desktop January 2021

desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org

23 participants
19 discussions

Release criteria proposal: networking requirements
by Adam Williamson 01 Mar '22

01 Mar '22

Hi folks! So at this week's blocker review meeting, the fact that we don't have explicit networking requirements in the release criteria really started to bite us. In the past we have squeezed networking-related issues in under other criteria, but for some issues that's really difficult, notably VPN issues. So, we agreed we should draft some explicit networking criteria. This turns out to be a big area and quite hard to cover (who'd've thought!), but here is at least a first draft for us to start from. My proposal would be to add this to the Basic criteria. I have left out some wikitext stuff from the proposal for clarity; I'd add it back in on actually applying the proposed changes. It's just formatting stuff, nothing that'd change the meaning. Anyone have thoughts, complaints, alternative approaches, supplements? Thanks! === Network requirements === Each of these requirements apply to both installer and installed system environments. For any given installer environment, the 'default network configuration tools' are considered to be those the installer documents as supported ways to configure networking (e.g. for anaconda-based environments, configuration via kernel command line options, a kickstart, or interactively in anaconda itself are included). ==== Basic networking ==== It must be possible to establish both IPv4 and IPv6 network connections using DHCP and static addressing. The default network configuration tools for the console and for release-blocking desktops must work well enough to allow typical network connection configuration operations without major workarounds. Standard network functions such as address resolution and connections with common protocols such as ping, HTTP and ssh must work as expected. Footnote titled "Supported hardware": Supported network hardware is hardware for which the Fedora kernel includes drivers and, where necessary, for which a firmware package is available. If support for a commonly-used piece or type of network hardware that would usually be present is omitted, that may constitute a violation of this criterion, after consideration of the [[Blocker_Bug_FAQ|hardware-dependent- issues|normal factors for hardware-dependent issues]]. Similarly, violations of this criteria that are hardware or configuration dependent are, as usual, subject to consideration of those factors when determining whether they are release-blocking ==== VPN connections ==== Using the default network configuration tools for the console and for release-blocking desktops, it must be possible to establish a working connection to common OpenVPN, openconnect-supported and vpnc-supported VNC servers with typical configurations. Footnote title "Supported servers and configurations": As there are many different VPN server applications and configurations, blocker reviewers must use their best judgment in determining whether violations of this criterion are likely to be encountered commonly enough to block a release, and if so, at which milestone. As a general principle, the more people are likely to use affected servers and the less complicated the configuration required to hit the bug, the more likely it is to be a blocker. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net

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Fedora Workstation WG minutes, 2021-01-26
by Chris Murphy 28 Jan '21

28 Jan '21

============================================== #fedora-meeting-2: Workstation WG (2021-01-26) ============================================== Meeting started by cmurf at 08:18:43 UTC. The full logs are available at https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2021-01-28/workstation.2… . Meeting summary --------------- * Rollcall (cmurf, 08:19:14) * present: mcatanzaro, otaylor, Neil, cmurf, aday, kalev, tpopela (cmurf, 08:19:16) * regrets: langdon, mclasen (cmurf, 08:19:18) * present guests: zbigniew (cmurf, 08:19:20) * Approval of 19 Jan minutes: (cmurf, 08:19:22) * LINK: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2021-01-21/workstation.2… (cmurf, 08:19:24) * AGREED: no objections (cmurf, 08:19:26) * Announcements, follow-ups, status reports (cmurf, 08:19:28) * ACTION: Michael to follow-up with the proposal to create a nm-connection-editor-core package (cmurf, 08:19:38) * Updated activities overview design for GNOME 40 / F34 (cmurf, 08:19:40) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/210 (cmurf, 08:19:42) * The bulk of the changes are being rebased this week, ahead of merge into master (cmurf, 08:19:48) * 3 weeks until UI freeze upstream - that gives us 2 weeks to polish. Help would be appreciated with this. (cmurf, 08:19:50) * Review some older open issues (cmurf, 08:19:52) * Replace Rhythmbox with GNOME Music in default install (cmurf, 08:19:54) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/33 (cmurf, 08:19:56) * ACTION: Allan to write call for help blog post (cmurf, 08:20:02) * Redesign Anaconda installation progress page (cmurf, 08:20:04) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/48 (cmurf, 08:20:06) * Fix placement of Welcome to Fedora application in live boot (cmurf, 08:20:10) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/79 (cmurf, 08:20:12) * ACTION: Michael to investigate how gnome-tour centers its window (cmurf, 08:20:18) * ACTION: Allan to create a ticket for installer session proposal for further discussion (cmurf, 08:20:20) * 2m shutdown timer is too long (cmurf, 08:20:22) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/163 (cmurf, 08:20:24) * The user manager should propagate info to the system manager so it can be shown in the shutdown menu. (cmurf, 08:20:34) * AGREED: We need action on systemd on getting the ID of user services. (cmurf, 08:20:52) * AGREED: Action to debug PackageKit is needed. (cmurf, 08:20:54) * ACTION: Zbigniew to reduce the timeout for F34. (cmurf, 08:20:56) * Open Floor (cmurf, 08:20:58) Meeting ended at 08:21:03 UTC. Action Items ------------ * Michael to follow-up with the proposal to create a nm-connection-editor-core package * Allan to write call for help blog post * Michael to investigate how gnome-tour centers its window * Allan to create a ticket for installer session proposal for further discussion * Zbigniew to reduce the timeout for F34. Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * Michael to follow-up with the proposal to create a nm-connection-editor-core package * Allan to write call for help blog post * Michael to investigate how gnome-tour centers its window * Allan to create a ticket for installer session proposal for further discussion * Zbigniew to reduce the timeout for F34. People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * cmurf (57) * zodbot (7) * mcatanzaro (0) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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Thoughts on shell redesign
by Matthew Miller 27 Jan '21

