Fedora 中文組郵件列表 February 2011

chinese@lists.fedoraproject.org

47 participants
51 discussions

Re: [FZH] 不知道这个建议怎么样
by kfihihc＠gmail.com 26 Feb '11

26 Feb '11

cc Fedora Chinese <chinese(a)lists.fedoraproject.org> kfihihc(a)gmail.com <kfihihc(a)gmail.com> 於 2011年2月27日上午12:05 �道： > > > Jiahua Huang <jhuangjiahua(a)gmail.com> 於 2011年2月26日下午11:56 �道： > > 不觉得 gnome-shell 是在模仿 iPhone 界面么 >> >> 个人觉得更像webOS…… > 特别是通知系统，简直就是一样的…… > > 2011/2/26 kfihihc(a)gmail.com <kfihihc(a)gmail.com> >> >> gnome-shell 的顶栏简直是浪费空间，还把日期什么的放中间，直接变成全局菜单多好啊。 >>> >>> > > > -- > -- > 小波上 > http://yuzhe.me > http://fanfou.com/kfihihc > htpp://twitter.com/kfihihc <http://twitter.com/kfihihc> > http://about.me/xiaobo/bio > -- -- 小波上 http://yuzhe.me http://fanfou.com/kfihihc htpp://twitter.com/kfihihc <http://twitter.com/kfihihc> http://about.me/xiaobo/bio

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[FZH] Fwd: Window controls for GNOME 3
by Yu Chen 26 Feb '11

