Me fellow ambassadors,
it is time to request the budget and a PO for the EMEA F17 media.
Historical figures
|| Release || Media || PO || Used || Ticket || || F14 || 6000 || USD 5000 || || #91 || || F15 || 5000 || USD 5000 || 3876 EUR || #157 || || F16 || 4000 || 4000 EUR || 2448 EUR || #218 ||
Observations
1. We did less and less media throughout the last years 2. I think we have reached the minimum. Jiri only has very few media left and we still have some more events left in the F16 cycle. And we could have spent more media on some events. AT CLT we were out of Multi Desktop DVDs and at IDLELO we did not have enough either. 3. In the F14 cycle we had 1000 media reserved for Africa and I think we should do this again. 4. In the F15 we had 1000 media reserved for Red Hat Czech. I think they want to do this again. 5. We managed to dramatically cut the costs by producing in Czech and placing one big order together with Red Hat. Shipping from the RH office has also been extremely comfortable so I think we should go for the Czech vendor again.
Open questions
1. How much media do we need? Go up to 5000 again? 2. Should we investigate the possibility to do the installer DVD as Dual Layer, too? We already have the tools, we just didn't do it because we wanted to have a backup for computers that cannot handle DL. AFAIC the NA ambassadors did it and received no complaints. We didn't for the Multi Desktop DVD, either.
I have asked Jiri to request the following quotes: * 2000 Multi Desktop DL, 1000 Installer 32, 1000 Installer 64 (same as last year) * 3000 Multi Desktop DL, 1000 Installer 32, 1000 Installer 64 * 2000 Multi Desktop DL, 2000 Installer DL * 3000 Multi Desktop DL, 2000 Installer DL
The 4th option looks good to me. Comments or questionsanybody? Ask here or at https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/280
Kind regards, Christoph
I agree, than we are in the bottom limit. For instance I had a request for just for 20 or so and I never got them because they were already gone.
In my opinion we could save some for the smaller local events. In example here in southern Spain we do not have any big events but I intend to give DVDs away in smaller interest groups.
Therefore I think 6000 should be the figure.
-- Jukka
On Thu, 2012-03-29 at 22:41 +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:
Me fellow ambassadors,
it is time to request the budget and a PO for the EMEA F17 media.
Historical figures
|| Release || Media || PO || Used || Ticket || || F14 || 6000 || USD 5000 || || #91 || || F15 || 5000 || USD 5000 || 3876 EUR || #157 || || F16 || 4000 || 4000 EUR || 2448 EUR || #218 ||
Observations
1. We did less and less media throughout the last years 2. I think we have reached the minimum. Jiri only has very few media left and we still have some more events left in the F16 cycle. And we could have spent more media on some events. AT CLT we were out of Multi Desktop DVDs and at IDLELO we did not have enough either. 3. In the F14 cycle we had 1000 media reserved for Africa and I think we should do this again. 4. In the F15 we had 1000 media reserved for Red Hat Czech. I think they want to do this again. 5. We managed to dramatically cut the costs by producing in Czech and placing one big order together with Red Hat. Shipping from the RH office has also been extremely comfortable so I think we should go for the Czech vendor again.Open questions
1. How much media do we need? Go up to 5000 again? 2. Should we investigate the possibility to do the installer DVD as Dual Layer, too? We already have the tools, we just didn't do it because we wanted to have a backup for computers that cannot handle DL. AFAIC the NA ambassadors did it and received no complaints. We didn't for the Multi Desktop DVD, either.I have asked Jiri to request the following quotes: * 2000 Multi Desktop DL, 1000 Installer 32, 1000 Installer 64 (same as last year) * 3000 Multi Desktop DL, 1000 Installer 32, 1000 Installer 64 * 2000 Multi Desktop DL, 2000 Installer DL * 3000 Multi Desktop DL, 2000 Installer DL
The 4th option looks good to me. Comments or questionsanybody? Ask here or at https://fedorahosted.org/famsco/ticket/280
Kind regards, Christoph
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:41 PM, Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert@googlemail.com wrote:
Me fellow ambassadors,
it is time to request the budget and a PO for the EMEA F17 media.
Historical figures
|| Release || Media || PO || Used || Ticket || || F14 || 6000 || USD 5000 || || #91 || || F15 || 5000 || USD 5000 || 3876 EUR || #157 || || F16 || 4000 || 4000 EUR || 2448 EUR || #218 ||
Observations
1. We did less and less media throughout the last years 2. I think we have reached the minimum. Jiri only has very few media left and we still have some more events left in the F16 cycle. And we could have spent more media on some events. AT CLT we were out of Multi Desktop DVDs and at IDLELO we did not have enough either. 3. In the F14 cycle we had 1000 media reserved for Africa and I think we should do this again. 4. In the F15 we had 1000 media reserved for Red Hat Czech. I think they want to do this again. 5. We managed to dramatically cut the costs by producing in Czech and placing one big order together with Red Hat. Shipping from the RH office has also been extremely comfortable so I think we should go for the Czech vendor again.
