Does anyone know of an app that can implement xembed feature? My Pidgin IM, DavMail Gateway, Audacious, and many other apps are annoyingly not included in the systry because of KDE not supporting xembed. I figured if there might be a widget that implements xembed? This is a major fail for KDE, IMNSHO. --
Thanks, E. Recio
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On Thursday 23 July 2015 13:32:58 Emilio Recio wrote:
Does anyone know of an app that can implement xembed feature?
http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2014/06/where-are-my-systray-icons/
Pidgin
https://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/rvokal/pidgin-indicator/
This is a major fail for KDE, IMNSHO.
Wrong. It's a major fail for your applications.
Am 24.07.2015 um 03:16 schrieb Markus Slopianka:
On Thursday 23 July 2015 13:32:58 Emilio Recio wrote:
Does anyone know of an app that can implement xembed feature?
http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2014/06/where-are-my-systray-icons/
Pidgin
https://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/rvokal/pidgin-indicator/
This is a major fail for KDE, IMNSHO.
Wrong. It's a major fail for your applications
strange attitude - if *non-kde* apps have problems with the systray and did not before KDE5 it's hardly a failure of the application, it's *again* a incompatible and ignorant regression as it happens every few years so that i even start asking myself "am i right in my mind to use linux desktop"
"fail for your applications" - WTF - the world of application developers don't turn around KDE and broken desktops, i heard the same b**** with the over a year flickering control bar with KDE 4.0 in combination with nvidia cards - the same - it worked befor KDE3->KDE4, so KDE is the problem and not the card and it's the job of a developer to handle it if it has worked before AND NO "it's free" don't justify carelessly while whine every year why linux desktops are a niche and how to change that
if developers like linux desktops no longer be a niche the just need to stop user visible major changes and breaking things which worked and are in use - that's it, no Fedora.next, just don't break the user expierience once per year and you will stop lose existing ones and get new ones which no longer need to fear that their workflow get broken again and again
Reindl, I bash on a lot of design decision from the KDE and GNOME camps alike, but this wasn't one of them. Xembed had to go, it was a design nightmare. As far as who's fault it is.. I really gotta go with the apps on this one. They had four -years- of warning that the "traditional" xembed way of sys tray icons was going away eventually. If they couldnt find time to port over to Status Notifiers / App Indicators by then that that's their problem / or the project is dead anyway.
On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 24.07.2015 um 03:16 schrieb Markus Slopianka:
On Thursday 23 July 2015 13:32:58 Emilio Recio wrote:
Does anyone know of an app that can implement xembed feature?
http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2014/06/where-are-my-systray-icons/
Pidgin
https://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/rvokal/pidgin-indicator/
This is a major fail for KDE, IMNSHO.
Wrong. It's a major fail for your applications
strange attitude - if *non-kde* apps have problems with the systray and did not before KDE5 it's hardly a failure of the application, it's *again* a incompatible and ignorant regression as it happens every few years so that i even start asking myself "am i right in my mind to use linux desktop"
"fail for your applications" - WTF - the world of application developers don't turn around KDE and broken desktops, i heard the same b**** with the over a year flickering control bar with KDE 4.0 in combination with nvidia cards - the same - it worked befor KDE3->KDE4, so KDE is the problem and not the card and it's the job of a developer to handle it if it has worked before AND NO "it's free" don't justify carelessly while whine every year why linux desktops are a niche and how to change that
if developers like linux desktops no longer be a niche the just need to stop user visible major changes and breaking things which worked and are in use - that's it, no Fedora.next, just don't break the user expierience once per year and you will stop lose existing ones and get new ones which no longer need to fear that their workflow get broken again and again
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
does the same application work on the Fedora default desktop (GNOME)? if the answer is yes KDE is to blame, period
Am 24.07.2015 um 06:59 schrieb Eric Griffith:
Reindl, I bash on a lot of design decision from the KDE and GNOME camps alike, but this wasn't one of them. Xembed had to go, it was a design nightmare. As far as who's fault it is.. I really gotta go with the apps on this one. They had four -years- of warning that the "traditional" xembed way of sys tray icons was going away eventually. If they couldnt find time to port over to Status Notifiers / App Indicators by then that that's their problem / or the project is dead anyway.
