irc-support-sig February 2012

irc-support-sig@lists.fedoraproject.org

6 participants
11 discussions

Plan for tomorrow's irc support sig meeting (2012-02-23)
by Kevin Fenzi 23 Feb '12

23 Feb '12

Here's what I have for an agenda for tomorrow's (2012-02-23) meeting, which will be held at 17:00UTC/12:00 Eastern in #fedora-meeting on irc.freenode.net. Feel free to reply to this with additional topics, or bring them up in the "open floor" section of the meeting. #topic Week in review http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html #topic feedback tickets https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1 #topic Open Floor kevin

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[irc-support-sig] #100: eol fedora questions and questions from non-fedora users
by fedora-badges 20 Feb '12

20 Feb '12

#100: eol fedora questions and questions from non-fedora users ---------------------+------------------------ Reporter: bookwar | Owner: Type: feedback | Status: new Priority: minor | Milestone: Fedora 16 Version: | Severity: Neutral Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | ---------------------+------------------------ This feedback is: {{{ [ ] Positive [ ] Negative [X] Neutral }}} '''My IRC nick is:''' bookwar '''Please briefly describe the interaction that caused you to file this ticket:''' The situation when people are kicked or banned from the support channel, while they ask fedora-related questions in a reasonable and polite way seems to be wrong for me. Once I saw how the person was sent out because he wasn't a Fedora user. He asked if there exists one specific package in Fedora repos. And he said he could not use yum to find it. Instead of giving him link for koji or Fedora package database or direct answer, DiscordianUK said "we support only Fedora users here". Today it was fenrus02, who kicked user for asking rpm and gpg key question because the question was motivated by Fedora Core 3. Sure, I have read the channel FAQ that this is "Fedora End-user Support Channel" and also I am aware of what EOL means and I agree that it is important to persuade people to switch to supported versions. But I think the primary goal of this channel is - to provide help and to educate each other about Fedora-way of doing things. And, thus, any technical question asked properly should be welcomed despite of its origin. Of course it is a completely different situation, when user asks version- specific question. When the issue can not be modelled in the current Fedora release, the EOL rule is indeed justified. And I can only suggest to use "we cannot support all the old versions here" instead of "get out, we don't support you" kind of arguments. '''Please describe what action or positive change could be adopted based on this feedback:''' I don't expect any specific actions. I think you do great job in general. But, please, when you decide what's appropriate and what's not, try to think about question itself, not who asked it and why he did it. And also, when you think that something _is_ inappropriate, don't throw the user away as a piece of garbage. It is the question itself which is inappropriate, not the person who asked it. The person could come later and ask something better next time. And the main idea of my ticket is: People, who don't use current Fedora at this very moment, also have rights to ask general technical Fedora-related questions at the Fedora Support IRC channel. '''Any additional notes or logs:''' These are just two examples I have in mind right now, but I don't want to go into details here. This is the general idea I am speaking about. {{{ (11:54:25 PM) Edulix: can somebody please tell which fedora package provides the binary xsltproc? (11:55:25 PM) bookwar1: libxslt (11:55:32 PM) Edulix: bookwar1: thanks (12:00:35 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: the yum man page talks about "provides" (12:01:12 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: cool (12:01:15 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: So "yum provides */xsltproc" would get you the desired info (12:01:35 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: You can also use rpm to look this up (12:01:46 AM) DiscordianUK: or repoquery (12:02:19 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: You would QUERY the database for the FILE in question, see the man page for more info (12:02:29 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: but I don't have fedora installed so (12:02:35 AM) Edulix: I need something online :P (12:02:37 AM) EvilBob: Sure (12:03:10 AM) EvilBob: No time like NOW to get it installed (12:03:15 AM) randomuser: Edulix, other package managers probably have this feature too (12:04:21 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: I'm creating a package for fedora,opensuse,mandriva,debian,ubuntu,windows,linux,mac... (12:05:21 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: and no I'm not installing all those, I'll let others do it, I'm using opensuse build service to create the package for all the linuxes and then ask people to test it (12:05:40 AM) DiscordianUK: yikes (12:06:37 AM) hicham: Edulix: there are online websites (12:06:42 AM) hicham: that provides these tools (12:06:46 AM) Edulix: hicham: please tell me =) (12:06:52 AM) EvilBob: You can't be bothered to test your own bits... (12:06:55 AM) EvilBob: WOW (12:07:10 AM) DiscordianUK: I'm tiring of this (12:07:58 AM) Edulix: sorry people I didn't ask you why are you helping me, I just asked a question related to fedora, and if you want you can help, I think I'm not trolling or anything ?¿ (12:08:20 AM) DiscordianUK: you aren't running fedora (12:08:43 AM) DiscordianUK: This is f14/f15 support (12:08:47 AM) bookwar1: DiscordianUK: his question was ok, don't fight (12:08:56 AM) EvilBob: well this is a Fedora enduser support channel (12:08:58 AM) DiscordianUK: nor do you intend to (12:09:07 AM) DiscordianUK: precisely (12:09:13 AM) Fieldy: he got his question answered anyway, i'm sure we can relax (12:09:20 AM) Edulix: ok sorry. what fedora channel should I use? (12:09:26 AM) Edulix: Fieldy: sure =) (12:09:33 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: #fedora-devel (12:09:39 AM) hicham: Edulix: http://rpm.pbone.net/ provides that feature (12:09:43 AM) Edulix: EvilBob: thanks (12:09:54 AM) EvilBob: Edulix: Let them help you with your mutant packaging (12:10:11 AM) Edulix: hehe yeah nice term (12:10:11 AM) EvilBob: It's really the best place for that kind of help (12:10:48 AM) EvilBob: Foreign just did not seem right (12:11:24 AM) EvilBob: Good Luck to you (12:11:45 AM) Edulix: thanks you people for the help (12:12:10 AM) Edulix: my next devel question will be asked there for sure =) (12:13:50 AM) bookwar1: it is kind of strange how you create such a big problem from 1-second-questions here, he didn't make any troubles and was polite enough, why not just answer and forget about it ? (12:14:36 AM) DiscordianUK: Do you not get that this is an end-user channel? (12:14:39 AM) Fieldy: and then, ironically, you extend the issue (12:14:43 AM) Fieldy: you = bookwar1 (12:14:51 AM) Fieldy: we had moved on (12:15:03 AM) bookwar1: Fieldy: yes, sorry for that (12:15:49 AM) DiscordianUK: You don't run f14/f15 or want to you ain't coming in (12:16:51 AM) bookwar1: DiscordianUK: this is stupid, and i will try to participate in the next irc-support-meeting to discuss this }}} {{{ (01:54:20 AM) Lantizia: hey how can I import this key directly into rpm in one line?? http://keys.gnupg.