Are there plans to allow for both Plasma 5 and KDE Workspaces to coexist in F22?
Currently, that seems not possible due to, at least, Network Manager components being obsoleted by Plasma 5 installation.
On Thursday, March 26, 2015 04:41:56 PM Ed Greshko wrote:
Are there plans to allow for both Plasma 5 and KDE Workspaces to coexist in F22?
Hi,
no, there are currently no plans to support both. Plasma 5 is an upgrade to KDE Workspaces 4, so we treat it as such (updated the packages).
It is technically possible to have legacy packages with KDE Workspaces 4, which would conflict with Plasma 5, so users could install one or the other, but the burden of maintaining two KDE desktops is one too many.
Currently, that seems not possible due to, at least, Network Manager components being obsoleted by Plasma 5 installation.
Yum/dnf update should give you smooth upgrade of KDE Workspace 4 and all it's components to Plasma 5.
Dan
-- Daniel Vrátil | dvratil@redhat.com | dvratil on #kde-devel, #kontact, #akonadi Software Engineer - KDE Desktop Team, Red Hat Inc.
GPG Key: 0xC59D614F6F4AE348 Fingerprint: 4EC1 86E3 C54E 0B39 5FDD B5FB C59D 614F 6F4A E348
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On 03/26/15 18:03, Daniel Vrátil wrote:
On Thursday, March 26, 2015 04:41:56 PM Ed Greshko wrote:
Are there plans to allow for both Plasma 5 and KDE Workspaces to coexist in F22?
Hi,
no, there are currently no plans to support both. Plasma 5 is an upgrade to KDE Workspaces 4, so we treat it as such (updated the packages).
It is technically possible to have legacy packages with KDE Workspaces 4, which would conflict with Plasma 5, so users could install one or the other, but the burden of maintaining two KDE desktops is one too many.
Currently, that seems not possible due to, at least, Network Manager components being obsoleted by Plasma 5 installation.
Yum/dnf update should give you smooth upgrade of KDE Workspace 4 and all it's components to Plasma 5.
Thanks for that....
On going from F21 to F22 via "fedup" will one have the option to stick with KDE4 or will one be forced into a Plasma 5 upgrade.
I ask this since, at the moment, there are certain aspects of Plasma 5 which don't fully appeal to me. An example of that would be default "Breeze" desktop theme looking rather flat and when I switch to my preferred "Oxygen" desktop theme the "Networks" display when the networks icon on the systray is clicked doesn't display correctly.
- -- If you can't laugh at yourself, others will gladly oblige.
Am 26.03.2015 um 11:14 schrieb Ed Greshko:
On 03/26/15 18:03, Daniel Vrátil wrote:
On Thursday, March 26, 2015 04:41:56 PM Ed Greshko wrote:
Are there plans to allow for both Plasma 5 and KDE Workspaces to coexist in F22?
Hi,
no, there are currently no plans to support both. Plasma 5 is an upgrade to KDE Workspaces 4, so we treat it as such (updated the packages).
It is technically possible to have legacy packages with KDE Workspaces 4, which would conflict with Plasma 5, so users could install one or the other, but the burden of maintaining two KDE desktops is one too many.
Currently, that seems not possible due to, at least, Network Manager components being obsoleted by Plasma 5 installation.
Yum/dnf update should give you smooth upgrade of KDE Workspace 4 and all it's components to Plasma 5.
Thanks for that....
On going from F21 to F22 via "fedup" will one have the option to stick with KDE4 or will one be forced into a Plasma 5 upgrade
"but the burden of maintaining two KDE desktops is one too many" was pretty clear - since nobody maintains KDE4 for F22 you can't stick on it
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On 03/26/15 18:18, Reindl Harald wrote:
"but the burden of maintaining two KDE desktops is one too many" was pretty clear - since nobody maintains KDE4 for F22 you can't stick on it
Well, if you're not given the choice then don't you think it wise to remove "KDE Plasma Workspaces" from the choices listed by "dnf group list"?