On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
Am 24.07.2015 um 03:16 schrieb Markus Slopianka: On Thursday 23 July 2015 13:32:58 Emilio Recio wrote: Does anyone know of an app that can implement xembed feature? http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2014/06/where-are-my-systray-icons/ Pidgin https://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/rvokal/pidgin-indicator/ This is a major fail for KDE, IMNSHO. Wrong. It's a major fail for your applications strange attitude - if *non-kde* apps have problems with the systray and did not before KDE5 it's hardly a failure of the application, it's *again* a incompatible and ignorant regression as it happens every few years so that i even start asking myself "am i right in my mind to use linux desktop" "fail for your applications" - WTF - the world of application developers don't turn around KDE and broken desktops, i heard the same b**** with the over a year flickering control bar with KDE 4.0 in combination with nvidia cards - the same - it worked befor KDE3->KDE4, so KDE is the problem and not the card and it's the job of a developer to handle it if it has worked before AND NO "it's free" don't justify carelessly while whine every year why linux desktops are a niche and how to change that if developers like linux desktops no longer be a niche the just need to stop user visible major changes and breaking things which worked and are in use - that's it, no Fedora.next, just don't break the user expierience once per year and you will stop lose existing ones and get new ones which no longer need to fear that their workflow get broken again and again
Don't have my laptop in front of me to confirm but my guess is no. Moving away from Xembed and dropping support for it in a too-be-decided future version of the desktop environments was announced in 2011 with the advent of Status Notifiers and libappindicator. On Jul 24, 2015 01:12, "Reindl Harald" h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
does the same application work on the Fedora default desktop (GNOME)? if the answer is yes KDE is to blame, period
Am 24.07.2015 um 06:59 schrieb Eric Griffith:
Reindl, I bash on a lot of design decision from the KDE and GNOME camps alike, but this wasn't one of them. Xembed had to go, it was a design nightmare. As far as who's fault it is.. I really gotta go with the apps on this one. They had four -years- of warning that the "traditional" xembed way of sys tray icons was going away eventually. If they couldnt find time to port over to Status Notifiers / App Indicators by then that that's their problem / or the project is dead anyway.
On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
Am 24.07.2015 um 03:16 schrieb Markus Slopianka: On Thursday 23 July 2015 13:32:58 Emilio Recio wrote: Does anyone know of an app that can implement xembed feature?http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2014/06/where-are-my-systray-icons/
Pidgin https://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/rvokal/pidgin-indicator/ This is a major fail for KDE, IMNSHO. Wrong. It's a major fail for your applications strange attitude - if *non-kde* apps have problems with the systray and did not before KDE5 it's hardly a failure of the application, it's *again* a incompatible and ignorant regression as it happens every few years so that i even start asking myself "am i right in my mind to use linux desktop" "fail for your applications" - WTF - the world of application developers don't turn around KDE and broken desktops, i heard the same b**** with the over a year flickering control bar with KDE 4.0 in combination with nvidia cards - the same - it worked befor KDE3->KDE4, so KDE is the problem and not the card and it's the job of a developer to handle it if it has worked before AND NO "it's free" don't justify carelessly while whine every year why linux desktops are a niche and how to change that if developers like linux desktops no longer be a niche the just need to stop user visible major changes and breaking things which worked and are in use - that's it, no Fedora.next, just don't break the user expierience once per year and you will stop lose existing ones and get new ones which no longer need to fear that their workflow get broken again and again
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
Quick Google search for "Gnome Shell Pidgin SysTray" had a fair few hits on how to get a working icon back. So it would appear that Gnome also did remove support for Xembed, likely even before KDE did. On Jul 24, 2015 01:20, "Eric Griffith" egriffith92@gmail.com wrote:
Don't have my laptop in front of me to confirm but my guess is no. Moving away from Xembed and dropping support for it in a too-be-decided future version of the desktop environments was announced in 2011 with the advent of Status Notifiers and libappindicator. On Jul 24, 2015 01:12, "Reindl Harald" h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
does the same application work on the Fedora default desktop (GNOME)? if the answer is yes KDE is to blame, period
Am 24.07.2015 um 06:59 schrieb Eric Griffith:
Reindl, I bash on a lot of design decision from the KDE and GNOME camps alike, but this wasn't one of them. Xembed had to go, it was a design nightmare. As far as who's fault it is.. I really gotta go with the apps on this one. They had four -years- of warning that the "traditional" xembed way of sys tray icons was going away eventually. If they couldnt find time to port over to Status Notifiers / App Indicators by then that that's their problem / or the project is dead anyway.
