
The fun is How to become an ambassador is well documented, I can show you parts of the project who really would need an overhaul.
Please share your feedback and if my team are able to help I'd be happy for them to consider it.
You make here proposals who are already in place.
I don't feel that my proposal is in place and going on the feedback ticket it seems I'm not alone. Please don't confuse my very narrow view of the request with a broad statement of wider change. I'm not saying or suggesting that.
br gnokii
Am Mo., 25. Mai 2020 um 22:26 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin < lgriffin@redhat.com>:
On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 10:44 AM S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
It's time to say something to this. The ambassador program was sabotaged a while ago. All under the umbrella of more openess. The people who sabotaged it had just a little experience and only looking to get their own problems solved.
The ambassador program was once written with quality in mind that this was the right way you just have to look at openSUSE and that the totally openess of their ambassador program (have to look if they call it still that way) and what it brought them NOTHING
The idea behind the mentoring and therefore a selection for the quality made its sense, sure there been some shortages and nothing which could havent been solved. But it starts with undemocratic behavior in past FAmSCo elections, where people made part of this committee even they not been legitimate to be in it. Just study the FAmSCo tickets its all there.
It goes further for making the comment that I find that someone hasnt the skills to be a mentor I was kept away from using the IRC for a month. I made another comment which did lead to the disable of my FAS for while, I just said that a person should tell all parts of the story not just what suits her/his needs
What you expect from someone who comes in a ambassador meeting and says I work for RedHat and now you must make me ambassador, how nice we keep all logs so its provable.
I don't know the history here and don't want to get drawn into politics that I know nothing about. I want to comment on my experience of the Ambassador program as someone who works for Red Hat. My role as the CPE Manager means I could have easily reached out to my own team or folks I know in the Council to force push me as an Ambassador. I opted to go through the process of seeking a mentor and following the documented steps to become an Ambassador. I sent 8 different emails over the period of 6 months and got 1 mail bounce. I got one reply in January but we were both too busy and we never got a chance to reconnect. I tried to ping some of the folks on IRC but got no replies. I sent a request in September or so to join the Ambassador mailing list and it was accepted in April. I have plenty of opportunities to learn more about the project through my day job but I wanted to down this route to get more familiarity with how the program works and how we are trying to attract people into the Community. It's an awful experience if I am being honest and the overall program needs an overhaul. Folks with the Ambassador title but whom are inactive or unable to help out (which is totally fine as life is life) should be able to step back and have an emeritus style title to allow newcomers figure out who they can reach out to and get the mentorship they need.
And this person played a vital role in this changes! Why because there been trouble in become an Ambassador, and is was the own fault
When I have the opinion something should be changed, then I look first what the problems are and what things I want to keep and I try to understand why certain things are like they are. Very often they make sense then.
But nothing like was done.
There been addressed problems which never been problems at all
br gnokii
Justin W. Flory (he/him) jflory7@gmail.com schrieb am So., 24. Mai 2020, 00:09:
Hi Onyeibo,
On 5/23/20 4:46 AM, onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote: > First off, if mentoring was the issue with Ambassador Programme then the > Join SIG seems to be addressing that --although it might be helpful to > find out what went wrong with the Ambassador's Mentor programme.
In the 2010's, Ambassador mentorship focused first on events. Sometimes mentors guided for other things in Fedora.
Today, the Join SIG focuses on general mentorship. The Join SIG can provide mentorship and guidance on planning events as an Advocate. They also provide mentorship on Fedora packaging as a Fedora Packager. The Join SIG might also point someone to translation or localization.
So, Ambassador mentorship and Join SIG mentorship are similar, but still unique. The Join SIG wasn't meant to replace Ambassadors. It was meant to provide general mentorship for anyone who wants to contribute to Fedora. This could be event organizing or something else.
> I tend to think being an Ambassador is much more than the mentoring > process. It is mostly what happens after being mentored or after you Join.
I agree!
> How is the Join SIG managing the following?: > 1. Event Planning > 2. Fedora Representation in Events > 3. Event Reporting > 4. Fedora Representation in Local or Regional areas
Join SIG does not manage these things. This is what the Mindshare Committee manages (at least since 2018).
I want to call out two things:
- Fedora Advocates
- Marie Nordin's proposal for future of Ambassadors
First: In the last two years, Mindshare Committee tried to improve event organizing process. This is done through the Advocate program, managed by Mindshare Committee. I see this process working well for folks who use it. But I don't think we have done great at getting the word out:
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/advocate/
Second: Marie Nordin (riecatnor) wrote a proposal for "Digital Ambassadors" and "Event Advocates". It is still under discussion but I encourage others to share their feedback on this proposal:
https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653606
I like this path forward so far, but still thinking on it.
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory (he/him) jwf.io TZ=America/New_York
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--
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Engineering Manager
Red Hat Waterford https://www.redhat.com/
Communications House
Cork Road, Waterford City
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Hello
This isnt bullying, this is exactly marking out how some of this strange decisions been made. There been some who had experiences it was never looked where the trouble came from and it was just declared a general problem
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_create_user_page
And if you look right this step come long before contacting a mentor
Am Di., 26. Mai 2020 um 02:08 Uhr schrieb Vipul Siddharth < siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>:
On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 12:05 AM S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
of course you contacted 9 mentors out of 7 available. Its not naming and shaming, its just figuring out where the failure in the system is. As you did very well read the ambassador requirements, you can explain me surly why your personal wiki page doesnt fullfill the requirements? I can not find you email
You missed the point, he is not an ambassador yet. And if the mentors would have replied, he would have been asked to add his email to the user wiki because isn't it mentors' responsibility to see the candidate before sponsoring. I also can't find anywhere saying it's mandatory to have an email address in the wiki but I do see "Your user page is your own space, so feel free to make it look as you wish". (I don't care about the number of mentors contacted, as a newcomer he could have contacted mentors from other regions as well without knowing he exactly has to contact his area's mentors. I am not going to presume his activity as you did.
