I thought you may be interested in what I encountered.
In my evaluation, I got more negative feelings about Gnome than the 3.6 version. With 3.6 version, for any program not within the favourites bar, it requires 4 mouse clicks to launch.
With Fedora 19, Gnome 4.x it takes 7 mouse clicks. By the way, with Cinnamon, it is 1 mouse click to open the menu, then slide to the appropriate application and click a second time. Done. There is a favourites bar as well on the side, and a second favourites bar on the bottom panel.
For a user of the system. Office, browse, email, some installed packages and games, Gnome 4.x is very heavy on using the left mouse button. I ended up with tendonitus and had to quit using Gnome, or suffer major tendon damage (repetitive action damage). It is I that had the problem and I cannot say that others will have experienced similar problems.
I do have questions about Gnome 4. What is the difference between Favourites bar contents and Frequent items. If items are used frequently, they should replace the items in the favourites bar. Frenquent items list is maintained dynamically, and often incorrectly, and the other is a static placement. Did anyone notice that if an item is in Frequent side of the collection, it is no longer in the All side of the collection.
My major grype with Gnome Desktop is the [:::] (9 sided die) launcher. Why is it not removed from the favourites bar and placed next to Activities? Putting it there would save two clicks on the mouse. With a little logic, it may even be possible to replace Activities by this [:::] launcher.
If we look at the Linux users in the world, the majority of the population writes from left to right. (Arabic, Hebrew, and a few other languages are right to left). Therefore it made better sense to have the favourites bar and the workspace selection on the right side of the desktop presentation. Why do we have to slide from extreme top left to extreme right to select an alternate workspace. Ergonomical design and how people use the computer to generate output would indicate that there is much to do to improve Gnome.
I am trying to be positive about identifying and fixing items that cause Linux users to shy away from Gnome.
Regards Leslie Mr. Leslie Satenstein 50 years in Information Technology and going strong. Yesterday was a good day, today is a better day, and tomorrow will be even better.mailto:lsatenstein@yahoo.com alternative: leslie.satenstein@gmail.com SENT FROM MY OPEN SOURCE LINUX SYSTEM.
--- On Tue, 4/2/13, design-team-request@lists.fedoraproject.org design-team-request@lists.fedoraproject.org wrote:
From: design-team-request@lists.fedoraproject.org design-team-request@lists.fedoraproject.org Subject: Welcome to the "design-team" mailing list To: lsatenstein@yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, April 2, 2013, 3:43 PM
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On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 11:11:16PM -0700, Leslie S Satenstein wrote:
With Fedora 19, Gnome 4.x it takes 7 mouse clicks. By the way, with Cinnamon, it is 1 mouse click to open the menu, then slide to the
Worth noting that it's very search focused and therefore keyboard friendly. Hit the overview key (probably has a windows logo on it; hey, at least the picture makes sense now), start typing the name of your program, and hit enter when you've got enough to be specific (or mouse when it shows up).
Zero clicks. :)
This is gnome 3.7 (future 3.8), not 4.x, by the way.
languages are right to left). Therefore it made better sense to have the favourites bar and the workspace selection on the right side of the desktop presentation. Why do we have to slide from extreme top left to extreme right to select an alternate workspace. Ergonomical design and how people use the computer to generate output would indicate that there is much to do to improve Gnome.
I agree that the "extreme slide" you describe here makes workspaces hard to use.
This extension helps, by making the workspaces already expanded so you don't need to go all the way to the edge -- I think it particularly makes sense with today's typical wide-screen monitors. https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/503/always-zoom-workspaces/ Unfortunately, not updated to 3.7 yet.
Particularly if you get in the habit of using the key to activate the overview rather than the hot corner in the top right, problem mostly solved. (I'm still looking for an extension to make the entire top of the screen activate the overview....)
Hi Matthew,
Thanks for the reply about my feedback. I too, appreciate your feedback. As I noted, there are a few areas in Gnome where extra thought has/had to be given to make it worthwhile to implement. Here is what irks me.
The split into FREQUENT and ALL makes me wonder about FAVOURITES Bar. Both are favourites, in my view. By the way, regarding FREQUENT, I decided to walk through all the applications in the ALL side, and sure enough, the icon was copied to FREQUENT. But I was unable to determine how to purge icons in the FREQUENT category. This inability to purge from FREQUENT really bothered me.
And the other two things that bothered me were (ALL) now no longer had categories such as programming, system, etc. (so I would not have to scroll a fully merged list).
One major request, and that is to put the [:::] icon next to the Activities bar. Having it there will reduce by two, the number of mouse clicks required to find an application in the ALL side. Positioning it there may eliminate the "Activities" button.