On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 12:44 AM, Reindl Harald <h.reindl@thelounge.net mailto:h.reindl@thelounge.net> wrote:
Am 24.07.2015 um 03:16 schrieb Markus Slopianka: On Thursday 23 July 2015 13:32:58 Emilio Recio wrote: Does anyone know of an app that can implement xembed feature?http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2014/06/where-are-my-systray-icons/
Pidgin https://copr.fedoraproject.org/coprs/rvokal/pidgin-indicator/ This is a major fail for KDE, IMNSHO. Wrong. It's a major fail for your applications strange attitude - if *non-kde* apps have problems with the systray and did not before KDE5 it's hardly a failure of the application, it's *again* a incompatible and ignorant regression as it happens every few years so that i even start asking myself "am i right in my mind to use linux desktop" "fail for your applications" - WTF - the world of application developers don't turn around KDE and broken desktops, i heard the same b**** with the over a year flickering control bar with KDE 4.0 in combination with nvidia cards - the same - it worked befor KDE3->KDE4, so KDE is the problem and not the card and it's the job of a developer to handle it if it has worked before AND NO "it's free" don't justify carelessly while whine every year why linux desktops are a niche and how to change that if developers like linux desktops no longer be a niche the just need to stop user visible major changes and breaking things which worked and are in use - that's it, no Fedora.next, just don't break the user expierience once per year and you will stop lose existing ones and get new ones which no longer need to fear that their workflow get broken again and again
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
Eric Griffith wrote:
Quick Google search for "Gnome Shell Pidgin SysTray" had a fair few hits on how to get a working icon back. So it would appear that Gnome also did remove support for Xembed, likely even before KDE did.
GNOME Shell actually has limited support for the old XEmbed-based protocol (the icons end up hidden inside a popup menu, unless you install the "Topicons" extension) and does not support the Status Notifier Protocol at all (though there is now another third-party extension adding support for it). So GNOME Shell is no incentive for developers to move to the new protocol. (They'll end up with the same old protocol as before (through the XEmbed fallback code all the client-side Status Notifier implementations so far still carry) and the same crap support as before.)
The GNOME Shell developers refused to implement the Status Notifier specification because they claimed that it was "unclear" and that it doesn't fit their UI design goals. They just live in their own island and simply don't give a darn about interoperability with software written for Plasma or Unity.
Kevin Kofler
Eric Griffith wrote:
Reindl, I bash on a lot of design decision from the KDE and GNOME camps alike, but this wasn't one of them. Xembed had to go, it was a design nightmare. As far as who's fault it is.. I really gotta go with the apps on this one. They had four -years- of warning that the "traditional" xembed way of sys tray icons was going away eventually. If they couldnt find time to port over to Status Notifiers / App Indicators by then that that's their problem / or the project is dead anyway.
IMHO, the application is technically the wrong piece of software to blame, though in the end it will be their effort to port to libappindicator. I blame mainly the toolkit, i.e., GTK+. It is perfectly possible for the toolkit to implement drop-in support for the new protocol requiring NO application changes. Qt did it. (And kdelibs 4 has supported the new protocol out of the box from day 1.) GTK+ refused to do it.
Now, there is also the refusal by several application developers to support libappindicator, and the refusal by several Fedora package maintainers to enable libappindicator support where upstream optionally supports it or where patches are available (from Ubuntu or elsewhere). All together, it is a major fiasco, caused by GNOME developers' boycott of non-GNOME desktop environments.