But, could we please stop playing this bullying game? If you could provide some solution or constructive feedback would be great. All I see is complaining and rant! that's not helpful!
And to your active and inactive thing who decides what active and what inactive is? You? We have there ambassador who count as highly active but they are just active during meetings, the job of the ambassador there is no activity.
There is an activity control in place depending on the FAS everything else is nonsense, I explained that once to Matt and Bex. For some successful events I working here a year or even more and it takes a lot of time because of the local problems. And I will not report each mail I wrote, each call I made, each meeting I had so you cant see how much work I do. So how you decide what is an active and who is inactive
Am Di., 26. Mai 2020 um 00:45 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin < lgriffin@redhat.com>:
On Mon, May 25, 2020, 17:10 S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
First as said there been shortages and the amount of mentors and an oversight of applicants been one. But you mix up here some things an Ambassador has nothing to do with a mentor, except he needs one to become it.
That's the exact step I needed, the mentorship to become an Ambassador.
To be honest I dont believe you contacted 8 different mentors.
Apologies I checked my sent items it was 9.
There are huge difference between the regions and Europe is been the region who had no problems with the amount nor the activity of their mentors. So please name the names of the mentors
Naming and shaming volunteers for not responding to an email goes against the spirit of the Community and I see no benefit or merit in disenfranchising volunteers
If you not do I put you in the same bucket where I putted the people who made this changes in, as you want "a complete overhaul of the programme"
I never said that but it's your bucket to place people wherever you want, but by doing so you are creating a broad classification that isn't a constructive means to debate a path forward for a program you clearly have a passion for. If you check my comment on the feedback ticket I'm only requesting a means to identify Active Vs inactive Ambassadors.
I getting sick of complete overhauls because one thing in their
experience didnt work and its not even sure its mentors fault or yours contacting ambassadors.
The fun is How to become an ambassador is well documented, I can show you parts of the project who really would need an overhaul.
Please share your feedback and if my team are able to help I'd be happy for them to consider it.
You make here proposals who are already in place.
I don't feel that my proposal is in place and going on the feedback ticket it seems I'm not alone. Please don't confuse my very narrow view of the request with a broad statement of wider change. I'm not saying or suggesting that.
br gnokii
Am Mo., 25. Mai 2020 um 22:26 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin < lgriffin@redhat.com>:
On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 10:44 AM S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
It's time to say something to this. The ambassador program was sabotaged a while ago. All under the umbrella of more openess. The people who sabotaged it had just a little experience and only looking to get their own problems solved.
The ambassador program was once written with quality in mind that this was the right way you just have to look at openSUSE and that the totally openess of their ambassador program (have to look if they call it still that way) and what it brought them NOTHING
The idea behind the mentoring and therefore a selection for the quality made its sense, sure there been some shortages and nothing which could havent been solved. But it starts with undemocratic behavior in past FAmSCo elections, where people made part of this committee even they not been legitimate to be in it. Just study the FAmSCo tickets its all there.
It goes further for making the comment that I find that someone hasnt the skills to be a mentor I was kept away from using the IRC for a month. I made another comment which did lead to the disable of my FAS for while, I just said that a person should tell all parts of the story not just what suits her/his needs
What you expect from someone who comes in a ambassador meeting and says I work for RedHat and now you must make me ambassador, how nice we keep all logs so its provable.
I don't know the history here and don't want to get drawn into politics that I know nothing about. I want to comment on my experience of the Ambassador program as someone who works for Red Hat. My role as the CPE Manager means I could have easily reached out to my own team or folks I know in the Council to force push me as an Ambassador. I opted to go through the process of seeking a mentor and following the documented steps to become an Ambassador. I sent 8 different emails over the period of 6 months and got 1 mail bounce. I got one reply in January but we were both too busy and we never got a chance to reconnect. I tried to ping some of the folks on IRC but got no replies. I sent a request in September or so to join the Ambassador mailing list and it was accepted in April. I have plenty of opportunities to learn more about the project through my day job but I wanted to down this route to get more familiarity with how the program works and how we are trying to attract people into the Community. It's an awful experience if I am being honest and the overall program needs an overhaul. Folks with the Ambassador title but whom are inactive or unable to help out (which is totally fine as life is life) should be able to step back and have an emeritus style title to allow newcomers figure out who they can reach out to and get the mentorship they need.
And this person played a vital role in this changes! Why because there been trouble in become an Ambassador, and is was the own fault
When I have the opinion something should be changed, then I look first what the problems are and what things I want to keep and I try to understand why certain things are like they are. Very often they make sense then.
But nothing like was done.
