desktop July 2016

desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org

27 participants
17 discussions

[wayland] Applications are unable to grab input
by Christian Stadelmann 20 Apr '17

20 Apr '17

One main difference between x11 and wayland is that in x11 all applications receive all input whereas in wayland the compositor receives input and decides which application may receive it. This causes a major issue with application which need input grab for running or showing a nested desktop. This affects e.g. GUI virtual machines (SPICE clients), RDP clients, VNC clients, nested kwin/gnome-shell/whatever. See also: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1285770 . Games might also be affected, I don't know. I'm posting this here to raise attention because 1. to fix this we need another protocol (extension) 2. this issue can't be fixed in a single application, it needs the whole stack (wayland library, compositors, affected applications) to change Compared to the other bugs in "WaylandRelated" lists [1] [2], these bugs need architecture design, not just fixing bugs in one package. I don't know whether this mailing list is the right place to discuss an issue like this. If you know better, please tell me. [1] https://bugzilla.redhat.com/showdependencytree.cgi?id=1277927&hide_resolved… [2] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/showdependencytree.cgi?id=757579&hide_resolved=1

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coredumpctl integration for F25
by Michael Catanzaro 14 Oct '16

14 Oct '16

Hi, Currently we have coredumpctl installed by default, but it doesn't work because core dumps are consumed by ABRT instead. I'd like to get coredumpctl working out-of-the-box. We can do this by changing our systemd presets [1] to disable abrt-ccpp.service. ABRT will continue to function thanks to the ABRT developers' work on coredumpctl integration via abrt-vmcore.service. There is a somewhat- reduced feature set, but I've been running this for several months happily and I haven't noticed any issues; my crashes are being reported to FAF, and I can manually report to Bugzilla. See [2] for details. This might be slightly controversial for two reasons. First, the big change here is that core dumps will appear in the magical and super- awesome coredumpctl tool in addition to ABRT, but would no longer be created in the cwd when ulimit is set appropriately (we would need to feature that in the release notes). This aligns us with upstream systemd behavior, but diverges from Debian and Ubuntu, which still create the old-style coredumps in the cwd. Second, my understanding is that the ABRT developers prefer to improve abrt-cli and tell people to use that rather than coredumpctl. But as coredumpctl is very mature (nicer) and cross-distro so it gets many more contributors, I definitely prefer to instruct people to use coredumpctl instead for C/C++ crashes. We could totally do this change for F24 as well as it should be just a one-line change, but in the spirit of beta freeze I figure it's probably best left for F25. Michael [1] https://pagure.io/fedora-release/blob/master/f/90-default.preset [2] https://github.com/abrt/abrt/issues/1108

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Another round of default app discussion
by Michael Catanzaro 25 Sep '16

25 Sep '16

Hi, Recently the Workstation working group agreed to match the GNOME apps we install by default in Fedora with upstream GNOME's core apps. We will by default sync our default apps to upstream's, and make exceptions only for exceptional reasons if when proposed on this list. This adds a bit more cement to our status as the best GNOME distribution with minimal divergence from upstream. I worked upstream with designers and release team to move many desirable apps into core, to better match what we're currently shipping in Fedora. I also created a gnome-incubator metamodule upstream, which is where we'll put apps that we want to be core apps by design, but which we recognize are not yet ready to be installed by default in distributions. Currently that is home to bijiben, gnome-boxes, gnome- calendar, gnome-dictionary, gnome-music, and gnome-photos. Here is how we currently diverge from the new upstream recommendations: Apps missing from Fedora: epiphany, gnome-logs Extra apps in Fedora: bijiben, evolution, gnome-boxes, shotwell, rhythmbox I see little value in discussing Epiphany again right now. Let's make an exception for that. I have added Logs in Fedora just now, as I expect that will be uncontroversial and I don't see any value in diverging from upstream here. Bijiben is just not very good yet, and it's not under active development. There's no good reason for us to diverge from upstream here, and I expect it will be uncontroversial, so I've dropped it. I guess Evolution might be controversial; I use it religiously, and many of you probably do too. But the user interface is complex and confusing; users should not be exposed to this by default, barring drastic UI changes that are outside the scope of the Evolution project. Evolution is a great mail client for power users, but I'm confident that the average user will be better off with webmail services; folks who want a desktop client can simply install one, after all. We intend to replace it with GNOME Mail eventually, but nobody has started developing it yet. I propose we drop Evolution, but I have not done so yet, pending further discussion. Boxes has too many serious bugs right now, so it cannot go into gnome- core yet, but we intend it to eventually. Since this is a significant application, I have not yet removed it from our default install, pending further discussion. My main concern is that it would look odd for us to remove such a significant app from the default install, then bring it back in a year or two. On the other hand, users won't notice a thing unless they make a habit of reinstalling Fedora, and it's not good to include apps we can't fully recommend. It's not clear to me what choice is best here. I propose we make temporary exceptions to keep Shotwell and Rhythmbox, until their intended replacements, Photos and Music, move into upstream's GNOME core moduleset. That will very likely happen for Photos for F25. I'm less certain about Music. Michael

