docs April 2007

docs@lists.fedoraproject.org

34 participants
93 discussions

Fragmentation in Linux Documentation?
by Rahul Sundaram 21 May '07

21 May '07

Hi Fedora docs are linked from the story line. Useful thing to keep in mind that we are constantly serving a bigger audience http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/07/04/18/2312218.shtml Rahul

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Self Introduction: Frank
by Francis Earl 21 May '07

21 May '07

My real name is Francis Earl, for obvious reason however, I prefer Frank. I currently reside in Phoenix, Arizona. (PST) I'm currently not working, however I am 3 classes from an AAS in Network Technology. My primary purpose for joining the arts team is to hopefully make entry easier for people interested in Fedora. I wish to do this by providing information on fedoraproject.org that will hopefully assist them in getting started. I believe that other projects are so popular because the requirements for entry are lower, and hopefully I'll help ensure Fedora starts down a similar path. I was an early contributor to Ubuntu documentation, and have made contributions to many OpenSUSE wiki pages. These are mostly related to what normal users will want to do when they get started, very basic things explained because I was sick of answering them in the IRC channels, and also to remind me of the process :) I don't think anything really makes me an excellent match for the project. I think I simply have the time to write the pages many would find tedious, things directed at new users. Everyone was one once though, and I don't know about you, but it was very confusing for me. There are no User Manuals for Fedora users, I believe the wiki should become exactly that. A User Manual for Users by Users, and I don't think such things can be written by anyone but the users :) I feel like I just went through an interview process, is that really the feel people want for contribution to the project? ------------------------------------------------- [fearl@thabox ~]$ gpg --fingerprint 7BDB4407 pub 1024D/7BDB4407 2007-04-29 Key fingerprint = 7125 6099 AAEF C64F 3F3E DC5F 9172 8F72 7BDB 4407 uid Frank Earl (Trey) <lunitik(a)gmail.com> sub 2048g/590237A4 2007-04-29

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Wiki starting points? Drafts...
by Francis Earl 02 May '07

02 May '07

I'm looking for somewhere to get started on the wiki, and I'm not sure where to proceed? This lead me to the Drafts wiki page, am I free to edit these pages as I see fit? What is the etiquette here? Just looking briefly at the "Getting Started" page, I believe a few improvements could be made. It's overtone is very professional, which is intimidating. I also think things like Graphic User Interface and Window Manager should provide links to wikipedia so the user can learn more about the topic if they wish. Wikipedia is provided in the Free Content bookmarks folder in Fedora 7t4, so I don't think that would be an issue? I think the wiki is the wrong place to try and explain such things though. Also, I don't see a way to upload images? There is a saying "a picture tells a thousand words", and I believe it's true. I don't even see a way to add images though? Screenshots (of a particular section of relevance on the desktop) would greatly clarify what things say, and provide an air of confidence for the user "I must be doing it right, it looks the same". Just some thoughts...

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DTDs soon available via PUBLIC URI
by Paul W. Frields 01 May '07

01 May '07

We use two specialty DTDs in the Docs Project, "rpm-info.dtd" and "entities.dtd". Using SGML, these DTDs define the elements and attributes allowed in an XML file which subscribes to them. When you declare a document type using an XML DTD, you must provide a URI for that DTD, either using the SYSTEM or PUBLIC type. A SYSTEM type declaration is always a file local to your system, and that's the kind we've made use of for our "rpm-info" and "entities" specialty files in the Docs Project. A typical DTD in one of our "rpm-info.xml" files might look like this: <!DOCTYPE rpm-info SYSTEM "../../docs-common/packaging/rpm-info.dtd"> But what happens when docs-common is located somewhere different on another contributor's system? This can now happen since we have different module targets for CVS, such as "release-notes" or "release-notes-devel" or "release-notes-devel-dir". Enter the PUBLIC type declaration. The PUBLIC type is used for a DTD that's available, well, publicly. :-) Things like DocBook XML use PUBLIC DTDs because you can find the DTD on the web in several locations, including: http://www.docbook.org/xml/4.4/docbookx.dtd http://www.oasis-open.org/docbook/xml/4.4/docbookx.dtd A PUBLIC DTD always has a "formal public identifier" (FPI) that sets that DTD apart from all others, but allows the same DTD to be published in many different places without any confusion. For instance, the DocBook XML 4.4 is always: "-//OASIS//DTD DocBook XML 4.4//EN" ...no matter whether it's published at www.docbook.org, www.oasis-open.org, or available locally on your Fedora system in your /usr/share/sgml/docbook/xml-dtd-4.4-1.0-30.1/ folder. It's perfectly permissible to make your own FPIs as long as you don't use another DTD's FPI. (And of course you should play nice and not make it hard for people to tell it's yours.) I've recently made the following FPIs for our rpm-info and entities DTD files: "-//Fedora//DTD Docs RPM-INFO V1.0//EN" "-//Fedora//DTD Docs ENTITIES V1.0//EN" I'm also publishing them at the following URLs, respectively: http://docs.fedoraproject.org/dtds/rpm-info.dtd http://docs.fedoraproject.org/dtds/entities.dtd This means that all our rpm-info and entities documents can start using those URIs to avoid pesky validation errors when your docs-common/ directory ends up in a different place than it was when the rpm-info or entities XML was first written. If you have an XML-aware editor that's net-savvy, it will automatically retrieve the DTD over the network and validate using it. -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Freeze date bump, deadline extended
by Paul W. Frields 30 Apr '07