27 Jan '21

Overall, like it and think this is a good direction. It didn't really take me long to adjust to. I do think we need to communicate this a _lot_, because change is hard and there exist a lot of negativity around GNOME changes in general (even when such negativity is really ironic). Let's make sure to get positive messaging out there. Personally, I think we should take this a step further and make an always-on dock a configurable preference. But one thing at a time. :) Anyway, here's my feedback after running with this for a week: * The latest mutter update in the copr broke my ability to log in my existing account (getting the sad face "can't do anything"). Haven't had time to really diagnose yet. That makes me a little worried that others might experience something similar. For non-techie users this basically says "your machine is dead and now you have to reinstall". * Super-L does not lock the screen. Actually that shortcut just plain doesn't work no matter what I set it to. * I really find overview-zoom and unzoom animations to be too slow. Turning them off is, however, too jarring. Hopefully Impatience will be available as an extension again, but I think we should consider making the default a little faster and perhaps proving options in Tweaks. (I know this isn't new, just missing it from not having that extension.) * That said, when using the scroll wheel, the switch workspace animation feels too _fast_. It's easy to get lost if I have more than two workspaces. I know, it's all subjective, but that's my impression. * Speaking of extensions, obviously the redesign is going to impact a lot of them. Is the popularity sort on https://extensions.gnome.org/ meaningful? We should consider explicitly testing the top 20 or so and commenting on compatibility. * I don't have a strong opinion about horizontal vs. vertical workspace alignment, even after using it for a week. Either is fine with me. However I had previously used always-zoom-workspaces, and there's not really a logical place for that in the new design. The net result of this is that I forget what's on my other workspaces and open up more new windows and workspaces in general throughout the day. From reading other feedback, I think many people have a strong opinion about this even though I don't. One factor might be multi-monitor; if I have two monitors side by side, the side-scrolling workspaces are confusing and vertical makes more sense. Also, on a 16:9 panel vertical space is precious, and especially so on 13" or 14" notebooks -- making a side dock more logical. I know we don't like having a lot of options, but I wonder if having a 90° rotation mode for this might be a worthwhile option, where the dash (and "top" bar) are on the sides and workspaces go up and down. * Okay, this is long-standing rather than new, but it seems like this redesign is an opportunity to address. I find the word "Activies" puzzling. It's always on screen in a very prominent place, and isn't very descriptive. I know it comes from the idea of activity-centered design, but that actually makes things worse because that's not what the UX really ended up being. And, it's been a while, but in the past I've encountered people who thought the whole desktop environment or even OS was called "Activities". The menu on the top right doesn't have any words; maybe this could also bceome an icon? I get the rationale for not making it a brand icon, so I'm not asking for that specifically, just... _an_ icon. (Sadly, the most logical thing for it would actually be what's printed on the Overview key. But that's not really a possibility!) * Launching something from the dash using the mouse requires a LOT of mouse travel: up to the top left corner, then down to the middle. Then, it seems that new windows prefer to appear back up in the top left, so it's back up to there again. Maybe: 1. the botton edge of the screen could also be "hot" and bring up the overview, and 2. new windows could bias more towards appearing in the center of the screen even if that makes more overlap. * Actually point #2 might be important enough that it's worth calling out directly. The top left of the screen is rarely where I want a non-maximized window to appear. * The borders around the window positions in the overview make for even less real-estate in that view, which is unfortunate. I don't have a great suggestion, except maybe thinner margins. - Bonus thought though: although it's not apparent onscreen in normal use like the Endless logo is, (which is something I'd still like), maybe we could make those margins Fedora Blue instead of gray, to give a little bit of distro-specific theming? I love that GNOME's main UI uses neutral colors, but since this won't distract the eye while you're actually working in an application, maybe it's something we could do. (Actually, what I'd love for my own personal configuration is a black background screen and the stars and gas clouds from the F33 wallpaper in the overview margins... or, for a default, I can see a design with a pattern which complements the default wallpaper, rather than just a plain color. Maybe too busy, though. Just thinking out loud!) * If I click the "show applications" icon, and then start to search, the transition from the app panel with workspaces at the top to the search is kind of jarring. I think this would be better if the workspaces were _below_ the application icons rather than above. * A dash-to-dock feature I miss: I want the terminal icon to launch a new window rather than focusing an existing one. I know that's not new in this design but it'd be nice to not have to use this extension. I might be able to train myself to middle-click, but I'd rather swap the behavior. * The first time I dragged a window to a new workspace, I was confused as to where it went. I think it's probably the right behavior, just a surprise. Maybe an animation can help here? * If I have a single window on the second workspace and drag it to the third, that second workspace (naturally) becomes empty. If I then immediately launch a new application or new window without leaving the overview, that new app lands on that workspace and everything is fine. If, however, I don't launch a new app and return from the overview, the empty workspace is collapsed, which in pratice means that the window I dragged to the right is now back on the workspace in front of me, and there are still just two workspaces. There's not even an animation making this smooth, but even if it were, it really feels like strange behavior. Consider not collapsing single empty workspaces between occupied ones. -- Matthew Miller <mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader

