marketing June 2007

marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org

50 participants
33 discussions

Re: rotating banners, first idea
by chasd 02 Jul '07

02 Jul '07

> Here's some mockups, I'm not really happy with any of them right > now but > I need to sleep :) Yes, seeing the banners in context makes a difference. My comments below are meant to be constructive, excuse me if they appear harsh. > - http://linuxgrrl.com/misc/new-mock-1.png (bottom of sidebar) > - feels a little unbalanced but not too bad I actually like this layout the best of the three. I think the reason it seems unbalanced is because of the large white area to the right of the logo and above the title graphic ( I won't call it a banner to avoid confusion ). All layouts need "breathing space" however that top area is prime visual real estate. I think adding a tag line to that area would benefit the layout ( of all the pages, even if no banner is used ). > - http://linuxgrrl.com/misc/new-mock-2.png (along top of page) > - im afraid this is going to be too busy unless the banners are > carefully designed to not stand out in comparison to the main banner. I think the banner is too close to the title graphic, they compete visually. If the separation line between the top part of the page with the logo and the banners could be a little stronger, that might help. I feel the first mock up to be a stronger possibility. > right now they are not :) thus they are too busy. > - http://linuxgrrl.com/misc/new-mock-3.png (top of sidebar) > - a little more balanced than the other but the banners don't > line up Again, I think the banner and the title graphic compete too much, and the white space between them seems uncomfortable. This also makes the navigation less important ( farther down the page ). I took the liberty of moving the headline above the title graphic to demonstrate what adding _something_ to the blank area at the top could do to balance the layout for mock up number one. I placed it on the website of the company I work for - <http://www.silveroaks.com/images/new-mock-4cd.png> In that mock up, I would like to see the "What's new in Fedora . . . " link to be bigger and maybe have the type be heavier in weight, but for the purposes of this demonstration I thought this was sufficient. I also am not enamored with that specific tag line for the top right area, I simply used something that already existed in the layout and threw it up there. I also think the color of that tag line ( grey ) is not the best solution, or even the size of the type. The baseline of the tag line is aligned with the baseline of "infinity | freedom | voice" however it seems a bit low. When I placed it higher, it seemed too "floaty" for me. One other possibility is to fade the bottom of the title graphic to white. Since the separation between the logo and the rest of the page is a subtle fade, adding this touch to the title graphic may add some consistency, This would also differentiate the banner from the title graphic. Apologies if my comments are out of line, or if I have violated some rule established for the design of the web site. Charles Dostale

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3rd party repositories vs the floppy disk
by Jonas Karlsson 29 Jun '07

29 Jun '07

Hello all, This is my first post to this list, hopefully some of you can agree to what I'm writing. I've been an Unix user since early 90's and did test Linux for the first time in 1993. I've also been running fedora since core 1 and has been a frequent user of radhat distributions over the years. Not that I've never used other distributions, well I have and most of you guys have. Back in the early Linux years it was debian on firewalls and slackware for coding and redhat for the graphical stuff, well that have since changed. Today I feel happy just running Fedora and release 7 for the moment. But one thing that has always nagged at me is why do the Linux community often have a hard time at working toghether. This is probably the one thing that still makes Linux not go all the way in many offices, because of 3rd party problematics. I (after all my years) still do have big troubble selecting a 3rd party repository every time a new version of fedora comes around. Do I use this or that with this version of fedora, which works best.. and help me upstairs.. you have to choose because they are not campatible and might break your system and kill all of your dependencies, shit!.. Does this sound familiar? No? .. YES!!! This is year 2007 and the problematics above describes scenarios that should have been gone many years ago.. It's like the floppy disk. That sucker still remains in pc systems even today. If you need to install (dont speak #¤%#¤ in the church!, well I'm a scientist so I guess I can.) Windows with advanced scsi options, your driver is on a floppy.. Darn, well luckily for me I do try not to use MS$ server as often as possible so that problem is soon past me. Ok back on track (3rd party repositories) It's way over time to have guys like livna, freshrpms, rpmforge and atrpms etc start a collective, collaborative and functional repository (for the greater good). There are many guys doing the same work that the other one already has done, and some times one repository does not work, the next time it's the other way around. Just start one big community 3rd party repository, define rules, let everyone contribute and mirror it. Now that we finally are past Core and Extras and it is merged into one. The next step shold be to clean up the above described mess that is doing harm to the Fedora users and the general community by creating confusion and eventually breaks your installation. So please guys keep up the good work, but do it together! // Jonas

