A team of folks took videos of various talks at Linux Fest Northwest. They want to offer direct downloads as an alternative to the flash based streams available at ustream.tv. I have tentatively offered (with stated caveat that Infrastructure had to approve) hosting space on the/a torrent server for these videos.
I don't yet have an estimate on the total size, but there are 12~ videos, all somewhere around an hour in length. It may be a while yet before they're all re-encoded into our preferred format (.ogg) but I wanted to get the ball rolling here.
Is this something Fedora (Infrastructure) would be willing to provide?
On Thu, May 01, 2008 at 06:34:45PM -0400, Jesse Keating wrote:
A team of folks took videos of various talks at Linux Fest Northwest. They want to offer direct downloads as an alternative to the flash based streams available at ustream.tv. I have tentatively offered (with stated caveat that Infrastructure had to approve) hosting space on the/a torrent server for these videos.
Would these be torrented, or http direct download?
I thought the deal with the new torrent server was that we got disk space and bandwidth to host torrents, not direct downloads.
I don't yet have an estimate on the total size, but there are 12~ videos, all somewhere around an hour in length. It may be a while yet before they're all re-encoded into our preferred format (.ogg) but I wanted to get the ball rolling here.
Is this something Fedora (Infrastructure) would be willing to provide?
Hosting videos has come up a few times. We host videos from FUDCon because it's our event, but have not the infrastructure to host significant amounts of video - it gets expensive (disk and bandwith both) in a hurry, and so far we haven't found a sponsor willing to underwrite this.
archive.org may be a good place to try hosting these.
Thanks, Matt
On Fri, 2008-05-02 at 20:48 -0500, Matt Domsch wrote:
Would these be torrented, or http direct download?
Torrent. I did not make any mention of direct downloads as I understand that can be significantly more expensive for Fedora to manage.
On Thu, 1 May 2008, Jesse Keating wrote:
A team of folks took videos of various talks at Linux Fest Northwest. They want to offer direct downloads as an alternative to the flash based streams available at ustream.tv. I have tentatively offered (with stated caveat that Infrastructure had to approve) hosting space on the/a torrent server for these videos.
I don't yet have an estimate on the total size, but there are 12~ videos, all somewhere around an hour in length. It may be a while yet before they're all re-encoded into our preferred format (.ogg) but I wanted to get the ball rolling here.
Is this something Fedora (Infrastructure) would be willing to provide?
So the question is does Fedora offer hosting space for linux conventions and things not directly related to Fedora? I'd be curious to hear what others say.
-Mike
Mike McGrath wrote:
On Thu, 1 May 2008, Jesse Keating wrote:
A team of folks took videos of various talks at Linux Fest Northwest. They want to offer direct downloads as an alternative to the flash based streams available at ustream.tv. I have tentatively offered (with stated caveat that Infrastructure had to approve) hosting space on the/a torrent server for these videos.
I don't yet have an estimate on the total size, but there are 12~ videos, all somewhere around an hour in length. It may be a while yet before they're all re-encoded into our preferred format (.ogg) but I wanted to get the ball rolling here.
Is this something Fedora (Infrastructure) would be willing to provide?
So the question is does Fedora offer hosting space for linux conventions and things not directly related to Fedora? I'd be curious to hear what others say.
I'm not opposed to hosting this but perhaps phrasing the question that way is taking it out of our hands. We can say "We have/don't have space/bandwidth/manpower to do this" but whether it's something we should be doing seems to be a goals question that belongs to the Board to decide.
PS: fedorahosted can contain things which aren't directly related to Fedora. Hosting videos of linux-fest talks on the torrent server would be a different type of resource but not necessarily a different category politically.
-Toshio
On Fri, May 02, 2008 at 08:53:06PM -0500, Mike McGrath wrote:
On Thu, 1 May 2008, Jesse Keating wrote:
A team of folks took videos of various talks at Linux Fest Northwest. They want to offer direct downloads as an alternative to the flash based streams available at ustream.tv. I have tentatively offered (with stated caveat that Infrastructure had to approve) hosting space on the/a torrent server for these videos.
I don't yet have an estimate on the total size, but there are 12~ videos, all somewhere around an hour in length. It may be a while yet before they're all re-encoded into our preferred format (.ogg) but I wanted to get the ball rolling here.
Is this something Fedora (Infrastructure) would be willing to provide?
So the question is does Fedora offer hosting space for linux conventions and things not directly related to Fedora? I'd be curious to hear what others say.
In general, I would love it if we could. I don't believe we have the resources in place today to be able to do so effectively.
In my mind, we need: 1) additional people in the infrastructure team to help with the admin side of this.
