desktop December 2009

desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org

18 participants
19 discussions

Let's connect on LinkedIn
by Ashwin Avinash Hambarde 10 Dec '09

10 Dec '09

LinkedIn ------------ Discussions, I'd like to add you to my professional network on LinkedIn. - Ashwin Hambarde Confirm that you know Ashwin Hambarde https://www.linkedin.com/e/isd/923605703/8APbapb_/ Every day, millions of professionals like Ashwin Hambarde use LinkedIn to connect with colleagues, find experts, and explore opportunities. ------ (c) 2009, LinkedIn Corporation

1 0

Re: Fedora-desktop-list Digest, Vol 70, Issue 6
by Hristo Petkov 10 Dec '09

10 Dec '09

Hi, absolutely agree about that entering the system as root to do everyday routine works is not exactly reasonable behaviour. Entering the system in this way is something like destroying the firewall of your own castle just because you are the legal owner of the castle and you have the authorities to do that. Well, I am not going even to comment this. Regards, Christo Petkov --- On Wed, 12/9/09, fedora-desktop-list-request(a)redhat.com <fedora-desktop-list-request(a)redhat.com> wrote: From: fedora-desktop-list-request(a)redhat.com <fedora-desktop-list-request(a)redhat.com> Subject: Fedora-desktop-list Digest, Vol 70, Issue 6 To: fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com Date: Wednesday, December 9, 2009, 5:00 PM Send Fedora-desktop-list mailing list submissions to fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to fedora-desktop-list-request(a)redhat.com You can reach the person managing the list at fedora-desktop-list-owner(a)redhat.com When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of Fedora-desktop-list digest..." Today's Topics: 1. Logging into GNOME as root (David Zeuthen) 2. Re: F13 sightings (M?ir?n Duffy) 3. Re: Logging into GNOME as root (Nicu Buculei) 4. Re: F13 sightings (Richard Hughes) 5. HAL removal Feature page (Bastien Nocera) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 15:42:43 -0500 From: David Zeuthen <davidz(a)redhat.com> Subject: Logging into GNOME as root To: fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com Message-ID: <1260304963.1877.7.camel(a)localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hey, Despite our efforts, I still see a lot (or at least, more than I want) of bugs where users log into GNOME as root - typically through stuff like x11vnc or other sysadmin tools that bypasses gdm. Logging into GNOME as root is not really the best of ideas - I won't go into details here - I will just take it as a given that everyone agrees about about this. Anyway, one interesting side-effect is that polkit (now) says root is authorized for anything - so we get interesting bugs like all user-visible filesystems being automounted - normally this wouldn't happen because of our current policy is to only allow automounting of non-system-internal (which currently means only usb, firewire- and sdio-connected devices + optical discs) without interrupting the user to ask for his root password. For example, a typical case is that some person installs Fedora on a machine connected to a SAN and logs into GNOME as root. Now all the, say, 5,000 partitions visible from the SAN is automounted. This is typically not what the person logging in expected - in fact, such behavior may easily cause data-loss as another initiator on the SAN may have mounted one or more devices already. Actually, of course, the real bug GVfs fix is to be less cavalier about automounting - and that fix is already committed to GVfs and submitted as an GVfs update for F-12 (only ever automount usb, firewire, sdio, optical discs). Actually, the astute reader may note that this bugfix will become important for F-13 as we want users created in the default desktop OS to have more privileges cf. the "Roles and Policy" mail that I sent to this list in August 2009. So there's a couple of things here 1. Users will still log into GNOME as root no matter how loudly or how many times they are told not to do that. 2. I'm pretty sure the GVfs automounting bug is not unique here - there may be other things not working as expected. We should probably think about auditing the distro - e.g. we don't want to cause data loss even if people do things the OS is not designed for. 3. We probably need to do an even better job of discouraging people logging in as root - I'm thinking we should show a dialog explaining why this is bad and also show a red background or something. Or maybe refuse to start gnome-session altogether. Currently (rawhide) I don't get any warnings whatsoever if I log into VT1 as root on a machine in run level 3 and type 'startx'. I just get a stock GNOME desktop. Of course we could just say "don't use startx" but that's not how things work (since we still ship startx) and I don't see that changing. I don't regard "remove / neuter startx" as a fight worth fighting either. Thanks, David ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 08 Dec 2009 13:22:07 -0500 From: M?ir?n