In closing, I am responding as an end-user. I have done so because I look to ease of use by end-users as most important. I feel that the end-user is an afterthought.
Regards Leslie Mr. Leslie Satenstein 50 years in Information Technology and going strong. Yesterday was a good day, today is a better day, and tomorrow will be even better.mailto:lsatenstein@yahoo.com alternative: leslie.satenstein@gmail.com SENT FROM MY OPEN SOURCE LINUX SYSTEM.
--- On Thu, 4/4/13, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org wrote:
From: Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Subject: Re: [Design-team] First evaluations after testing Anaconda and Gnome installations F19 TC3 To: "Fedora Design Team" design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Date: Thursday, April 4, 2013, 8:57 AM
On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 11:11:16PM -0700, Leslie S Satenstein wrote:
With Fedora 19, Gnome 4.x it takes 7 mouse clicks. By the way, with Cinnamon, it is 1 mouse click to open the menu, then slide to the
Worth noting that it's very search focused and therefore keyboard friendly. Hit the overview key (probably has a windows logo on it; hey, at least the picture makes sense now), start typing the name of your program, and hit enter when you've got enough to be specific (or mouse when it shows up).
Zero clicks. :)
This is gnome 3.7 (future 3.8), not 4.x, by the way.
languages are right to left). Therefore it made better sense to have the favourites bar and the workspace selection on the right side of the desktop presentation. Why do we have to slide from extreme top left to extreme right to select an alternate workspace. Ergonomical design and how people use the computer to generate output would indicate that there is much to do to improve Gnome.
I agree that the "extreme slide" you describe here makes workspaces hard to use.
This extension helps, by making the workspaces already expanded so you don't need to go all the way to the edge -- I think it particularly makes sense with today's typical wide-screen monitors. https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/503/always-zoom-workspaces/ Unfortunately, not updated to 3.7 yet.
Particularly if you get in the habit of using the key to activate the overview rather than the hot corner in the top right, problem mostly solved. (I'm still looking for an extension to make the entire top of the screen activate the overview....)
Dear Sir,
Mr. Satenstein we already told you more then once, that is not the right place to discuss GNOME design as we are not responsible for that. You even called us ignorant for that, still wait for an excuse for that misbehaivor.
You are still here to demand your view it should be done because you dont like to see there is a difference between frequent and favorites. So leave us alone. Please.
@all others dont feed the troll
br gnokii
2013/4/13 Leslie S Satenstein lsatenstein@yahoo.com
Hi Matthew,
Thanks for the reply about my feedback. I too, appreciate your feedback.
As I noted, there are a few areas in Gnome where extra thought has/had to be given to make it worthwhile to implement. Here is what irks me.
The split into FREQUENT and ALL makes me wonder about *FAVOURITES* Bar. Both are favourites, in my view. By the way, regarding FREQUENT, I decided to walk through all the applications in the ALL side, and sure enough, the icon was copied to FREQUENT. But I was unable to determine how to purge icons in the FREQUENT category. This inability to purge from FREQUENT really bothered me.
And the other two things that bothered me were (ALL) now no longer had categories such as programming, system, etc. (so I would not have to scroll a fully merged list).
One major request, and that is to put the [:::] icon next to the Activities bar. Having it there will reduce by two, the number of mouse clicks required to find an application in the ALL side. Positioning it there may eliminate the "Activities" button.
In closing, I am responding as an end-user. I have done so because I look to ease of use by end-users as most important. I feel that the end-user is an afterthought.
Regards
Leslie
*Mr. Leslie Satenstein *50 years in Information Technology and going strong. Yesterday was a good day, today is a better day, and tomorrow will be even better. mailto:lsatenstein@yahoo.com lsatenstein@yahoo.com alternative: leslie.satenstein@gmail.com *SENT FROM MY OPEN SOURCE LINUX SYSTEM.*
--- On *Thu, 4/4/13, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org* wrote:
From: Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org
Subject: Re: [Design-team] First evaluations after testing Anaconda and Gnome installations F19 TC3 To: "Fedora Design Team" design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org Date: Thursday, April 4, 2013, 8:57 AM
On Wed, Apr 03, 2013 at 11:11:16PM -0700, Leslie S Satenstein wrote:
With Fedora 19, Gnome 4.x it takes 7 mouse clicks. By the way, with Cinnamon, it is 1 mouse click to open the menu, then slide to the
Worth noting that it's very search focused and therefore keyboard friendly. Hit the overview key (probably has a windows logo on it; hey, at least the picture makes sense now), start typing the name of your program, and hit enter when you've got enough to be specific (or mouse when it shows up).