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GNOME Photos as default app for F25
by Michael Catanzaro 22 Aug '16

22 Aug '16

Hi, We've discussed replacing Shotwell many times in the past. I believe consensus was that gThumb would be better, but we would instead wait for GNOME Photos to mature a bit more so we don't change the default photo app so many times. Photos is pretty clearly more polished than Shotwell at this point, and I think we're ready to make the switch. Of course it is still under active development, but let's not make perfect the enemy of the good. If you care about this change, please either +1 or object. Note that Image Viewer (eog) would still be the default app for opening images, as it already is. That's not changing at this time. Michael P.S. As I've sort of become the "default app guy," I'll mention that I have no further changes proposed for F25. The only other change for F25 (made a few months ago) was to drop Vinagre in favor of GNOME Boxes.

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Consider tuned-gui as an important element for "advanced" users on the Fedora Workstation
by Bastián Díaz 02 Aug '16

02 Aug '16

Tuned is an excellent tool to monitoring system and apply profile-based configurations. This tool is very powerful and its use is relegated to the servers systems, however, it can be put to good use for fedora Workstation for users seeking advanced settings via a user interface (tuned-gtk). For example, a good use of tuned in the Workstation is the advanced power management, even with the possibility of using custom profiles through powerTOP (laptop users). My experience says that in most cases I have used systems tuned for that purpose, there has been an increase in battery life (is not the only use case). Part of my proposal considers: • Improve the design of tuned-gtk (like gnome-tweak-tool design) • Add categories to target profiles to facilitate user choice (Eg. Workstation, Cloud and Server) • Add/modify new default tuned profiles for desktop/laptop use, similar to those available in the "tuned-profiles-compat" package • Add settings to create a powerTOP profile or add it from a report (html file) All these options would expect for an average user or an advanced user to enhance the options available for their device. I intend to present it in the list and not directly to the authors, is that this tool can greatly improve the user experience for the target audience of fedora workstation. For example, the web is full of requests "to improve power consumption in Linux" and there are several responses that lead to programs that do not have a user interface and are complicated to use. Tuned-gtk would be used for the range of user need only choose a predefined profile to those who want to create their own custom profiles graphically. When I talk about advanced users, I'm making the parallel with the application gnome-tweak-tool, but the big problem here is that the user needs root permissions to use the application, although a change in this area would help the whole family derived from fedora, as RHEL or CentOS. Thanks

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Please test GNOME Maps updates
by Michael Catanzaro 31 Jul '16

31 Jul '16

Hi, As you might be aware, one of the applications that we install by default in Workstation, GNOME Maps, has been totally broken for the past three weeks. Thanks to collaboration between upstream and tile provider Mapbox, updates are now available to address this problem: F24: https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2016-b98e3831e7 F23: https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2016-bc76866e34 Karma appreciated, *especially* for the F23 update as I don't want it to sit in testing all week. Due to the severity of the issue, it doesn't matter if there are any regressions so long as you can see maps, so I've set the karma requirement to 1. Michael

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Workstation WG meeting plan?
by Paul W. Frields 28 Jul '16

28 Jul '16

Due to Flock next week in Kraków, I won't be able to chair the scheduled Workstation WG meeting on 2016-Aug-03 at 10am US-EDT (1400 UTC). We have at least two options: * Someone else chairs, volunteers welcome * Cancel * This might be better, if lots of other WG members are also at Flock Thoughts? -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com

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GConf migration to GSettings for pulseaudio and paprefs
by Sylvain Baubeau 27 Jul '16