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LinuxMall
by Rodrigo Padula 25 Jun '07

25 Jun '07

Hello Guys! Here in Brazil we have a Linux Mall http://www.linuxmall.com.br/ This site sell fedora itens like T-shirts, Caps, Pens and others, but, this site dont contribute with the community and i think, dont has permission to sell fedora itens Fedora is a trademark of red hat, so the site would need the Red hat autorization ? I'm right ? Rodrigo Padula http://www.projetofedora.org

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Fedora Project - Response to GITEX Questiionnaire
by John Babich 22 Jun '07

22 Jun '07

Mr. Samer: Here is the Fedora Project's response to your questionnaire concerning our organization. I am the primary contact for the Fedora Project for this event. Please direct any future correspondence to me and I will be happy to handle any of your requests in preparation for GITEX. Best Regards, John Babich Volunteer, Fedora Project 1. What does your company do? The Fedora Project (www.fedoraproject.org) is a collection of projects sponsored by Red Hat (www.redhat.com) and developed as a partnership between the open source community and Red Hat engineers. The goal of Fedora is the rapid progress of free and open source software (FOSS) and content. Public forums. Open processes. Rapid innovation. Meritocracy and transparency. All in pursuit of the best operating system and platform that free software (http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/free-sw.html) can provide. 2. What are your company's key product lines and services? Our key product is the Fedora Linux distribution. It comes out twice a year or so. It's completely free, and we're committed to keeping it that way. It's the best combination of robust and latest software that exists in the Free software world. Our mindset is Doing the Right Thing. To us, that means providing Free and open source software, at no cost, freely usable, modifiable, redistributable, and unencumbered by software patents. 3. Why is your company appearing at GITEX Technology Week? The Fedora Project is part of the free and open source (FOSS) movement, which is currently revolutionizing the way companies, large and small, do business using cutting-edge information technology. We want to encourage the use of FOSS products and approaches among the business community in the Middle East. 4. What products or services will your company be promoting at the show? The Fedora 7 Linux distribution is our primary "product". A full-featured operating system and suite of applications, Fedora 7 is also the basis for the award-winning Red Hat Enterprise Linux, the One Laptop Per Child OS, and various other Linux-based systems. Our "services" are enabling businesses to apply Linux and other open source products, like Firefox web browser or OpenOffice.org office suite, to solve their IT challenges, by developing and distributing a world-class operating system and collection of Free software. 5. What does your company hope to achieve by appearing at GITEX Technology Week? The Fedora Project hopes to promote the further adoption of Free and Open Source technologies in the enterprise business community in the Middle East. 6. How important is GITEX Technology Week to your company's success in the Middle East? GITEX Technology Week is important to us because it gives us the opportunity to meet a very significant cross-section of businesses in the Middle East region. 7. How does your company feel about the Middle East market and the opportunities it presents? The Fedora Project recognizes the tremendous growth of information and communications technologies (ICT) in the region. Free and open source software allow companies to optimize their IT expenditures and invest their budgets wisely. We also have a strong team focussed on internationalization (I18N) and localization (L10N) efforts to meet the needs of end users in this region. 8. What are your 3 strategic business objectives within the Arabian market for 2007? 1. To promote the adoption of Free, open source software and content in the Middle East region. 2. To promote greater awareness of all the options for implementing business solutions. 3. To encourage regional participation in the development of free and open source solutions.