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x4F2A6FD2 (01:54:36 AM) Lantizia: I've tried rpm --import "http://keys.gnupg.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0x4F2A6FD2" but I get "import read failed" (01:55:36 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * man rpm (01:55:58 AM) mutk: Lantizia, That URL ends up sending a html file (01:56:17 AM) Lantizia: mutk, exactly - i dunno how to request it without html (01:56:47 AM) mutk: LatThat would be up to the people that provide it I guess (01:57:19 AM) dvanstone: mutk- yes (01:57:21 AM) Lantizia: mutk, do you know of any other popular keyserver that I can use with rpm -import (01:58:02 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * have you tried mit (01:58:13 AM) mutk: Heh keys.gnupg.net port 80 redirects to http://mud.stack.nl (01:58:26 AM) mutk: There goes my afternoon productivity.. (01:59:36 AM) Lantizia: dvanstone, yeah you get html there too (01:59:55 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * man rpm (02:00:14 AM) mutk: It might be easy enough to script something to grab just the key text (02:00:29 AM) Lantizia: no man on here (yet) - trying to set up yum to get back some basic utils (02:01:00 AM) dvanstone: hmm (02:01:28 AM) Lantizia: why is there something in man rpm that is useful? or your just giving your default answer? :D (02:02:39 AM) dvanstone: hmm (02:03:10 AM) hays|afk is now known as hays (02:03:55 AM) mutk: Lantizia, https://fedoraproject.org/keys that shows the op=GET arg in the url.. http://keys.gnupg.net:11371/pks/lookup?search=0x34E166FA&op=get (02:04:14 AM) Lantizia: mutk, as does the link I already provided in channel (02:04:44 AM) mutk: Ah yes in different order .. Ok (02:04:57 AM) fenrus02: why would you use the keyserver instead of the iso you downloaded? (02:05:10 AM) Lantizia: fenrus02, you mean for FC3? :P hehe (02:05:17 AM) Lantizia: i wonder which FC3 rpm had the key in it (02:06:42 AM) fenrus02: @fc3eol (02:06:43 AM) fedbot: Fedora Core 3 is END OF LIFE and no longer supported. See https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora-EOL-Support. It went EOL 6 years, 3 weeks, 3 days, 11 hours, 6 minutes, and 43 seconds ago (02:07:14 AM) Lantizia: fenrus02, you realise your not the first to say this - and you also realise I've known that little nugget of information for years now (02:07:16 AM) Lantizia: give up :P (02:07:36 AM) ffranz-afk is now known as ffranz (02:08:13 AM) fenrus02: Lantizia, then you also realize you are HORRIBLY off topic here. Great. Try #fedora-eol if it still exists. (02:08:53 AM) Lantizia: fenrus02, how? i'm just talking about the rpm utility and it importing gpg keys! (02:09:07 AM) fenrus02: Lantizia, on a dead distro that no longer applies here. (02:09:21 AM) Lantizia: unless fedora stopped using rpm?! oh wait you've not (02:09:26 AM) fenrus02: not all the rpm versions are the same (02:09:58 AM) fenrus02: Lantizia, do you really want to troll and/or be a twit? i suggest you stop now. (02:10:49 AM) Lantizia: fenrus02, your the troller here - attempting to stop helping someone just because they mentioned the hilarity of it being fc3... the issue is if/how rpm can import from a keyserver without need of the file being downloaded first (02:11:46 AM) fenrus02: @kick Lantizia (02:11:47 AM) Lantizia left the room (Kicked by fedbot (fenrus02)). (02:11:52 AM) Lantizia [~lantizia(a)cpc22-stok16-2-0-cust96.1-4.cable.virginmedia.com] entered the room. (02:11:54 AM) Lantizia: very mature (02:12:02 AM) fenrus02: that was your last warning. (02:12:04 AM) mutk: Lantizia, Use gpg tool to import the keys using keys.gnupg.net and then export the key to a file and import with rpm.. The keys.gnupg.net site seems intended for gpg tool and nothing else. (02:12:18 AM) Lantizia: mutk, thought of that too - but no gpg utility only gpg-error (02:12:28 AM) mutk: what ? (02:12:35 AM) Lantizia: see i'm trying to set up yum (need the gpg key for it) to get these basic utils back (02:13:00 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * uname -r (02:13:12 AM) Lantizia: dvanstone, why? (02:13:48 AM) dvanstone: we only provide support for 15 16 here (02:15:12 AM) dvanstone: hmm (02:15:33 AM) Lantizia: not wanting to suffer the "wrath" of fenrus02 again... but has no one stopped to think that some people might want to run fc3 or keep running it for either whimsical reasons or because it's an old server they've virtualised for reference later on if they need it... it's not like I chose fc3! I'm a debian user! and it's not like me asking for help in here is causing the ABSOLUTE FLOOD of fedora 15 and 16 users a probl (02:15:33 AM) Lantizia: em - of which none are talking at present or needing help (02:15:44 AM) Lantizia: this isn't #ubuntu after all (02:16:06 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * it has been suggested -eol (02:16:10 AM) mutk: Lantizia, Use wget to save the file, edit it to clean it up. Import with rpm --import (02:16:24 AM) Lantizia: mutk, yeah was hoping for something more elegant than that (02:16:33 AM) Lantizia: i guess I could use sed on it (02:16:43 AM) mutk: Like a scipt, as I suggested early. Would be easy to do. (02:16:44 AM) dvanstone: Lantizia- * plaese (02:16:46 AM) ryeth: lol i'm downloading fedora now because i will have it in an upcoming class, thought i'd join the room to see what people are talking about (02:16:49 AM) mutk: script* (02:16:56 AM) ryeth: don't need help yet, but sure i probably will be soon (02:17:10 AM) Lantizia: ryeth, then I'll shut up }}} -- Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/100> irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora> Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on irc.freenode.net