Duffy <duffy(a)fedoraproject.org> Subject: Re: F13 sightings To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> Message-ID: <1260296527.2139.4.camel(a)localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Richard, On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 09:42 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote: > Yup, I've not yet been deluged with bugreports, so it's looking pretty > stable, even with the "first release" label. If you do find a bug, > there's a mailing list > http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-color-manager-list which > might be interesting to you. Bug reports (and patches if possible) are > most welcome. I was wondering - are the vendor-provided color profiles packageable? Do you know what the legalities are around that? Do they have licenses? Are they considered software? (I was thinking it would be sweet to install the color profiles via package kit rather than scour the web for them) Thanks, ~m ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 09:19:59 +0200 From: Nicu Buculei <nicu_fedora(a)nicubunu.ro> Subject: Re: Logging into GNOME as root To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> Message-ID: <4B1F4F9F.5030309(a)nicubunu.ro> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed On 12/08/2009 10:42 PM, David Zeuthen wrote: > > 3. We probably need to do an even better job of discouraging > people logging in as root - I'm thinking we should show > a dialog explaining why this is bad and also show a red > background or something. Or maybe refuse to start gnome-session > altogether. I think the key here is warning but without getting too annoying. Refusing to start gnome-session will most likely make the person use another DE instead, Xfce or something. I think doing something like Windows XP is safe mode is OK: display a warning dialog after login (maybe go the extra mile and provide a checkbox "I uderstand I am doing, do not show it again") and a text (a watermark?) over the background with "you are running as root". > Currently (rawhide) I don't get any warnings whatsoever if I log > into VT1 as root on a machine in run level 3 and type 'startx'. I > just get a stock GNOME desktop. If someone goes to the steps of switching to run level 3 and running 'startx' by hand, you can assume he has a good understanding of what he's doing and will be able to bypass any blockers. > Of course we could just say "don't use startx" but that's not how > things work (since we still ship startx) and I don't see that > changing. I don't regard "remove / neuter startx" as a fight worth > fighting either. I agree, there are still legit uses for startx. -- nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Wed, 9 Dec 2009 08:51:33 +0000 From: Richard Hughes <hughsient(a)gmail.com> Subject: Re: F13 sightings To: Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop <fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com> Message-ID: <15e53e180912090051m51e1f9bes54e2c2e1967df6d6(a)mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 2009/12/8 Máirín Duffy <duffy(a)fedoraproject.org>: > Hi Richard, > > On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 09:42 +0000, Richard Hughes wrote: >> Yup, I've not yet been deluged with bugreports, so it's looking pretty >> stable, even with the "first release" label. If you do find a bug, >> there's a mailing list >> http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-color-manager-list which >> might be interesting to you. Bug reports (and patches if possible) are >> most welcome. > > I was wondering - are the vendor-provided color profiles packageable? Do > you know what the legalities are around that? Do they have licenses? Are > they considered software? > > (I was thinking it would be sweet to install the color profiles via > package kit rather than scour the web for them) I'm already there: http://blogs.gnome.org/hughsie/2009/12/08/shared-color-profiles/ Richard. ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Wed, 09 Dec 2009 15:40:52 +0000 From: Bastien Nocera <bnocera(a)redhat.com> Subject: HAL removal Feature page To: fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com Message-ID: <1260373252.3311.2017.camel(a)localhost.localdomain> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Heya, I've created this page to track the removal of HAL (hopefully) for F13: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/HalRemoval Could you please check your package and add them to the list if: - they rely on HAL or libhal - they rely on gnome-vfs2 (which still requires HAL, and is deprecated) - they rely on libgnomeui (which requires gnome-vfs2) We're only tracking Desktop spin applications, and applications you'd expect to see installed on GNOME desktops. Cheers ------------------------------ -- Fedora-desktop-list mailing list Fedora-desktop-list(a)redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-desktop-list End of Fedora-desktop-list Digest, Vol 70, Issue 6 **************************************************

