Hi, Fedora 23 is just around corner and we haven't discussed media production yet. For F22, produced 2,000 Workstation DVDs and 1,000 Alternative Desktops DVDs.
A couple of facts: * the minimal amount to order is 1,000 * 2,000 DVDs of Workstation was just enough for this cycle, we ran out of them just a couple of weeks before a new release, we still have a couple of hundred of Alternative Desktops ones though. * unit price if you produce 1,000 is 40% higher than if you produce 2,000.
We can go with the same amounts again, at the regional meeting, someone suggested that we should go with a lower amount. In this case, it would make sense to only produce the minimal amount of Workstation ones.
Status of DVD alternatives: * USB sticks are still >10x more expensive than DVDs unfortunately, they're faulty and too slow to load. Not an option to fully replace DVDs nowadays. * we've released a 'Getting Started with Fedora' handbook, it doesn't include any media with Fedora, but tells users how to create one and provides much more info about Fedora. And it's very close to DVDs price-wise: https://eischmann.wordpress.com/2015/10/14/getting-started-with-fedora-handb...
Opinions, ideas?
Jiri
Il 14/ott/2015 11:44 PM, "Jiri Eischmann" jeischma@redhat.com ha scritto:
Hi, Fedora 23 is just around corner and we haven't discussed media production
yet. For F22, produced 2,000 Workstation DVDs and 1,000 Alternative Desktops DVDs.
A couple of facts:
- the minimal amount to order is 1,000
- 2,000 DVDs of Workstation was just enough for this cycle, we ran out of
them just a couple of weeks before a new release, we still have a couple of hundred of Alternative Desktops ones though.
- unit price if you produce 1,000 is 40% higher than if you produce 2,000.
We can go with the same amounts again, at the regional meeting, someone
suggested that we should go with a lower amount. In this case, it would make sense to only produce the minimal amount of Workstation ones.
Status of DVD alternatives:
- USB sticks are still >10x more expensive than DVDs unfortunately,
they're faulty and too slow to load. Not an option to fully replace DVDs nowadays.
- we've released a 'Getting Started with Fedora' handbook, it doesn't
include any media with Fedora, but tells users how to create one and provides much more info about Fedora. And it's very close to DVDs price-wise: https://eischmann.wordpress.com/2015/10/14/getting-started-with-fedora-handb...
Opinions, ideas?
Jiri
ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
There are some points we need to consider here, because actually we don't have an alternative Desktops DVD for F23.
1) If we want to produce less DVDs it would probably make sense to produce only the minimum amount of workstation DVDs as there is less request for them at every release. So no alternative desktop DVDs at all.
2) If we want to go for the same amount (2k + 1k), and I'm in favour of keeping also alternative desktop DVDs as largely discussed for F22, we have to decide the spins we want on it. Remember we'll have also a new Desktop Spin (Cinnamon).
Probably we have a few days more as the schedule says, but we should decide the direction we want to go soon (and it is not only for EMEA), as there is also a design task pending on that (covers).
Opinions?
Kind regards.
-- Robert Mayr (robyduck)
Il giorno mer, 14/10/2015 alle 17.44 -0400, Jiri Eischmann ha scritto:
We can go with the same amounts again, at the regional meeting, someone suggested that we should go with a lower amount. In this case, it would make sense to only produce the minimal amount of Workstation ones.
+1
Workstation and Alternate DVDs went equally well here in Italy: I was thinking if it could be possible to have a single DVD with Workstation plus some popular environment coming from Alternate.
As robyduck said, if we are going to produce F23 Alternate DVDs we cannot include every environment due to space restrictions, so, in both cases we have to make a decision about what should be included and what not.
I understand that it sounds like a strange proposal, that it could be too late (and I'm sorry for that) and that maybe it could weaken the Workstation brand, but we had something similar in the past (multi-live DVDs) and we could use the whole DVD space. That means we could have a single medium, produce 1000-2000 of them, spending less, and allowing people to try/install some alternative environments if they want to.
- we've released a 'Getting Started with Fedora' handbook, it doesn't
include any media with Fedora, but tells users how to create one and provides much more info about Fedora. And it's very close to DVDs price-wise: https://eischmann.wordpress.com/2015/10/14/getting -started-with-fedora-handbook/
I really like it and it seems like the vast majority of the Italian community would prefer handbooks over DVDs.
I have a few questions about the Getting Started with Fedora handbook: 1. I don't understand Czech, but I see no reference to Fedora four foundations: is it correct? I think it will be nice to have a brief introduction on what is Fedora and how it differs. 2. If local communities could translate the handbook in no time, when they could be shipped? It would nice to have them for our release parties. 3. What about placing it on live DVD desktop? I know, I think too much about unused DVD space :)
Thanks for your work, Francesco Frassinelli (frafra)
Il 28/ott/2015 11:47 PM, "Francesco Frassinelli" fraph24@gmail.com ha scritto:
Il giorno mer, 14/10/2015 alle 17.44 -0400, Jiri Eischmann ha scritto:
We can go with the same amounts again, at the regional meeting, someone suggested that we should go with a lower amount. In this case, it would make sense to only produce the minimal amount of Workstation ones.