1a) there's a need for existing infrastructure team members to serve as sponsors/mentors. I'm sorry I haven't had the time to do more of this lately.
2) an assessment of the real compute/storage/bandwidth needs for this idea. We're notoriously bad at estimating the amount of storage a given idea will actually need in production.
3) significant donations (cash, equipment, hosting, ...) to realize these needs.
Mike and the team have been effective in securing donations from a number of companies lately [1], with more in the works. Kudos! And if we were talking about hosting a gig of files for direct download by a few hundred people, we could probably manage within the scope of these sponsorships. But if we want to be as aggressive as some of the early fedoratv.com plans were, we'll need some pretty serious additional sponsorships.
[1] http://fedoraproject.org/sponsors
On Sat, 2008-05-03 at 08:14 -0500, Matt Domsch wrote:
Mike and the team have been effective in securing donations from a number of companies lately [1], with more in the works. Kudos! And if we were talking about hosting a gig of files for direct download by a few hundred people, we could probably manage within the scope of these sponsorships. But if we want to be as aggressive as some of the early fedoratv.com plans were, we'll need some pretty serious additional sponsorships.
For the current need I think we're way way scaled down from fedoratv days. All I currently want to do is take the videos once converted, upload them to the/a torrent server and offer them up as torrents for a period of time. And while this might be a precidence setter, it is something of a one-off, not the start of a campaign to host all the Linux Fest videos we can get our hands on. I gave two Fedora specific talks at this event, one of which showcasing the tools and services that Fedora has created so it's not entirely non-Fedora in scope. If we to, I would be fine with just hosting the two Fedora specific talk videos.
2008/5/2 Jesse Keating jkeating@j2solutions.net:
For the current need I think we're way way scaled down from fedoratv days. All I currently want to do is take the videos once converted, upload them to the/a torrent server and offer them up as torrents for a period of time. And while this might be a precidence setter, it is something of a one-off, not the start of a campaign to host all the Linux Fest videos we can get our hands on.
We need to be prepared for future requests though and how to handle them. We may not be campaigning, but I am sure other groups will notice we did this for the Linux Fest Northwest and then possibly go on to ask for help with a video torrent service as well. It is probably best we work out what we say yes and what we say no to before we get too far into it. And it may be as simple as saying this *is* a one time thing until we work out those other details.
In the ideal world, I do think it would be great if we could do things like this - for Fedora related videos from a conference or other talks. Brett brings up several good points on that type of service.
I gave two Fedora specific talks at this event, one of which showcasing the tools and services that Fedora has created so it's not entirely non-Fedora in scope. If we to, I would be fine with just hosting the two Fedora specific talk videos.
It would be great for these videos to be available. It helps people who could not be at the event hear about these tools and services and also provides material for Ambassadors and such to reference at local events they do attend - keeps us from having to fly Jesse everywhere. :)
My suggestion would be (if current resources allow for it - people and hardware) that we start with hosting Fedora specific videos. Use this as a pilot program. It is easier to justify as the content is directly related to Fedora and acts as a natural filter for requests. We can use this hosting experiment as a way to better "guesstimate" what would need to be in place (disk space wise, etc) before offering space for other conference videos. Once we have a better idea of space, bandwidth, etc. we can determine how to scale or if we should scale to the larger offering.
~Jeffrey
On Sat, 2008-05-03 at 10:33 -0400, Jeffrey Tadlock wrote:
My suggestion would be (if current resources allow for it - people and hardware) that we start with hosting Fedora specific videos. Use this as a pilot program. It is easier to justify as the content is directly related to Fedora and acts as a natural filter for requests. We can use this hosting experiment as a way to better "guesstimate" what would need to be in place (disk space wise, etc) before offering space for other conference videos. Once we have a better idea of space, bandwidth, etc. we can determine how to scale or if we should scale to the larger offering.
Fair, but maybe expanded a bit? If a Fedora Ambassador went to an event and in the name of Fedora gave at least one (captured) talk, all captured talks of said event would be acceptable to host on Fedora infrastructure, should the resources of the day handle it, for a set time.
On Fri, May 02, 2008 at 12:35:25PM -0400, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Sat, 2008-05-03 at 10:33 -0400, Jeffrey Tadlock wrote:
My suggestion would be (if current resources allow for it - people and hardware) that we start with hosting Fedora specific videos. Use this as a pilot program. It is easier to justify as the content is directly related to Fedora and acts as a natural filter for requests. We can use this hosting experiment as a way to better "guesstimate" what would need to be in place (disk space wise, etc) before offering space for other conference videos. Once we have a better idea of space, bandwidth, etc. we can determine how to scale or if we should scale to the larger offering.