1 0

Planning the accessibility stack rebase
by Matthias Clasen 09 Dec '09

09 Dec '09

As some of you may know, the accessibility framework is getting ported from CORBA/ORBit to DBus [1]. The (ambitious) upstream plan is to have this transition completed in time for GNOME 2.30, ie within the F-13 timeframe. This is a big effort, and the accessibility guys need all the help they can get. To help with testing and feedback, I plan to get the new accessibility stack into rawhide in early January. I have done initial packages for the at-spi2 components [2], but they are not quite ready for prime time yet (they don't have the coexistence part entirely sorted out). Some details about the changes that coming: The CORBA-based at-spi package is being replaced by three components: at-spi2-core - protocol definitions and registry daemon at-spi2-atk - the atk-bridge GTK+ module pyatspi - Python bindings for at-spi There is no replacement for the cspi 'C bindings' at the moment. The current users of cspi are being ported to use D-Bus directly (mousetweaks) or replaced (gok being replaced by Caribou [3]). I am not sure about the porting status of dasher... To make the transition phase less painful, there are some efforts to allow the old and new stacks to coexist. The CORBA-based at-spi stuff will install its atk-bridge module and Python bindings somewhere else, and there will be a desktop file that sets the GTK_PATH environment variable and a pyatspi.pth Python module that sets some Python path. These path-tweaks will be triggered by a GConf key, allowing both stacks to be installed at the same time and allowing users and testers to switch back and forth between the stacks. It would be great if people who are interested in accessibility on Fedora could chime in and help with planning this to make the transition as smooth as it can. I'm sure there will be some bumps along the way anyway... Matthias PS Having written all this down, I realize that I should probably turn this into a feature page... [1] http://www.linuxfoundation.org/collaborate/workgroups/accessibility/atk/at-… [2] http://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=544628 http://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=544629 http://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=544630 [3] http://live.gnome.org/Caribou

1 0

Re: Fedora release criteria completely revised
by Adam Williamson 09 Dec '09

09 Dec '09

On Tue, 2009-12-08 at 10:52 +0100, Andy Green wrote: > On 12/07/09 23:55, Somebody in the thread at some point said: > > Hi - > > > these pages, not nice-to-haves. You must be able to commit to the idea > > that, if any criterion on the page is not met, we would slip the release in > > question. > > I think it's great you guys are looking to increase > Quality-with-a-capital-Q. > > ''9 There must be no SELinux 'AVC: denied' messages or abrt crash > notifications on initial boot and subsequent login'' > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_13_Final_Release_Criteria > > It might be wise to specify on what particular set of test machines or > platforms you want to see not abrt stuff from. Because current F12 > kernels kill a 4-core box here and iwlagn gives abrt warnings on this > laptop, but it's still otherwise fine as a released kernel. > > It's not realistic to hold a release until the kernel never crashes on > any platform. Luckily, we have a tailor-made get-out clause for that one (actually I pointed out the same problem as you, and wrote it, shortly before FUDCon): https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Blocker_Bug_FAQ#What_about_hardware_and_loca… I'll turn that criterion into a 'in most cases' one with a link to that FAQ entry, as we did for the other similar criteria. Thanks. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net

1 0

F13 sightings
by Matthias Clasen 09 Dec '09

09 Dec '09

Most of the desktop team is still busy trying to dig out from under the abrt-induced bugslide...or put more positively, focusing on making F12 better. But nevertheless, some new things are happening in F13. Two things I wanted to point out here are a) Richard has landed the first release of his color calibration utility. Install gnome-color-manager to try it out. Over the next few days, we should also get the necessary integration landed, so that color profiles get automatically applied when you log in or plug in a monitor. b) David has built a snapshot of gnome-disk-utility that sports a greatly improved UI and a wealth of new features, from disk-benchmarking over RAID management to SAS expanders. The new gnome-disk-utility depends on the udisks package, which is the new, final name of DeviceKit-disks. Matthias