+1
Workstation and Alternate DVDs went equally well here in Italy: I was thinking if it could be possible to have a single DVD with Workstation plus some popular environment coming from Alternate.
As robyduck said, if we are going to produce F23 Alternate DVDs we cannot include every environment due to space restrictions, so, in both cases we have to make a decision about what should be included and what not.
I understand that it sounds like a strange proposal, that it could be too late (and I'm sorry for that) and that maybe it could weaken the Workstation brand, but we had something similar in the past (multi-live DVDs) and we could use the whole DVD space. That means we could have a single medium, produce 1000-2000 of them, spending less, and allowing people to try/install some alternative environments if they want to.
Just as a note, we started this discussion already late for the original F23 release date. There was no reply at all about it, neither about the content. So it's rather theoretical speaking about the quantity of DVDs to be produced when we don't have the product itself. Furthermore, adding a Spin on an Edition DVD is not an option at all, we have three main editions and since F21 we want to promote them differently and don't want to mix them up. This would mean throwing into the trashcan all the efforts we took in place for fedora.next.
Finally the actual state for EMEA only is to produce 1000 Workstation DVDs, as the overall request in our Region has been less and less in the last year's. Not sure if there has been an update about that, but I didn't see any.
Kind regards. Robert
Il 28/ott/2015 11:47 PM, "Francesco Frassinelli" fraph24@gmail.com ha scritto:
Il giorno mer, 14/10/2015 alle 17.44 -0400, Jiri Eischmann ha scritto:
We can go with the same amounts again, at the regional meeting, someone suggested that we should go with a lower amount. In this case, it would make sense to only produce the minimal amount of Workstation ones.
+1
Workstation and Alternate DVDs went equally well here in Italy: I was thinking if it could be possible to have a single DVD with Workstation plus some popular environment coming from Alternate.
As robyduck said, if we are going to produce F23 Alternate DVDs we cannot include every environment due to space restrictions, so, in both cases we have to make a decision about what should be included and what not.
I understand that it sounds like a strange proposal, that it could be too late (and I'm sorry for that) and that maybe it could weaken the Workstation brand, but we had something similar in the past (multi-live DVDs) and we could use the whole DVD space. That means we could have a single medium, produce 1000-2000 of them, spending less, and allowing people to try/install some alternative environments if they want to.
Just as a note, we started this discussion already late for the original F23 release date. There was no reply at all about it, neither about the content. So it's rather theoretical speaking about the quantity of DVDs to be produced when we don't have the product itself. Furthermore, adding a Spin on an Edition DVD is not an option at all, we have three main editions and since F21 we want to promote them differently and don't want to mix them up. This would mean throwing into the trashcan all the efforts we took in place for fedora.next.
Finally the actual state for EMEA only is to produce 1000 Workstation DVDs, as the overall request in our Region has been less and less in the last year's. Not sure if there has been an update about that, but I didn't see any.
Kind regards. Robert --
I am more or less against media for the widest part of EMEA because most of the EMEA Countrys (at least in Western Europe) have a good broadband coverage to download the ISO and if needed burn it. Medias are making sense for EMEA countrys with less broadband coverage like in the Africa or some parts of the near East. And also, every ISO we produce is outdated because she is not up2date and need to be updated. Have you ever done it in the past? After a fresh install from DvD you need to download tons of bytes to be updated. BUT I also agree with the continous request on every event to get a Fedora DvD. But what causes that request? Is it the DvD with the release version? I don't think so! Is it the sleeve itself? I also don't think so! From my perspective I think it is just a "original" DvD sleeve in combination with the printed Artwork on the DvD ... Why we don't announce, that we have on every event a Maschine, where everyone can get his own ISO (no matter on which media)? That proposal is much more cheaper than producing thousends of DvD, ship them with high costs through EMEA (not just Western Europe) and saves us money for more important things like events, funding trips of Ambassadors or make an event in a Country happen, where is no Fedora presense so far.
Just my five cents Gerold
* Gerold [29/10/2015 09:08] :
And also, every ISO we produce is outdated because she is not up2date and need to be updated. Have you ever done it in the past? After a fresh install from DvD you need to download tons of bytes to be updated.
The upside of this is that you don't have to run the QA process every few weeks on an updated ISO.
Why we don't announce, that we have on every event a Maschine, where everyone can get his own ISO (no matter on which media)?
The french team has done this in the past. It ended up being a very slow process (to the point where we had to ask people to come back to reclaim their usb keys). It's also a bigger drain of human ressources (it was impossible to do if we had only two people manning the booth).
Emmanuel
- Gerold [29/10/2015 09:08] :
And also, every ISO we produce is outdated because she is not up2date and need to be updated. Have you ever done it in the past? After a fresh install from DvD you need to download tons of bytes to be updated.
The upside of this is that you don't have to run the QA process every few weeks on an updated ISO.