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Plan for tomorrow's irc support sig meeting (2012-02-16)
by Kevin Fenzi 16 Feb '12

16 Feb '12

Here's what I have for an agenda for tomorrow's (2012-02-16) meeting, which will be held at 17:00UTC/12:00 Eastern in #fedora-meeting on irc.freenode.net. Feel free to reply to this with additional topics, or bring them up in the "open floor" section of the meeting. #topic Week in review http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html #topic feedback tickets https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1 #topic more formal processes finalize proposal from list kevin

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version 4 voting proposal
by Kevin Fenzi 09 Feb '12

09 Feb '12

a) The sig controls/manages the following channels: #fedora #fedora-social #fedora-unregistered #fedora-ops b) Voting members are everyone who's an op in any of the managed channels. c) New operators/voting members are nominated by filing a ticket and asking to join. Voting members have 7 days to vote, majority vote determines outcome. d) Existing voting members can be removed in roughly the same way as the process in c). Inactive members can be removed if their is a majority vote to do so here. e) In other cases (aside from promoting/removing members), broad consensus should be attempted first and if no clear consensus can be reached a vote can be held on the issue or change. f) when and if other channels wish to join the sig, rules for that can be added. g) The #fedora-ops channel is for coordinating between operators of the other 3 channels. Operators in those 3 channels are welcome to join and idle in #fedora-ops. Other folks can be allowed by nomination from an op and a second from any other operator. Those not in the above 2 groups are welcome to join and discuss an issue or concern with the other 3 channels, but will be asked to then depart after their issue or concern is noted.

