Hi all!
Our next big event in EMEA is FOSDEM 2011 :) As you have seen on this list we are already organizing our presence [1]. (Add yourself if you are coming!)
Please note that we need to step up and register some talks on the Distribution MiniConf (a Conference on Distributions within FOSDEM). We are 20 fedorians already coming to FOSDEM and I am sure we have a lot to share with other communities (community, technical etc)
In order to participate in the discussion please join the dist2011 mailing list to state your talk proposal or reply here and I can relay that :) Also note that we need to keep our wiki updated for that [3] and that you can have a talk in the Main Track (Our FPL will!) or a lighting talk!
~π
ps. for questions please reply here or ping biertie (our event owner) or me on IRC
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FOSDEM_2011 [2] http://lists.fosdem.org/mailman/listinfo/dist2011 [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FOSDEM_2011_Talk_Propositions
I'm sorry to interupt this, but our FPL is not approved in the main track :( #sad face
but! agreed, more people should subscribe on the distro miniconf (or other mailing lists) and propose a talk. I do think that the deadline will be extended though, since not a lot of talks have been submitted yet. but don't put your hope on that ;)
IF you want to give a talk, check out this page for all the details: http://fosdem.org/2011/call_for_participation
hope to see you all there in February! and thank you Pierros for the mail ;-)
cheers, Bert
2010/12/17 Pierros Papadeas ppapadeas@gmail.com:
Hi all!
Our next big event in EMEA is FOSDEM 2011 :) As you have seen on this list we are already organizing our presence [1]. (Add yourself if you are coming!)
Please note that we need to step up and register some talks on the Distribution MiniConf (a Conference on Distributions within FOSDEM). We are 20 fedorians already coming to FOSDEM and I am sure we have a lot to share with other communities (community, technical etc)
In order to participate in the discussion please join the dist2011 mailing list to state your talk proposal or reply here and I can relay that :) Also note that we need to keep our wiki updated for that [3] and that you can have a talk in the Main Track (Our FPL will!) or a lighting talk!
~π
ps. for questions please reply here or ping biertie (our event owner) or me on IRC
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FOSDEM_2011 [2] http://lists.fosdem.org/mailman/listinfo/dist2011 [3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FOSDEM_2011_Talk_Propositions -- Pierros Papadeas PGP key: 0x6130DBF8 http://pierros.papadeas.gr pierros@papadeas.gr liknus @ GRnet , Freenode -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
On Fri, 17 Dec 2010, Pierros Papadeas wrote:
[3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FOSDEM_2011_Talk_Propositions
The simple truth is that as of right now, we have very few Fedora talks being proposed at FOSDEM.
We've got over 20 people signed up to attend FOSDEM as part of Fedora's group, but only two who have indicated on the wiki page that they submitted talks -- Jared and Lennart.
There are a ton of categories where Fedora-related talks could be given:
Perl Open Source Telephony Virtualization Free Java Crossdesktop
Is there anyone attending FOSDEM who would like to submit a talk that fits into one of these categories, and that can be (in part) about Fedora?
I'm willing to help anyone who wants to give a talk put one together, if they need advice on how to structure a talk, what points to make, etc.
--Max
2010/12/17 Max Spevack mspevack@fedoraproject.org:
On Fri, 17 Dec 2010, Pierros Papadeas wrote:
[3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/FOSDEM_2011_Talk_Propositions
The simple truth is that as of right now, we have very few Fedora talks being proposed at FOSDEM.
We've got over 20 people signed up to attend FOSDEM as part of Fedora's group, but only two who have indicated on the wiki page that they submitted talks -- Jared and Lennart.
There are a ton of categories where Fedora-related talks could be given:
Perl Open Source Telephony Virtualization Free Java Crossdesktop
Is there anyone attending FOSDEM who would like to submit a talk that fits into one of these categories, and that can be (in part) about Fedora?
I'm willing to help anyone who wants to give a talk put one together, if they need advice on how to structure a talk, what points to make, etc.
Hello, I'm trying to setup a Fedora 14 server for OS-level virtualization using LXC but i've not found yet many docs about it and it's not so easy to configure to make it work great. I've already use older Fedora to setup KVM as platform virtualization to avoid Windows using physically all the machine. So i would be interested to talk about my Virtualization experience on Fedora, but i've never done talks before so that's why i've not submited any talk because i feel it would be too difficult for me alone to prepare such a talk. But i was amazed about Max's talk during RMLL 2009, he has replied my many questions about virtualization and netbook too. His presentation of Fedora Project motivated me to become a Fedora Ambassador as I am now :) So if Max agree to help me put together a talk about Fedora virtualization features, i would be glad to submit it and do it if selected. Now, i'm waiting for Max answer. Thank you for your attention.