30 Apr '07

With the bump of the freeze date¹, we now have an extra 7 days for translation time. The Docs team will probably import a few small changes for late-breaking release notes that did not arrive in time to be included in the POT. There should only be a few strings worth of differences. The new deadline will be: * * * 23:59 UTC Thursday, 10 May 2007 * * * Thank you all for your outstanding efforts -- the results are being compiled approximately every day on the wiki.² = = = ¹ http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-April/msg01449.html ² http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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changed filename 'dir' tags
by Teta Bilianou 29 Apr '07

29 Apr '07

I just noticed that in some occasions (eg. en_US/Installer.xml:210(para)), the tag <filename> is used for the /etc directory, whereas in the past it used to be <filename class=\"directory\">. Which one is the appropriate? Should we update it in our translations or should we leave it as is because it will change back in the future? Regards, Teta

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FDSCo Meeting 2007-04-29 Summary
by John Babich 29 Apr '07

29 Apr '07

Attendees: ----------- Paul Frields (stickster) Bob Jensen (BobJensen, EvilBob) John Babich (jmbuser) Dimitris Glezos (glezos) Kushal Das (kushal) Karsten Wade (quaid) Bart Couvreur (couf) Ville-Pekka Vainio (vpv) Jonathan Roberts (jonrob) Summary: --------- 1. F7 release notes status * [stickster] Dumped an update for the postats (and a new, less locally-dependent script) on the wiki last night: see http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics * The deadline is 2359 UTC on May 02 2007, so about 3.5 days left. 2. Discussion of completeness required for translations (part 1) * 90% of translation is customary percentage to be considered for inclusion in final release. * New RPM with additional translations can be made for later spins and updates. 3. Guide schedule and status * Docs team a little behind on guides due to new features in the distro. * [stickster] Wrote email during meeting, https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-April/msg00199.html, on great way to look at current state of docs by using yelp, the GNOME help browser. * [stickster] Continue work on Fedora Implementation Guide (FIG). * [jmbuser] Continue update of Fedora User Guide (FUG). * [JonRob) Get status on System Management Guide (SMG) from Rahul (mether). * [glezos] Do an analysis of PO files completed. 4. Discussion of completeness required for translations (part 2) * [all] If a translation is below 90%, but translator had to leave out a section and would like a manual review, we should do so as a team. * [glezos] Sent email during meeting on this topic to list, see https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-docs-list/2007-April/msg00201.html. 5. F7T4 "release notes" * [quaid] During meeting, mailed wwoods (cc: stickster and Jesse Keating) concerning proper process for publishing official release notes. -- -- John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Docs Project

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Docs translations: About completion percentages
by Dimitris Glezos 29 Apr '07

