crossposted also to the famsco list as a heads up
i want to put the current Ambassador mentoring and membership process up to dicussion - if i see the solid base of mentors we have today, we should consider to give the mentors sponsorship rights.
We shaped the current process in the past to remove the workload from a FAmA represented by a single person and to separate the "quality"-evaluation from the administrational/initial barriers and formalism. I think this is perfect in place now.
With the current process the *last step* of a mentor is, that he gives his *thumbs up in the tickets system* . After that, the FAmA sponsors the candidate in FAS and closes the ticket. I think we should give the Mentors who are doing the hard mentoring work, the recognition to sponsor their own candidates.
cu Joerg
Hi Jörg,
thanks for bringing this up.
Let me give some background for those of you who did not attend the FAmSCo meeting yesterday and didn't (yet) read the meeting log: Herlo asked for somebody else take over his duties as the head of FAMA, the Fedora Ambassadors membership Administration [1]. After a little discussion, we appointed Tuanta.
Am Dienstag, den 09.07.2013, 11:02 +0200 schrieb Joerg Simon:
crossposted also to the famsco list as a heads up
i want to put the current Ambassador mentoring and membership process up to dicussion - if i see the solid base of mentors we have today, we should consider to give the mentors sponsorship rights.
When we discussed this yesterday, I thought about this, but I did not suggest it. FAMA is a well established process with a long history and I did not want to make any changes without consulting you first. Glad to see you feel the same.
We shaped the current process in the past to remove the workload from a FAmA represented by a single person and to separate the "quality"-evaluation from the administrational/initial barriers and formalism. I think this is perfect in place now.
With the current process the *last step* of a mentor is, that he gives his *thumbs up in the tickets system* . After that, the FAmA sponsors the candidate in FAS and closes the ticket. I think we should give the Mentors who are doing the hard mentoring work, the recognition to sponsor their own candidates.
I totally agree, there are a lot of good reasons. Let me summarize and add a few new ones: * We should share the workload. * We should not have a single point of failure. * The mentors do all the work of the sponsoring process, in return they should be rewarded with more recognition and responsibility. * Sponsoring somebody and closing his ticket is just a few clicks. No big deal for a mentor, but it can become a lot of work for a single person. * As the mentors are filing the tickets, they should also close them. * The process would be consistent with all the other groups where sponsors == mentors.
Kind regards, Christoph
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christoph Wickert" christoph.wickert@gmail.com To: "Fedora Ambassadors Steering Committee" famsco@lists.fedoraproject.org Cc: ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, July 9, 2013 5:49:03 PM Subject: Re: [FAmSCo] Make Mentors Sponsors?
We shaped the current process in the past to remove the workload from a FAmA represented by a single person and to separate the "quality"-evaluation from the administrational/initial barriers and formalism. I think this is perfect in place now.
With the current process the *last step* of a mentor is, that he gives his *thumbs up in the tickets system* . After that, the FAmA sponsors the candidate in FAS and closes the ticket. I think we should give the Mentors who are doing the hard mentoring work, the recognition to sponsor their own candidates.
I totally agree, there are a lot of good reasons. Let me summarize and add a few new ones: * We should share the workload. * We should not have a single point of failure. * The mentors do all the work of the sponsoring process, in return they should be rewarded with more recognition and responsibility. * Sponsoring somebody and closing his ticket is just a few clicks. No big deal for a mentor, but it can become a lot of work for a single person. * As the mentors are filing the tickets, they should also close them. * The process would be consistent with all the other groups where sponsors == mentors.
I see a lot of reasons to change/improve the current process this way. Although I am not so familiar as both of you on this process, I see these reasons are more than enough to make the change.
I have no ideas at this moment but there may someone against these point, and it would be nice to see his/her points.
Despite of this, as a new appointed FAmA administrator, I see that position is still necessary in the whole process (lets discuss that in another topic) so I would be happy to continue my job.