Why we don't announce, that we have on every event a Maschine, where everyone can get his own ISO (no matter on which media)?
The french team has done this in the past. It ended up being a very slow process (to the point where we had to ask people to come back to reclaim their usb keys). It's also a bigger drain of human ressources (it was impossible to do if we had only two people manning the booth).
Emmanuel
^^ Bonjour Emmanuel,
well done! why you don't let the requester do it by his own to get "his version" and flavour? You/we can maybe provide blank DvD's (and maybe just sleeves) and a PC with a burner inside, and till he waits for the creating the Boot-DvD or Boot-USB key you can get in touch with him, ... it also creates a possibility to talk to them who just come and take :-) We did several years ago with Fedora 8 at Linuxtag in berlin and the burn station was the absolute Hype. That big, that also the local LUG came and helped us with burning (we were in the mouth of everybody) ...
Gerold
Il giorno gio, 29/10/2015 alle 09.55 +0100, Gerold ha scritto:
- Gerold [29/10/2015 09:08] :
And also, every ISO we produce is outdated because she is not up2date and need to be updated. Have you ever done it in the past? After a fresh install from DvD you need to download tons of bytes to be updated.
The upside of this is that you don't have to run the QA process every few weeks on an updated ISO.
Why we don't announce, that we have on every event a Maschine, where everyone can get his own ISO (no matter on which media)?
The french team has done this in the past. It ended up being a very slow process (to the point where we had to ask people to come back to reclaim their usb keys). It's also a bigger drain of human ressources (it was impossible to do if we had only two people manning the booth).
Emmanuel
^^ Bonjour Emmanuel,
well done! why you don't let the requester do it by his own to get "his version" and flavour? You/we can maybe provide blank DvD's (and maybe just sleeves) and a PC with a burner inside, and till he waits for the creating the Boot-DvD or Boot-USB key you can get in touch with him, ... it also creates a possibility to talk to them who just come and take :-) We did several years ago with Fedora 8 at Linuxtag in berlin and the burn station was the absolute Hype. That big, that also the local LUG came and helped us with burning (we were in the mouth of everybody) ...
I really like your idea for the reasons you explained.
I think we should have a software which allows multiple media creation at the same time. I am more concerned about concurrency than speed, because if people can't produce their media at the same time, they'll ask ambassadors to do it for them while they're away ("oh, there are 5 people in line, could you do this for me? I'll come back later"). If this happens, we'll get almost no human interaction and we are just media producers.
If we use one (or more) big USB hubs and a special software for a self service machine we could easily solve this problem, but is not the same for DVD burning (we cannot have many DVD burners). We can assume that in the future less people will request DVDs. We can ask them to bring theirs USB drives and keep the DVD burner as fallback.
Two questions for you: 1. Should we provide a self-service machine, where, in the meanwhile, we talk with people, or should we produce the media? I prefer the first option, because I prefer to talk with people and replying to theirs answers than taking orders for media creation ;) 2. How do you think it will looks like? Like a standard laptop/pc with a "Fedora burning machine" logo, an ARM board inside a Fedora carboard, or what? I think that we could make something very nice and friendly with a bit of imagination and creativity :)
-- Frafra
Il giorno gio, 29/10/2015 alle 09.55 +0100, Gerold ha scritto:
- Gerold [29/10/2015 09:08] :
And also, every ISO we produce is outdated because she is not up2date and need to be updated. Have you ever done it in the past? After a fresh install from DvD you need to download tons of bytes to be updated.
The upside of this is that you don't have to run the QA process every few weeks on an updated ISO.
Why we don't announce, that we have on every event a Maschine, where everyone can get his own ISO (no matter on which media)?
The french team has done this in the past. It ended up being a very slow process (to the point where we had to ask people to come back to reclaim their usb keys). It's also a bigger drain of human ressources (it was impossible to do if we had only two people manning the booth).
Emmanuel
^^ Bonjour Emmanuel,
well done! why you don't let the requester do it by his own to get "his version" and flavour? You/we can maybe provide blank DvD's (and maybe just sleeves) and a PC with a burner inside, and till he waits for the creating the Boot-DvD or Boot-USB key you can get in touch with him, ... it also creates a possibility to talk to them who just come and take :-) We did several years ago with Fedora 8 at Linuxtag in berlin and the burn station was the absolute Hype. That big, that also the local LUG came and helped us with burning (we were in the mouth of everybody) ...
I really like your idea for the reasons you explained.
I think we should have a software which allows multiple media creation at the same time. I am more concerned about concurrency than speed, because if people can't produce their media at the same time, they'll ask ambassadors to do it for them while they're away ("oh, there are 5 people in line, could you do this for me? I'll come back later"). If this happens, we'll get almost no human interaction and we are just media producers.
If we use one (or more) big USB hubs and a special software for a self service machine we could easily solve this problem, but is not the same for DVD burning (we cannot have many DVD burners). We can assume that in the future less people will request DVDs. We can ask them to bring theirs USB drives and keep the DVD burner as fallback.