26 Feb '11

---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Owen Taylor <otaylor(a)redhat.com> Date: 2011/2/23 Subject: Window controls for GNOME 3 To: gnome-shell-list(a)gnome.org OK, I promised Jon McCann to write a mail here giving information on my thoughts on removing the minimize and maximize buttons since I've been resisting the request of the designers to remove these buttons. My main objection to removing them has been that I didn't think we really understood the use case for minimization, or how we would satisfy that use case. The pattern of use for minimization is that a lot of people don't use minimization at all, and other people use it extensively. It didn't make sense to me to remove something that we don't understand with idea that we'd add it back later if it turned out to be needed. To make people suffer, and have it be a major focus of the GNOME 3 transition, then go and add it back anyways. On the other hand, if we do have a reasonable sense that we have workflows that basically will work for everybody, then I'm more comfortable removing minimization. So, this mail is reporting on my attempt to come to a better understanding of minimization and how it fits in with the GNOME 3 workflow. Why do people minimize windows? =============================== I think the first thing to realize is that minimization doesn't make sense if you maximize everything. If you run everything maximized, then it just doesn't enter in ... switching between windows is switching between windows. (I personally typically maximize everything, so I don't minimize windows.) Reasons people minimize: * Because they like a tidy desktop. I think a lot of people are uncomfortable with a desktop where the window the are working with is overlapping other windows - where they are looking at a "gigantic pile of papers". These people like working with a few windows on a clean desktop. But they still have a larger set of windows open for less immediate tasks. * Because maximized windows interact badly with unmaximized windows. If I have a task that involves looking at multiple unmaximized windows, then I switch to a maximized web browser, getting back to the other state is hard - I have to select each window in turn without accidentally selecting the maximized window again. * To find a window behind other windows - if you generally select windows by clicking on them, and can't see the window or windows want, minimization can be a way of getting a big or maximized window out of the way and working with the windows underneath. * To "save windows for later" - if you open windows to represent tasks, like responding to an email or reading a PDF of a paper, you might not want them directly in your face interfering with the work you are doing first. Are workspaces a replacement for minimization? ============================================== Since minimization is basically about wanting to work with a subset of windows, workspaces are clearly related to them. As compared to minimization they have advantages and disadvantages. The advantage is that they are stable - that is, I can have one workspace with a terminal and an editor, and another workspace with a web browser and my mail program and they will always stay that way - I won't lose the grouping. The disadvantage is that it isn't flexible - if I need the editor and web browser open at once then I have to go to the Activities Overview and move the web browser, and then my web browser and mail program can't be open at once until I move it back. Experiences with removing the minimize button ============================================= I asked the two people on the Red Hat GNOME Shell team who I knew heavily used the minimize button to try removing it and report back to me about their experiences. (These obviously are not typical users using typical applications, but they provide some data about how people actually use the minimize button.) Marina: Marina generally used the minimize button when switching between a) coding on the shell with non-maximized terminal and editor windows b) doing tasks in a maximized web browser. She would minimize the web browser to get from a) to b) and then use the overview to get back to the minimized web browser. When she turned off the minimize button, she was initially very frustrated because she kept going to where the minimize button was but finding only the "useless" close button there. She then turned off the close button as well and was much happier with the result. [I don't think this is really an option however - there are going to be too many cases where apps are designed expecting a close button.] No problems were reported with: - Having the maximized web browser window still visible under the coding windows... this was reported to not be distracting. - Having to separately activate the editor and terminal windows from the overview. Workspaces were found not to be useful because they didn't allow to easily switch between working with a fullscreen webbrowser, to using a non-full-screen web browser in conjunction with an editor for patch review. Dan: Dan normally keeps xchat, terminal, and emacs in a fixed layout, and then uses unminimization and minimization to temporarily switch from the terminal/emacs task to mail or web browser tasks. He also uses minimization to save web pages opened for patch reviews for doing later. Dan reported that he was able to successfully switch to a setup where web browser and email were on separate desktops. He didn't feel it was an improvement, but he also didn't feel a strong urge to go back to the previous setup. He did report feeling isolated when on a workspace with only web or only email. Dan often opens links in separate web browser windows, so to do the patch review tasks that frustrated Marina's use of workspaces, he would open the review link from email in a separate window and then move that window to his coding window. He found after using it for a while that the most effective way to save windows for later use was to reserve a desktop for that and move windows to be saved to that desktop. Problems with current minimization ================================== * Many people (most people?) never minimize. So one of the most prominent permanent controls is something that has no particular function but makes your window vanish if hit accidentally. * There is no real mental model for what happens when hiding. The window shrinks off to the corner, but when you go back to the overview, it's still there and looks the same as if you hadn't hid it. * The minimize icon is a remnant of the GNOME 2 taskbar and has nothing to do with the GNOME 3 experience. (Really, we don't have minimization at all, we have "hiding") * Having minimize and maximize controls puts "stress" on the concept of the centered title - the titlebar looks unbalanced. * If people are using minimization within GNOME Shell as an alternative to things that could be done with workspaces, then we have to design other components for two different workflows - the minimization workflow and the workspaces workflow. * Minimized windows break the illusion of zooming to the overview. Is removing the button really removing minimization? ==================================================== You can still minimize with: - Right click on titlebar to get to the window menu - Alt-right click on window contents to the window menu - Alt-F9 - Alt-space n But, no, for all real purposes removing the button is removing minimization. Could we design an improved "hiding" model ========================================== I think there are some things we could do that would make minimization less weird. - Maybe use a different icon - Reserve a space for minimized windows in the overview - perhaps something like: +--------+ +-------+ | | | | +--------+ +-------+ +---------+ | + +---------+ +---+ +---+ +--+ | | | | | | +---- +---+ +--+ So then the other windows would smoothly animate to their overview positions and the minimized windows would just "be there" in the overview. - Animate minimized windows toward the reserved space instead of towards the corner (we could even show the minimized windows on the background of the root window in the main view and return back to the days of twm???) But at this point, we're out of time to experiment with anything for GNOME 3.0. Also this doesn't address minimization being unused by many users and having two different workflows for working with a subset of windows. The maximize button =================== The above was about minimization - but the request was also to remove the maximize button. This is a little different since there are more obvious ways to maximize a window - the drag to the top gesture or double-clicking on the title bar - we're not really talking about removing the feature of maximization but just the button. I don't think it's generally a big deal to remove the maximize button. Trying it myself, I did find one problematical area - it's pretty hard to distinguish between a mostly maximized and maximized window but they behave quite differently. I think there are some adjustments we could make to help with that - one one in particular is making sure when you unmaximize we actually shrink the window by a significant amount and don't leave it screen sized. The way forward =============== I'm going to openly admit here that I'm a bit uncertain. Until we got the new workspaces controls, removing the minimize button was impossible; it took away a workflow, and left only a very hard to use alternative. With a better model for working with workspaces, there is evidence it might work, but we're working from a very limited data set and we don't have much runway left to adjust before GNOME 3.0. Other considerations against removing window controls: no minimize leaves us further away from Mac and Windows and removing the minimize button in the fallback mode would work much less well, since the overview isn't available to quickly and conveniently switch to a hidden window. On the other hand, if we leave minimization, we have something that is clearly undesigned and unfinished. And we portray the taskbar as something that is missing rather than something that is unneeded, because we have a window hiding icon that was designed for minimizing to the taskbar. In the end, I think with GNOME 3 we need to emphasize design coherency and slickness - what is different and better, and that actually is more important than being 100% sure we perfectly meet everybody's workflow. Having half-designed minimization is going against the goal of coherency. And doesn't provide testing of alternate workflows. So I'm going to remove the minimize and maximize buttons for GNOME 3.0, and if it doesn't work out, we'll eat crow, design window hiding right, and add it back for 3.2. Feedback? ========= If people want to give their thoughts here, that's fine, but I don't think a mailing list debate is the best way to come to a decision, so the decision above should be considered basically final for the 3.0 release. The real form of feedback that we need going from GNOME 3.0 to 3.2 is careful observation of how users are using GNOME 3 - are they figuring out how to use the overview and workspaces and message tray as we expect them to use them, or are they doing cumbersome workarounds because we took away essential features. - Owen _______________________________________________ gnome-shell-list mailing list gnome-shell-list(a)gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list -- Yu