On Fri, 17 Dec 2010, Bertrand Juglas wrote:
So if Max agree to help me put together a talk about Fedora virtualization features, i would be glad to submit it and do it if selected.
Sure!
Do you think you would prefer to submit it as a Lightning Talk or as part of the Virt devroom?
http://fosdem.org/2011/call_for_lightningtalks
http://nciv2011.v2.cs.unibo.it/doku.php
The content of the talk depends on which choice you make, I think.
For a 15 minute Lightning Talk, I'd probably want to do a demonstration of something Really Cool related to virt & Fedora 15. Maybe it's a simple thing that most people don't know how to do -- which is "here's how to get a virtual machine running on your Fedora laptop in less than 15 minutes"
For the virt devroom, I think that we need to talk to some of the other virt and cloud folks within Fedora and get their help to put together something larger and more technical.
--Max
2010/12/18 Max Spevack mspevack@fedoraproject.org:
On Fri, 17 Dec 2010, Bertrand Juglas wrote:
So if Max agree to help me put together a talk about Fedora virtualization features, i would be glad to submit it and do it if selected.
Sure!
Do you think you would prefer to submit it as a Lightning Talk or as part of the Virt devroom?
http://fosdem.org/2011/call_for_lightningtalks
http://nciv2011.v2.cs.unibo.it/doku.php
The content of the talk depends on which choice you make, I think.
For a 15 minute Lightning Talk, I'd probably want to do a demonstration of something Really Cool related to virt & Fedora 15. Maybe it's a simple thing that most people don't know how to do -- which is "here's how to get a virtual machine running on your Fedora laptop in less than 15 minutes"
I feel more comfortable for a Lightning Talk because it would be my first public talk in english. And i prefer demo than slides so let's continue on the Lightning Talk idea. I will update my Fedora 14 host server to Fedora 15 so i can already test virt features of Fedora 15. And i plan to demo on my laptop running Fedora 14 a Fedora 15 KVM guest running LXC containers to show it's possible because of the different levels of virtualization. And also to show how KVM can be used to run a newer version of Fedora inside an older one. It should be long enough for 15 minutes, do you agree ? So i've enough elements to submit my talk request on http://fosdem.org/2011/call_for_lightningtalks before the end of sunday. Thank you for your help.
2010/12/18 Max Spevack mspevack@fedoraproject.org:
Do you think you would prefer to submit it as a Lightning Talk or as part of the Virt devroom?
http://fosdem.org/2011/call_for_lightningtalks
For a 15 minute Lightning Talk, I'd probably want to do a demonstration of something Really Cool related to virt & Fedora 15. Maybe it's a simple thing that most people don't know how to do -- which is "here's how to get a virtual machine running on your Fedora laptop in less than 15 minutes"
Here is what I've submitted as a Lightning Talk about Fedora's virtualization and isolation solutions :
talk title: how to get a virtual machine running on your Fedora laptop
talk description: I want to do a demonstration of something Really Cool related to virt & Fedora 15. It's a simple thing that most people don't know how to do -- which is "here's how to get a virtual machine running on your Fedora laptop in less than 15 minutes" After virtual machine which is very easy to setup and use, showing LXC as a lighter isolation solution should interest people wanting to replace their chroots by more secured and isolated solutions.
I've well seen the web page confirming my submission was well received. So now i just have to continue preparing the demos while waiting for the FOSDEM's decision on 2010-12-27 for Acceptance notification of lightning talks. And if my submission is not accepted, i will proposed it to "First Saturday" french monthly Fedora event. Thank you for your support because alone i wouldn't have submitted this talk.
I feel I am in a difficult situation right now. One Microsoft representative in Nicaragua has started an approach to the free software community at large in Nicaragua. He is offering sponsorship for freesoftware activities like events.
As a summary, he is willingly to invest small amounts on events without any logo or promotion if the community talks about interoperability. Bigger support will requiere banners and logos.
I have seen those in big events for freesoftware. Like in pycon, Microsoft has a banner and the logo was included on the schedule book, but there was no booth neither talks. I have never see such thing in a Fedora event.
I think that if the community at large (which includes a few distros, and other free software groups like drupal) agrees with that, then it will be going with the majority. For instance, if the community celebrates Software Fredom Day, it is a big event in which fedora in Nicaragua contributes. If the event has sponsorship, that does not goes directly to one group endorsing all sponsors. I am tricking my self?
I think it is not needed for fedora events. Talking about any other stuff that is not fedora or freedom is out of place. We tend not to even mention others distros, because we have a topic. Do I am being to narrow minded? I think that resources is besides the point as Fedora backs up Fedora activities. Or do I should try to use their money and save Fedora money for other things?