Two questions for you:
- Should we provide a self-service machine, where, in the meanwhile,
we talk with people, or should we produce the media? I prefer the first option, because I prefer to talk with people and replying to theirs answers than taking orders for media creation ;) 2. How do you think it will looks like? Like a standard laptop/pc with a "Fedora burning machine" logo, an ARM board inside a Fedora carboard, or what? I think that we could make something very nice and friendly with a bit of imagination and creativity :)
-- Frafra
For sure, you will have at the beginning of a day (at the opening and the next maybe 1-2 h) maybe a larger queue (depends on the release date and the date of the event :-) rule: as closer both dates are to each other, as bigger the queue), but it closes down by time. Why not have a queue? Is a queue a bad sign? NO, more or less in the opposite way ... It makes the people also talk to each other; don't forget we're Community and openSource :-) Because of the provided "maschine"; form my POV it doesn't matter what kinda maschine it is, maybe just a laptop which is in a corner of your table (secured with a lock) and a HOWTO - burn a DvD - create the Live-USB-Key - get in touch with us outside the event If people see, how busy you are in talking to the audience, nobody will disturb you to ask "could you please so kind and create ...."; they will listen and wait till they can place their questions, be sure. And as long as the queue exists it also show to the audience, there is something special, something interesting and we get (additional) attention. Beeing at an event is just and only: Get attention, no matter how! Interest the audience for YOUR idea, mind and Fedora and show what we have to show.
Gerold
* Gerold [29/10/2015 09:55] :
well done! why you don't let the requester do it by his own to get "his version" and flavour? You/we can maybe provide blank DvD's (and maybe just sleeves) and a PC with a burner inside, and till he waits for the creating the Boot-DvD or Boot-USB key you can get in touch with him, ...
In pratice, this was a laptop (mine, usually) with a DVD burner and a USB cable in which people could plug their USB keys. The machine was hidden by a cardboard sign explaining what they would be getting.
One problem with this setup is that it's quite bulky. The sign was a hassle to transport (and, sure enough, I broke it at one point). Another was that this required somebody to operate the laptop. We never experimented giving usb-creator to the user and telling them to figure it out themselves but I'm pretty sure the results would be disastrous.
Parinux (the local LUG) has a burning tower (essentielly, a tower with a DVD-ROM drive and 5 DVD burners stacked on top of each other). I believe it's only being used once or twice. Again, it's troublesome to carry around and people much prefer the officel media to pressed DVDs.
Emmanuel
IMHO, I think we can greatly simplify this "burning tower". What we need is an arm computer - strong enough to run an external usb burner, and a externally powered USB hub, maybe an SD card reader too. If we attach an tiny touch and LCD either, then I think an RSPI2 would be enough as heart of this system. From software side I think we have already base and roots, just need some pimp up to get our "burnmachine" as simply as a coffeemachine. The app is called Multiwrite, and its in our repos already.
It would be an nice project for us, and would be an nice portable kit for events, moreover - the multiple usb can be also an "hey-pal-charge-your-device-til-we-can-chat-about-fedora" thing on the booth. I have seen similar by Intel booth. Opinions?
Zoltan
2015-10-29 12:13 GMT+01:00 Emmanuel Seyman emmanuel@seyman.fr:
- Gerold [29/10/2015 09:55] :
well done! why you don't let the requester do it by his own to get "his version" and flavour? You/we can maybe provide blank DvD's (and maybe just sleeves) and a PC with a burner inside, and till he waits for the creating the Boot-DvD or Boot-USB key you can get in touch with him, ...
In pratice, this was a laptop (mine, usually) with a DVD burner and a USB cable in which people could plug their USB keys. The machine was hidden by a cardboard sign explaining what they would be getting.
One problem with this setup is that it's quite bulky. The sign was a hassle to transport (and, sure enough, I broke it at one point). Another was that this required somebody to operate the laptop. We never experimented giving usb-creator to the user and telling them to figure it out themselves but I'm pretty sure the results would be disastrous.
Parinux (the local LUG) has a burning tower (essentielly, a tower with a DVD-ROM drive and 5 DVD burners stacked on top of each other). I believe it's only being used once or twice. Again, it's troublesome to carry around and people much prefer the officel media to pressed DVDs.
Emmanuel
ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
IMHO, I think we can greatly simplify this "burning tower". What we need is an arm computer - strong enough to run an external usb burner, and a externally powered USB hub, maybe an SD card reader too. If we attach an tiny touch and LCD either, then I think an RSPI2 would be enough as heart of this system. From software side I think we have already base and roots, just need some pimp up to get our "burnmachine" as simply as a coffeemachine. The app is called Multiwrite, and its in our repos already.
It would be an nice project for us, and would be an nice portable kit for events, moreover - the multiple usb can be also an "hey-pal-charge-your-device-til-we-can-chat-about-fedora" thing on the booth. I have seen similar by Intel booth. Opinions?