29 Apr '07

Hey all. So, in 3 days we have the deadline for the release notes translations. F7 is coming. Yay! :) As some of you might already know, to keep the quality of our published Docs high, we have set a high bar for how much of a document could be translated before being published. So, for example, for small documents like 'homepage' and 'about-fedora', we aim to only publish documents completely translated and for larger documents, like 'release-notes', we've set the bar to 90%. This 90% is kind of tricky, because if a document has a 5% of untranslated strings scattered everywhere the document then its quality is lower than a document having 15% of untranslated strings in an "untouched" section or two (especially if these sections are not popular or are buried down in the doc). So, here's a plan: if some language teams believe their 'release-notes' translation is under 90% *but* the untranslated strings are not important, then please send an email to -docs-list and we can see if the document is in a publishable state. Having this in mind while translating sounds like a good idea as well (translate important stuff first tackling section-by-section in final stages). Also, bear in mind that in this release we are planning on releasing an update on the release notes both on the web and on the desktop via an updated RPM. Finally, reminding that the quick-n-dirty stats page is up at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics Hopefully we'll see in the next 3 days 100% translations of the small docs and complete-enough translations of the highly important release notes. Keep up the good work. :) -d -- Dimitris Glezos Jabber ID: glezos(a)jabber.org, GPG: 0xA5A04C3B http://dimitris.glezos.com/ "He who gives up functionality for ease of use loses both and deserves neither." (Anonymous) --

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FDSCo Meeting 2007-04-29 IRC log
by John Babich 29 Apr '07