I have wrote an email to the Fedora Nicaraguan community in the local mailing list to get feed back. But I would also like to have proper guidance from Fedora Project in this issue. I do not recall, in all the time that I have been part of this mailing list, seen something like this before. So that's why I ask.
Best regards
On Thu, 2011-03-17 at 23:40 -0600, Neville A. Cross wrote:
As a summary, he is willingly to invest small amounts on events without any logo or promotion if the community talks about interoperability.
Interoperability is one of the most fundamental values of Free Software believers, it's great that Microsoft representatives are showing some support.
Bigger support will requiere banners and logos.
I have seen those in big events for freesoftware. Like in pycon, Microsoft has a banner and the logo was included on the schedule book, but there was no booth neither talks. I have never see such thing in a Fedora event.
I think that if the community at large (which includes a few distros, and other free software groups like drupal) agrees with that, then it will be going with the majority. For instance, if the community celebrates Software Fredom Day, it is a big event in which fedora in Nicaragua contributes. If the event has sponsorship, that does not goes directly to one group endorsing all sponsors. I am tricking my self?
I think it is not needed for fedora events. Talking about any other stuff that is not fedora or freedom is out of place.
Free Software (and thus Freedom) exists on Windows as well. Presenting cross-OS applications like Firefox, Gimp, Pidgin or LibreOffice will often be the first step for lots of people to understand software freedom and potentially make a full move to a Free OS later.
That can't be a bad thing.
We tend not to even mention others distros, because we have a topic.
I mention other distros all the time at Fedora events. We even invite people from other distros (mainly Ubuntu and Mandriva/Mageia) to the events we organize in France.
As long as everyone understands that we don't compete and that we have better things to do than trolling at each other, there isn't any problem with that in my opinion.
Do I am being to narrow minded? I think that resources is besides the point as Fedora backs up Fedora activities. Or do I should try to use their money and save Fedora money for other things?
Why not? The money you won't take from the Fedora budget can be used to fund other events, hackfests, FADs, marketing materials, etc.
As long as they don't require you to do anything inappropriate or contrary to your values, I don't see any reason why you should refuse *any* help for organizing a better event.
That goes for any corporate funding as far as I'm concerned.
For example, I would refuse a funding from Red Hat/Fedora if they prevented me from voluntarily helping someone who has trouble with his server and instead sending him to the Red Hat paid support. That has never happened though, and I don't think it's very likely. :)
On 03/18/2011 07:40 AM, Neville A. Cross wrote:
I feel I am in a difficult situation right now. One Microsoft representative in Nicaragua has started an approach to the free software community at large in Nicaragua. He is offering sponsorship for freesoftware activities like events.
As a summary, he is willingly to invest small amounts on events without any logo or promotion if the community talks about interoperability. Bigger support will requiere banners and logos.
This is a tactic employed by Microsoft for quite a while, they are buying credibility. If some years ago it was unimaginable, now their presence as many FOSS events is seen as "normal", they managed to position themselves from "the competitor" as "a partner".
I have no idea if this is also a goal of their tactic, but no matter what your decision is, expect your community to be divided, the "idealist" would feel the ideals of Free Software were betrayed and will complain about the mixed message, the "pragmatics" will be happy about money and the possibilities they enable.
I think that if the community at large (which includes a few distros, and other free software groups like drupal) agrees with that, then it will be going with the majority. For instance, if the community celebrates Software Fredom Day, it is a big event in which fedora in Nicaragua contributes. If the event has sponsorship, that does not goes directly to one group endorsing all sponsors. I am tricking my self?
You have direct control over the events you organize, if you are invited at an event where Microsoft is a sponsor, you have to choose the lesser evil: endorse Microsoft with your presence or skip it and make Fedora's voice unheard. My choice is to keep the balance and be there (but I won't involve Fedora's money if Microsoft already paid something), while I see some merits in the opposite approach too.
I think it is not needed for fedora events. Talking about any other stuff that is not fedora or freedom is out of place. We tend not to even mention others distros, because we have a topic. Do I am being to narrow minded? I think that resources is besides the point as Fedora backs up Fedora activities. Or do I should try to use their money and save Fedora money for other things?
In the Romanian community we agreed we don't need and don't want money from any entity not sincerely involved in FOSS. But we have a healthy collaboration with local communities from other distros: invite them to our release parties, go to theirs, organize events together, work on common projects... the FOSS way.
Hello,
I think for event organizers this is a tricky problem to deal with.
But simply following decisions can be taken by analyzing the situation.
We organize an event to promote Free Software, so no matter we promote fedora, openSUSE or any other. As long as we promote the word free and related products the objective seems fulfilled.
