env-and-stacks September 2014

env-and-stacks@lists.fedoraproject.org

11 participants
10 discussions

Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2014-09-16)
by Honza Horak 07 Oct '14

07 Oct '14

WG meeting will be at 13:00 UTC (14:00 London, 15:00 Brno, 9:00 Boston, 22:00 Tokyo) in #fedora-meeting on Freenode. = Topics = * Language specific mirrors for Fedora Playground compliant packages * SCLs, building above them and their position in Fedora/EPEL * Picking chairman for the next meeting * OpenFloor

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Language Stacks in Docker Hub
by Václav Pavlín 07 Oct '14

07 Oct '14

Hi all, Docker announced language stacks images in Docker Hub last week: http://blog.docker.com/2014/09/docker-hub-official-repos-announcing-languag… They are all based on Debian and pretty outdated. We should consider creation of such images for our stacks based on Fedora - we are thinking of releasing F21 Alpha base image so we could maybe build them on top of it. As we still don't have a build service I proposed some time ago, we could use Docker Automated Builds - we would "just" need to prepare Dockerfiles. Have a look at what they provide and let me know if you think it's interesting for us. Thanks, Vašek -- Lead Infrastructure Engineer Developer Experience Brno, Czech Republic

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Meeting minutes from Env and Stacks WG meeting (2014-09-30)
by Marcela Mašláňová 30 Sep '14

30 Sep '14

============================================ #fedora-meeting: Env and Stacks (2014-09-30) ============================================ Meeting started by mmaslano at 13:03:32 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-09-30/env-and-stacks.2… . Meeting summary --------------- * init process (mmaslano, 13:04:01) * recommendation of Koschei (mmaslano, 13:05:14) * AGREED: Env & Stacks WG recommends adopting Koschei as the suggested means of tracking build failures on dependency updates (mmaslano, 13:17:09) * ACTION: bkabrda -> koschei developers should write about Koschei on Fedora wiki (mmaslano, 13:20:31) * conda - everyone should look at it (mmaslano, 13:20:35) * Fedora Stacks images (mmaslano, 13:58:29) * ACTION: follow up with stano about mapping CVEs to Docker images that need rebuilding (mmaslano, 14:22:52) * ACTION: propose reasonable dockerfile for our favourite languages (mmaslano, 14:23:44) * chairman (mmaslano, 14:28:13) * Open Floor (mmaslano, 14:32:32) Meeting ended at 14:36:14 UTC. Action Items ------------ * bkabrda -> koschei developers should write about Koschei on Fedora wiki * follow up with stano about mapping CVEs to Docker images that need rebuilding * propose reasonable dockerfile for our favourite languages Action Items, by person ----------------------- * bkabrda * bkabrda -> koschei developers should write about Koschei on Fedora wiki * **UNASSIGNED** * follow up with stano about mapping CVEs to Docker images that need rebuilding * propose reasonable dockerfile for our favourite languages People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * ncoghlan (94) * mmaslano (65) * juhp_ (37) * vpavlin (25) * bkabrda (11) * hhorak (8) * zodbot (6) * pingou (3) * samkottler (0) * sicampbell (0) * tjanez (0) * juhp (0) * pkovar (0) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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Koschei recommendation proposal: please vote who have not yet
by Honza Horak 30 Sep '14

30 Sep '14

Hi voting members, on the last meeting we had not enough voting members on-line to vote on the following proposal: "Env & Stacks will recommend Koschei as a good idea and we would like to see it as official fedora service." So, please, who has not voted yet, do so until the next meeting. So far mmaslano, juhp and hhorak are +1 for that proposal. Thanks! Honza

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looking for another candidate for Env & Stacks WG
by Marcela Mašláňová 24 Sep '14

24 Sep '14

Hi guys, I won't be around for few months, so I'm looking for a replacement of empty seat after me. Honza accepted to be a liaison of the group, but there will be still one regular empty seat. Any takers? Thanks, Marcela

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Agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting (2014-09-02)
by Marcela Mašláňová 16 Sep '14

16 Sep '14

WG meeting will be at 13:00 UTC (14:00 London, 15:00 Brno, 9:00 Boston, 22:00 Tokyo) in #fedora-meeting on Freenode. = Topic = * how hhorak's idea about summary from each WG worked * epel/epic proposal - chat with smoodge * OpenFloor

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Language specific mirrors for Fedora Playground compliant packages
by Nick Coghlan 16 Sep '14

16 Sep '14

As mentioned in my self-introduction email, I'm interested in the idea of filtered Fedora provided mirrors of PyPI/RubyGems/etc that contained only packages that had been through Fedora Playground levels of review. Having such selective mirrors available would mean that we could freely choose between using the language level packaging tools and RPMs on a project by project basis without having to recheck the licenses ourselves. It would also provide a way for us to easily share the results of our own licensing reviews when we bring in new dependencies from upstream. I believe this approach would also set up a good pipeline for bringing new packages into Fedora: Step 1: basic review - if the package is even remotely acceptable to Fedora (e.g. suitable license, not actively malicious), then flag it for inclusion in the appropriate language specific mirror Step 2: draft spec file - make an initial cut at a spec file (e.g. autogenerated) - provide as a COPR repo - include in Fedora Playground Step 3: full packaging policy compliance - iterate on the spec file and the package to attain policy compliance - incorporate into Fedora itself Does this sound like an approach worth pursuing? In the specific case of Python, devpi is an existing project that I believe would be eminently suitable to providing a service like this (using the whitelisting feature to indicate packages which had been checked for Fedora Playground policy compatibility): http://doc.devpi.net/ Regards, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan Red Hat Hosted & Shared Services Software Engineering & Development, Brisbane HSS Provisioning Architect