Kind regards, Tuan
On 09.07.2013 13:12, Truong Anh. Tuan wrote:
Despite of this, as a new appointed FAmA administrator, I see that position is still necessary in the whole process (lets discuss that in another topic) so I would be happy to continue my job.
of course a FAmA is still needed
administration of the Ambassadors mailing list regular FAS clean up maintain statistics maintain the verification page control the "must have" steps before mentoring starts (mailing list, personal wiki page etc.) being a central spot for all mentors if questions arise
cu Joerg
On Tue, 2013-07-09 at 12:49 +0200, Christoph Wickert wrote:
I totally agree, there are a lot of good reasons. Let me summarize and add a few new ones: * We should share the workload. * We should not have a single point of failure. * The mentors do all the work of the sponsoring process, in return they should be rewarded with more recognition and responsibility. * Sponsoring somebody and closing his ticket is just a few clicks. No big deal for a mentor, but it can become a lot of work for a single person. * As the mentors are filing the tickets, they should also close them. * The process would be consistent with all the other groups where sponsors == mentors.
+1 on this. Sponsors = mentors makes sense. It's how the package maintainers function, and it works pretty well IMO.
Since we're talking about the mentors programme: Is it possible to get prospective ambassadors to interact more with the community? At the moment, they're sort of reliant on the mentors as their sole point of contacts in the community. They aren't on the ambassadors list yet, so they don't interact with the current ambassadors. If they do interact with other teams on other mailing lists, it isn't clear if they're candidates for the ambassadors programme, since they don't generally mention this for whatever reason.
I'd like to think that I'm quite active with APAC ambassadors, but I'm not aware of prospective ambassadors. I can't reach out to them since I don't know them. If I knew who they were, I'd like to get in touch with them and invite them to our weekly meetings at least, so they get to know other ambassadors from the region. (If they come to the meetings for starters, they'll learn how events are handled, how trac tickets are handled, what the current status of our region is, how IRC meetings are held.) Quite a few things they can learn by keeping in contact with the community. As a comparison, as package maintainers, we do go ahead and review stuff unofficially for folks waiting sponsorship. Sure, the package sponsors make the final decision, but the entire package maintainer body is free to help these candidates via unofficial reviews and other channels. We give them pointers, wiki links, tips and tricks. Such a channel would be pretty beneficial I think.
I do have a suggestion that I'll put forward here: use the fedora-join channels for prospective ambassadors. The SIG is set up for anyone who wants to join Fedora, to help them with getting started. I think the candidates for the ambassador teams should maybe required to introduce themselves in the fedora-join ML (with maybe a "[ambassador candidate]" subject line?). Since we'd like ambassadors to also join other teams as a way to learn about Fedora, they can ask their questions and get help from existing community members at fedora-join. Since there isn't an IRC channel where prospective ambassadors can communicate with each other yet, I suggest the fedora-join IRC channel be used for this purpose too.
The gist is that I'd like prospective candidates to communicate more with the entire community, not just their mentors. Let the mentors be official sponsors, let the entire community work with candidates, get to know them, learn with/from them and most importantly, teach them.
I'd think this would help mentors judge them better too, since they'll be able to review how well these candidates can get along with the community, the other teams and just everyone in general.
Comments?
2013/7/9 Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert@gmail.com: [snip]
Am Dienstag, den 09.07.2013, 11:02 +0200 schrieb Joerg Simon:
crossposted also to the famsco list as a heads up
i want to put the current Ambassador mentoring and membership process up to dicussion - if i see the solid base of mentors we have today, we should consider to give the mentors sponsorship rights.
[snip]
With the current process the *last step* of a mentor is, that he gives his *thumbs up in the tickets system* . After that, the FAmA sponsors the candidate in FAS and closes the ticket. I think we should give the Mentors who are doing the hard mentoring work, the recognition to sponsor their own candidates.
I totally agree, there are a lot of good reasons. Let me summarize and add a few new ones: * We should share the workload. * We should not have a single point of failure. * The mentors do all the work of the sponsoring process, in return they should be rewarded with more recognition and responsibility. * Sponsoring somebody and closing his ticket is just a few clicks. No big deal for a mentor, but it can become a lot of work for a single person. * As the mentors are filing the tickets, they should also close them. * The process would be consistent with all the other groups where sponsors == mentors.
Kind regards, Christoph
I agree with all the points Christoph said and indeed it's a question new candidates sometimes ask: why, when candidates finish mentoring with a "thumbs up", they aren't sponsored immediately?
From the 1st of June we also changed a lot of the mentoring process,
giving more responsibility to the single mentor and letting him administrate the ticket process from the creation to the "thumbs up" state. Sponsoring his candidate definitely, after having spent often a lot of time with the new ambassador, would be grateful for the mentor on one side, and would be the logical end of the mentoring process for the candidate on the other side.
Therefore I would totally agree with Jörg's proposal. Greetings.