There been addressed problems which never been problems at all
br gnokii
Justin W. Flory (he/him) jflory7@gmail.com schrieb am So., 24. Mai 2020, 00:09:
> Hi Onyeibo, > > On 5/23/20 4:46 AM, onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote: > > First off, if mentoring was the issue with Ambassador Programme > then the > > Join SIG seems to be addressing that --although it might be > helpful to > > find out what went wrong with the Ambassador's Mentor programme. > > In the 2010's, Ambassador mentorship focused first on events. > Sometimes > mentors guided for other things in Fedora. > > Today, the Join SIG focuses on general mentorship. The Join SIG can > provide mentorship and guidance on planning events as an Advocate. > They > also provide mentorship on Fedora packaging as a Fedora Packager. The > Join SIG might also point someone to translation or localization. > > So, Ambassador mentorship and Join SIG mentorship are similar, but > still > unique. The Join SIG wasn't meant to replace Ambassadors. It was > meant > to provide general mentorship for anyone who wants to contribute to > Fedora. This could be event organizing or something else. > > > > I tend to think being an Ambassador is much more than the mentoring > > process. It is mostly what happens after being mentored or after > you Join. > > I agree! > > > > How is the Join SIG managing the following?: > > 1. Event Planning > > 2. Fedora Representation in Events > > 3. Event Reporting > > 4. Fedora Representation in Local or Regional areas > > Join SIG does not manage these things. This is what the Mindshare > Committee manages (at least since 2018). > > I want to call out two things: > > 1. Fedora Advocates > 2. Marie Nordin's proposal for future of Ambassadors > > First: In the last two years, Mindshare Committee tried to improve > event > organizing process. This is done through the Advocate program, > managed > by Mindshare Committee. I see this process working well for folks who > use it. But I don't think we have done great at getting the word out: > > > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/advocate/ > > Second: Marie Nordin (riecatnor) wrote a proposal for "Digital > Ambassadors" and "Event Advocates". It is still under discussion but > I > encourage others to share their feedback on this proposal: > > https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653606 > > I like this path forward so far, but still thinking on it. > > -- > Cheers, > Justin W. Flory (he/him) > jwf.io > TZ=America/New_York > > _______________________________________________ > ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to > ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec... > _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
--
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Engineering Manager
Red Hat Waterford https://www.redhat.com/
Communications House
Cork Road, Waterford City
lgriffin@redhat.com M: +353877545162 IM: lgriffin @redhatjobs https://twitter.com/redhatjobs redhatjobs https://www.facebook.com/redhatjobs @redhatjobs https://instagram.com/redhatjobs https://red.ht/sig
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-- Vipul Siddharth He/His/Him Fedora | CentOS CI Infrastructure Team Red Hat w: vipul.dev
On Mon, May 25, 2020, 20:59 S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hello
This isnt bullying, this is exactly marking out how some of this strange decisions been made. There been some who had experiences it was never looked where the trouble came from and it was just declared a general problem
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Ambassadors_Join_create_user_page
And if you look right this step come long before contacting a mentor
I'm struggling to see the relevance of whether I updated a wiki page or not. Can you help me understand why this is such an important point in the conversation about inactive mentors? I ran through the guidance and the biggest hurdle is the mentorship which I wanted to engage on and learn from.
I just want to point out that discussions like this to win some moral high ground is the exact reason people don't want to get involved. It makes a lot of our mailing lists a very unwelcoming place and something I am disappointed to see on the Ambassador list. I have invited you on several replies to bring something constructive to try and move the conversation forward that might benefit the Ambassador program. Somehow it keeps getting dragged back to an admin point of no real merit and its detracting from the thread. I'm going to stop replying now as my point about active and inactive is told from my personal viewpoint and is logged on the ticket. I'd really love your constructive comments to land on that ticket and help make this a stronger community.
Am Di., 26. Mai 2020 um 02:08 Uhr schrieb Vipul Siddharth < siddharthvipul1@gmail.com>:
On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 12:05 AM S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hello,
of course you contacted 9 mentors out of 7 available. Its not naming and shaming, its just figuring out where the failure in the system is. As you did very well read the ambassador requirements, you can explain me surly why your personal wiki page doesnt fullfill the requirements? I can not find you email
You missed the point, he is not an ambassador yet. And if the mentors would have replied, he would have been asked to add his email to the user wiki because isn't it mentors' responsibility to see the candidate before sponsoring. I also can't find anywhere saying it's mandatory to have an email address in the wiki but I do see "Your user page is your own space, so feel free to make it look as you wish". (I don't care about the number of mentors contacted, as a newcomer he could have contacted mentors from other regions as well without knowing he exactly has to contact his area's mentors. I am not going to presume his activity as you did.
But, could we please stop playing this bullying game? If you could provide some solution or constructive feedback would be great. All I see is complaining and rant! that's not helpful!
And to your active and inactive thing who decides what active and what inactive is? You? We have there ambassador who count as highly active but they are just active during meetings, the job of the ambassador there is no activity.
There is an activity control in place depending on the FAS everything else is nonsense, I explained that once to Matt and Bex. For some successful events I working here a year or even more and it takes a lot of time because of the local problems. And I will not report each mail I wrote, each call I made, each meeting I had so you cant see how much work I do. So how you decide what is an active and who is inactive
Am Di., 26. Mai 2020 um 00:45 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin < lgriffin@redhat.com>:
On Mon, May 25, 2020, 17:10 S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
First as said there been shortages and the amount of mentors and an oversight of applicants been one. But you mix up here some things an Ambassador has nothing to do with a mentor, except he needs one to become it.
That's the exact step I needed, the mentorship to become an Ambassador.
To be honest I dont believe you contacted 8 different mentors.
Apologies I checked my sent items it was 9.
There are huge difference between the regions and Europe is been the region who had no problems with the amount nor the activity of their mentors. So please name the names of the mentors
Naming and shaming volunteers for not responding to an email goes against the spirit of the Community and I see no benefit or merit in disenfranchising volunteers
If you not do I put you in the same bucket where I putted the people who made this changes in, as you want "a complete overhaul of the programme"
I never said that but it's your bucket to place people wherever you want, but by doing so you are creating a broad classification that isn't a constructive means to debate a path forward for a program you clearly have a passion for. If you check my comment on the feedback ticket I'm only requesting a means to identify Active Vs inactive Ambassadors.
I getting sick of complete overhauls because one thing in their
experience didnt work and its not even sure its mentors fault or yours contacting ambassadors.
The fun is How to become an ambassador is well documented, I can show you parts of the project who really would need an overhaul.