29 Apr '07

12:10 < stickster> <meeting> 12:10 < BobJensen> I say go for it 12:10 < stickster> Hi everybody! 12:11 < jmbuser> hello 12:11 < stickster> Present right now are stickster, BobJensen, and jmbuser; couf will be along shortly, and quaid may amble in at some point 12:11 < BobJensen> Greetings 12:11 < stickster> Item: release notes status 12:11 < stickster> So we had a successful drop to the L10N folks, and translations are proceeding apace. 12:12 < stickster> I dumped an update for the postats (and a new, less locally-dependent script) on the wiki last night: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/Translation/Statistics 12:12 < jmbuser> stickster: Congrats 12:12 < stickster> The deadline is 2359 UTC on May 02 2007, so about 3.5 days left 12:13 < kushal> stickster, have a question ? 12:13 < stickster> Several locales are completely done, not as many as we'd like but fine work so far 12:13 < stickster> kushal: go 12:13 < kushal> stickster, is 100% is required to be in ISO ? 12:14 < kushal> l10n 12:14 < quaid> oi 12:14 < kushal> EOF 12:14 < stickster> kushal: For release notes, it will probably be something in the 90% range 12:14 < BobJensen> We have used 90% in the past 12:14 < stickster> kushal: If it's not that high, you can still get an entry in the Web-only release that comes a week or two afterward 12:14 < kushal> stickster, and other pages like homepage, readme 12:15 < kushal> stickster, I am only guy here for bn_IN :) 12:15 < stickster> kushal: We are going to do a more proactive job of updating the fedora-release-notes package this release cycle 12:15 < kushal> stickster, will try to be in 905 12:16 < stickster> So if it's not ready for the ISO, you will still be able to get a later release with a new RPM 12:16 * couf is alive 12:16 < kushal> s/905/90% 12:16 < stickster> The problem is having a half-done translation on the installation program does not look very attractive 12:16 < kushal> stickster, Yes 12:16 < stickster> But if the goal is functionality for later spins including updates, we can just make a new RPM later including the new translations 12:17 < kushal> I will do my best 12:17 < stickster> kushal: we know you will -- much appreciated 12:17 < kushal> thank you 12:17 < stickster> kushal: If you want, get the homepage and about-fedora done first and then worry about release-notes 12:17 < quaid> now would be a good time for us to hear if there is going to be a schedule slip for the final release; that is, one that effects our schedule 12:17 < kushal> stickster, both done 12:18 < vpv> will release-notes get into ISO if it completely translated but about-fedora, homepage etc. are not complete? 12:18 < kushal> stickster, readme is also covered 12:18 < stickster> kushal: as of last night I see 32/8 for your about-fedora and 32/5 for homepage 12:18 < BobJensen> vpv: yes, they are separate modules now as I understand it 12:19 < kushal> stickster, yes, still confused with some words :p 12:19 < stickster> vpv: Asked and answered 12:19 < kushal> stickster, those will be fixed tomorrow 12:19 < stickster> kushal: thanks 12:19 < stickster> OK, let's move on, we can pick up other L10N questions after the meeting 12:19 < vpv> BobJensen: thanks 12:19 < stickster> quaid: +1 on schedule slip... don't know anything yet about one 12:19 < stickster> BobJensen: +1 12:20 < glezos> hi ya all. Sorry for being late. I'll try to be around, doing some other obligations at the same time 12:20 < stickster> glezos: HI!! 12:20 < glezos> stickster: :) 12:20 < stickster> Wow, our attendance has swelled :-) 12:20 * stickster hands gavel to quaid thinking we're done with topic #1 12:21 < couf> yep, let's move on 12:21 < jmbuser> +1 12:21 < quaid> oh, joy! 12:22 < quaid> let's talk about them guides ... 12:22 < stickster> so... guide schedule. :-\ 12:22 < stickster> I'll come right out and say we're a little behind here. I am working on the IG now (like, last few days) 12:22 * quaid admittedly isn't having a great insight about this. 12:23 < stickster> And I think I may be ready for the scheduled PO drop 12:23 < quaid> ok, that we can talk about 12:23 < stickster> But there are things that have happened in the distro that I didn't even expect over the last month, which has put me further behind :-( 12:23 < quaid> we don't want to be in the position of pushing content for trans that isn't really ready, right? 12:23 < stickster> Correct 12:23 < couf> quaid: +1 12:24 < stickster> But we don't want a blank space for the IG for F7 eithre 12:24 < stickster> *either 12:24 < couf> any probable changes to anaconda coming (/me guesses not) 12:24 < quaid> well, IG is one thing, yes 12:24 < stickster> There's the FUG also 12:25 < quaid> we're at the time to focus all our energies on only the FUG and FIG 12:25 < quaid> everything else, well 12:25 < stickster> I think mether has some work going on the Yum guide 12:25 < stickster> But he's doing that on the wiki, so meh 12:25 < quaid> meh 12:25 * stickster doesn't care for shepherding wiki docs anymore, too big a PITA 12:25 < quaid> so there is a conversion back, maybe we can use the Info for that 12:26 < stickster> Sure, depending on the extent of changes 12:26 < quaid> ok, how about we tell everyone on list that we are not going to try to deliver anything for F7 except the relnotes modules, FIG, FUG, and Yum guide 12:26 < couf> I'm guessing it's gonna be all new content 12:27 < quaid> and get the lead writers for those to specify right away what help they need 12:27 < quaid> so it can get done 12:27 < stickster> I think Rahul snapped up a couple people for this work just recently on the list (?) 