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Re: [FZH] fedora下无线网卡问题
by Hexchain Tong 26 Feb '11

26 Feb '11

珍爱生命，远离联想，ideapad 小Y用户泪奔路过… 蓝牙在 Linux 下无法正常关闭，blueman 里显示 turned off 了，面板上的灯还亮着。Ubuntu Natty 里倒是能关上了，只不过关了蓝牙再重启，无线网卡就因为 RFKill 死活打不开了。那个ITE CIR的Media Center红外线接收器至今不能工作。以上吐槽完毕… -- Hexchain Tong On Feb 26, 2011 4:46 PM, "ajax he" <ajaxhe(a)gmail.com> wrote: > thinkpad还是不错了~ > > 在 2011年2月26日下午1:49，好大一只鸟 <wpahipc(a)gmail.com>写道： > >> 呵呵，Lenovo有这么差吗？没有用过 >> >> 在 2011年2月26日下午1:47，宏羽杜 <dongfengweixiao(a)gmail.com>写道： >> >> > 珍爱生命,远离Lenovo >> > 话说Lenovo经常在笔记本上出现一些很要人费解的硬件,那些硬件在linux下都是工作不良的. >> > >> > 在 11-2-24，Tommy He<lovenemesis(a)fedoraproject.org> 写道： >> > > 如果是 RTL8192SE 的无线网卡话，可以尝试安装 rpmfusion 里的 kmod-staging ，里面包含有该无线网卡的驱动。 >> > > >> > > 2011/2/24 Bill Buchanan <lmickiester(a)gmail.com>: >> > >> 不好意思，刚才没仔细看前面的邮件内容。 >> > >> 我的意思是：本子是ThinkPad >> > >> >> > >> SL410k，内置无线网卡为realtek的RTL8192SE，用NetworkManager管理网络连接，硬件设置方面因本人生性懒惰从没动过，一年多来一切正常。目前只有Fedora，所以不太清楚双系统等其它情况。 >> > >> 无线网卡驱动下载：http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/ >> > >> >> > >> 在 2011年2月24日下午7:48，ajax he <ajaxhe(a)gmail.com>写道： >> > >> >> > >>> rtl8192se_linux是何物？求解~ >> > >>> >> > >>> >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> > >> Chinese mailing list >> > >> Chinese at lists.fedoraproject.org >> > >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chinese >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Take a Deep Breath out of Windows >> > > >> > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Lovenemesis >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Chinese mailing list >> > > Chinese at lists.fedoraproject.org >> > > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chinese >> > > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Chinese mailing list >> > Chinese at lists.fedoraproject.org >> > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chinese >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> >> Hi >> >> >> >> >> >> >> Best regards >> Big Bird >> ** >> * >> >> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> * >> ***QQ: 353056564* >> *MSN ID: wp0822(a)msn.com * >> >> *Skype ID : wpahipc* >> >> *Tel: 13423972311 * >> >> http://netniaowo.co.cc >> <http://wpah.co.cc/>< >> https://mail.google.com/mail/html/compose/static_files/www.macropower.com.sg >> > >> _______________________________________________ >> Chinese mailing list >> Chinese at lists.fedoraproject.org >> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chinese >> > _______________________________________________ > Chinese mailing list > Chinese at lists.fedoraproject.org > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chinese