The release should be the 15th of May. Our big release party in France is the 2nd of June. If we could make it, fine. If not, coud we try to have a local production? I could come back with a budget request soon (I am waiting for the reply to take action). In an other side, we could also see for the general EMEA production here in france, as proposed for last release. Price was quite the same as for the Czech vendor (but the vendor was shipping directly to several location, that would be faster). Quote needed, or we don't check and stay with last vendor?
Open questions
1. How much media do we need? Go up to 5000 again?
Please, could we include a fixed amount, predefined for the French community? We don't need installation media, people only want Live media here. If we still do the multi desktop/arch one, that would be great. At least 700 would do it (we have our huge Solution Linux the 19-21th of June). If not, Live x86_64 only. I would remind you also that our default download option is now x86_64 (we are going to have less 32b requests).
[snip]
Cheers,
----- Original Message ----- From: "Kévin Raymond" shaiton@fedoraproject.org To: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 3:51:48 PM Subject: Re: [Ambassadors] EMEA F17 media production
On Thu, Mar 29, 2012 at 10:41 PM, Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert@googlemail.com wrote:
Me fellow ambassadors,
it is time to request the budget and a PO for the EMEA F17 media.
Historical figures
|| Release || Media || PO || Used || Ticket || || F14 || 6000 || USD 5000 || || #91 || || F15 || 5000 || USD 5000 || 3876 EUR || #157 || || F16 || 4000 || 4000 EUR || 2448 EUR || #218 ||
Observations
1. We did less and less media throughout the last years 2. I think we have reached the minimum. Jiri only has very few media left and we still have some more events left in the F16 cycle. And we could have spent more media on some events. AT CLT we were out of Multi Desktop DVDs and at IDLELO we did not have enough either. 3. In the F14 cycle we had 1000 media reserved for Africa and I think we should do this again. 4. In the F15 we had 1000 media reserved for Red Hat Czech. I think they want to do this again. 5. We managed to dramatically cut the costs by producing in Czech and placing one big order together with Red Hat. Shipping from the RH office has also been extremely comfortable so I think we should go for the Czech vendor again.
The release should be the 15th of May. Our big release party in France is the 2nd of June. If we could make it, fine. If not, coud we try to have a local production? I could come back with a budget request soon (I am waiting for the reply to take action). In an other side, we could also see for the general EMEA production here in france, as proposed for last release. Price was quite the same as for the Czech vendor (but the vendor was shipping directly to several location, that would be faster). Quote needed, or we don't check and stay with last vendor?
If Fedora release is not again delayed I think we can make it by June 2nd. I'm afraid sending media directly from the vendor doesn't save much time. For example F16 media for France went directly from the vendor and they arrived about the same time as media that were delivered to our office and sent with Fedex. If we send it via Fedex we can use the corporate rate, that Red Hat has, which is significantly lower than normal prices. We also have better control over packages. We can send exact numbers, include letters for customs etc. Accounting was also very smooth. Red Hat Czech bought 1,000 DVDs and sharing the order helped both RHC and Fedora community lower the unit cost. Ordering media from abroad for us, Red Hat Czech, would be much more complicated in terms of accounting. Last, but not least, first time with a vendor is always most difficult. There were some small problems and misunderstandings that I think have been solved. We've communicated and clarified time and quality requirements, what we have to provide as artworks etc. That's something we would have to go through with a new vendor again. Splitting the media into several orders wouldn't be very cheap, I'm afraid. The unit cost goes down with higher quantity a lot. For example normal DVDs cost almost 15 CZK per unit in 1,000 quantities, DL DVDs cost something above 10 CZK per unit in 3,000 quantity. I'm not fighting for doing it in the Czech Republic again. In fact, it means much more work for me, but I think the advantages were worth the work.
Jiri
If Fedora release is not again delayed I think we can make it by June 2nd. I'm afraid sending media directly from the vendor doesn't save much time. For example F16 media for France went directly from the vendor and they arrived about the same time as media that were delivered to our office and sent with Fedex. If we send it via Fedex we can use the corporate rate, that Red Hat has, which is significantly lower than normal prices. We also have better control over packages. We can send exact numbers, include letters for customs etc. Accounting was also very smooth. Red Hat Czech bought 1,000 DVDs and sharing the order helped both RHC and Fedora community lower the unit cost. Ordering media from abroad for us, Red Hat Czech, would be much more complicated in terms of accounting. Last, but not least, first time with a vendor is always most difficult. There were some small problems and misunderstandings that I think have been solved. We've communicated and clarified time and quality requirements, what we have to provide as artworks etc. That's something we would have to go through with a new vendor again. Splitting the media into several orders wouldn't be very cheap, I'm afraid. The unit cost goes down with higher quantity a lot. For example normal DVDs cost almost 15 CZK per unit in 1,000 quantities, DL DVDs cost something above 10 CZK per unit in 3,000 quantity. I'm not fighting for doing it in the Czech Republic again. In fact, it means much more work for me, but I think the advantages were worth the work.