- -- If you can't laugh at yourself, others will gladly oblige.
Ed Greshko wrote:
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On 03/26/15 18:18, Reindl Harald wrote:
"but the burden of maintaining two KDE desktops is one too many" was pretty clear - since nobody maintains KDE4 for F22 you can't stick on it
Well, if you're not given the choice then don't you think it wise to remove "KDE Plasma Workspaces" from the choices listed by "dnf group list"?
Why? (It's still called Plasma)
-- Rex
On 03/26/15 20:44, Rex Dieter wrote:
Ed Greshko wrote:
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On 03/26/15 18:18, Reindl Harald wrote:
"but the burden of maintaining two KDE desktops is one too many" was pretty clear - since nobody maintains KDE4 for F22 you can't stick on it
Well, if you're not given the choice then don't you think it wise to remove "KDE Plasma Workspaces" from the choices listed by "dnf group list"?
Why? (It's still called Plasma)
I suppose what is confusing me is the mixture of terminology.
With F22 you have packages installed like "kf5-plasma" which the info describes as "KDE Frameworks 5 Tier 3..." and you have "kde-runtime" which is described as "Core runtime for KDE 4". So, some places I see 4 and some places I see 5.
Then, if I do "dnf group install KDE Plasma Workspaces" I would have expected one of two things to happen. Either it would tell me that I already had it installed or it would have offered to install additional packages that weren't included when F22 was initially installed as that is what happens with F21. I would not have expected a failure.
[root@localhost ~]# dnf group install "KDE Plasma Workspaces" Using metadata from Thu Mar 26 11:00:43 2015 Error: installed package plasma-nm-openswan-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-openswan < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-openswan-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-vpnc-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-vpnc < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-vpnc-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-l2tp-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-l2tp < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-l2tp-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-openvpn-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-openvpn < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-openvpn-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package kf5-baloo-file-5.6.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes baloo-file < 5.0.1-2 provided by baloo-file-4.14.3-1.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-pptp-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-pptp < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-pptp-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-openconnect-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-openconnect < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-openconnect-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-desktop-doc-5.2.1-6.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-runtime-docs < 1:14.12.3-2 provided by kde-runtime-docs-14.12.3-2.fc22.noarch
Am 26.03.2015 um 15:17 schrieb Ed Greshko:
I suppose what is confusing me is the mixture of terminology.
With F22 you have packages installed like "kf5-plasma" which the info describes as "KDE Frameworks 5 Tier 3..." and you have "kde-runtime" which is described as "Core runtime for KDE 4"
uhm runtime != desktop and it exists because you would like to be able to run non-ported KDE4 apps on your KDE5 desktop - wouldn't you?
On Thursday, March 26, 2015 10:17:30 PM Ed Greshko wrote:
On 03/26/15 20:44, Rex Dieter wrote:
Ed Greshko wrote:
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On 03/26/15 18:18, Reindl Harald wrote:
"but the burden of maintaining two KDE desktops is one too many" was pretty clear - since nobody maintains KDE4 for F22 you can't stick on it
Well, if you're not given the choice then don't you think it wise to remove "KDE Plasma Workspaces" from the choices listed by "dnf group list"?
Why? (It's still called Plasma)
I suppose what is confusing me is the mixture of terminology.
With F22 you have packages installed like "kf5-plasma" which the info describes as "KDE Frameworks 5 Tier 3..." and you have "kde-runtime" which is described as "Core runtime for KDE 4". So, some places I see 4 and some places I see 5.
There's been big branding change in the software released by the KDE Community and there is also a big mess in the terminology, so people indeed often get confused.
We have 3 major products now:
KDE Frameworks 5 Set of many libraries split from kdelibs (and other projects) into individual submodules and ported to Qt 5. Those are packaged in Fedora as kf5-foo. kf5- plasma is one of the Frameworks - it's a library that provides Plasma technology , which can be used to build user interfaces (used by Plasma workspace, or for example Amarok to build the main part of UI).