Please share your feedback and if my team are able to help I'd be happy for them to consider it.
You make here proposals who are already in place.
I don't feel that my proposal is in place and going on the feedback ticket it seems I'm not alone. Please don't confuse my very narrow view of the request with a broad statement of wider change. I'm not saying or suggesting that.
br gnokii
Am Mo., 25. Mai 2020 um 22:26 Uhr schrieb Leigh Griffin < lgriffin@redhat.com>:
On Mon, May 25, 2020 at 10:44 AM S.Kemter sirko.kemter@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi, > > It's time to say something to this. The ambassador program was > sabotaged a while ago. All under the umbrella of more openess. The people > who sabotaged it had just a little experience and only looking to get their > own problems solved. > > The ambassador program was once written with quality in mind that > this was the right way you just have to look at openSUSE and that the > totally openess of their ambassador program (have to look if they call it > still that way) and what it brought them NOTHING > > The idea behind the mentoring and therefore a selection for the > quality made its sense, sure there been some shortages and nothing which > could havent been solved. But it starts with undemocratic behavior in past > FAmSCo elections, where people made part of this committee even they not > been legitimate to be in it. Just study the FAmSCo tickets its all there. > > It goes further for making the comment that I find that someone > hasnt the skills to be a mentor I was kept away from using the IRC for a > month. > I made another comment which did lead to the disable of my FAS for > while, I just said that a person should tell all parts of the story not > just what suits her/his needs > > What you expect from someone who comes in a ambassador meeting and > says I work for RedHat and now you must make me ambassador, how nice we > keep all logs so its provable. >
I don't know the history here and don't want to get drawn into politics that I know nothing about. I want to comment on my experience of the Ambassador program as someone who works for Red Hat. My role as the CPE Manager means I could have easily reached out to my own team or folks I know in the Council to force push me as an Ambassador. I opted to go through the process of seeking a mentor and following the documented steps to become an Ambassador. I sent 8 different emails over the period of 6 months and got 1 mail bounce. I got one reply in January but we were both too busy and we never got a chance to reconnect. I tried to ping some of the folks on IRC but got no replies. I sent a request in September or so to join the Ambassador mailing list and it was accepted in April. I have plenty of opportunities to learn more about the project through my day job but I wanted to down this route to get more familiarity with how the program works and how we are trying to attract people into the Community. It's an awful experience if I am being honest and the overall program needs an overhaul. Folks with the Ambassador title but whom are inactive or unable to help out (which is totally fine as life is life) should be able to step back and have an emeritus style title to allow newcomers figure out who they can reach out to and get the mentorship they need.
> > And this person played a vital role in this changes! Why because > there been trouble in become an Ambassador, and is was the own fault > > When I have the opinion something should be changed, then I look > first what the problems are and what things I want to keep and I try to > understand why certain things are like they are. Very often they make sense > then. > > But nothing like was done. > > There been addressed problems which never been problems at all > > > br gnokii > > > Justin W. Flory (he/him) jflory7@gmail.com schrieb am So., 24. > Mai 2020, 00:09: > >> Hi Onyeibo, >> >> On 5/23/20 4:46 AM, onyeibo@schemefusion.com wrote: >> > First off, if mentoring was the issue with Ambassador Programme >> then the >> > Join SIG seems to be addressing that --although it might be >> helpful to >> > find out what went wrong with the Ambassador's Mentor programme. >> >> In the 2010's, Ambassador mentorship focused first on events. >> Sometimes >> mentors guided for other things in Fedora. >> >> Today, the Join SIG focuses on general mentorship. The Join SIG can >> provide mentorship and guidance on planning events as an Advocate. >> They >> also provide mentorship on Fedora packaging as a Fedora Packager. >> The >> Join SIG might also point someone to translation or localization. >> >> So, Ambassador mentorship and Join SIG mentorship are similar, but >> still >> unique. The Join SIG wasn't meant to replace Ambassadors. It was >> meant >> to provide general mentorship for anyone who wants to contribute to >> Fedora. This could be event organizing or something else. >> >> >> > I tend to think being an Ambassador is much more than the >> mentoring >> > process. It is mostly what happens after being mentored or after >> you Join. >> >> I agree! >> >> >> > How is the Join SIG managing the following?: >> > 1. Event Planning >> > 2. Fedora Representation in Events >> > 3. Event Reporting >> > 4. Fedora Representation in Local or Regional areas >> >> Join SIG does not manage these things. This is what the Mindshare >> Committee manages (at least since 2018). >> >> I want to call out two things: >> >> 1. Fedora Advocates >> 2. Marie Nordin's proposal for future of Ambassadors >> >> First: In the last two years, Mindshare Committee tried to improve >> event >> organizing process. This is done through the Advocate program, >> managed >> by Mindshare Committee. I see this process working well for folks >> who >> use it. But I don't think we have done great at getting the word >> out: >> >> >> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/mindshare-committee/advocate/ >> >> Second: Marie Nordin (riecatnor) wrote a proposal for "Digital >> Ambassadors" and "Event Advocates". It is still under discussion >> but I >> encourage others to share their feedback on this proposal: >> >> https://pagure.io/mindshare/issue/145#comment-653606 >> >> I like this path forward so far, but still thinking on it. >> >> -- >> Cheers, >> Justin W. Flory (he/him) >> jwf.io >> TZ=America/New_York >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org >> To unsubscribe send an email to >> ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org >> Fedora Code of Conduct: >> https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ >> List Guidelines: >> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines >> List Archives: >> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec... >> > _______________________________________________ > ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to > ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec... >
--
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-- make me rich, buy my Inkscape book http://is.gd/yq5OD0 ;) _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
-- Vipul Siddharth He/His/Him Fedora | CentOS CI Infrastructure Team Red Hat w: vipul.dev
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Hi,
Pin-pon-ing email specific cases will not solve the problem, and are out of the scope of this conversation. I think the idea, if the ambassador title is meant to be kept in the Fedora Project, is to highligh where problems are found to solve them, by re-engaging or by replacing the process with a new one.