Then Microsoft came to the scene. They can offer two sides. 1) spend some money as a CSR 2) spend and promote their brand.
The 1st one is ok as long as there is no brand promotion or any promotion for Microsoft but in 2nd we cannot agree with their expectation because promoting Free Software and Promoting Closed-Limited Software are two ends.
Therefore if we can get their support with no brand promotion I think there is no problem of taking the chance but if they want to shows their brand in Free Software event i think its not good.
Rejecting funds because microsoft is providing is not a good ground. AS long as they help us to promote Free Software with no expectations would be reasonable.
I feel I am in a difficult situation right now. One Microsoft representative in Nicaragua has started an approach to the free software community at large in Nicaragua. He is offering sponsorship for freesoftware activities like events.
As a summary, he is willingly to invest small amounts on events without any logo or promotion if the community talks about interoperability. Bigger support will requiere banners and logos.
This is a tactic employed by Microsoft for quite a while, they are buying credibility. If some years ago it was unimaginable, now their presence as many FOSS events is seen as "normal", they managed to position themselves from "the competitor" as "a partner".
I have no idea if this is also a goal of their tactic, but no matter what your decision is, expect your community to be divided, the "idealist" would feel the ideals of Free Software were betrayed and will complain about the mixed message, the "pragmatics" will be happy about money and the possibilities they enable.
I think that if the community at large (which includes a few distros, and other free software groups like drupal) agrees with that, then it will be going with the majority. For instance, if the community celebrates Software Fredom Day, it is a big event in which fedora in Nicaragua contributes. If the event has sponsorship, that does not goes directly to one group endorsing all sponsors. I am tricking my self?
You have direct control over the events you organize, if you are invited at an event where Microsoft is a sponsor, you have to choose the lesser evil: endorse Microsoft with your presence or skip it and make Fedora's voice unheard. My choice is to keep the balance and be there (but I won't involve Fedora's money if Microsoft already paid something), while I see some merits in the opposite approach too.
I think it is not needed for fedora events. Talking about any other stuff that is not fedora or freedom is out of place. We tend not to even mention others distros, because we have a topic. Do I am being to narrow minded? I think that resources is besides the point as Fedora backs up Fedora activities. Or do I should try to use their money and save Fedora money for other things?
In the Romanian community we agreed we don't need and don't want money from any entity not sincerely involved in FOSS. But we have a healthy collaboration with local communities from other distros: invite them to our release parties, go to theirs, organize events together, work on common projects... the FOSS way.
-- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/ photography: http://photoblog.nicubunu.ro/ -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
Hello,
I totally agree with Buddhika Kurera. If they can fund without expectation then that would be ok. If they want us somehow to promote them or even mentioning the company name would be a total taboo.
Regards, IFo
On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 09:11 +0200, Nicu Buculei wrote: <skip>
I have no idea if this is also a goal of their tactic, but no matter what your decision is, expect your community to be divided, the "idealist" would feel the ideals of Free Software were betrayed and will complain about the mixed message, the "pragmatics" will be happy about money and the possibilities they enable.
<skip>
I am also expecting that the decision will fragment our community. We have been working together among a few distros, we gave each other space in the spot light when there is a launch party, we all help but we let the distro having the release had the show for themselves. We will have their support in the same way for our release. We work together for big events like FLISOL and SFD. I will be very sad that some one came along a poison this integration.
To be honest, if they do take some of their billions and financially support FOSS projects, mainly to make them work on more than just linux, then good, about time they used their money for some good.
But I suspect there are ulterior motives in this approach:
1. They are cutting their own costs by not having to use their own testing people, as I know they have labs where they check interoperability between windows and Linux services.
2. They figured Apple is looking quite evil now in the eyes of the FOSS community, in terms of behaviour and openness, so they are trying to make themselves look more favourable.
3. They are trying to grab off some Linux users, by making the same standard applications work on windows, which basically means they are scared. (which will work in the GNU Linux Operating system becoming more "accessible" to people, as they will say, well, I already use most of the same applications, I may as well save money, be more secure, and efficient, and use a Linux based operating system).
4. The main reason why they are there, is to show presence, as many business service providers are now actively seeking cost cutting measures, which makes them more profitable, and Linux is an attractive way to do this. (great for the FOSS community too).
So all in all, as far as I am concerned, they can do whatever they like, as long as they do not make people sign stupid legal agreements to prevent them from doing what they want with their FOSS product/developments. If Amarok got 100k in support, for instance, I could not care less, if it makes Amarok even better. You may replace Amarok with any other application of your choice in that example.
I would not be too concerned, after all, there is a reason why people like FOSS, especially hackers, as they can just code and do not have to worry about libraries and licenses and god knows what else. You just want to have fun with software/code. And as a user, typing in serials, and clicking agreement buttons, yuck, no thanks.