Zoltan
+2 gerold :-)
2015-10-29 12:13 GMT+01:00 Emmanuel Seyman emmanuel@seyman.fr:
- Gerold [29/10/2015 09:55] :
well done! why you don't let the requester do it by his own to get "his version" and flavour? You/we can maybe provide blank DvD's (and maybe just sleeves) and a PC with a burner inside, and till he waits for the creating the Boot-DvD or Boot-USB key you can get in touch with him, ...
In pratice, this was a laptop (mine, usually) with a DVD burner and a USB cable in which people could plug their USB keys. The machine was hidden by a cardboard sign explaining what they would be getting.
One problem with this setup is that it's quite bulky. The sign was a hassle to transport (and, sure enough, I broke it at one point). Another was that this required somebody to operate the laptop. We never experimented giving usb-creator to the user and telling them to figure it out themselves but I'm pretty sure the results would be disastrous.
Parinux (the local LUG) has a burning tower (essentielly, a tower with a DVD-ROM drive and 5 DVD burners stacked on top of each other). I believe it's only being used once or twice. Again, it's troublesome to carry around and people much prefer the officel media to pressed DVDs.
Emmanuel
ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
-- PGP: 06853DF7
All of you write is true, but..... The media its not only a simple dvd which contain Fedora installation stuffs. Its a marketing business. When users visit Us at Fedora booth, they always asking, and want grab a new Fedora DVD. The Fedora installation DVDs must be there at the Fedora booth. Can U imagine the booth without DVDs ?
Geri
2015-10-29 14:40 keltezéssel, Gerold írta:
IMHO, I think we can greatly simplify this "burning tower". What we need is an arm computer - strong enough to run an external usb burner, and a externally powered USB hub, maybe an SD card reader too. If we attach an tiny touch and LCD either, then I think an RSPI2 would be enough as heart of this system. From software side I think we have already base and roots, just need some pimp up to get our "burnmachine" as simply as a coffeemachine. The app is called Multiwrite, and its in our repos already.
It would be an nice project for us, and would be an nice portable kit for events, moreover - the multiple usb can be also an "hey-pal-charge-your-device-til-we-can-chat-about-fedora" thing on the booth. I have seen similar by Intel booth. Opinions?
Zoltan
+2 gerold :-)
2015-10-29 12:13 GMT+01:00 Emmanuel Seyman emmanuel@seyman.fr:
- Gerold [29/10/2015 09:55] :
well done! why you don't let the requester do it by his own to get "his version" and flavour? You/we can maybe provide blank DvD's (and maybe just sleeves) and a PC with a burner inside, and till he waits for the creating the Boot-DvD or Boot-USB key you can get in touch with him, ...
In pratice, this was a laptop (mine, usually) with a DVD burner and a USB cable in which people could plug their USB keys. The machine was hidden by a cardboard sign explaining what they would be getting.
One problem with this setup is that it's quite bulky. The sign was a hassle to transport (and, sure enough, I broke it at one point). Another was that this required somebody to operate the laptop. We never experimented giving usb-creator to the user and telling them to figure it out themselves but I'm pretty sure the results would be disastrous.
Parinux (the local LUG) has a burning tower (essentielly, a tower with a DVD-ROM drive and 5 DVD burners stacked on top of each other). I believe it's only being used once or twice. Again, it's troublesome to carry around and people much prefer the officel media to pressed DVDs.
Emmanuel
ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
-- PGP: 06853DF7
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
2015-10-29 14:44 GMT+01:00 Rákosi Gergely rakosi.gergely@gmail.com:
All of you write is true, but..... The media its not only a simple dvd which contain Fedora installation stuffs. Its a marketing business. When users visit Us at Fedora booth, they always asking, and want grab a new Fedora DVD. The Fedora installation DVDs must be there at the Fedora booth. Can U imagine the booth without DVDs ?
Geri
Honestly speaking? Yes I can, DVDs are slowly dying and in a few years we won't produce them anymore. IMO users will come to our booth also without DVDs, they are not mandatory to have a good Fedora booth, and as ambassadors we should not focus too much on this kind of swag, because we can do many other things from a marketing or promotional POV.
2015-10-29 14:44 GMT+01:00 Rákosi Gergely rakosi.gergely@gmail.com:
All of you write is true, but..... The media its not only a simple dvd which contain Fedora installation stuffs. Its a marketing business. When users visit Us at Fedora booth, they always asking, and want grab a new Fedora DVD. The Fedora installation DVDs must be there at the Fedora booth. Can U imagine the booth without DVDs ?
Geri
Honestly speaking? Yes I can, DVDs are slowly dying and in a few years we won't produce them anymore. IMO users will come to our booth also without DVDs, they are not mandatory to have a good Fedora booth, and as ambassadors we should not focus too much on this kind of swag, because we can do many other things from a marketing or promotional POV.
-- Robert Mayr (robyduck) --
^^ full ack, to both of you! And because of both opinion, the idea (from myself) is to create a self-running-burning maschine in the corner of your booth / table :-) which suits all. Marketing, Attention, lack of fast internet connection, cool stuff :-)
Gerold
Lets vote it at the next irc meeting. Its OK to Me.