On 07/09/2013 05:37 AM, Robert Mayr wrote:
2013/7/9 Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert@gmail.com: [snip]
Am Dienstag, den 09.07.2013, 11:02 +0200 schrieb Joerg Simon:
crossposted also to the famsco list as a heads up
i want to put the current Ambassador mentoring and membership process up to dicussion - if i see the solid base of mentors we have today, we should consider to give the mentors sponsorship rights.
[snip]
With the current process the *last step* of a mentor is, that he gives his *thumbs up in the tickets system* . After that, the FAmA sponsors the candidate in FAS and closes the ticket. I think we should give the Mentors who are doing the hard mentoring work, the recognition to sponsor their own candidates.
I totally agree, there are a lot of good reasons. Let me summarize and add a few new ones: * We should share the workload. * We should not have a single point of failure. * The mentors do all the work of the sponsoring process, in return they should be rewarded with more recognition and responsibility. * Sponsoring somebody and closing his ticket is just a few clicks. No big deal for a mentor, but it can become a lot of work for a single person. * As the mentors are filing the tickets, they should also close them. * The process would be consistent with all the other groups where sponsors == mentors.
Kind regards, Christoph
I agree with all the points Christoph said and indeed it's a question new candidates sometimes ask: why, when candidates finish mentoring with a "thumbs up", they aren't sponsored immediately? From the 1st of June we also changed a lot of the mentoring process, giving more responsibility to the single mentor and letting him administrate the ticket process from the creation to the "thumbs up" state. Sponsoring his candidate definitely, after having spent often a lot of time with the new ambassador, would be grateful for the mentor on one side, and would be the logical end of the mentoring process for the candidate on the other side.
Therefore I would totally agree with Jörg's proposal. Greetings.
As a mentor, just thought I'd give my $.02 and say that being able to sponsor in Trac would be a helpful bonus. That way we can tell the mentee that they're in when they're ready instead of explaining the last bit of red tape, which less face it, has been largely ceremonial.
Scott
I like that idea too Scott....
On 21 August 2013 07:49, Scott Williams vwfoxguru@gmail.com wrote:
On 07/09/2013 05:37 AM, Robert Mayr wrote:
2013/7/9 Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert@gmail.com: [snip]
Am Dienstag, den 09.07.2013, 11:02 +0200 schrieb Joerg Simon:
crossposted also to the famsco list as a heads up
i want to put the current Ambassador mentoring and membership process up to dicussion - if i see the solid base of mentors we have today, we should consider to give the mentors sponsorship rights.
[snip]
With the current process the *last step* of a mentor is, that he gives
his *thumbs up in the tickets system* . After that, the FAmA sponsors the candidate in FAS and closes the ticket. I think we should give the Mentors who are doing the hard mentoring work, the recognition to sponsor their own candidates.
I totally agree, there are a lot of good reasons. Let me summarize and add a few new ones: * We should share the workload. * We should not have a single point of failure. * The mentors do all the work of the sponsoring process, in return they should be rewarded with more recognition and responsibility. * Sponsoring somebody and closing his ticket is just a few clicks. No big deal for a mentor, but it can become a lot of work for a single person. * As the mentors are filing the tickets, they should also close them. * The process would be consistent with all the other groups where sponsors == mentors.
Kind regards, Christoph
I agree with all the points Christoph said and indeed it's a question new candidates sometimes ask: why, when candidates finish mentoring with a "thumbs up", they aren't sponsored immediately? From the 1st of June we also changed a lot of the mentoring process, giving more responsibility to the single mentor and letting him administrate the ticket process from the creation to the "thumbs up" state. Sponsoring his candidate definitely, after having spent often a lot of time with the new ambassador, would be grateful for the mentor on one side, and would be the logical end of the mentoring process for the candidate on the other side.
Therefore I would totally agree with Jörg's proposal. Greetings.
As a mentor, just thought I'd give my $.02 and say that being able to
sponsor in Trac would be a helpful bonus. That way we can tell the mentee that they're in when they're ready instead of explaining the last bit of red tape, which less face it, has been largely ceremonial.
Scott
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Makes easier for every mentor this step. So +1.
Zoltan
2013/8/21 Paul Mellors prjmellors@gmail.com:
I like that idea too Scott....