Jiri
I completly agree that it is a reall gain for us (EMEA) to work with Brno for media production.
We would have quotes for * 2000 Multi Desktop DL, 1000 Installer 32, 1000 Installer 64 * 3000 Multi Desktop DL, 1000 Installer 32, 1000 Installer 64
Jiri, could you then please tell us the unit price difference for the Multi Desktop DL? I could come up with a quote for 1000 Multi Desktop DL, if it's basically the same price, we could think about a small (1000) production here in France, therefore we would be able to ship some for the Release Parties with a short deadline. Of course, it would work only if we could have them before yours. It costs nothing to ask see later if it is a bad idea, or not. (Spreading shipment is not necessarily more expensive).
Am Freitag, den 30.03.2012, 16:46 +0200 schrieb Kévin Raymond:
I completly agree that it is a reall gain for us (EMEA) to work with Brno for media production.
+1
We would have quotes for
- 2000 Multi Desktop DL, 1000 Installer 32, 1000 Installer 64
- 3000 Multi Desktop DL, 1000 Installer 32, 1000 Installer 64
Why no DL installers?
Jiri, could you then please tell us the unit price difference for the Multi Desktop DL?
Again, it is not the unit price that matters but the unit price depends on the quantity rather then the DVD itself.
I could come up with a quote for 1000 Multi Desktop DL, if it's basically the same price, we could think about a small (1000) production here in France, therefore we would be able to ship some for the Release Parties with a short deadline. Of course, it would work only if we could have them before yours.
I have worked on media production for quite a while now (since F13) and I can only warn you. It's not so much the actual production or the shipping, in fact shipping with FedEx from Brno was the fastet thing we ever had I think.
The major problems are the graphics. All vendors have slightly different sizes and use different tools. Over time you will know all these tiny differences, but when you work with a vendor for the first time, you will face problems which result in delay.
Therefor I doubt that there is any benefit in producing an additinal batch in France. I don't think it will be any faster but it will require more work because you and Jiri would be doing the same work and have the same conversations - but with two different companies. We will require more work from the design team. And we cannot be sure that both vendors produce the same quality.
Last but not least I don't think that the French community should be treated different form the rest of Europe.
Don't get me wrong: You can give it a try and ask for a quote, but I wouldn't do it.
Kind regards, Christoph
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 5:05 PM, Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert@googlemail.com wrote:
Am Freitag, den 30.03.2012, 16:46 +0200 schrieb Kévin Raymond:
I completly agree that it is a reall gain for us (EMEA) to work with Brno for media production.
+1
We would have quotes for
- 2000 Multi Desktop DL, 1000 Installer 32, 1000 Installer 64
- 3000 Multi Desktop DL, 1000 Installer 32, 1000 Installer 64
Why no DL installers?
I just snipped them because there were not revelant here. But you're right, I should have written that.
Jiri, could you then please tell us the unit price difference for the Multi Desktop DL?
Again, it is not the unit price that matters but the unit price depends on the quantity rather then the DVD itself.
Sure, that's why I've asked the above.
I could come up with a quote for 1000 Multi Desktop DL, if it's basically the same price, we could think about a small (1000) production here in France, therefore we would be able to ship some for the Release Parties with a short deadline. Of course, it would work only if we could have them before yours.
I have worked on media production for quite a while now (since F13) and I can only warn you. It's not so much the actual production or the shipping, in fact shipping with FedEx from Brno was the fastet thing we ever had I think.
The major problems are the graphics. All vendors have slightly different sizes and use different tools. Over time you will know all these tiny differences, but when you work with a vendor for the first time, you will face problems which result in delay.
Therefor I doubt that there is any benefit in producing an additinal batch in France. I don't think it will be any faster but it will require more work because you and Jiri would be doing the same work and have the same conversations - but with two different companies. We will require more work from the design team. And we cannot be sure that both vendors produce the same quality.
Since Fedora 10 we had already produced French media I think. We have only requested few times to EMEA (3 times If I recall well), as we have add some founds from Red Hat at a certain time.
And we have changed at least two times our vendor. For us it's easy, we don't have so much work to do, they are able to deal with basic graphics from the design team, and they are producing 1000 media in a week.
Last but not least I don't think that the French community should be treated different form the rest of Europe.