2015-10-29 15:00 keltezéssel, Gerold írta:
2015-10-29 14:44 GMT+01:00 Rákosi Gergely rakosi.gergely@gmail.com:
All of you write is true, but..... The media its not only a simple dvd which contain Fedora installation stuffs. Its a marketing business. When users visit Us at Fedora booth, they always asking, and want grab a new Fedora DVD. The Fedora installation DVDs must be there at the Fedora booth. Can U imagine the booth without DVDs ?
Geri
Honestly speaking? Yes I can, DVDs are slowly dying and in a few years we won't produce them anymore. IMO users will come to our booth also without DVDs, they are not mandatory to have a good Fedora booth, and as ambassadors we should not focus too much on this kind of swag, because we can do many other things from a marketing or promotional POV.
-- Robert Mayr (robyduck) --
^^ full ack, to both of you! And because of both opinion, the idea (from myself) is to create a self-running-burning maschine in the corner of your booth / table :-) which suits all. Marketing, Attention, lack of fast internet connection, cool stuff :-)
Gerold
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
On Thu, 2015-10-29 at 14:53 +0100, Robert Mayr wrote:
2015-10-29 14:44 GMT+01:00 Rákosi Gergely rakosi.gergely@gmail.com:
All of you write is true, but..... The media its not only a simple dvd which contain Fedora installation stuffs. Its a marketing business. When users visit Us at Fedora booth, they always asking, and want grab a new Fedora DVD. The Fedora installation DVDs must be there at the Fedora booth. Can U imagine the booth without DVDs ?
Geri
Honestly speaking? Yes I can, DVDs are slowly dying and in a few years we won't produce them anymore. IMO users will come to our booth also without DVDs, they are not mandatory to have a good Fedora booth, and as ambassadors we should not focus too much on this kind of swag, because we can do many other things from a marketing or promotional POV.
-- Robert Mayr (robyduck)
For one flisol we made a collage in a board like elementary school kids do. It was 10th Fedora aniversary. We have some info about all releases, and all FPL's ... really old fashion ... nothing like having a big screen with a slide show. It was a magnet, maybe because we made something different. The bonus was that everybody collaborator involved got better at fedora history.
In the third world internet is becoming better and better, so having media is not that important as it used to be. We have a lot of request for copying the iso files.
Still, I would prefer to have media in the booth, but I really see how this is becoming less important. What really matters is what we do with the few seconds of attention that a person give us when we talk with them at the booth.
Neville
Honestly speaking? Yes I can, DVDs are slowly dying and in a few years we won't produce them anymore. IMO users will come to our booth also without DVDs, they are not mandatory to have a good Fedora booth, and as ambassadors we should not focus too much on this kind of swag, because we can do many other things from a marketing or promotional POV.
-- Robert Mayr (robyduck)
For one flisol we made a collage in a board like elementary school kids do. It was 10th Fedora aniversary. We have some info about all releases, and all FPL's ... really old fashion ... nothing like having a big screen with a slide show. It was a magnet, maybe because we made something different. The bonus was that everybody collaborator involved got better at fedora history.
This is the flisol mural:
https://plus.google.com/+FedoraOrgNi/photos/photo/5871739906171478098?pid=58...
Il giorno gio, 29/10/2015 alle 14.35 +0100, Zoltan Hoppar ha scritto:
IMHO, I think we can greatly simplify this "burning tower". What we need is an arm computer - strong enough to run an external usb burner, and a externally powered USB hub, maybe an SD card reader too. If we attach an tiny touch and LCD either, then I think an RSPI2 would be enough as heart of this system. From software side I think we have already base and roots, just need some pimp up to get our "burnmachine" as simply as a coffeemachine. The app is called Multiwrite, and its in our repos already.
It would be an nice project for us, and would be an nice portable kit for events, moreover - the multiple usb can be also an "hey-pal-charge-your-device-til-we-can-chat-about-fedora" thing on the booth. I have seen similar by Intel booth. Opinions?
I agree. I think that a friendly/attractive burning/coffee-machine combined with a physical handbook could be a very interesting combination for the future :)
I just proposed to a friend of mine (Fedora and Raspberry Pi user) if we can create together a burning machine with an LCD screen and a couple of buttons and LEDs. It would be nice to have everything inside a nice enclosure: it would be portable, quite cheap and distinctive. I hope we could realize it before our next Release Party and share everything with you.
We should decide what to do with F23: we could make 1000 DVDs while we develop/test those alternative and consider to move away from DVDs for F24/F25. It could be a bit too risky to make such a big change without an appropriate transition period.
I didn't know about multiwrite: thank you.
I have forgot to mention that we have already artwork to stop the visitors - and it's accessible by the Fedora Marketing collateral. Just look for the bottom of the page, for the "liveusb creator station" that we used it before.