+1. This seems entirely reasonable, and in keeping with what we've done in the past. Torrent-only, as Jesse noted, is sufficient for this purpose at this time.
Fair, but maybe expanded a bit? If a Fedora Ambassador went to an event and in the name of Fedora gave at least one (captured) talk, all captured talks of said event would be acceptable to host on Fedora infrastructure, should the resources of the day handle it, for a set time.
This isn't bad, but until we have a space estimate of available space (remembering we're about to load F9 there too) I wouldn't want to commit those resources to non-Fedora-specific content yet.
On Sat, 3 May 2008, Matt Domsch wrote:
On Fri, May 02, 2008 at 08:53:06PM -0500, Mike McGrath wrote:
On Thu, 1 May 2008, Jesse Keating wrote:
A team of folks took videos of various talks at Linux Fest Northwest. They want to offer direct downloads as an alternative to the flash based streams available at ustream.tv. I have tentatively offered (with stated caveat that Infrastructure had to approve) hosting space on the/a torrent server for these videos.
I don't yet have an estimate on the total size, but there are 12~ videos, all somewhere around an hour in length. It may be a while yet before they're all re-encoded into our preferred format (.ogg) but I wanted to get the ball rolling here.
Is this something Fedora (Infrastructure) would be willing to provide?
So the question is does Fedora offer hosting space for linux conventions and things not directly related to Fedora? I'd be curious to hear what others say.
In general, I would love it if we could. I don't believe we have the resources in place today to be able to do so effectively.
In my mind, we need:
- additional people in the infrastructure team to help with the admin side of this.
1a) there's a need for existing infrastructure team members to serve as sponsors/mentors. I'm sorry I haven't had the time to do more of this lately.
an assessment of the real compute/storage/bandwidth needs for this idea. We're notoriously bad at estimating the amount of storage a given idea will actually need in production.
significant donations (cash, equipment, hosting, ...) to realize these needs.
I'm hoping to get a big 3) that will help with 2) in the not too distant future. What I had envisioned (if we can get it) is a 3 tier distribution system.
1) the primary content on our primary mirror. This will typically be DIRECTLY related to Fedora the OS or EPEL.
2) Secondary content. This would be a place for us to re-distribute the hosted tarballs, spins, videos, etc. This is all that value-added stuff that will behave just as our primary mirror (with a series of other mirrors grabbing content)
3) archives. Far less expensive then the first 2 but does have a lot of storage requirements.
As of this morning we actually have 1 and 3[1] taken care of. I'm hopeful 2 will be more visible in the next couple of months though, since it is a donation, I don't want to start making changes and things in case it falls through.
I didn't really have a mirrormanager plan for 2 yet though.. mdomsch, any ideas?
-Mike
On Sat, May 03, 2008 at 09:36:59AM -0500, Mike McGrath wrote:
On Sat, 3 May 2008, Matt Domsch wrote:
In my mind, we need:
- additional people in the infrastructure team to help with the admin side of this.
1a) there's a need for existing infrastructure team members to serve as sponsors/mentors. I'm sorry I haven't had the time to do more of this lately.
an assessment of the real compute/storage/bandwidth needs for this idea. We're notoriously bad at estimating the amount of storage a given idea will actually need in production.
significant donations (cash, equipment, hosting, ...) to realize these needs.
I'm hoping to get a big 3) that will help with 2) in the not too distant future. What I had envisioned (if we can get it) is a 3 tier distribution system.
- the primary content on our primary mirror. This will typically be
DIRECTLY related to Fedora the OS or EPEL.
- Secondary content. This would be a place for us to re-distribute the
hosted tarballs, spins, videos, etc. This is all that value-added stuff that will behave just as our primary mirror (with a series of other mirrors grabbing content)
- archives. Far less expensive then the first 2 but does have a lot of
storage requirements.
As of this morning we actually have 1 and 3[1] taken care of. I'm hopeful 2 will be more visible in the next couple of months though, since it is a donation, I don't want to start making changes and things in case it falls through.
I didn't really have a mirrormanager plan for 2 yet though.. mdomsch, any ideas?
secondary.fp.o is up and config'd in mirrormanager now. So download.fedoraproject.org/pub/fedora-secondary/releases/ directs as you would expect. We can do likewise for other such content, no problem. Just have separate rsync modules, and an intentional separate path (e.g. /pub/something) for each, and MM will be fine.
infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Jeffrey Tadlock -
Jesse Keating -
Matt Domsch -
Mike McGrath -
Toshio Kuratomi