Regards, Tristan
1) It's Microsoft, champion of all things Microsoft to the detriment of everything else. 2) Financial support is financial support. If it helps one more person make the jump from closed to open source software then it is an achieved goal.
I tend to look beyond the immediacy of any issue and ask myself if x does y what would the desired result be.
If Microsoft funds fedora projects they can achieve a major win almost immediately: "Why bother installing fedora when most of the software that works on fedora also works out of the box on Windows? Even their own ambassadors are changing their events to discuss the interoperability between their software and Windows. Why bother with installing a new OS when you can have good old tried and trusted Windows running not only all the freeware software out there but also all the windows apps that linux simply can't handle?"
Who wants a fedora hat with a fedora logo on one side and a "sponsored by Microsoft (windows logo)" on the other side of it?
Unless Microsoft is willing to simply hand over the funds to support fedora with no strings attached apart from declaring where the money has been spent I would say "fedora is doing perfectly fine without your support, thank you very much."
On 18 March 2011 10:17, Tristan Santore < tristan.santore@internexusconnect.net> wrote:
To be honest, if they do take some of their billions and financially support FOSS projects, mainly to make them work on more than just linux, then good, about time they used their money for some good.
But I suspect there are ulterior motives in this approach:
- They are cutting their own costs by not having to use their own
testing people, as I know they have labs where they check interoperability between windows and Linux services.
- They figured Apple is looking quite evil now in the eyes of the FOSS
community, in terms of behaviour and openness, so they are trying to make themselves look more favourable.
- They are trying to grab off some Linux users, by making the same
standard applications work on windows, which basically means they are scared. (which will work in the GNU Linux Operating system becoming more "accessible" to people, as they will say, well, I already use most of the same applications, I may as well save money, be more secure, and efficient, and use a Linux based operating system).
- The main reason why they are there, is to show presence, as many
business service providers are now actively seeking cost cutting measures, which makes them more profitable, and Linux is an attractive way to do this. (great for the FOSS community too).
So all in all, as far as I am concerned, they can do whatever they like, as long as they do not make people sign stupid legal agreements to prevent them from doing what they want with their FOSS product/developments. If Amarok got 100k in support, for instance, I could not care less, if it makes Amarok even better. You may replace Amarok with any other application of your choice in that example.
I would not be too concerned, after all, there is a reason why people like FOSS, especially hackers, as they can just code and do not have to worry about libraries and licenses and god knows what else. You just want to have fun with software/code. And as a user, typing in serials, and clicking agreement buttons, yuck, no thanks.
Regards, Tristan
-- Tristan Santore BSc MBCS TS4523-RIPE Network and Infrastructure Operations InterNexusConnect Mobile +44-78-55069812 Tristan.Santore@internexusconnect.net
Former Thawte Notary (Please note: Thawte has closed its WoT programme down, and I am therefore no longer able to accredit trust)
For Fedora related issues, please email me at: TSantore@fedoraproject.org -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
Dear Neville, let me tell you that the last year in San Salvador,for the same event, in the Salvadorean Comunity we accept to have some microsoft present in the (flisol) after discuss in the Salvadorean Comunity but we never accept money.
The agrement was that:
- 0 banners - No logos - Nothing about microsoft
they accept,and said no no problem we just want to speak about interoperability but then....
Making deals with Microsoft, at least in my experience is like believing in the Wolf of the Little Red Riding Hood story as they (MS) first started with this success have been in that event, then wanted to sponsor an event of drupal, which as direct organizer I refused to accept money, in my opinion and maybe very hard trial, Microsoft has nothing to do in an event of FOSS.
As they thought it, they then wrote an email saying that in honor of discussing interoperability invited us to eat pizza (a good challenge geek not to accept an invitation to eat pizza) and that they financed To which the Salvadoran community refused completely ...
That followed?, well, they literally tried to bribe a close friend to agree to pay him the journey to a Drupal event, he was invited to give talks to them directly, again using the same technique ("interoperability"). ..
In my view it is difficult, especially when there are no funds, as in the case of our community (El Salvador) yet we do not accept and took out the event ...
Of course that's my experience, and as if we as a community of fedora I think it is necessary to accept anything from them, says Gregory Fenton *"Who wants a fedora hat with a fedora logo on one side and a "sponsored by Microsoft (windows logo)" on the other side of it?"*
*"Unless Microsoft is willing to simply hand over the funds to support fedora with no strings attached apart from declaring where the money has been spent I would say "fedora is doing perfectly fine without your support, thank you very much."*
As if that were not enough, as he commented to my friend who tried to bribe them you know you know who you are and what position you play the role of the community, if it were a party of ajedres know your game, your techniques and the noble or not you can be ... even asked for you "If you" Neville Cross, because they know the support we receive from you (By the way THANKS for the total support for the Fedora community in El Salvador ...")