Plasma 5: the workspace based on the Plasma technology and related utilities and applets, successor to KDE Workspaces 4 (packaged as kde-workspace). Those are packaged as plasma-* in Fedora (plasma-workspace, plasma-desktop, plasma- nm etc).
KDE Applications: self-explanatory - applications created by the KDE Community - includes everything from Dolphin to KDE PIM etc. This currently contain mix of applications based on KDE Frameworks 5 (and Qt 5) and kdelibs4, so it will drag in some KDE 4 deps as well (including kde-runtime).
Then, if I do "dnf group install KDE Plasma Workspaces" I would have expected one of two things to happen. Either it would tell me that I already had it installed or it would have offered to install additional packages that weren't included when F22 was initially installed as that is what happens with F21. I would not have expected a failure.
KDE Plasma Workspaces still gives you KDE Plasma Workspaces, but it gives you Plasma 5 workspace instead of KDE Workspace 4.
Hope this clarifies it a bit :-)
Cheers, Daniel
[root@localhost ~]# dnf group install "KDE Plasma Workspaces" Using metadata from Thu Mar 26 11:00:43 2015 Error: installed package plasma-nm-openswan-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-openswan < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-openswan-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-vpnc-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-vpnc < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-vpnc-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-l2tp-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-l2tp < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-l2tp-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-openvpn-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-openvpn < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-openvpn-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package kf5-baloo-file-5.6.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes baloo-file < 5.0.1-2 provided by baloo-file-4.14.3-1.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-pptp-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-pptp < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-pptp-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-openconnect-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-openconnect < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-openconnect-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-desktop-doc-5.2.1-6.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-runtime-docs < 1:14.12.3-2 provided by kde-runtime-docs-14.12.3-2.fc22.noarch
-- Daniel Vrátil | dvratil@redhat.com | dvratil on #kde-devel, #kontact, #akonadi Software Engineer - KDE Desktop Team, Red Hat Inc.
GPG Key: 0xC59D614F6F4AE348 Fingerprint: 4EC1 86E3 C54E 0B39 5FDD B5FB C59D 614F 6F4A E348
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
On 03/27/15 00:00, Daniel Vrátil wrote:
KDE Plasma Workspaces still gives you KDE Plasma Workspaces, but it gives you Plasma 5 workspace instead of KDE Workspace 4.
Hope this clarifies it a bit
Thanks to you and Rex for clearing things up. The 2 of you are most helpful. :-)
- -- If you can't laugh at yourself, others will gladly oblige.
Ed Greshko wrote:
On 03/26/15 20:44, Rex Dieter wrote:
Ed Greshko wrote:
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On 03/26/15 18:18, Reindl Harald wrote:
"but the burden of maintaining two KDE desktops is one too many" was pretty clear - since nobody maintains KDE4 for F22 you can't stick on it
Well, if you're not given the choice then don't you think it wise to remove "KDE Plasma Workspaces" from the choices listed by "dnf group list"?
Why? (It's still called Plasma)
I suppose what is confusing me is the mixture of terminology.
With F22 you have packages installed like "kf5-plasma" which the info describes as "KDE Frameworks 5 Tier 3..." and you have "kde-runtime" which is described as "Core runtime for KDE 4". So, some places I see 4 and some places I see 5.
Then, if I do "dnf group install KDE Plasma Workspaces" I would have expected one of two things to happen. Either it would tell me that I already had it installed or it would have offered to install additional packages that weren't included when F22 was initially installed as that is what happens with F21. I would not have expected a failure.