I see 2 parts here, as we all saw in Mindshare:
- Current ambassadors wanting to be recognized, having problems on recognize what "active" means and what they can do to log this "activity". - Newcommers wanting to became ambassadors having problems to find sponsorship/mentorship.
Both problems, from my perspective, can be solve by having a very well, direct to the point, defined "Active Ambassador Policy". This document need to be clear about how to measure this "activity", if this means that each ambassador needs to send a "I'm here" mail, so be it; if it means connect to an IRC channel, or attend a meeting, or whatever it needs to do, just do it. The problem comes when you (any of us) says: "I'm active" and then there is no place to look for activity:
- Mailing list - IRC meetings - FAS Activity
There needs to be something we can do to count that we are working. And here I have to talk about "us", because I consider myself still an Ambassador, my work is mostly off-line as ambassador: my region drops meetings, my region ML it's practically inactive; I have no practical ways to log or register work as ambassador. Maybe, and just maybe issues requesting funding, but as some of you highlight here, not all the activity requires funding.
Maybe, I think we can register all activity in a Pagure repo, as an issue, that can be opened when the activity is planned and closed when is complete, even if that activity doesn't require funding. That's an idea, and I will love to hear yours. Not discussions about "you did, I did, you didn't, I didn't"; just ideas on how we can measure an ambassador activity.
I agreed that you can't register or log every call, every meeting, every email you sent to host, create, organize or participate in an event, but the event itself need to be logged.
I hope we can redirect this email to the right way.
No the problems are way different
Am Di., 26. Mai 2020 um 04:51 Uhr schrieb Eduard Lucena < x3mboy@fedoraproject.org>:
Hi,
Pin-pon-ing email specific cases will not solve the problem, and are out of the scope of this conversation. I think the idea, if the ambassador title is meant to be kept in the Fedora Project, is to highligh where problems are found to solve them, by re-engaging or by replacing the process with a new one.
I see 2 parts here, as we all saw in Mindshare:
- Current ambassadors wanting to be recognized, having problems on
recognize what "active" means and what they can do to log this "activity".
Thats more the problem some of the metric lovers have
- Newcommers wanting to became ambassadors having problems to find
sponsorship/mentorship.
Newcomers dont belong to the Ambassadors, there was long time the idea to restrict it even more and make another group mandatory before you even can request to become Ambassador
Both problems, from my perspective, can be solve by having a very well, direct to the point, defined "Active Ambassador Policy". This document need to be clear about how to measure this "activity", if this means that each ambassador needs to send a "I'm here" mail, so be it; if it means connect to an IRC channel, or attend a meeting, or whatever it needs to do, just do it. The problem comes when you (any of us) says: "I'm active" and then there is no place to look for activity:
- Mailing list
- IRC meetings
- FAS Activity
and all of this are no indicator if ambassador work is done, I once said to Bex where you know this person is active because of the activity during meeting. Well sure meeting is during working time at RedHat outside the working time no activity. We have an ambassador who never set his foot out of the office ecept travelling to some FUDCons
There needs to be something we can do to count that we are working. And here I have to talk about "us", because I consider myself still an Ambassador, my work is mostly off-line as ambassador: my region drops meetings, my region ML it's practically inactive; I have no practical ways to log or register work as ambassador. Maybe, and just maybe issues requesting funding, but as some of you highlight here, not all the activity requires funding.
but you see yourself that this 3 things cant be measurement
Maybe, I think we can register all activity in a Pagure repo, as an issue, that can be opened when the activity is planned and closed when is complete, even if that activity doesn't require funding. That's an idea, and I will love to hear yours. Not discussions about "you did, I did, you didn't, I didn't"; just ideas on how we can measure an ambassador activity.
hell no, there are other ways but this can only put in place if the other problem is addressed first
I agreed that you can't register or log every call, every meeting, every email you sent to host, create, organize or participate in an event, but the event itself need to be logged.
I hope we can redirect this email to the right way.
-- Eduard Lucena Móvil: +56962318010 GNU/Linux User #589060 Ubuntu User #8749 Fedora Marketing Representative _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
On Mon, May 25, 2020, 22:51 Eduard Lucena x3mboy@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Hi,
Pin-pon-ing email specific cases will not solve the problem, and are out of the scope of this conversation. I think the idea, if the ambassador title is meant to be kept in the Fedora Project, is to highligh where problems are found to solve them, by re-engaging or by replacing the process with a new one.
I see 2 parts here, as we all saw in Mindshare:
- Current ambassadors wanting to be recognized, having problems on
recognize what "active" means and what they can do to log this "activity".
- Newcommers wanting to became ambassadors having problems to find
sponsorship/mentorship.
Both problems, from my perspective, can be solve by having a very well, direct to the point, defined "Active Ambassador Policy".
+1 that makes it very clear and should obviously allow for people to step back when they need to and become active again, knowing the requirements is key.
This document need to be clear about how to measure this "activity", if
this means that each ambassador needs to send a "I'm here" mail, so be it; if it means connect to an IRC channel, or attend a meeting, or whatever it needs to do, just do it. The problem comes when you (any of us) says: "I'm active" and then there is no place to look for activity:
- Mailing list
- IRC meetings
- FAS Activity
There needs to be something we can do to count that we are working. And here I have to talk about "us", because I consider myself still an Ambassador, my work is mostly off-line as ambassador: my region drops meetings, my region ML it's practically inactive; I have no practical ways to log or register work as ambassador. Maybe, and just maybe issues requesting funding, but as some of you highlight here, not all the activity requires funding.