You see, this trick make interoperability between operating systems and between proprietary software is only a white lie to soon achieve even separation or fragmentation of communities and create controversy .... in the case of El Salvador we had a good time thinking and discussing what to do ....
in my case I was more brief, NO, period ....
I hope you serve something shared my experience anything better came to Nicaragua to help but do not accept or five of Microsoft ...
best regards.
-- magjogui
http://yosiuso.tatica.org/ José Edgardo López Vásquez
fedora Ambassador [El Salvador] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Magjogui https://www.fedoraproject.org magjogui@fedoraproject.org
Consultor en Software libre & GNU/ Linux identica,irc,gtalk,msn,skype: magjogui@gmail.com M. +(503) 75341503 (tigo) H. +(503) 25171878
--
2011/3/18 Gregory Fenton fedora@fedoradvds.com
- It's Microsoft, champion of all things Microsoft to the detriment of
everything else. 2) Financial support is financial support. If it helps one more person make the jump from closed to open source software then it is an achieved goal.
I tend to look beyond the immediacy of any issue and ask myself if x does y what would the desired result be.
If Microsoft funds fedora projects they can achieve a major win almost immediately: "Why bother installing fedora when most of the software that works on fedora also works out of the box on Windows? Even their own ambassadors are changing their events to discuss the interoperability between their software and Windows. Why bother with installing a new OS when you can have good old tried and trusted Windows running not only all the freeware software out there but also all the windows apps that linux simply can't handle?"
Who wants a fedora hat with a fedora logo on one side and a "sponsored by Microsoft (windows logo)" on the other side of it?
Unless Microsoft is willing to simply hand over the funds to support fedora with no strings attached apart from declaring where the money has been spent I would say "fedora is doing perfectly fine without your support, thank you very much."
On 18 March 2011 10:17, Tristan Santore < tristan.santore@internexusconnect.net> wrote:
To be honest, if they do take some of their billions and financially support FOSS projects, mainly to make them work on more than just linux, then good, about time they used their money for some good.
But I suspect there are ulterior motives in this approach:
- They are cutting their own costs by not having to use their own
testing people, as I know they have labs where they check interoperability between windows and Linux services.
- They figured Apple is looking quite evil now in the eyes of the FOSS
community, in terms of behaviour and openness, so they are trying to make themselves look more favourable.
- They are trying to grab off some Linux users, by making the same
standard applications work on windows, which basically means they are scared. (which will work in the GNU Linux Operating system becoming more "accessible" to people, as they will say, well, I already use most of the same applications, I may as well save money, be more secure, and efficient, and use a Linux based operating system).
- The main reason why they are there, is to show presence, as many
business service providers are now actively seeking cost cutting measures, which makes them more profitable, and Linux is an attractive way to do this. (great for the FOSS community too).
So all in all, as far as I am concerned, they can do whatever they like, as long as they do not make people sign stupid legal agreements to prevent them from doing what they want with their FOSS product/developments. If Amarok got 100k in support, for instance, I could not care less, if it makes Amarok even better. You may replace Amarok with any other application of your choice in that example.
I would not be too concerned, after all, there is a reason why people like FOSS, especially hackers, as they can just code and do not have to worry about libraries and licenses and god knows what else. You just want to have fun with software/code. And as a user, typing in serials, and clicking agreement buttons, yuck, no thanks.
Regards, Tristan
-- Tristan Santore BSc MBCS TS4523-RIPE Network and Infrastructure Operations InterNexusConnect Mobile +44-78-55069812 Tristan.Santore@internexusconnect.net
Former Thawte Notary (Please note: Thawte has closed its WoT programme down, and I am therefore no longer able to accredit trust)
For Fedora related issues, please email me at: TSantore@fedoraproject.org -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
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Thanks for that, it sounds like past history bears out that my train of thought was correct.
by the way, I had to google, "ajedres" means chess.
I have a question about your friend.. were the talks about interoperability scripted by Microsoft (at least in part)? --- Las gracias por eso, suena como última historia confirma que mi tren del pensamiento estaba correcto.
a propósito, tuve que google, " ajedres" significa chess.
Tengo una pregunta sobre su amigo. ¿eran habla de interoperabilidad con guión por Microsoft (por lo menos en parte)?
Blame babelfish for the above translation:)
Greg
2011/3/18 José Edgardo López Vásquez magjogui@gmail.com
Dear Neville, let me tell you that the last year in San Salvador,for the same event, in the Salvadorean Comunity we accept to have some microsoft present in the (flisol) after discuss in the Salvadorean Comunity but we never accept money.