[root@localhost ~]# dnf group install "KDE Plasma Workspaces" Using metadata from Thu Mar 26 11:00:43 2015 Error: installed package plasma-nm-openswan-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-openswan < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-openswan-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-vpnc-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-vpnc < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-vpnc-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-l2tp-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-l2tp < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-l2tp-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-openvpn-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-openvpn < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-openvpn-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package kf5-baloo-file-5.6.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes baloo-file < 5.0.1-2 provided by baloo-file-4.14.3-1.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-pptp-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-pptp < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-pptp-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-openconnect-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm-openconnect < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-openconnect-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-nm-5.2.1-2.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-plasma-nm < 5.0.0-1 provided by kde-plasma-nm-0.9.3.5-7.fc22.x86_64. installed package plasma-desktop-doc-5.2.1-6.fc22.x86_64 obsoletes kde-runtime-docs < 1:14.12.3-2 provided by kde-runtime-docs-14.12.3-2.fc22.noarch
Looks like some dnf bug, I'll see about updating comps to now refer to any renamed packages in the meantime.
-- rex
Rex Dieter wrote:
Looks like some dnf bug, I'll see about updating comps to now refer to any renamed packages in the meantime.
Comps always needs to refer to real packages. In kickstarts, virtual Provides are not processed either. Obsoletes are, but only if the obsolete package is still in the repo, which it shouldn't be. If the obsolete package is gone, the kickstart processing will figure that no package of that name exists (because it doesn't look at Provides) and just ignore it.
Kevin Kofler
On Thursday 26 of March 2015 07:45 Rex Dieter wrote:
Ed Greshko wrote:
when I switch to my preferred "Oxygen" desktop theme the "Networks" display when the networks icon on the systray is clicked doesn't display correctly
Mind filing a bug about that? (preferably upstream)
-- Rex
Note, that this is not a bug in plasma-nm ("Networks"), but problem of incomplete "Oxygen" desktop theme, which doesn't have all icons used by plasma-nm, so if you want to report a bug, report it to Oxygen desktop theme.
Regards, Jan
On 03/26/15 20:53, Jan Grulich wrote:
On Thursday 26 of March 2015 07:45 Rex Dieter wrote:
Ed Greshko wrote:
when I switch to my preferred "Oxygen" desktop theme the "Networks" display when the networks icon on the systray is clicked doesn't display correctly
Mind filing a bug about that? (preferably upstream)
-- Rex
Note, that this is not a bug in plasma-nm ("Networks"), but problem of incomplete "Oxygen" desktop theme, which doesn't have all icons used by plasma-nm, so if you want to report a bug, report it to Oxygen desktop theme.
Are you saying that the Oxygen desktop theme in F22 is different than the Oxygen desktop theme of F21? Because in F21 I do see the icon for wireless and airplane mode but not in F22.
On Thursday 26 of March 2015 22:28 Ed Greshko wrote:
On 03/26/15 20:53, Jan Grulich wrote:
On Thursday 26 of March 2015 07:45 Rex Dieter wrote:
Ed Greshko wrote:
when I switch to my preferred "Oxygen" desktop theme the "Networks" display when the networks icon on the systray is clicked doesn't display correctly
Mind filing a bug about that? (preferably upstream)
-- Rex
Note, that this is not a bug in plasma-nm ("Networks"), but problem of incomplete "Oxygen" desktop theme, which doesn't have all icons used by plasma-nm, so if you want to report a bug, report it to Oxygen desktop theme.
Are you saying that the Oxygen desktop theme in F22 is different than the Oxygen desktop theme of F21? Because in F21 I do see the icon for wireless and airplane mode but not in F22.
They are probably same, but plasma-nm in kde 4 uses its own icons, while in Plasma 5 it uses icons from desktop theme. Solution for you could be overwrite oxygen network icons with the ones from breeze theme.
Jan
On 03/26/15 22:57, Jan Grulich wrote:
They are probably same, but plasma-nm in kde 4 uses its own icons, while in Plasma 5 it uses icons from desktop theme. Solution for you could be overwrite oxygen network icons with the ones from breeze theme.
I see.
Thanks.
-
Dan Vratil -
Ed Greshko -
Jan Grulich -
Kevin Kofler -
Reindl Harald -
Rex Dieter