4 5

Logging into GNOME as root
by David Zeuthen 09 Dec '09

09 Dec '09

Hey, Despite our efforts, I still see a lot (or at least, more than I want) of bugs where users log into GNOME as root - typically through stuff like x11vnc or other sysadmin tools that bypasses gdm. Logging into GNOME as root is not really the best of ideas - I won't go into details here - I will just take it as a given that everyone agrees about about this. Anyway, one interesting side-effect is that polkit (now) says root is authorized for anything - so we get interesting bugs like all user-visible filesystems being automounted - normally this wouldn't happen because of our current policy is to only allow automounting of non-system-internal (which currently means only usb, firewire- and sdio-connected devices + optical discs) without interrupting the user to ask for his root password. For example, a typical case is that some person installs Fedora on a machine connected to a SAN and logs into GNOME as root. Now all the, say, 5,000 partitions visible from the SAN is automounted. This is typically not what the person logging in expected - in fact, such behavior may easily cause data-loss as another initiator on the SAN may have mounted one or more devices already. Actually, of course, the real bug GVfs fix is to be less cavalier about automounting - and that fix is already committed to GVfs and submitted as an GVfs update for F-12 (only ever automount usb, firewire, sdio, optical discs). Actually, the astute reader may note that this bugfix will become important for F-13 as we want users created in the default desktop OS to have more privileges cf. the "Roles and Policy" mail that I sent to this list in August 2009. So there's a couple of things here 1. Users will still log into GNOME as root no matter how loudly or how many times they are told not to do that. 2. I'm pretty sure the GVfs automounting bug is not unique here - there may be other things not working as expected. We should probably think about auditing the distro - e.g. we don't want to cause data loss even if people do things the OS is not designed for. 3. We probably need to do an even better job of discouraging people logging in as root - I'm thinking we should show a dialog explaining why this is bad and also show a red background or something. Or maybe refuse to start gnome-session altogether. Currently (rawhide) I don't get any warnings whatsoever if I log into VT1 as root on a machine in run level 3 and type 'startx'. I just get a stock GNOME desktop. Of course we could just say "don't use startx" but that's not how things work (since we still ship startx) and I don't see that changing. I don't regard "remove / neuter startx" as a fight worth fighting either. Thanks, David

2 1

libopenraw
by Debarshi Ray 06 Dec '09

06 Dec '09

I adopted the orphaned libopenraw package and am planning on updating it to 0.0.8 from 0.0.5. The most visible changes are that it is now LGPLv3+ and not LGPLv2+ and it provides a GdkPixbufLoader for RAW images. I am planning to put the GdkPixbufLoader into its separate subpackage (libopenraw-pixbuf-loader) depending on the base (libopenraw-package). The libopenraw-gnome will only depend on the base package. The GdkPixbufLoader is not perfect but it works if one explicitly creates a GdkPixbufLoader for the appropriate mimetype for the RAW image. Otherwise if a GdkPixbuf is directly created from a RAW file, somehow the TIFF loader tries to open it instead. Some bugs which might be of interest: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/25464 https://bugs.freedesktop.org/25368 I am putting it in Rawhide for the moment. Not sure whether to put into F11 or F12 because GThumb and the GNOME thumbnailer are using dcraw and ufraw respectively to handle RAW and I am unsure as to whether this will interfere in weird ways or not. Happy hacking, Debarshi -- One reason that life is complex is that it has a real part and an imaginary part. -- Andrew Koenig

1 0

RE: USB card
by Hristo Petkov 01 Dec '09

01 Dec '09

Hi, In my view 1 GB is better for it is compatible with more of the older devices. Regards, Christo Petkov

1 0

getting gnome 2.29 into rawhide
by Matthias Clasen 01 Dec '09

01 Dec '09

Hey gnome package owners, I normally take care of mass-pushing gnome devel snapshots into rawhide, but this time around, I want to refrain from doing that for now, since I am still on F-12 and focusing on bug-fixes there. So, if everybody can take care of their own packages this time around, that would be great. Alternatively, maybe someone wants to volunteer to do a mass-build for 2.29.3 ? Matthias

2 2

2024

2023

2022

2021

2020

2019

2018

2017

2016

2015

2014

2013

2012

2011

2010

2009

2008

2007

2006

2005

2004

2003

desktop December 2009