On 21 August 2013 07:49, Scott Williams vwfoxguru@gmail.com wrote:
On 07/09/2013 05:37 AM, Robert Mayr wrote:
2013/7/9 Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert@gmail.com: [snip]
Am Dienstag, den 09.07.2013, 11:02 +0200 schrieb Joerg Simon:
crossposted also to the famsco list as a heads up
i want to put the current Ambassador mentoring and membership process up to dicussion - if i see the solid base of mentors we have today, we should consider to give the mentors sponsorship rights.
[snip]
With the current process the *last step* of a mentor is, that he gives his *thumbs up in the tickets system* . After that, the FAmA sponsors the candidate in FAS and closes the ticket. I think we should give the Mentors who are doing the hard mentoring work, the recognition to sponsor their own candidates.
I totally agree, there are a lot of good reasons. Let me summarize and add a few new ones: * We should share the workload. * We should not have a single point of failure. * The mentors do all the work of the sponsoring process, in return they should be rewarded with more recognition and responsibility. * Sponsoring somebody and closing his ticket is just a few clicks. No big deal for a mentor, but it can become a lot of work for a single person. * As the mentors are filing the tickets, they should also close them. * The process would be consistent with all the other groups where sponsors == mentors.
Kind regards, Christoph
I agree with all the points Christoph said and indeed it's a question new candidates sometimes ask: why, when candidates finish mentoring with a "thumbs up", they aren't sponsored immediately? From the 1st of June we also changed a lot of the mentoring process, giving more responsibility to the single mentor and letting him administrate the ticket process from the creation to the "thumbs up" state. Sponsoring his candidate definitely, after having spent often a lot of time with the new ambassador, would be grateful for the mentor on one side, and would be the logical end of the mentoring process for the candidate on the other side.
Therefore I would totally agree with Jörg's proposal. Greetings.
As a mentor, just thought I'd give my $.02 and say that being able to sponsor in Trac would be a helpful bonus. That way we can tell the mentee that they're in when they're ready instead of explaining the last bit of red tape, which less face it, has been largely ceremonial.
Scott
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+1
Enviado do meu Android. Em 21/08/2013 05:58, "Zoltan Hoppar" hopparz@gmail.com escreveu:
Makes easier for every mentor this step. So +1.
Zoltan
2013/8/21 Paul Mellors prjmellors@gmail.com:
I like that idea too Scott....
On 21 August 2013 07:49, Scott Williams vwfoxguru@gmail.com wrote:
On 07/09/2013 05:37 AM, Robert Mayr wrote:
2013/7/9 Christoph Wickert christoph.wickert@gmail.com: [snip]
Am Dienstag, den 09.07.2013, 11:02 +0200 schrieb Joerg Simon:
crossposted also to the famsco list as a heads up
i want to put the current Ambassador mentoring and membership process up to dicussion - if i see the solid base of mentors we have today, we should consider to give the mentors sponsorship rights.
[snip]
With the current process the *last step* of a mentor is, that he
gives
his *thumbs up in the tickets system* . After that, the FAmA sponsors the candidate in FAS and closes the ticket. I think we should give
the
Mentors who are doing the hard mentoring work, the recognition to sponsor their own candidates.
I totally agree, there are a lot of good reasons. Let me summarize and add a few new ones: * We should share the workload. * We should not have a single point of failure. * The mentors do all the work of the sponsoring process, in return they should be rewarded with more recognition and responsibility. * Sponsoring somebody and closing his ticket is just a few clicks. No big deal for a mentor, but it can become a lot of work
for a
single person. * As the mentors are filing the tickets, they should also close them. * The process would be consistent with all the other groupswhere
sponsors == mentors.Kind regards, Christoph
I agree with all the points Christoph said and indeed it's a question new candidates sometimes ask: why, when candidates finish mentoring with a "thumbs up", they aren't sponsored immediately? From the 1st of June we also changed a lot of the mentoring process, giving more responsibility to the single mentor and letting him administrate the ticket process from the creation to the "thumbs up" state. Sponsoring his candidate definitely, after having spent often a lot of time with the new ambassador, would be grateful for the mentor on one side, and would be the logical end of the mentoring process for the candidate on the other side.
Therefore I would totally agree with Jörg's proposal. Greetings.
As a mentor, just thought I'd give my $.02 and say that being able to sponsor in Trac would be a helpful bonus. That way we can tell the
mentee
that they're in when they're ready instead of explaining the last bit
of red
tape, which less face it, has been largely ceremonial.
Scott
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Ankur Sinha -
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Truong Anh Tuan -
Zoltan Hoppar