12:27 < stickster> I don't know what they've done, though, since I haven't seen much in the way of wiki commits. 12:28 < couf> I know he's got 1 or 2 guys, but not sure what's going on there 12:28 < JonRob> he asked for help and pointed us in direction of the "working notes" 12:28 < JonRob> (hi btw) 12:28 < JonRob> i've been waiting for a break in my schedule to get started, and i suppose the same is true of others 12:29 < couf> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Drafts/SoftwareManagementGuide/WorkingNo… 12:29 * stickster sees yumex at top of list and rolls his eyes 12:31 < couf> yeah, we should choose pirut or yumex 12:31 < jmbuser> I did the proposed topics and they certainly are not cast in stone 12:31 < stickster> couf: pirut, clearly. 12:31 < couf> stickster: my guess, yes :) 12:31 < jmbuser> Feel free to change them as needed 12:32 < stickster> Well, let's not get into the weeds here. Point is, as quaid said, if work is needed somewhere, post for assistance 12:32 < stickster> We need to carry more traffic and issues to the list 12:32 * stickster is scribbling away on IG, and should be able to handle the work there 12:33 < quaid> stickster: uh, are you sure? 12:33 < couf> stickster: thank you 12:33 < stickster> yeah, I think so 12:33 < quaid> ok 12:34 < quaid> spin up a build soon and ask for comments, perhaps 12:34 < stickster> quaid: Actually, I was just going to say.... 12:34 < stickster> (and this is for everyone) 12:34 < stickster> A GREAT way of looking at current state of docs is to use yelp, the GNOME help browser. 12:34 < stickster> Do a CVS checkout of the doc, then do "make validate-xml-en_US" 12:35 < stickster> then run "yelp file://$PWD/en_US/<nameofdoc>.xml" 12:35 < stickster> That's how I do spot checks, it removes the need for a build. 12:35 * couf gotta run -- dinner 12:35 < stickster> The less extra work required, the more likely it will get done! :-D 12:35 < stickster> yelp reads DocBook automatically. A little of the presentation might differ, but that's trivial. 12:36 < quaid> well, you'll get more eyes with an HTTP URL :), but maybe it's not required 12:36 * glezos is happy to note that it reads localized documents as well. 12:36 < stickster> glezos: yup 12:36 < glezos> stickster: great info, thanks. Do send an email on the lists about this.. 12:37 < stickster> glezos: good point, will do 12:37 < glezos> much easier to proofread than a browser 12:37 < jmbuser> +1 12:40 < stickster> Anything else on this topic or is everyone napping now? 12:41 < JonRob> so what are the immediate goals? 12:41 < stickster> JonRob: For what? 12:41 < JonRob> FUG, FIG and SIG? 12:41 < JonRob> with regard to the guides 12:41 < stickster> FIG -- none from here, I'm working on it. 12:41 < JonRob> ok 12:42 < stickster> SMG -- Rahul is in charge, please ping him on the list 12:42 < JonRob> yeah ok 12:42 < JonRob> just thought it would be good to have it clearly laid out 12:42 < jmbuser> I volunteered to lead the FUG - I plan to do a marathon session if need be 12:42 < stickster> JonRob: I see two bullets on the front matter of the SMG -- 1. check for changes in F7 12:42 < stickster> 2. see WorkingNotes for new items to add 12:43 < stickster> JonRob: Have you a working Rawhide system? 12:43 < JonRob> i plan to install test 4 once it's released 12:43 < stickster> JonRob: It was released on Thursday 12:43 < JonRob> oh i missed that one! 12:43 < JonRob> well then yes, i will do soon 12:43 < stickster> JonRob: Once yo uhave it installed, read the content and check the instructions it gives against your system, and make changes as needed to match reality 12:44 < JonRob> ok :D 12:44 < stickster> Once the existing material has been checked and verified, you can move on to new stuff 12:44 < stickster> Just my opinion, maybe Rahul's is different, so I don't want to step on his toes 12:44 < JonRob> ok sorry, i think accidentaly sidetracked things there - wasn't my intention! 12:45 < stickster> Not a problem, just trying to emphasize that proactivity is a good rule, it's easier to get forgiveness than permission 12:45 * stickster says, as he mucks up CVS with hubris 12:45 < stickster> Tommy would be so proud! :-D 12:46 < jmbuser> I just got F7T4 LiveCD ISO yesterday downloaded and burned, and plan to install to hard drive ASAP 12:46 < stickster> jmbuser: That should work fine for testing yum, I'd think 12:46 * glezos notes that quote from stickster... a really good one.. 12:47 < stickster> Make sure after you install you update yum from Rawhide -- it just got a heck of a lot faster in the last 24 hours! 