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[FZH] 2011 年 2 月 26 日聚會記錄
by Caius 'kaio' Chance 25 Feb '11

25 Feb '11

<zodbot> Meeting ended Fri Feb 25 14:08:07 2011 UTC. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot . <zodbot> Minutes: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-zh/2011-02-25/fedora-zh.2011-02-25-… <zodbot> Minutes (text): http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-zh/2011-02-25/fedora-zh.2011-02-25-… <zodbot> Log: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-zh/2011-02-25/fedora-zh.2011-02-25-… -- Regards ☺ Caius 'kaio' Chance Fedora Project Contributor - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kaio [IRC] kaio @ freenode | [Twitter] @K410 | [Blog] kaio.net

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[FZH] redhat i18N职位招人
by 刘红丹 25 Feb '11

25 Feb '11

rt. 地点：北京要求熟悉I18N，熟悉C++开发。朋友就说了这两点。帮推荐。搞翻译的这么多，大家可以踊跃啊，呵呵可以和我联系，或者直接联系： pinkspider_1213#tom.com youryou1105#gmail.com 说是从我这看到的消息，对方应该明白的 -- 刘红丹

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[FZH] AUTOMAKE -l链接器参数
by Mike Manilone 24 Feb '11

24 Feb '11

明知道有可能不会获得回复，我愿意一试。我的一个用automake/autoconf管理的程序使用了pthread和gdbm，只需要在编译器和链接器中加入 -lpthread -lgdbm，可是我只是刚学automake/autoconf，不知道怎么弄，跪求帮助！ -- Mike. Blog: http://ekd123.is-programmer.com/ Fedora Project Contributor.

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[FZH] 週五聚會常任主持
by Caius 'kaio' Chance 24 Feb '11

24 Feb '11

我建議找三位組員出來主持每週五的會議。他們不一定要每次全部出席，最少一人可以把記錄機器人打開、切換主題、掌握會議時間。 lovenemesis 覺得怎樣？還有哪一位有興趣？ -- Regards ☺ Caius 'kaio' Chance Fedora Project Contributor - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/User:Kaio [IRC] kaio @ freenode | [Twitter] @K410 | [Blog] kaio.net

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Re: [FZH] redhat i18N职位招人
by Caius 'kaio' Chance 24 Feb '11

24 Feb '11

不要以為那塊招牌很管用，或者人事部也就同樣以為才給個農民價吧。價錢你覺得能談得好嗎？你大不了是技術專業，對方可是殺價專業的。忍辱負重說真的強烈反對。這個職位職務說好聽叫專門，說不好聽叫另類；一兩年之後你的基本功廢了、懂得的技能外面不需要，你覺得摸通你底的老闆還會給你漲嗎？總之，如果是跟着 2007 年離開了的那位好主管，真的減個 20% 薪水也值得；畢竟領導能力、目光、品德都是世界級的，現在進去可能比國企更慘。有衝動的人當然會忽略我的諫言直接聯系，我有讀過圍城；希望去面試過的人回來寫個報告，讓大伙多個娛樂。 Rgds, Caius 'kaio' Chance - http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/user:kaio (sent from mobile device) On 24/02/2011 1:20 PM, "刘红丹" <hongdanliu(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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[FZH] 我觉得trasifex.net还是挺不错的
by Simon Yan 23 Feb '11

23 Feb '11

上周末简单用了一下。在web上就能翻译，不用忍受po文件总是crash的烦恼。而且可以自动翻译，这样可以节省很多时间。过阵子再仔细玩玩。你们继续喷。 -- Regards, Simon Yan http://www.google.com/profiles/simonyanix

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Re: [FZH] [T] TX.net 上无法加入翻译
by Hexchain Tong 23 Feb '11

23 Feb '11

那么把 firstboot 叫做"首次启动配置工具"？貌似太罗嗦了点… 另外 system-config-printer 求挑刺…上个星期校正那个翻译弄得头昏眼花，机器翻译的痕迹太重。还有，请各位尽量用"您"来称呼用户。 -- Hexchain Tong On Feb 21, 2011 7:46 AM, "tiansworld" <tiansworld(a)gmail.com> wrote:

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Fedora 中文組郵件列表 February 2011