Maybe, I think we can register all activity in a Pagure repo, as an issue, that can be opened when the activity is planned and closed when is complete, even if that activity doesn't require funding. That's an idea, and I will love to hear yours. Not discussions about "you did, I did, you didn't, I didn't"; just ideas on how we can measure an ambassador activity.
A general open tracker with backlog ideas would be helpful especially for those wanting to get involved and become an Ambassador. It could add help and easily become part of the onboarding process. It would also be a strong means to share what's working at local levels and inspire others.
I agreed that you can't register or log every call, every meeting, every email you sent to host, create, organize or participate in an event, but the event itself need to be logged.
I hope we can redirect this email to the right way.
+1 some great ideas here
-- Eduard Lucena Móvil: +56962318010 GNU/Linux User #589060 Ubuntu User #8749 Fedora Marketing Representative _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
Hi,
On 5/26/20 12:57 AM, Leigh Griffin wrote:
A general open tracker with backlog ideas would be helpful especially for those wanting to get involved and become an Ambassador. It could add help and easily become part of the onboarding process. It would also be a strong means to share what's working at local levels and inspire others.
Just curious, is this a different idea from the Fedora Join SIG on-boarding ticket tracker?
https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Welcome-to-Fedora/issues
It feels like this might already be the envisioned system but not sure if there is overlap there.
On 5/26/20 5:33 AM, Joerg Simon wrote:
So, as long as there is no one willing and able to step up as FAmA to do the slogger work and revive this dead patient, give freedom to those who invest their time trying to move this to a new place(joingroup/advocates) unbiased from the old battlegrounds - the time is long overdue to retire the Ambassador Group this will not diminish the work and the achievements done in this group in the past.
+1.
On 5/25/20 2:35 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
As you did very well read the ambassador requirements, you can explain me surly why your personal wiki page doesnt fullfill the requirements?
Oh, wiki pages are requirements? I don't ever remember this coming up when I became an Ambassador. How long was that a requirement?
Also, is this before or after we disabled non-CLA+1 wiki account registrations because of wiki spam?
On 5/25/20 2:35 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
We have there ambassador who count as highly active but they are just active during meetings, the job of the ambassador there is no activity.
Oh, I did not know Ambassadors in any region were meeting regularly. Do you have links to any recent meetings? I must have missed them!
On 5/25/20 3:59 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
This isnt bullying, this is exactly marking out how some of this strange decisions been made. There been some who had experiences it was never looked where the trouble came from and it was just declared a general problem
The Fedora Code of Conduct asks others to be considerate and to be respectful. Multiple times in this thread, you make bad-faith assumptions about the intentions and experiences of others. You are not being considerate or respectful.
On 5/25/20 10:04 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
Newcomers dont belong to the Ambassadors, there was long time the idea to restrict it even more and make another group mandatory before you even can request to become Ambassador
The gate-keeping of the "Ambassador" title has always disturbed me. Now I better remember why I avoid using the Ambassador title, because some specific people come and tell me I am not using it right and that it is for "experienced community members" only.
Whatever being an "experienced community member" means anyways. :-)
On Tuesday, 26 May 2020 at 14:22, Justin W. Flory (he/him) wrote: [...]
On 5/25/20 2:35 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
We have there ambassador who count as highly active but they are just active during meetings, the job of the ambassador there is no activity.
Oh, I did not know Ambassadors in any region were meeting regularly. Do you have links to any recent meetings? I must have missed them!
Yes. We used to have bi-weekly EMEA ambassadors meetings, but people stopped coming. We did try setting up a different time slot, but it didn't help. The last few meetings were just jonatoni and myself before we gave up.
Regards, Dominik
On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 1:24 PM Justin W. Flory (he/him) jflory7@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
On 5/26/20 12:57 AM, Leigh Griffin wrote:
A general open tracker with backlog ideas would be helpful especially for those wanting to get involved and become an Ambassador. It could add help and easily become part of the onboarding process. It would also be a strong means to share what's working at local levels and inspire
others.
Just curious, is this a different idea from the Fedora Join SIG on-boarding ticket tracker?
https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Welcome-to-Fedora/issues
It feels like this might already be the envisioned system but not sure if there is overlap there.
They could converge, my idea was more opportunities and things to work on so others could be inspired or help or participate. It also gives visibility to long running initiatives that might be invisible to the wider Community.
On 5/26/20 5:33 AM, Joerg Simon wrote:
So, as long as there is no one willing and able to step up as FAmA to do the slogger work and revive this dead patient, give freedom to those who invest their time trying to move this to a new place(joingroup/advocates) unbiased from the old battlegrounds - the time is long overdue to retire the Ambassador Group this will not diminish the work and the achievements done in this group in the past.
+1.
On 5/25/20 2:35 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
As you did very well read the ambassador requirements, you can explain me surly why your personal wiki page doesnt fullfill the requirements?
Oh, wiki pages are requirements? I don't ever remember this coming up when I became an Ambassador. How long was that a requirement?
Also, is this before or after we disabled non-CLA+1 wiki account registrations because of wiki spam?
On 5/25/20 2:35 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
We have there ambassador who count as highly active but they are just active during meetings, the job of the ambassador there is no activity.
Oh, I did not know Ambassadors in any region were meeting regularly. Do you have links to any recent meetings? I must have missed them!