I have one more idea, maybe not-so-bad idea.... I dunno. How about to order blank (without data), but writeable factory printed disks? So until our burner finishing, we can help out either with our drives if the ambassador has dvd writer implemented. Also we can use them as on-demand, so there gonna be no waste, only if the visitor, or user needs it. Of course there are some worries inside me - if the disk gets corrupted, or the writer mess up the write sequence....hell, doubles the time and... ehh.
Also thinking about the multiple usb ports - if we don't have enough sd card space to hold all images, would be possible to merge into a single drive to use it as source, RAID right? So, if the ambassador had no time to collect all the images/SD card is broken, a pendrive ( or a set) also can be handy, lifesaver - as backup.
+1 optional use case: portable personal owncloud, local update server, sharepoint whatnot for team-meeting or party with this hw setup. Running cloud cooperational apps, node js based ones... well can be profitable, if our "burnerbox" usage doesn't play, or offline/online teamwork is necessary.
+1 alternative use case: if we are able to make this, I think would be a nice option - to get media shared around the world - to ask the council to send overseas just a single 16 or 32 gigs sd cards to old timer active ambassadors who can use these images to run install parties, or updates locally. With that we can spare the local bandwith if our machine is been made, or sponsored for regional ambassadors... after this we need only limited amount disks, for the freemedia helpout, IMHO.
Zoltan
2015-10-29 14:57 GMT+01:00 Francesco Frassinelli fraph24@gmail.com:
Il giorno gio, 29/10/2015 alle 14.35 +0100, Zoltan Hoppar ha scritto:
IMHO, I think we can greatly simplify this "burning tower". What we need is an arm computer - strong enough to run an external usb burner, and a externally powered USB hub, maybe an SD card reader too. If we attach an tiny touch and LCD either, then I think an RSPI2 would be enough as heart of this system. From software side I think we have already base and roots, just need some pimp up to get our "burnmachine" as simply as a coffeemachine. The app is called Multiwrite, and its in our repos already.
It would be an nice project for us, and would be an nice portable kit for events, moreover - the multiple usb can be also an "hey-pal-charge-your-device-til-we-can-chat-about-fedora" thing on the booth. I have seen similar by Intel booth. Opinions?
I agree. I think that a friendly/attractive burning/coffee-machine combined with a physical handbook could be a very interesting combination for the future :)
I just proposed to a friend of mine (Fedora and Raspberry Pi user) if we can create together a burning machine with an LCD screen and a couple of buttons and LEDs. It would be nice to have everything inside a nice enclosure: it would be portable, quite cheap and distinctive. I hope we could realize it before our next Release Party and share everything with you.
We should decide what to do with F23: we could make 1000 DVDs while we develop/test those alternative and consider to move away from DVDs for F24/F25. It could be a bit too risky to make such a big change without an appropriate transition period.
I didn't know about multiwrite: thank you.
ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
On Thu, 2015-10-29 at 14:35 +0100, Zoltan Hoppar wrote:
IMHO, I think we can greatly simplify this "burning tower". What we need is an arm computer - strong enough to run an external usb burner, and a externally powered USB hub, maybe an SD card reader too. If we attach an tiny touch and LCD either, then I think an RSPI2 would be enough as heart of this system. From software side I think we have already base and roots, just need some pimp up to get our "burnmachine" as simply as a coffeemachine. The app is called Multiwrite, and its in our repos already.
It would be an nice project for us, and would be an nice portable kit for events, moreover - the multiple usb can be also an "hey-pal-charge-your-device-til-we-can-chat-about-fedora" thing on the booth. I have seen similar by Intel booth. Opinions?
Zoltan
I have a friend who is a system engineer working on installing a recent fedora version on R-Pi2 and desisted. Seneca College made the proof of concept and moved on, so Pidora is outdated.
This is the opportunity for a nice article on how to install fedora 23 on R-Pi2? Not everybody is well versed in the tiny details to make this works.
... and then another article on how to run multiwrite in R-Pi-2 (hopping that gnome-multi-writer does not need the full gnome desktop and works nice in a XFCE setup)
Raspberry-pi aside, having multiwriter at a event may be really nice.
I had great attention using turbojet as a multi DVD writer tool, but it is not in fedora repos.
Neville
Jiri Eischmann píše v St 14. 10. 2015 v 17:44 -0400:
Hi, Fedora 23 is just around corner and we haven't discussed media production yet. For F22, produced 2,000 Workstation DVDs and 1,000 Alternative Desktops DVDs.
A couple of facts:
- the minimal amount to order is 1,000
- 2,000 DVDs of Workstation was just enough for this cycle, we ran
out of them just a couple of weeks before a new release, we still have a couple of hundred of Alternative Desktops ones though.
- unit price if you produce 1,000 is 40% higher than if you produce
2,000.
We can go with the same amounts again, at the regional meeting, someone suggested that we should go with a lower amount. In this case, it would make sense to only produce the minimal amount of Workstation ones.
Status of DVD alternatives:
- USB sticks are still >10x more expensive than DVDs unfortunately,
they're faulty and too slow to load. Not an option to fully replace DVDs nowadays.