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Anybody has something for agenda for Env-and-Stacks WG meeting today? (2014-09-09)
by Honza Horak 15 Sep '14

15 Sep '14

Any agenda for today's meeting? I've quickly look at the EPEL meeting minutes from the last Friday, for anybody else interesting: http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/epel/2014-09-05/epel-weeklym-meeting-2014-… Otherwise, I still haven't got any brilliant idea about collaboration between WGs using better way to share summary from each WG. So, if nobody comes with some topic that needs to be discussed, I'd postpone the meeting for the next week. Regards, Honza

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Self-introduction & offer of assistance
by Nick Coghlan 15 Sep '14

15 Sep '14

Hi folks, I know some of you already, but since I just signed up to the list I figured it would be worthwhile explaining my interest in and perspective on the "Environment & Stacks" working group. I'm interested in the work of the Environments & Stacks working group from two perspectives: 1. As one of the chief cat herders in the upstream Python packaging ecosystem, I'm interested in working more closely with Linux distributions to resolve some of the issues that can make working with Python software on Linux more complicated than it needs to be. My Python Packaging 2.0 talk at linux.conf.au 2014 covers that aspect pretty well, and the write-up at http://lwn.net/Articles/580399/ is a good summary. 2. In my day job, I'm the deployment & provisioning architect for several of Red Hat's internal development support tools, including beaker-project.org and bugzilla.redhat.com. The primary languages we currently need to support in production are Python, Ruby, Perl, and Java (along with the ubiquitous JavaScript). I've been having various off-list discussions with Slavek and Langdon White (Red Hat's developer experience architect), but realised recently that it made more sense to take those discussions out of private email and bring them to the Envs & Stacks working group. In joining this group, my main aim is to help work out a good developer workflow for internal use in such a way that similarly smooth workflows can be adopted by anyone else developing on Fedora and deploying on CentOS or RHEL (including as containers running on Project Atomic or RHEL 7). In that vein, my current architectural concept is leaning towards a model where applications are structured along the following lines: - Application & dependencies (language specific) - Language runtime (Software Collections) - Base OS layer (Fedora/CentOS/RHEL) By default, we'd just use the versions of things that were in the base OS layer. If we needed something more specific (whether older on Fedora, or newer on CentOS/RHEL), we'd prefer to get it through a software collection if it was available. Within a language runtime, we'd switch away from yum/rpm entirely and instead use the language specific tools. The advantage of this approach is that: 1. It can be applied directly to existing applications that use upstream packaging tools 2. Switching to pip (et al) inside the software collection avoids any remaining issues with depending on software collections 3. It plays nice with any deployment target (bare metal, VM, container image build) This brings me to a notion which isn't in the current E&S PRD, but which *would* be helpful to us if we adopt this deployment model, rather than always deploying software as RPMs: having language specific repos available where the packages had been through the same level of review as was needed to get into Fedora Playground, but still used the *language* level packaging formats. (This isn't actually my idea, it came up in a conversation with Langdon. However, it ties in so well with other things I'm doing, I decided to take it and run with it). However, I'll post that idea in its own thread, rather than tacking it on here. Regards, Nick. -- Nick Coghlan Red Hat Hosted & Shared Services Software Engineering & Development, Brisbane HSS Provisioning Architect

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Proposal for every WG to send a short summary *to other WGs directly*
by Honza Horak 02 Sep '14

02 Sep '14

Hi working groups members, since we have learned on Flock that new Fedora working groups do not communicate with each other much (or enough), I'd like to propose the following: Every working group will time to time (e.g. weekly) send short summary about what they did / were talking about directly to mailing lists of other working groups + to devel(a)fp.o. Really only a short summary with links where one can find details. I tried to collect such info from the meeting logs and mailing lists for the last few weeks for Env and Stacks WG: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/env-and-stacks/2014-August/000487… I found many notes are really worth spreading beyond groups' borders, but it takes too much time for one person to collect all the information. Thus, proposing to "do a summary once per group and share with other groups". Another benefit would be that Matt would have better content for his 5tiftw. I don't think we need to sync about date or frequency, just remembering to send a direct mail if anything interesting is done/discussed should work fine. List of proposed MLs to send this summary to: server(a)lists.fedoraproject.org desktop(a)lists.fedoraproject.org cloud(a)lists.fedoraproject.org env-and-stacks(a)lists.fedoraproject.org devel(a)lists.fedoraproject.org Comments, ideas or better solutions are welcome as usually, but I might be offline until Sunday, so do not expect any answers from me in that time :) Cheers, Honza

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env-and-stacks September 2014