On 5/25/20 3:59 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
This isnt bullying, this is exactly marking out how some of this strange decisions been made. There been some who had experiences it was never looked where the trouble came from and it was just declared a general problem
The Fedora Code of Conduct asks others to be considerate and to be respectful. Multiple times in this thread, you make bad-faith assumptions about the intentions and experiences of others. You are not being considerate or respectful.
On 5/25/20 10:04 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
Newcomers dont belong to the Ambassadors, there was long time the idea to restrict it even more and make another group mandatory before you even can request to become Ambassador
The gate-keeping of the "Ambassador" title has always disturbed me. Now I better remember why I avoid using the Ambassador title, because some specific people come and tell me I am not using it right and that it is for "experienced community members" only.
Whatever being an "experienced community member" means anyways. :-)
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory (he/him) jwf.io TZ=America/New_York
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
Hello.
I came late to this discussion and will admit to not having read all the responses. I did catch tatica's (María's) summation and agree with all that she said.
I wanted to add that it seems contribution to the Fedora project is a good goal for those who choose to get involved but not necessarily a requirement. We tend to measure someone's commitment to the project in that way. And it is probably not wrong to do so, but it isn't always an indicator. Not everyone could do something like that.
If someone wanted to get involved in a technical capacity, contribution at that level should be directed to the development team of the project. As tatica stated, ambassadors are ones to introduce and liaise with people with Fedora. We are involved at conferences but do not necessarily plan them. (Planning would be by those individuals who choose to take on that responsibility.) We engage, answer when we can, direct when we cannot.
I will state also for the record that I am at best a defunct ambassador. I do make too many conferences, but I am active at promoting Fedora within the conversations of my city's developer community. (Developer is probably not the best term as it really includes even more than simply DevOps.) Most of these people know I am a hard and fast Fedora fan/user. If the opportunity presents itself, I will endorse Fedora.
As for my contribution, I have not yet engaged in code development or packaging software, but I will assist in the #fedora support when I have time and know some answers. (It's not much, but I enjoy doing it when I can.)
My point in all this is that there is a distinction between ambassadors and contributors. As individuals, we as ambassadors can do both. As an entity within Fedora, that is not how the role is defined. Other groups are where those who want to contribute should land. We as ambassadors should know where to point them and help them find those places.
Mark (aka mock)
On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 11:35 AM Leigh Griffin lgriffin@redhat.com wrote:
On Tue, May 26, 2020 at 1:24 PM Justin W. Flory (he/him) < jflory7@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,
On 5/26/20 12:57 AM, Leigh Griffin wrote:
A general open tracker with backlog ideas would be helpful especially for those wanting to get involved and become an Ambassador. It could add help and easily become part of the onboarding process. It would also be a strong means to share what's working at local levels and inspire
others.
Just curious, is this a different idea from the Fedora Join SIG on-boarding ticket tracker?
https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Welcome-to-Fedora/issues
It feels like this might already be the envisioned system but not sure if there is overlap there.
They could converge, my idea was more opportunities and things to work on so others could be inspired or help or participate. It also gives visibility to long running initiatives that might be invisible to the wider Community.
On 5/26/20 5:33 AM, Joerg Simon wrote:
So, as long as there is no one willing and able to step up as FAmA to do the slogger work and revive this dead patient, give freedom to those who invest their time trying to move this to a new place(joingroup/advocates) unbiased from the old battlegrounds - the time is long overdue to retire the Ambassador Group this will not diminish the work and the achievements done in this group in the past.
+1.
On 5/25/20 2:35 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
As you did very well read the ambassador requirements, you can explain me surly why your personal wiki page doesnt fullfill the requirements?
Oh, wiki pages are requirements? I don't ever remember this coming up when I became an Ambassador. How long was that a requirement?
Also, is this before or after we disabled non-CLA+1 wiki account registrations because of wiki spam?
On 5/25/20 2:35 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
We have there ambassador who count as highly active but they are just active during meetings, the job of the ambassador there is no activity.
Oh, I did not know Ambassadors in any region were meeting regularly. Do you have links to any recent meetings? I must have missed them!
On 5/25/20 3:59 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
This isnt bullying, this is exactly marking out how some of this strange decisions been made. There been some who had experiences it was never looked where the trouble came from and it was just declared a general problem
The Fedora Code of Conduct asks others to be considerate and to be respectful. Multiple times in this thread, you make bad-faith assumptions about the intentions and experiences of others. You are not being considerate or respectful.
On 5/25/20 10:04 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
Newcomers dont belong to the Ambassadors, there was long time the idea to restrict it even more and make another group mandatory before you even can request to become Ambassador
The gate-keeping of the "Ambassador" title has always disturbed me. Now I better remember why I avoid using the Ambassador title, because some specific people come and tell me I am not using it right and that it is for "experienced community members" only.
Whatever being an "experienced community member" means anyways. :-)
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory (he/him) jwf.io TZ=America/New_York
ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
--
Leigh Griffin
Engineering Manager
Red Hat Waterford https://www.redhat.com/
Communications House
Cork Road, Waterford City
lgriffin@redhat.com M: +353877545162 IM: lgriffin @redhatjobs https://twitter.com/redhatjobs redhatjobs https://www.facebook.com/redhatjobs @redhatjobs https://instagram.com/redhatjobs https://red.ht/sig _______________________________________________ ambassadors mailing list -- ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to ambassadors-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/ambassadors@lists.fedoraprojec...
Hey Mark, thanks for weighing in.
On 5/27/20 9:10 AM, mark mcintyre wrote:
My point in all this is that there is a distinction between ambassadors and contributors. As individuals, we as ambassadors can do both. As an entity within Fedora, that is not how the role is defined. Other groups are where those who want to contribute should land. We as ambassadors should know where to point them and help them find those places.