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Linux.org: The Feodra 7 Year Itch
by Bryan Smith 22 Jun '07

22 Jun '07

After 4 years, I've gotta say it. I understand there are some legal issues or tardemark concerns showing the lineage of Red Hat Linux to Fedora Core. Plus there are also marketing aspects on Fedora v. Enterprise. But the general ignorance of those who have never followed the Red Hat / Fedora development line, or left after Red Hat Linux 9, constantly want proof and debate me. We *NEED* Red Hat, or at least via Fedora, to put up a page - linked on the front page - that covers both the 2-2-2 month Rawhide/Development-Beta/Test-Release cycle, followed by the 6-6/6-6-6/6-6-6-6 month release cycler of community to enterprise release (every 2-4 community releases). This would include the full plot going back to Red Hat Linux 4.0, as well as the first Red Hat Linux 6.2E (retroactively called "Enterprise 1"), and how that *PROVEN* lifecycle of package, integration and post-release test has held up. Especially with the regular cycle of community I'm tired of having virtually *NO* pages but my own to refer to on this, to the point I've been writing a book on Enterprise Configuration Management: Fedora/Red Hat Linux (of which I've had not time to complete in the last 18 months worth of 60+ hour/weeks of consultant, not including travel and other time). I used to maintain an unofficial FAQ on this, and I should probably re-blog an update of it. Fedora Core is not more "Beta" than Red Hat Linux was before it. And until Red Hat clarifies that - Enterprise Linux marketing be damned - those who want to demonize it that way will continue, with nothing professionals like myself can point to - other than our own publications or blog articles on the matter. -- Bryan J Smith - mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

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Re: Infinite Freedom??? -- More Insignificant Wisdom ...
by Bryan Smith 20 Jun '07