Zero clicks. :)
This is gnome 3.7 (future 3.8), not 4.x, by the way.
languages are right to left). Therefore it made better sense to have the favourites bar and the workspace selection on the right side of the desktop presentation. Why do we have to slide from extreme top left to extreme right to select an alternate workspace. Ergonomical design and
how
people use the computer to generate output would indicate that there is much to do to improve Gnome.
I agree that the "extreme slide" you describe here makes workspaces hard to use.
This extension helps, by making the workspaces already expanded so you don't need to go all the way to the edge -- I think it particularly makes sense with today's typical wide-screen monitors. https://extensions.gnome.org/extension/503/always-zoom-workspaces/ Unfortunately, not updated to 3.7 yet.
Particularly if you get in the habit of using the key to activate the overview rather than the hot corner in the top right, problem mostly solved. (I'm still looking for an extension to make the entire top of the screen activate the overview....)
-- Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ < mattdm@fedoraproject.org http://mc/compose?to=mattdm@fedoraproject.org> _______________________________________________ design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.orghttp://mc/compose?to=design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
design-team mailing list design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team
Hi Leslie,
Feedback about the GNOME desktop in Fedora is not appropriate to send to the Fedora design team as we have no control over it.
Rather, the list you'll want to send your feedback to is the fedora desktop list.
~m
On 04/04/2013 02:11 AM, Leslie S Satenstein wrote:
I thought you may be interested in what I encountered.
In my evaluation, I got more negative feelings about Gnome than the 3.6 version. With 3.6 version, for any program not within the favourites bar, it requires 4 mouse clicks to launch.
With Fedora 19, Gnome 4.x it takes 7 mouse clicks. By the way, with Cinnamon, it is 1 mouse click to open the menu, then slide to the appropriate application and click a second time. Done. There is a favourites bar as well on the side, and a second favourites bar on the bottom panel.
For a user of the system. Office, browse, email, some installed packages and games, Gnome 4.x is very heavy on using the left mouse button. I ended up with tendonitus and had to quit using Gnome, or suffer major tendon damage (repetitive action damage). It is I that had the problem and I cannot say that others will have experienced similar problems.
I do have questions about Gnome 4. What is the difference between Favourites bar contents and Frequent items. If items are used frequently, they should replace the items in the favourites bar. Frenquent items list is maintained dynamically, and often incorrectly, and the other is a static placement. Did anyone notice that if an item is in Frequent side of the collection, it is no longer in the All side of the collection.
My major grype with Gnome Desktop is the [:::] (9 sided die) launcher. Why is it not removed from the favourites bar and placed next to Activities? Putting it there would save two clicks on the mouse. With a little logic, it may even be possible to replace Activities by this [:::] launcher.
If we look at the Linux users in the world, the majority of the population writes from left to right. (Arabic, Hebrew, and a few other languages are right to left). Therefore it made better sense to have the favourites bar and the workspace selection on the right side of the desktop presentation. Why do we have to slide from extreme top left to extreme right to select an alternate workspace. Ergonomical design and how people use the computer to generate output would indicate that there is much to do to improve Gnome.
I am trying to be positive about identifying and fixing items that cause Linux users to shy away from Gnome.
Regards
Leslie
*Mr. Leslie Satenstein *50 years in Information Technology and going strong. Yesterday was a good day, today is a better day, and tomorrow will be even better. mailto:lsatenstein@yahoo.com alternative: leslie.satenstein@gmail.com *SENT FROM MY OPEN SOURCE LINUX SYSTEM.*
--- On *Tue, 4/2/13, design-team-request@lists.fedoraproject.org /design-team-request@lists.fedoraproject.org/* wrote:
From: design-team-request@lists.fedoraproject.org <design-team-request@lists.fedoraproject.org> Subject: Welcome to the "design-team" mailing list To: lsatenstein@yahoo.com Date: Tuesday, April 2, 2013, 3:43 PM Welcome to the design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org </mc/compose?to=design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org> mailing list! To post to this list, send your email to: design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org </mc/compose?to=design-team@lists.fedoraproject.org> General information about the mailing list is at: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/design-team If you ever want to unsubscribe or change your options (eg, switch to or from digest mode, change your password, etc.), visit your subscription page at: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/options/design-team/lsatenstein%40yahoo.com You can also make such adjustments via email by sending a message to: design-team-request@lists.fedoraproject.org </mc/compose?to=design-team-request@lists.fedoraproject.org> with the word `help' in the subject or body (don't include the quotes), and you will get back a message with instructions. You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: efkaahvo Normally, Mailman will remind you of your lists.fedoraproject.org mailing list passwords once every month, although you can disable this if you prefer. This reminder will also include instructions on how to unsubscribe or change your account options. There is also a button on your options page that will email your current password to you.
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