12:47 < jmbuser> stickster: ok 12:47 < stickster> jmbuser: Sorry, I think I just confused you with JonRob, sorry 12:47 < JonRob> sure 12:47 < stickster> sorry 2x 12:47 * quaid is sorry, bit distracting here this morning 12:47 < stickster> Everyone's sorry, see? 12:48 < jmbuser> sorry 12:48 < stickster> So, there's really not much left on the agenda, just AOB 12:48 < stickster> :_D 12:49 * glezos looked up AOB in wikipedia and wonders if it is an acronym for 'Antyfaszystowska Organizacja Bojowa' 12:50 < JonRob> haha 12:50 < stickster> All Other Bidnez 12:50 < jmbuser> lol 12:50 < stickster> anyone? 12:50 < glezos> oh, a Q 12:51 < glezos> about l10n 12:51 < stickster> glezos: go 12:51 < jmbuser> stcikster: Can I run yum anyway? 12:51 < stickster> jmbuser: uh... sure :-) 12:51 < glezos> did we notice a decrease of docs translations in F7 or an increase? Asking because we were worried if it would be a good idea for Docs not to use elvis for this release 12:51 < quaid> hmmm, good question ... 12:51 < stickster> yes it is 12:52 < quaid> ha! I just threw out my fc6 checkout ... 12:52 < stickster> glezos: I can't tell you activity-related stats but you can see from the stats on the wiki what work has been done 12:52 < quaid> but we can count PO files, right? 12:52 < stickster> sure 12:53 * quaid uses viewcvs 12:53 * stickster thinks he heard glezos volunteer to do the analysis 12:53 < stickster> s/the/an/ since we all know the old saw about stats 12:54 * glezos remembers being given the task without volunteering... :) 12:54 < glezos> I'll do it, ok :) 12:54 < glezos> BTW. Maybe its a good time to decide how much percentage of relnotes translation we would accept, since we have some minutes... Last year in greek we translated everything but the eclipse and gcc sections so, technically, we were below 95%.. but I think it was an OK document to be published 12:54 < stickster> I think 90% is a good mark 12:55 < quaid> ah, good point there 12:55 < stickster> homepage and about-fedora are very small so I think 100% is not a huge requirement 12:55 < BobJensen> stickster: +1 12:55 < glezos> stickster: if the 10% is scattered in the document, it's a very bad mark, but if it's a particular section (especially a deep, highly technical one), even 80% would be a good mark 12:55 < glezos> +1 for homepage & rest 12:55 < quaid> I think glezos point is a good one 12:56 < stickster> Well, we have to set a mark somewhere 12:56 < quaid> maybe we can make that guidance clear 12:56 < stickster> 80% is fine by me too, but it needs to be a mark. 12:56 < quaid> is the % mark the right one though? 12:56 < BobJensen> and the mark has to be easy to check 12:56 < stickster> I don't kow, but any mark we set 3.5 days before the PO deadline is not a super-helpful one for translators 12:56 < stickster> s/kow/know/ 12:56 < stickster> BobJensen: +1 12:56 < glezos> I suggest to lower the mark but be very precise on what we'd like the 20% to be. 12:57 < BobJensen> raw numbers will prevent us from having to manually browse all the translations 12:57 < glezos> Take a look at: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/Beats 12:57 < stickster> BobJensen: and... +1 again 12:58 < BobJensen> if some translation is below that but the translator had to leave out a section and would like a manual review I think that perhaps we could look that way 12:58 < glezos> stickster: I agree that it's kind of late... Should have thought of it earlier. :( 12:58 < stickster> I'm going to recuse myself from this decision, simply because the work to enforce it is going to be beyond me this cycle. 12:59 < glezos> OTOH, sending an email saying "80% is OK as far as the 20% is a continuous section or two, of the following: ..." 12:59 < stickster> Whatever we decide, it needs to be documented on the wiki under DocsProject/Schedule for the next release 12:59 < stickster> +email 12:59 < glezos> OK, I'll send an email 12:59 < stickster> Yeah, let's please discuss on the list before we lay anything down 12:59 < glezos> and see what people think.. if a team believes it needs to loosen the 90% for this release, we can talk about it. 12:59 < BobJensen> "Hey I am at 85% one or two sections are 'untouched' but the rest is done" would be OK IMO" 13:00 < stickster> We should keep in mind the multi-release goal, though -- 13:00 < stickster> We are only 3.5 days from deadline for what goes on the ISO. 13:00 < stickster> There's still a whole additional *3 WEEKS* for the Web-only release notes version. 13:00 < BobJensen> right 13:01 < stickster> And we can do a post-release fedora-release-notes package update after the fact, too 13:01 < stickster> Which we ARE going to make use of this release cycle. 13:01 < quaid> how about .... 90% or explain why we should accept it? 13:01 < quaid> so, it forces the review back on the team, if they think they hit the mark regardless of %, then justify it to u 13:01 < stickster> Where explanation != "we have many users in <LANG> locale" 13:01 < BobJensen> I think keeping the expectation high will make for a better finish on the project's product 13:01 < quaid> don't make us hunt it down, etc. 13:02 < BobJensen> quaid: +1 13:02 * stickster wants to avoid any self-recriminations around here about not getting things done on time -- we did a GREAT job getting things out on time this release, and we allowed MORE translation time than ever before 13:02 < quaid> glezos: does that seem fair to you? 13:03 < quaid> processes++ 13:03 < glezos> quaid: didn't really understand it, sorry 13:03 < quaid> glezos: like this ... 