27 Jul '16

Hello list, I have been working on a task related to this feature https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/GConfRemoval, which is marked as 90% done. I created a pulseaudio plugin called module-gsettings that mimics the behaviour of the module-gconf module. I already submitted the patch to the pulseaudio mailing list. The maintainer seems to be ok with adding it, with some comments that I tried to address. It adds a gschema for pulseaudio modules. The main user of the old module-gconf is 'paprefs' which is unmaintained but is probably still used. I therefore created a patch for paprefs to move from gconf to gsettings. I did it so that a .convert file can be used to convert existing gconf configuration to gsettings. I could not find any way to submit my patch to paprefs though :-/ The pulseaudio patch is available here : https://github.com/lebauce/pulseaudio/tree/module-gsettings The paprefs patch is available here : https://github.com/lebauce/paprefs/tree/master Any comment, review, advice, gsettings knowledge, test would be more than welcome ! And if you know how to submit patch to paprefs, please let me know otherwise, I'll ping the last persons that commited to it. Thank you, Sylvain

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Request for PRD changes proposals
by Jan Kurik 27 Jul '16

27 Jul '16

Hi, I would like to request proposals from the Workstation Working Group to amend PRD [1] to reflect the latest state of the Fedora Workstation Product. These proposals will be discussed on Flock 2016 in Krakow and finally reviewed by Fedora Council [2]. Details of the PRD workshop on Flock will be shared once we will have a meeting room reservation confirmed. For more details you can check the PRD review ticket from the last year [3] and schedule for this annual review [4]. [1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Workstation_PRD [2] https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/63 [3] https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/32 [4] https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-25/f-25-council.html Thanks and Best Regards, Jan -- Jan Kuřík Platform & Fedora Program Manager Red Hat Czech s.r.o., Purkynova 99/71, 612 45 Brno, Czech Republic

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Workstation WG meeting recap 2016-Jul-20
by Paul W. Frields 20 Jul '16

20 Jul '16

Minutes: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2016-07-20/workstation.201… Minutes (text): https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2016-07-20/workstation.201… Log: https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2016-07-20/workstation.201… * * * =============================== #fedora-meeting: Workstation WG =============================== Meeting started by stickster at 14:00:13 UTC. The full logs are available at https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2016-07-20/workstation.201… . Meeting summary --------------- * Roll call (stickster, 14:00:22) * Update on third party software policy discussion (stickster, 14:10:42) * LINK: https://fedorahosted.org/council/ticket/57 (stickster, 14:10:59) * ACTION: stickster make a screenshot tour or video to show what happens in Rawhide (stickster, 14:21:27) * Installer story for new Workstation bits (stickster, 14:23:41) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fork/walters/workstation-ostree-config/branch/f24-continu… (mclasen___, 14:30:31) * Jenkins job is setup to build atomic-based workstation edition (stickster, 14:31:43) * LINK: https://ci.centos.org/job/atomic-fedora-ws/ (stickster, 14:31:49) * Maps tile outage (stickster, 14:38:45) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1356484 (stickster, 14:39:03) * ACTION: defer this until next meeting while we watch GNOME upstream, which is already actively addressing the issue and we hope will have a short term solution that can go into F23/24 (stickster, 14:57:38) * All other business (open floor) (stickster, 14:57:45) * PRD changes -- will discuss on list and be able to report back by Flock (stickster, 14:59:18) * gnome-software update for F23 should go out soon (stickster, 15:00:03) * LINK: https://bodhi.fedoraproject.org/updates/FEDORA-2016-fad11727bf (stickster, 15:00:05) * ACTION: mcatanzaro revive F25 default apps on list (basically, shotwell -> gnome-photos) (stickster, 15:00:46) Meeting ended at 15:01:16 UTC. Action Items ------------ * stickster make a screenshot tour or video to show what happens in Rawhide * defer this until next meeting while we watch GNOME upstream, which is already actively addressing the issue and we hope will have a short term solution that can go into F23/24 * mcatanzaro revive F25 default apps on list (basically, shotwell -> gnome-photos) Action Items, by person ----------------------- * mcatanzaro * mcatanzaro revive F25 default apps on list (basically, shotwell -> gnome-photos) * stickster * stickster make a screenshot tour or video to show what happens in Rawhide * **UNASSIGNED** * defer this until next meeting while we watch GNOME upstream, which is already actively addressing the issue and we hope will have a short term solution that can go into F23/24 People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * stickster (74) * mcatanzaro (26) * mclasen___ (24) * andreasn1 (19) * zodbot (14) * otaylor (11) * jkurik (4) * cschalle (3) * cprofitt (2) * Southern_Gentlem (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot -- Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/ gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717 http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/ The open source story continues to grow: http://opensource.com

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desktop July 2016