20 Jun '07

Now that I'm away from my Crackberry ... More Insignificant Wisdom ... On Wed, 2007-06-20 at 13:34 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote: > An absolutely reasonable suggestion. As a matter of fact, the Board > considered that initially, but opted not to separate this content over > concerns of simply not identifying any significant justification/payoff > (and not having the time to implement in time for F7 either). First off, by "suggestion," I merely meant, "okay, if this is what is to happen, here's one way it should happen." Not that I necessarily agree. Secondly, why doesn't this not surprise me that the Board already considered it? Everytime I make a suggestion, as a counter "due process" to what I consider to be -- oh, how can I put this, an "inconsiderate demand" -- it seems the Fedora Project already thought of it. Wow! Now does that mean I understand things, Fedora, etc...??? Is it that maybe my "screwed up" values are similar??? Hmmm, I won't think too long on that. Or maybe, just maybe, the Fedora Board is "Being Bryan Smith." ;) Oh yeah, no ego there (BTW, that's trademarked! Royalties bay-bee!) On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 01:29 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Removing firmware outside of the kernel is easy. Removing kernel in the > firmware is going to be difficult but you or whoever wants to drive such > a effort can probably get in touch with gNewSense folks to coordinate > the effort. If there is a real need for it someone should step up to it. > Let's see if that happens. At what point does this really cross into the kernel space? Or even beyond that, at what point does this cross into someone stepping forward -- outside of Fedora (even if they work on Fedora, for Red Hat, etc...)? A generic facility for user-space loading, update, initrd, etc... would be a nice facility, although I'm not sure it would be entirely feasible. But it would and could, possibly, address some issues. But one thing is for sure, I don't see this being an endeavor for Fedora at all -- at least not a consideration for the distribution. It's really a larger detail to be tackled outside of distribution tools themselves -- especially at the kernel level. Unfortunately, the "screaming experts" tend to cause this stuff to be non-PC, regardless of the legal and GPL compatible bundling or other details it may be. Not sure I want to touch this any further. On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 01:08 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Sure. Do you want to do it? can you explain on what you consider 100% > Free? <tongue-in-cheek>What the FSF does you fool!</tongue-in-cheek> ;-> Seriously now, I don't know or think subjective -- or even if truly objective -- suggestions can and should be made outside of not just merely the Fedora board, but outside of many, community associations. And that includes maybe including this other entity ... like the FSF itself. ;-> What facilities, forums, etc... can Fedora advocates and/or contributors tap to get this discussion rolling? Especially in a more open, and probably more technical arena, to solve the real considerations that some people will have. I mean, even though I used the word "ignorant" -- and strongly feel it applies when I used it (despite the lack of tact) -- we can't ignore that there seems to be significant (majority?) of people who will feel this way. We need an avenue to better explain the issues -- especially since they go outside Fedora itself. In other words, get a crapload of smarter and more civil people than myself together and hash them out. There's got to be a series of both marketing and possibly even technical solutions. On Wed, 2007-06-20 at 13:40 -0500, Rex Dieter wrote: > Rodrigo, > Actually... I'd like to thank you for speaking up, especially about > something you are clearly passionate about. Just because not everyone > agrees with you 100% doesn't mean that you aren't being heard. Please, > keep up the good work (and the good fight)! The great thing about Freedom is also its greatest downfall, especially in an ignorant majority. Not everything is about ignorant majority. Basic social constructs themselves are about majority. Unfortunately, technical specifics tend to be about the expertise that only applies to a minority, and the ignorant majority must be careful not to let their majority view become the self-fulfilling truth -- outside that expertise. I see it regularly with engineering and law myself. Freedom requires careful consideration, due process and analysis -- not merely from an outsider, but as an insider, a stakeholder, someone who has a point to make. We have to remain vigilant in not merely a "stance," but our utmost consideration for the technical _specifics_ and real issues -- from copyright to licensing to trademark to technical ability or even just technical feasibility -- to implement that stance, if possible. That's why it's very important not to merely say "the FSF blah" but to put forth the concerned, technical argument and -- most importantly -- technical _solution_ that implements it. If you cannot provide a technical _solution_, then you must be considerate of the processes _already_ in place to best deal with such consideration, such due process, such "expertise" in moving forward. And as it has been suggested in many ways in this thread now, if you do _not_ like that still, then you are also _free_ to install your own organization, your own due process, your own "expertise" into solving the problem outside these existing processes. Otherwise, you accept the existing processes as they are, and you either take the time and effort to involve yourself in them, and its solution, or you decide to trust those who have already taken your views -- which are rarely (if never) unique -- into account and tried to accommodate them best. On Thu, 2007-06-21 at 01:08 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote: > Sure. Do you want to do it? can you explain on what you consider 100% > Free? <tongue-in-cheek>What the FSF does you fool!</tongue-in-cheek> ;-> Seriously now, I don't know or think subjective -- or even if truly objective -- suggestions can and should be made outside of not just merely the Fedora board, but outside of many, community associations. And that includes maybe including this other entity ... like the FSF itself. ;-> What facilities, forums, etc... can Fedora advocates and/or contributors tap to get this discussion rolling? Especially in a more open, and probably more technical arena, to solve the real considerations that some people will have. Especially since it touches core design and implements in the kernel itself, especially as how all parties address firmware updates, run-time, etc... in drivers today. I mean, even though I used the word "ignorant" -- and strongly feel it applies when I used it (despite the lack of tact in doing so) -- we can't ignore that there seems to be significant (majority?) of people who will feel this way. We need an avenue to better explain the issues -- especially since they go outside Fedora itself. In other words, get a crapload of smarter and more civil people than myself (since I'm the stupidest and most ignorant fool in the world -- let alone a very biased and land-locked/narrow-minded American engineer) together and hash them out. There's got to be a series of both marketing (and possibly even technical solutions) to address this. But as I've pointed out, this is hardly Fedora on its own. -- Bryan "really going to STFU now" Smith -- Bryan J. Smith Professional, Technical Annoyance mailto:b.j.smith@ieee.org http://thebs413.blogspot.com -------------------------------------------------------- Fission Power: An Inconvenient Solution