13:04 < quaid> glezos: we send a reminder email that 90% is the mark, but that we understand that it matters what is left untranslated in such a case, so ... 13:04 < quaid> glezos: the reminder email says that we are going to stick with 90%, but if a translator/team thinks they hit the mark or did good enough 13:04 < quaid> they need to send in a "request for exception" 13:05 < quaid> and that triggers a review, so we look through the translation and see if it is indeed good enouhg. 13:05 < glezos> OK. I guess I'll be the one handling the exceptions...? :) 13:05 < BobJensen> we can be flexible if there is a good reason for it 13:05 < stickster> I think the decision should be made by a team of Docs folks including glezos 13:05 < quaid> glezos: well, could be :) ... but we mainly need to find editor help to say, "yeah, good enough" 13:06 < quaid> team approach++ 13:06 < stickster> We do it *on the list* 13:06 < glezos> stickster: glad you said that. :) 13:06 < quaid> co' 13:06 < glezos> wouldn't want to tackle this alone 13:06 < stickster> right 13:06 < quaid> btw, did anyone else notice the bogus "release notes" in the test4 announcement? 13:06 < glezos> OK, I'm writing the email now to get it over with 13:07 < stickster> Well, I wouldn't say bogus since it appears they were compiled from our actual relnotes, but yes 13:07 * quaid wrote a kind of harsh email about that he needs to mellow down a bit 13:07 < quaid> stickster: were they recent? 13:07 < stickster> Yes, like 24-48 hours before release apparently 13:07 < stickster> Looks like wwoods did it -- he may not be cognizant of our processes yet 13:08 < quaid> hmmm, not for a lack of trying 13:08 < jmbuser> I thought they kind of came out of nowhere 13:08 < quaid> stickster: it looked like it contained content not in the Beats 13:08 < stickster> hm 13:08 < stickster> Well, Rahul did a few updates over the last few days that will be in the Web-only version, wonder if that was inclusive 13:09 < quaid> ok, I'll find a way to email wwoods without being a jerk about it :) 13:09 < stickster> IYDM could you cc me and/or f-docs-l? 13:09 < stickster> (latter if appropriate) 13:09 < quaid> it's just, you know, we worked are arses off to get the notes in the ISO and on the Web, and we scored one deep link in that whole announcement and that's it 13:10 < quaid> stickster: yeah, you and jesse are on it, since it's a release process we need to work out 13:11 < stickster> OK, I'll jump in with $0.02 13:11 < stickster> I think maybe he got the mistaken impression from our test1-test3 process that test4 would go the same way, regardless of our repeated statements at the top saying "real relnotes coming in test4" :-D 13:12 < stickster> We could be real bastards and redirect the wiki page to Docs/Beats 13:12 < JonRob> *wonders if this will all be in the meeting minutes :D 13:12 < stickster> Certainly 13:12 < stickster> We always dump an IRC log 13:13 < stickster> OK, are we about done then? 13:13 * jmbuser thinks transparency is a good thing 13:13 < quaid> yes, thanks :) 13:13 * stickster needs to jet and get some other things done, then return to FIG 13:14 < jmbuser> +1 13:14 < stickster> not that it concerns anyone else :-D 13:14 * stickster ego-- 13:16 < BobJensen> +1 to wrap it up 13:17 < jmbuser> agreed 13:18 < stickster> Someone needs to volunteer to mail log and minutes, and post links as shown in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings/Minutes 13:19 < jmbuser> that would be me :-) 13:19 < stickster> sweet 13:19 < jmbuser> who wants to count it down? 13:20 < EvilBob> 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 13:21 < stickster> </meeting>

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Reading docs from CVS
by Paul W. Frields 29 Apr '07

29 Apr '07

Rather than doing temporary builds of documents, you can use the yelp GNOME Help Browser to read DocBook documents directly. To read a document "under construction" in CVS, do the following: 1. Checkout the document: $ export CVSROOT=:ext:<username>@cvs.fedoraproject.org:/cvs/docs $ cvs co install-guide-devel 2. Validate the XML to ensure all the dependency files are bulit: $ cd install-guide-devel/install-guide $ make validate-xml-<LANG> # <LANG> = en_US, pt, ... 3. Open the document "parent" file in yelp: $ yelp file://$PWD/<LANG>/fedora-install-guide.xml As you make changes, you can hit Ctrl+R in yelp to reload the changes immediately. This is also far easier than rebuilding to see your changes in HTML! -- Paul W. Frields, RHCE http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 Fedora Project: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PaulWFrields irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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