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Anyone know offhand why rdma-core is on the Workstation live image?
by Matthew Miller 26 Jan '21

26 Jan '21

This only happened to come up because of a multilib glitch, but I'm wondering why rdma-core is on the default Workstation image. It seems unlikely that any of our users have Infiniband on their desktops. ----- Forwarded message from Jonathan Billings <billings(a)negate.org> ----- > Date: Tue, 26 Jan 2021 14:58:14 -0500 > From: Jonathan Billings <billings(a)negate.org> > To: users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > Subject: Re: rdma-core-32.0-1.fc33.i686 has inferior architecture > Archived-At: <https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org…> > > On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 10:33:20AM -0500, Matthew Miller wrote: > > > > On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 06:40:10PM -0800, ToddAndMargo via users wrote: > > > Hi Matthew, > > > > > > I just did a > > > # dnf remove rdma-core-32.0-1.fc33.x86_64 > > > and now `dnf upgrade` is happy. > > > > > > FWIW the root cause is here: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1919864 > > ... the package was accidentally built x86_64 only, which is why DNF > > couldn't find the matching i686 package. But this is only needed for > > special-purpose cluster networking hardware, and I'm pretty sure 0% of > > desktop users even need this package. I'm not sure what has pulled it in for > > so many people. > > Looking at the /var/log/anaconda files, it appears that rdma-core was > included in the LiveCD image I used to load the fedora workstation > that has it installed. I used the default Fedora Workstation > (Fedora-Workstation-Live-x86_64-33-1.2.iso). If I mount the rootfs > inside the squashfs on the ISO, I can run: > > # mkdir /mnt/livecd /mnt/squashfs /mnt/rootfs > # mount /slow/images/Fedora-Workstation-Live-x86_64-33-1.2.iso /mnt/livecd > # mount /mnt/livecd/LiveOS/squashfs.img /mnt/squashfs > # mount /mnt/squashfs/LiveOS/rootfs.img /mnt/rootfs > # chroot /mnt/rootfs/ rpm -q rdma-core > rdma-core-31.0-1.fc33.x86_64 > > Might want to remove that from the build if it shouldn't be > installed. > > -- > Jonathan Billings <billings(a)negate.org> > _______________________________________________ > users mailing list -- users(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > To unsubscribe send an email to users-leave(a)lists.fedoraproject.org > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org ----- End forwarded message ----- -- Matthew Miller mattdm(a)mattdm.org <http://mattdm.org/> Fedora Project Leader mattdm(a)fedoraproject.org <http://fedoraproject.org/>

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Self-Introduction
by Suhaas Joshi 25 Jan '21

25 Jan '21

Hello everyone! I am Suhaas, a first-year undergrad from India, eyeing this year's GSOC. I am good at C++ and data structures and find C manageable. I can contribute up to 7 hours per week until the end of February, after which I can spend 17-18 hours working here per week. I was told to email the subprojects I am interested in. I like the workstation since it seems incredibly elegant and would love to be a part of it. I don't have any experience contributing to open source or creating an elaborate project before, and my programming journey started just a few months ago. Therefore before the application period commences, I would love to be able to finish contributing or helping around a bit to increase my familiarity with the codebase. It would be much appreciated if a potential mentor or anyone else could guide me through the initial stage or give me pointers of where to begin! :) Thanks Suhaas