Nether am I, or I would not read this list or attend meetings ;) But who else are trying to improve things here? You have tried with the German companies, who are more expensive. Jiri (and probably others) also. And I. I insist cause I know that the prices are not so expensives.
Don't get me wrong: You can give it a try and ask for a quote, but I wouldn't do it.
I will, it's only matter of an email.
Kind regards, Christoph
On Fri, 2012-03-30 at 17:17 +0200, Kévin Raymond wrote:
Since Fedora 10 we had already produced French media I think. We have only requested few times to EMEA (3 times If I recall well), as we have add some founds from Red Hat at a certain time.
If I dug correctly in my archives, the first time we checked prices for CDs is during the summer of 2008. However, I can't find if that was for F9 or F10 CDs.
Pierre
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Pierre-Yves Chibon pingou@pingoured.fr wrote:
On Fri, 2012-03-30 at 17:17 +0200, Kévin Raymond wrote:
Since Fedora 10 we had already produced French media I think. We have only requested few times to EMEA (3 times If I recall well), as we have add some founds from Red Hat at a certain time.
If I dug correctly in my archives, the first time we checked prices for CDs is during the summer of 2008. However, I can't find if that was for F9 or F10 CDs.
Pierre
FYI,
I just received the quote, the dual layer Master media is at 312€ and for 1000 media it is 0.48 per units. Total cost with taxes is 947€. Ok, that's expensive for only a bunch of 1000. We could also produce all media from one type on one location, and others on the other location…
Am Montag, den 02.04.2012, 20:30 +0200 schrieb Kévin Raymond:
On Fri, Mar 30, 2012 at 10:30 PM, Pierre-Yves Chibon pingou@pingoured.fr wrote:
On Fri, 2012-03-30 at 17:17 +0200, Kévin Raymond wrote:
Since Fedora 10 we had already produced French media I think. We have only requested few times to EMEA (3 times If I recall well), as we have add some founds from Red Hat at a certain time.
If I dug correctly in my archives, the first time we checked prices for CDs is during the summer of 2008. However, I can't find if that was for F9 or F10 CDs.
Pierre
FYI,
I just received the quote, the dual layer Master media is at 312€ and for 1000 media it is 0.48 per units. Total cost with taxes is 947€. Ok, that's expensive for only a bunch of 1000. We could also produce all media from one type on one location, and others on the other location…
Which then means we have to ship two packages for every event, one from France with these media and one from Czech with the others. we have different qualities of media on every event.
The 2nd reason is not that important, but the first one really scares me. I am afraid of all the overhead.
Kind regards, Christoph
On 30/03/12 16:05, Christoph Wickert wrote:
Am Freitag, den 30.03.2012, 16:46 +0200 schrieb Kévin Raymond:
I completly agree that it is a reall gain for us (EMEA) to work with Brno for media production.
+1
We would have quotes for
- 2000 Multi Desktop DL, 1000 Installer 32, 1000 Installer 64
- 3000 Multi Desktop DL, 1000 Installer 32, 1000 Installer 64
Why no DL installers?
Jiri, could you then please tell us the unit price difference for the Multi Desktop DL?
Again, it is not the unit price that matters but the unit price depends on the quantity rather then the DVD itself.
I could come up with a quote for 1000 Multi Desktop DL, if it's basically the same price, we could think about a small (1000) production here in France, therefore we would be able to ship some for the Release Parties with a short deadline. Of course, it would work only if we could have them before yours.
I have worked on media production for quite a while now (since F13) and I can only warn you. It's not so much the actual production or the shipping, in fact shipping with FedEx from Brno was the fastet thing we ever had I think.
The major problems are the graphics. All vendors have slightly different sizes and use different tools. Over time you will know all these tiny differences, but when you work with a vendor for the first time, you will face problems which result in delay.
Therefor I doubt that there is any benefit in producing an additinal batch in France. I don't think it will be any faster but it will require more work because you and Jiri would be doing the same work and have the same conversations - but with two different companies. We will require more work from the design team. And we cannot be sure that both vendors produce the same quality.
Last but not least I don't think that the French community should be treated different form the rest of Europe.
Don't get me wrong: You can give it a try and ask for a quote, but I wouldn't do it.
Kind regards, Christoph
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
Christoph,
Might it not be a good idea to write all these nifty little details down ? As the discussions have been going on about ambassador swag and quality standards in terms of looks and compliance with the TM guidelines, it might be wise to write the knowledge, you and the other guys who organised the media, acquired, to be shared for the future. As pointed out to Mairin, there are loads of people volunteering who have got no clue about graphic design issues/printing issue.
This also applies to any swag produced.
Regards,
Tristan
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org
-
Christoph Wickert -
Jiri Eischmann -
Jukka Palander, IT Development Spain -
Kévin Raymond -
Pierre-Yves Chibon -
Tristan Santore