The Fedora Join SIG focuses on redirecting and pointing new people in the right directions to contribute. It would be great to include long-time Ambassadors and Fedorans in that group because the mentorship by older folks in the community is equally important to bring in new folks too.
Mentorship is how we avoid burnout and keep the "human" part of Fedora more sustainable. I want to highlight the exciting work the Join SIG is doing to this end, and the great need for volunteers and mentors to help out there. :)
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-join/
Hi,
you shall have some answers now
Am Di., 26. Mai 2020 um 19:23 Uhr schrieb Justin W. Flory (he/him) < jflory7@gmail.com>:
Hi,
On 5/26/20 12:57 AM, Leigh Griffin wrote:
A general open tracker with backlog ideas would be helpful especially for those wanting to get involved and become an Ambassador. It could add help and easily become part of the onboarding process. It would also be a strong means to share what's working at local levels and inspire
others.
Just curious, is this a different idea from the Fedora Join SIG on-boarding ticket tracker?
https://pagure.io/fedora-join/Welcome-to-Fedora/issues
It feels like this might already be the envisioned system but not sure if there is overlap there.
On 5/26/20 5:33 AM, Joerg Simon wrote:
So, as long as there is no one willing and able to step up as FAmA to do the slogger work and revive this dead patient, give freedom to those who invest their time trying to move this to a new place(joingroup/advocates) unbiased from the old battlegrounds - the time is long overdue to retire the Ambassador Group this will not diminish the work and the achievements done in this group in the past.
+1.
On 5/25/20 2:35 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
As you did very well read the ambassador requirements, you can explain me surly why your personal wiki page doesnt fullfill the requirements?
Oh, wiki pages are requirements? I don't ever remember this coming up when I became an Ambassador. How long was that a requirement?
spoke the one who was short-cutted. Since FUDCon 2008 in Berlin, you find in the archives or RadioTux a nice interview with Jörg explaining this decisions
Also, is this before or after we disabled non-CLA+1 wiki account registrations because of wiki spam?
ooh really, just check the meeting logs of FAmSco back where I had a seat in it and who saw it as a problem, I also did sit down with Patrick during Flock and spoke with him, if we can find a solution.
On 5/25/20 2:35 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
We have there ambassador who count as highly active but they are just active during meetings, the job of the ambassador there is no activity.
Oh, I did not know Ambassadors in any region were meeting regularly. Do you have links to any recent meetings? I must have missed them!
stop twisting here things! When I say I spoke with Bex so how long might that be back then?
On 5/25/20 3:59 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
This isnt bullying, this is exactly marking out how some of this strange decisions been made. There been some who had experiences it was never looked where the trouble came from and it was just declared a general problem
The Fedora Code of Conduct asks others to be considerate and to be respectful. Multiple times in this thread, you make bad-faith assumptions about the intentions and experiences of others. You are not being considerate or respectful.
If someone speaks here "Back in 2010 ambassadors task was to be at events not to getting new contributors" then is this an assumption, you been ambassador back in 2010? Where do you take this from?
I prove you easily that was never intention at all. There are enough documents who prove that the ambassador leadership always reminded, just check Jörgs blog back in 2010 when I remember right. That proves the opposite. You can also look in my fedorapeople directory how old my 7 Ways to contribute to Fedora talk is.
And that is what I am against assumptions but this is what did happen with this advocates thing a lot of assumptions as base for the changes. And btw for me is such an assumption like you did an INSULT because you indirectly say we did a bad job and did not think on the future. So your CoC is always a thing of perspective and you should stop thinking you a judge for it.
Why you think there exist groups like NCoC, because where ever a CoC comes in people popup make themself moral guardian.
Honestly the advocates been created to give people the possibility to receive funds without the ambassadors, because there been long time the myth that you have to be one to receive it. And of course some had bad experiences as their refund/sponsoring been rejected. And exact that people made it topic in mindshare. Have you looked WHY it was rejected, I think not.
There been approaches how to change the situation at all bad they been made dead by enforcing something else
On 5/25/20 10:04 PM, S.Kemter wrote:
Newcomers dont belong to the Ambassadors, there was long time the idea to restrict it even more and make another group mandatory before you even can request to become Ambassador
The gate-keeping of the "Ambassador" title has always disturbed me. Now I better remember why I avoid using the Ambassador title, because some specific people come and tell me I am not using it right and that it is for "experienced community members" only.
Whatever being an "experienced community member" means anyways. :-)
-- Cheers, Justin W. Flory (he/him) jwf.io TZ=America/New_York
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Am 25.05.20 um 17:19 schrieb Leigh Griffin:
My role as the CPE Manager means I could have easily reached out to my own team or folks I know in the Council to force push me as an Ambassador.
it is cool that you have not - but that such things are even possible shows what might be wrong with our community
On Tue, 26 May 2020 at 13:17, Joerg Simon jsimon@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Am 25.05.20 um 17:19 schrieb Leigh Griffin:
My role as the CPE Manager means I could have easily reached out to my own team or folks I know in the Council to force push me as an Ambassador.
it is cool that you have not - but that such things are even possible shows what might be wrong with our community
This thread has gone on for long. It has a bit of rewriting of history; grudges and slights mentioned and other things which do not show the project in the best of light. For those who have been gently nudging about rethinking approaches to the program have previously undertaken attempts at reform and improvements. In some cases there have been good results - in others not so much. It might be best to update the ticket/issue with feedback which allows for a decision to be taken. The daily set of messages on this thread do not seem to accomplish much purpose other than creating a sense of deja vu.
I chose Joerg's response to provide the above input because by far it is the most clear articulation and acceptance of the need to change. I fear that the subject line of this thread is perhaps a portent (cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moirai) and that is why it might be best to arrive at a quick decision on the future of the Ambassador program.
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org