Kevin Kofler
On Jul 24, 2015 10:09 AM, "Markus Slopianka" kamikazow@gmx.de wrote:
Go troll somewhere else.
Expressing an opinion isn't trolling. I understand the frustration, change is usually challenging. In this case I believe that the application folks dropped the ball. They had plenty of advanced notice. If you develop an application and want it to run properly you need to keep up with changes.
On 24 July 2015 at 02:16, Markus Slopianka kamikazow@gmx.de wrote:
This is a major fail for KDE, IMNSHO.
Wrong. It's a major fail for your applications.
How do you justify that remark? Is every "failing" app violating some standard? Even if they are, what happened to Robustness Principle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle ?
poc
Am 24.07.2015 um 12:40 schrieb Patrick O'Callaghan:
On 24 July 2015 at 02:16, Markus Slopianka <kamikazow@gmx.de mailto:kamikazow@gmx.de> wrote:
> This is a major fail for KDE, IMNSHO. Wrong. It's a major fail for your applications.How do you justify that remark? Is every "failing" app violating some standard? Even if they are, what happened to Robustness Principle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle?
it's gone
we are in the age where everybody thinks that he must re-invent himself each and every day and as soon as things are working properly throw the stability away and start from scratch to make "all better"
when things are better (again) go back to "start from scratch"
all that hypocritical "we fixed this and optimized that" don't tell that it already worked fine in the past by hoping people forget or new users really buy that "wow this got better" because they don't know that it is the third iteration of fix/optimize/break/rewrite
that may be nice for a developer but it's pure crap for users actually try to do their stuff with computers and not interested seek all the time how to get known behavior back or often wait months to get things back to work which where not ready but replaced
The robustness principle was fine for xembed. This isn't xembed. Xembed could -not- exist going forward, it wouldn't even -usable- on future systems considering the icons for xembed are hardcoded to be 22x22 pixels. 22x22 pixels looks like trash on my 1080p monitor, I don't want to think about what it would look like on a 4K monitor in the future. Better to just rip the bandaid off now when 4K is still gaining traction so that by the time it comes around we are hiDPI ready across the board. For KDE specifically trying to do an Xembed systray on a Wayland desktop via XWayland is, by Martin Graesslin's own words, "not the most trivial task."
I get that annoyance and inconvenience of your app breaking on Gnome 3 and KDE 4 systems, I have a few that broke too. But I was also there 4 years ago when Ubuntu and Gnome said "We're bin'ing Xembed at some point in the future. Move to Status Notifiers or AppIndicators or be left behind. Pidgin, Audacious, DavMail, etc all had plenty of warning it was coming.
On Fri, Jul 24, 2015 at 6:54 AM, Reindl Harald h.reindl@thelounge.net wrote:
Am 24.07.2015 um 12:40 schrieb Patrick O'Callaghan:
On 24 July 2015 at 02:16, Markus Slopianka <kamikazow@gmx.de mailto:kamikazow@gmx.de> wrote:
> This is a major fail for KDE, IMNSHO. Wrong. It's a major fail for your applications.How do you justify that remark? Is every "failing" app violating some standard? Even if they are, what happened to Robustness Principle: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robustness_principle?
it's gone
we are in the age where everybody thinks that he must re-invent himself each and every day and as soon as things are working properly throw the stability away and start from scratch to make "all better"
when things are better (again) go back to "start from scratch"
all that hypocritical "we fixed this and optimized that" don't tell that it already worked fine in the past by hoping people forget or new users really buy that "wow this got better" because they don't know that it is the third iteration of fix/optimize/break/rewrite
that may be nice for a developer but it's pure crap for users actually try to do their stuff with computers and not interested seek all the time how to get known behavior back or often wait months to get things back to work which where not ready but replaced
kde mailing list kde@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/kde New to KDE4? - get help from http://userbase.kde.org
-
Emilio Recio -
Eric Griffith -
Gerald B. Cox -
Kevin Kofler -
Markus Slopianka -
Patrick O'Callaghan -
Reindl Harald