The agrement was that:
- 0 banners
- No logos
- Nothing about microsoft
they accept,and said no no problem we just want to speak about interoperability but then....
Making deals with Microsoft, at least in my experience is like believing in the Wolf of the Little Red Riding Hood story as they (MS) first started with this success have been in that event, then wanted to sponsor an event of drupal, which as direct organizer I refused to accept money, in my opinion and maybe very hard trial, Microsoft has nothing to do in an event of FOSS.
As they thought it, they then wrote an email saying that in honor of discussing interoperability invited us to eat pizza (a good challenge geek not to accept an invitation to eat pizza) and that they financed To which the Salvadoran community refused completely ...
That followed?, well, they literally tried to bribe a close friend to agree to pay him the journey to a Drupal event, he was invited to give talks to them directly, again using the same technique ("interoperability "). ..
In my view it is difficult, especially when there are no funds, as in the case of our community (El Salvador) yet we do not accept and took out the event ...
Of course that's my experience, and as if we as a community of fedora I think it is necessary to accept anything from them, says Gregory Fenton *"Who wants a fedora hat with a fedora logo on one side and a "sponsored by Microsoft (windows logo)" on the other side of it?"*
*"Unless Microsoft is willing to simply hand over the funds to support fedora with no strings attached apart from declaring where the money has been spent I would say "fedora is doing perfectly fine without your support, thank you very much."*
As if that were not enough, as he commented to my friend who tried to bribe them you know you know who you are and what position you play the role of the community, if it were a party of ajedres know your game, your techniques and the noble or not you can be ... even asked for you "If you" Neville Cross, because they know the support we receive from you (By the way THANKS for the total support for the Fedora community in El Salvador ...")
You see, this trick make interoperability between operating systems and between proprietary software is only a white lie to soon achieve even separation or fragmentation of communities and create controversy .... in the case of El Salvador we had a good time thinking and discussing what to do ....
in my case I was more brief, NO, period ....
I hope you serve something shared my experience anything better came to Nicaragua to help but do not accept or five of Microsoft ...
best regards.
-- magjogui
http://yosiuso.tatica.org/ José Edgardo López Vásquez
fedora Ambassador [El Salvador] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Magjogui https://www.fedoraproject.org magjogui@fedoraproject.org
Consultor en Software libre & GNU/ Linux identica,irc,gtalk,msn,skype: magjogui@gmail.com M. +(503) 75341503 (tigo) H. +(503) 25171878
--
2011/3/18 Gregory Fenton fedora@fedoradvds.com
- It's Microsoft, champion of all things Microsoft to the detriment of
everything else. 2) Financial support is financial support. If it helps one more person make the jump from closed to open source software then it is an achieved goal.
I tend to look beyond the immediacy of any issue and ask myself if x does y what would the desired result be.
If Microsoft funds fedora projects they can achieve a major win almost immediately: "Why bother installing fedora when most of the software that works on fedora also works out of the box on Windows? Even their own ambassadors are changing their events to discuss the interoperability between their software and Windows. Why bother with installing a new OS when you can have good old tried and trusted Windows running not only all the freeware software out there but also all the windows apps that linux simply can't handle?"
Who wants a fedora hat with a fedora logo on one side and a "sponsored by Microsoft (windows logo)" on the other side of it?
Unless Microsoft is willing to simply hand over the funds to support fedora with no strings attached apart from declaring where the money has been spent I would say "fedora is doing perfectly fine without your support, thank you very much."
On 18 March 2011 10:17, Tristan Santore < tristan.santore@internexusconnect.net> wrote:
To be honest, if they do take some of their billions and financially support FOSS projects, mainly to make them work on more than just linux, then good, about time they used their money for some good.
But I suspect there are ulterior motives in this approach:
- They are cutting their own costs by not having to use their own
testing people, as I know they have labs where they check interoperability between windows and Linux services.
- They figured Apple is looking quite evil now in the eyes of the FOSS
community, in terms of behaviour and openness, so they are trying to make themselves look more favourable.
- They are trying to grab off some Linux users, by making the same
standard applications work on windows, which basically means they are scared. (which will work in the GNU Linux Operating system becoming more "accessible" to people, as they will say, well, I already use most of the same applications, I may as well save money, be more secure, and efficient, and use a Linux based operating system).
- The main reason why they are there, is to show presence, as many
business service providers are now actively seeking cost cutting measures, which makes them more profitable, and Linux is an attractive way to do this. (great for the FOSS community too).
So all in all, as far as I am concerned, they can do whatever they like, as long as they do not make people sign stupid legal agreements to prevent them from doing what they want with their FOSS product/developments. If Amarok got 100k in support, for instance, I could not care less, if it makes Amarok even better. You may replace Amarok with any other application of your choice in that example.