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2021-01-26 Meeting Agenda (secretary: Langdon)
by Michael Catanzaro 25 Jan '21

25 Jan '21

Workstation Working Group Meeting Date and Time: 2021-01-19 9:30 AM EST 14:30 UTC Location: https://bluejeans.com/395383051/ https://www.bluejeans.com/numbers Approval of 19 Jan minutes: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2021-01-21/workstation.2… Announcements, follow-ups, status reports Updated activities overview design for GNOME 40 / F34 https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/210 2m shutdown timer is too long https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/163 Review some older open issues Open Floor

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[Fedocal] Reminder meeting : Workstation WG
by catanzaro＠fedoraproject.org 25 Jan '21

25 Jan '21

Dear all, You are kindly invited to the meeting: Workstation WG on 2021-01-26 from 09:30:00 to 10:30:00 US/Eastern At https://bluejeans.com/395383051/ The meeting will be about: Regular meeting for the Workstation Working Group Current Topics: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issues?status=Open&tags=meeting Etherpad: https://etherpad.gnome.org/p/fedora-workstation-wg More information available at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation Source: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/meeting/9884/

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Fedora Workstation WG minutes, 2021-01-19
by Chris Murphy 20 Jan '21

20 Jan '21

============================================== #fedora-meeting-2: Workstation WG (2021-01-19) ============================================== Meeting started by cmurf at 03:16:13 UTC. The full logs are available at https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2021-01-21/workstation.2… . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll Call (cmurf, 03:17:10) * present: cmurf, aday, mclasen, mcatanzaro, otaylor, tpopela, petersen, kalev, ngompa (cmurf, 03:17:12) * regrets: langdon (cmurf, 03:17:14) * present guests: miroslav suchy, salimma, msrb (Michal Srb) (cmurf, 03:17:16) * Approval of 12 Jan minutes (cmurf, 03:17:18) * LINK: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2021-01-14/workstation.2… (cmurf, 03:17:20) * AGREED: Approved - no objections (cmurf, 03:17:22) * Announcements, follow-ups, status reports (cmurf, 03:17:24) * none (cmurf, 03:17:26) * Updated activities overview design for GNOME 40 / F34 (cmurf, 03:17:28) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/210 (cmurf, 03:17:30) * LINK: https://gitlab.gnome.org/Teams/Design/os-mockups/-/issues/80 (cmurf, 03:17:40) * ACTION: mclasen to write a change proposal (cmurf, 03:17:52) * Give ABRT some (cmurf, 03:17:54) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/130 (cmurf, 03:17:56) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/130#comment-705518 (cmurf, 03:18:02) * LINK: https://github.com/abrt/abrt/issues/1399 (cmurf, 03:18:20) * LINK: https://github.com/abrt/abrt/issues/1402 (cmurf, 03:18:24) * Open Floor (cmurf, 03:18:30) * meeting adjourned (cmurf, 03:18:32) Meeting ended at 03:18:40 UTC. Action Items ------------ * mclasen to write a change proposal Action Items, by person ----------------------- * **UNASSIGNED** * mclasen to write a change proposal People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * cmurf (46) * zodbot (7) * mcatanzaro (0) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot

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2021-01-19 Meeting Agenda (secretary: Owen)
by Michael Catanzaro 18 Jan '21

18 Jan '21

Workstation Working Group Meeting Date and Time: 2021-01-19 9:30 AM EST 14:30 UTC Location: https://bluejeans.com/395383051/ https://www.bluejeans.com/numbers Approval of 12 Jan minutes: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting-2/2021-01-14/workstation.2… Announcements, follow-ups, status reports Give ABRT some ❤ https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/130 Updated activities overview design for GNOME 40 / F34 https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issue/210 Open Floor

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[Fedocal] Reminder meeting : Workstation WG
by catanzaro＠fedoraproject.org 18 Jan '21

18 Jan '21

Dear all, You are kindly invited to the meeting: Workstation WG on 2021-01-19 from 09:30:00 to 10:30:00 US/Eastern At https://bluejeans.com/395383051/ The meeting will be about: Regular meeting for the Workstation Working Group Current Topics: https://pagure.io/fedora-workstation/issues?status=Open&tags=meeting Etherpad: https://etherpad.gnome.org/p/fedora-workstation-wg More information available at: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation Source: https://apps.fedoraproject.org/calendar/meeting/9884/

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