- we've released a 'Getting Started with Fedora' handbook, it doesn't
include any media with Fedora, but tells users how to create one and provides much more info about Fedora. And it's very close to DVDs price-wise: https://eischmann.wordpress.com/2015/10/14/getting-starte d-with-fedora-handbook/
Opinions, ideas?
Jiri
We haven't reached any conclusion and it's really time to order them.
That's why I propose we produce 1000 Workstation ones. I will also order 1000 for usage of Red Hat Czech which will help us get a better unit price.
That should be it. I would not order any other kind. DVDs are media of the past, we produce them for legacy reasons and will discontinue them eventually, so I think the minimal approach is right and we should not ship full variety of Fedora offerings on DVDs because it's not our primary way to distribute Fedora any more. Let's stick with the default offering and with minimal amounts and let's discontinue it in 1-2 releases.
Jiri
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA256
+1 from me for your proposal
Greetings, Christian
On 11/02/2015 03:52 PM, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Jiri Eischmann píše v St 14. 10. 2015 v 17:44 -0400:
Hi, Fedora 23 is just around corner and we haven't discussed media production yet. For F22, produced 2,000 Workstation DVDs and 1,000 Alternative Desktops DVDs.
A couple of facts: * the minimal amount to order is 1,000 * 2,000 DVDs of Workstation was just enough for this cycle, we ran out of them just a couple of weeks before a new release, we still have a couple of hundred of Alternative Desktops ones though. * unit price if you produce 1,000 is 40% higher than if you produce 2,000.
We can go with the same amounts again, at the regional meeting, someone suggested that we should go with a lower amount. In this case, it would make sense to only produce the minimal amount of Workstation ones.
Status of DVD alternatives: * USB sticks are still >10x more expensive than DVDs unfortunately, they're faulty and too slow to load. Not an option to fully replace DVDs nowadays. * we've released a 'Getting Started with Fedora' handbook, it doesn't include any media with Fedora, but tells users how to create one and provides much more info about Fedora. And it's very close to DVDs price-wise: https://eischmann.wordpress.com/2015/10/14/getting-starte d-with-fedora-handbook/
Opinions, ideas?
Jiri --
We haven't reached any conclusion and it's really time to order them.
That's why I propose we produce 1000 Workstation ones. I will also order 1000 for usage of Red Hat Czech which will help us get a better unit price.
That should be it. I would not order any other kind. DVDs are media of the past, we produce them for legacy reasons and will discontinue them eventually, so I think the minimal approach is right and we should not ship full variety of Fedora offerings on DVDs because it's not our primary way to distribute Fedora any more. Let's stick with the default offering and with minimal amounts and let's discontinue it in 1-2 releases.
Jiri
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
Hello everyone,
On November 2, 2015 at 4:52 PM Jiri Eischmann <eischmann@redhat.com>wrote:
We haven't reached any conclusion and it's really time to order them. That's why I propose we produce 1000 Workstation ones. I will also order 1000 for usage of Red Hat Czech which will help us get a better unit price. That should be it. I would not order any other kind. DVDs are media of the past, we produce them for legacy reasons and will discontinue them eventually, so I think the minimal approach is right and we should not ship full variety of Fedora offerings on DVDs because it's not our primary way to distribute Fedora any more. Let's stick with the default offering and with minimal amounts and let's discontinue it in 1-2 releases.
Couldn't agree more. Produce minimum amounts of DVDs for the time being and phase them out entirely after a few more releases.
-Giannis
-- Giannis Konstantinidis
giannis@konstantinidis.cc http://konstantinidis.cc giannisk on irc.freenode.net
2015-11-02 14:52 GMT+00:00 Jiri Eischmann eischmann@redhat.com:
We haven't reached any conclusion and it's really time to order them.
That's why I propose we produce 1000 Workstation ones. I will also order 1000 for usage of Red Hat Czech which will help us get a better unit price.
That should be it. I would not order any other kind. DVDs are media of the past, we produce them for legacy reasons and will discontinue them eventually, so I think the minimal approach is right and we should not ship full variety of Fedora offerings on DVDs because it's not our primary way to distribute Fedora any more. Let's stick with the default offering and with minimal amounts and let's discontinue it in 1-2 releases.
+1
-- Frafra
sure +1
gpg fingerprint: E97A 1E68 E163 06B5 E21C E158 FAC0 0962 FD8B CE51
On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 5:10 PM, Francesco Frassinelli fraph24@gmail.com wrote:
2015-11-02 14:52 GMT+00:00 Jiri Eischmann eischmann@redhat.com:
We haven't reached any conclusion and it's really time to order them.
That's why I propose we produce 1000 Workstation ones. I will also order 1000 for usage of Red Hat Czech which will help us get a better unit price.
That should be it. I would not order any other kind. DVDs are media of the past, we produce them for legacy reasons and will discontinue them eventually, so I think the minimal approach is right and we should not ship full variety of Fedora offerings on DVDs because it's not our primary way to distribute Fedora any more. Let's stick with the default offering and with minimal amounts and let's discontinue it in 1-2 releases.
+1
-- Frafra
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