I would not be too concerned, after all, there is a reason why people like FOSS, especially hackers, as they can just code and do not have to worry about libraries and licenses and god knows what else. You just want to have fun with software/code. And as a user, typing in serials, and clicking agreement buttons, yuck, no thanks.
Regards, Tristan
-- Tristan Santore BSc MBCS TS4523-RIPE Network and Infrastructure Operations InterNexusConnect Mobile +44-78-55069812 Tristan.Santore@internexusconnect.net
Former Thawte Notary (Please note: Thawte has closed its WoT programme down, and I am therefore no longer able to accredit trust)
For Fedora related issues, please email me at: TSantore@fedoraproject.org -- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
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On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 06:34 -0600, José Edgardo López Vásquez wrote: <skip>
That followed?, well, they literally tried to bribe a close friend to agree to pay him the journey to a Drupal event, he was invited to give talks to them directly, again using the same technique ("interoperability"). ..
<skip>
At this moment there has no signs of bribe, but as more experienced I can connect the dots. During the talk they offered to recommend customers seeking for FOSS solution to some of the people having already established a business in free software. My guess is that they will "help" opinion leaders to get jobs in mixed environments, where they can shine with their linux skills, but in the other hand they will be extra busy to keep up helping the community. This may also end up fragmenting the community.
Thanks for all your opinions, I have read all the emails. I still would rather not have dealing with Microsoft, but as this is a community I have to wait what the local people have to say.
Best regards
Hi,
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:02 AM, Neville A. Cross neville@taygon.comwrote:
On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 06:34 -0600, José Edgardo López Vásquez wrote:
<skip> > That followed?, well, they literally tried to bribe a close friend to > agree to pay him the journey to a Drupal event, he was invited to give > talks to them directly, again using the same technique > ("interoperability"). .. <skip>
At this moment there has no signs of bribe, but as more experienced I can connect the dots. During the talk they offered to recommend customers seeking for FOSS solution to some of the people having already established a business in free software. My guess is that they will "help" opinion leaders to get jobs in mixed environments, where they can shine with their linux skills, but in the other hand they will be extra busy to keep up helping the community. This may also end up fragmenting the community.
Thanks for all your opinions, I have read all the emails. I still would rather not have dealing with Microsoft, but as this is a community I have to wait what the local people have to say.
Best regards
-- Neville https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v Linux User # 473217
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
Personally I only appreciate if Microsoft is spending on developing area of interoperability rather than "appearance" in FOSS events. Before they have shown significant contribution on that, they are more welcomed to present in non-FOSS events. My 2c.
K410
What an excellent, logical and well worded reply.
2011/3/18 Caius 'kaio' Chance kaio@fedoraproject.org
Hi,
On Sat, Mar 19, 2011 at 12:02 AM, Neville A. Cross neville@taygon.comwrote:
On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 06:34 -0600, José Edgardo López Vásquez wrote:
<skip> > That followed?, well, they literally tried to bribe a close friend to > agree to pay him the journey to a Drupal event, he was invited to give > talks to them directly, again using the same technique > ("interoperability"). .. <skip>
At this moment there has no signs of bribe, but as more experienced I can connect the dots. During the talk they offered to recommend customers seeking for FOSS solution to some of the people having already established a business in free software. My guess is that they will "help" opinion leaders to get jobs in mixed environments, where they can shine with their linux skills, but in the other hand they will be extra busy to keep up helping the community. This may also end up fragmenting the community.
Thanks for all your opinions, I have read all the emails. I still would rather not have dealing with Microsoft, but as this is a community I have to wait what the local people have to say.
Best regards
-- Neville https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Yn1v Linux User # 473217
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
Personally I only appreciate if Microsoft is spending on developing area of interoperability rather than "appearance" in FOSS events. Before they have shown significant contribution on that, they are more welcomed to present in non-FOSS events. My 2c.
K410
Regards ☺ Caius 'kaio' Chance Fedora Project Contributor - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kaio [IRC] kaio @ freenode | [Twitter] @K410 | [Blog] kaio.net
-- ambassadors mailing list ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/ambassadors
On Fri, 2011-03-18 at 10:17 +0000, Tristan Santore wrote:
To be honest, if they do take some of their billions and financially support FOSS projects, mainly to make them work on more than just linux, then good, about time they used their money for some good.
But I suspect there are ulterior motives in this approach:
What happened to « assume good faith » ? :)
Hello,
All that I read from the replies only confirms thoughts that we better NOT deal with anything Microsoft.
Best Regards, IFo
ambassadors@lists.fedoraproject.org