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Linux.org: The Fedora 7 Year Itch
by Luya Tshimbalanga 20 Jun '07

20 Jun '07

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 " A while back, after publishing a review praising a past version of Fedora Core, I was chided by a reader who objected to my referring to it as 'beta' software. In my mind, it was always understood that the Fedora project was the test bed for Red Hat Enterprise Linux <http://www.linux.org/dist/reviews/fedora7-2.html#>, but with the latest versions, the project has been trying to get away from Fedora's being identified with the word 'beta'. Well, I'm afraid I'm going to have to say that I think Fedora 7 is clearly back to beta." http://www.linux.org/dist/reviews/fedora7.html Food for thought: Any operating system is in beta stage because they will never be complete. Luya -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.7 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFGeYP1a10Jb0NOz+ERAn6uAJ9uf62Mysz5N3AkJcV2azPKBPXnNQCffOCV KqlSxFwAl3CUWRRYRWRRQ7c= =1MO7 -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

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Infinite Freedom???
by Rodrigo Padula 20 Jun '07

20 Jun '07

Comments!!! - FREE SOFTWARE DEFINITION - By Free Software Foundation Free software is a matter of the users' freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, change and improve the software. More precisely, it refers to four kinds of freedom, for the users of the software: * The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0). * The freedom to study how the program works, and adapt it to your needs (freedom 1). Access to the source code is a precondition for this. * The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2). * The freedom to improve the program, and release your improvements to the public, so that the whole community benefits (freedom 3). Access to the source code is a precondition for this. These firmwares below affect us directly, affect our freedom! - ipw2100-firmware-1.3-8.noarch.rpm Redistributable, no modification permitted - ipw2200-firmware-3.0-9.noarch.rpm Redistributable, no modification permitted - iwlwifi-firmware-2.14.3-2.noarch.rpm Redistributable, no modification permitted - zd1211-firmware-1.3-4.fc7.noarch.rpm GPL (hex dump, not source code) A member of the FSF commented, "these firmwares are not free, if the firmwares are not free, the software are not free!". If fedora include non free software, we are not a 100% Free Distribution. Where is the our INFINITE FREEDOM ? What is the position of the project on non free firmwares? ASS: Rodrigo Padula de Oliveira www.projetofedora.org

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Max Spevack's interview on LWN
by Rahul Sundaram 19 Jun '07

19 Jun '07

Hi "In what is surely one of the best interviews of the year, Fedora's Max Spevack talks to LWN about the just released Fedora 7, the upcoming changes in the project's development infrastructure, and the new features in Fedora 8: "We're looking at a far less ambitious Fedora 8. With so much new stuff in Fedora 7, we'd like to give all of our infrastructure changes a chance to settle in and get some polish, and also give some of the contributors who have been going non-stop on Fedora for the last few months a development cycle that is a bit less stressful. But that doesn't mean we don't have some things planned. The best thing for people who are interested in Fedora 8 to do is look at our Wiki, where we will be tracking potential features over the course of the release cycle." Don't miss it" http://distrowatch.com/weekly.php?issue=20070618#news Rahul

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Fedora Repos on DVD
by Karlie Robinson 18 Jun '07

18 Jun '07

I haven't gotten much feed back from the Fedora Community on ways to boost capacity (even just keep up with..) Free Media. What I've come up with here is to offer the Fedora Repos on DVD [1]. Complete Fedora 7 Repository on 3 DVDs. Includes the two Release Repository DVDs and the Updates Repository as of June 15, 2007, Each set we ship from On-Disk.com will include three Free Media Sponsorhsips so I would be grateful if you could digg this [2] ~Karlie [1] http://on-disk.com/product_info.php/products_id/288 [2] http://digg.com/linux_unix/Fedora_7_Repository_on_DVDs

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[MOVED TO DISCOURSE] Fedora Marketing - https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/tag/marketing June 2007