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Plan for tomorrow's irc support sig meeting (2012-02-09)
by Kevin Fenzi 09 Feb '12

09 Feb '12

Here's what I have for an agenda for tomorrow's (2012-02-09) meeting, which will be held at 17:00UTC/12:00 Eastern in #fedora-meeting on irc.freenode.net. Feel free to reply to this with additional topics, or bring them up in the "open floor" section of the meeting. #topic Week in review http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html #topic feedback tickets https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1 #topic more formal processes finalize proposal from list kevin

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voting proposal mark 3
by Kevin Fenzi 02 Feb '12

02 Feb '12

a) The sig controls/manages the following channels: #fedora #fedora-social #fedora-unregistered #fedora-ops b) Voting members are everyone who's an op in any of the managed channels. c) New operators/voting members are nominated by any existing member, who (after confirming the nominee is agreeable) files a ticket. Voting members have 7 days to vote, majority vote determines outcome. d) Existing voting members can be removed in roughly the same way as the process in c). Inactive members can be removed if their is a majority vote to do so here. e) In other cases (aside from promoting/removing members), broad consensus should be attempted first and if no clear consensus can be reached a vote can be held on the issue or change. f) when and if other channels wish to join the sig, rules for that can be added. g) The #fedora-ops channel is for coordinating between operators of the other 3 channels. Operators in those 3 channels are welcome to join and idle in #fedora-ops. Other folks can be allowed by nomination from an op and a second from any other operator. Those not in the above 2 groups are welcome to join and discuss an issue or concern with the other 3 channels, but will be asked to then depart after their issue or concern is noted. kevin

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Plan for tomorrow's irc support sig meeting (2012-02-02)
by Kevin Fenzi 02 Feb '12

02 Feb '12

Here's what I have for an agenda for tomorrow's (2012-02-02) meeting, which will be held at 17:00UTC/12:00 Eastern in #fedora-meeting on irc.freenode.net. Feel free to reply to this with additional topics, or bring them up in the "open floor" section of the meeting. #topic Week in review http://fedora.theglaserfamily.org/ircstats/fedora-weekly.html #topic feedback tickets https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/report/1 #topic more formal processes Discuss proposals from list. kevin

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[irc-support-sig] #97: @ affix
by fedora-badges 02 Feb '12

02 Feb '12

#97: @ affix ---------------------+------------------------ Reporter: h4ckm3 | Owner: Type: feedback | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Fedora 16 Version: | Severity: Positive Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | ---------------------+------------------------ Awesome support, complete solution in < 10 seconds +1, kudos, "like" = phenomenon = = reason = = recommendation = -- Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/97> irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora> Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on irc.freenode.net

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[irc-support-sig] #99: Please put the template back the way it was.
by fedora-badges 02 Feb '12

02 Feb '12

#99: Please put the template back the way it was. ---------------------+------------------------ Reporter: dp67 | Owner: Type: feedback | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Fedora 14 Version: | Severity: Neutral Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | ---------------------+------------------------ Please put the template back the way it was with prompts users involved, etc. This phenomenon stuff is kinda confusing for people to relate to. The old blank ticket template was much better at getting the full details of the user experience. de Randy, N3LRX -- Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/99> irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora> Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on irc.freenode.net

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[irc-support-sig] #96: User Zungo The Vampire
by fedora-badges 02 Feb '12

02 Feb '12

#96: User Zungo The Vampire ---------------------+------------------------ Reporter: dp67 | Owner: Type: feedback | Status: new Priority: major | Milestone: Fedora 14 Version: | Severity: Neutral Keywords: | Blocked By: Blocking: | ---------------------+------------------------ = phenomenon = User Zungo refuses to read man pages or links given to him. He enters the channel and demands to be spoon fed. He shouts when he doesn't get attention and makes a general nuisance of himself. = reason = = recommendation = The user should be banned or quieted long term until he learns to do a little research for himself or learns some patience before persistently wearing out his welcome in #fedora. -- Ticket URL: <https://fedorahosted.org/irc-support-sig/ticket/96> irc-support-sig <irc://irc.freenode.net/#fedora> Feedback and tracking of issues for the folks who try and improve support in #fedora on irc.freenode.net

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irc-support-sig February 2012