Hi,
We've discussed replacing Shotwell many times in the past. I believe consensus was that gThumb would be better, but we would instead wait for GNOME Photos to mature a bit more so we don't change the default photo app so many times. Photos is pretty clearly more polished than Shotwell at this point, and I think we're ready to make the switch. Of course it is still under active development, but let's not make perfect the enemy of the good. If you care about this change, please either +1 or object.
Note that Image Viewer (eog) would still be the default app for opening images, as it already is. That's not changing at this time.
Michael
P.S. As I've sort of become the "default app guy," I'll mention that I have no further changes proposed for F25. The only other change for F25 (made a few months ago) was to drop Vinagre in favor of GNOME Boxes.
Hi,
On 07/20/2016 11:05 AM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
We've discussed replacing Shotwell many times in the past. I believe consensus was that gThumb would be better, but we would instead wait for GNOME Photos to mature a bit more so we don't change the default photo app so many times. Photos is pretty clearly more polished than Shotwell at this point, and I think we're ready to make the switch. Of course it is still under active development, but let's not make perfect the enemy of the good. If you care about this change, please either +1 or object.
Just some comments from an active heavy user of Fedora media applications including photography applications:
Shotwell for a long time was the only GNOMEish application that I could use to reliably and safely import photos from my dSLRs. The key feature is the ability to import the folders using a specific layout on disk based on timestamps in each photo's EXIF data. This means I can merge photos from multiple cameras (2 dSLRs and multiple smart phones and extended family members' cameras & FB downloads) into a single filesystem on our family's media center and in our cloud backup (so we can view photos based on date / family event rather than by whatever device happened to take the picture.)
Shotwell's ability to do the import is not perfect - frequently if you use a large memory card in your camera (say ~32 GB) it would freeze/hang during import and occasionally crash. Because of the instability, I sought out another app for importing recently; I discovered gthumb now does it - beautifully. It's UI fits in with the rest of GNOME even better than Shotwell, and it is more robust than Shotwell in that it doesn't appear to freeze or crash during large imports.
It does not appear GNOME Photos has a method of importing photos off of a camera. So taking Shotwell out for GNOME Photos potentially means removing the functionality of photo import off of cameras.
I am not going to tell you whether or not that is the right thing to do for Workstation, and I am certainly capable of dnf installing gthumb for my own needs. Swapping out Shotwell *will* remove a current out-of-the-box Workstation functionality, however, and I think when making the decision you should be aware of this.
Sorry for the long-windedness (hopefully illustrates the full user context,) and I hope this helps in some way.
~m
Adding Máirín's point, it looks like the bug related for importing pictures from camera is still unfixed according to the roadmap https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Photos/Roadmap Listed tasks need to be completed first before making the decision to adopt Gnome Photos as default.
Only issue with gthumb is the lack of non-destructive editing feature found on similar application.
Luya
On 20/07/16 09:31 AM, Máirín Duffy wrote:
Hi,
On 07/20/2016 11:05 AM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
We've discussed replacing Shotwell many times in the past. I believe consensus was that gThumb would be better, but we would instead wait for GNOME Photos to mature a bit more so we don't change the default photo app so many times. Photos is pretty clearly more polished than Shotwell at this point, and I think we're ready to make the switch. Of course it is still under active development, but let's not make perfect the enemy of the good. If you care about this change, please either +1 or object.
Just some comments from an active heavy user of Fedora media applications including photography applications:
Shotwell for a long time was the only GNOMEish application that I could use to reliably and safely import photos from my dSLRs. The key feature is the ability to import the folders using a specific layout on disk based on timestamps in each photo's EXIF data. This means I can merge photos from multiple cameras (2 dSLRs and multiple smart phones and extended family members' cameras & FB downloads) into a single filesystem on our family's media center and in our cloud backup (so we can view photos based on date / family event rather than by whatever device happened to take the picture.)
Shotwell's ability to do the import is not perfect - frequently if you use a large memory card in your camera (say ~32 GB) it would freeze/hang during import and occasionally crash. Because of the instability, I sought out another app for importing recently; I discovered gthumb now does it - beautifully. It's UI fits in with the rest of GNOME even better than Shotwell, and it is more robust than Shotwell in that it doesn't appear to freeze or crash during large imports.
It does not appear GNOME Photos has a method of importing photos off of a camera. So taking Shotwell out for GNOME Photos potentially means removing the functionality of photo import off of cameras.
I am not going to tell you whether or not that is the right thing to do for Workstation, and I am certainly capable of dnf installing gthumb for my own needs. Swapping out Shotwell *will* remove a current out-of-the-box Workstation functionality, however, and I think when making the decision you should be aware of this.
Sorry for the long-windedness (hopefully illustrates the full user context,) and I hope this helps in some way.
~m
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Hi,
I've added Photos to GNOME core (upstream), because I think we've reached the point where Photos is a much better app than Shotwell for the vast majority of users. But it still cannot import photos from cameras and SD cards, as Mairin and Luya have pointed out. I want to avoid having an endless list of blocking feature requests, but I do understand that import from cameras is an important use case for the default photo application. So I propose we either (a) make the switch now, following upstream, or (b) agree now to do it in the future once this final feature is finished, that way we don't have to keep discussing it every six months. I looked at the roadmap [1] and all the other features look like nice-to-haves rather than essentials, especially considering the dramatic quality difference we already have between these two apps.
On Wed, 2016-07-20 at 10:05 -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
P.S. As I've sort of become the "default app guy," I'll mention that I have no further changes proposed for F25. The only other change for F25 (made a few months ago) was to drop Vinagre in favor of GNOME Boxes.
Hm, this didn't last.
We agreed at GUADEC to add Calendar to GNOME core, so as per our previous agreement to match upstream unless we decide otherwise, I'm planning to add it as a default app in F25. It's kinda redundant with Evolution, but Evolution is not a core app and Calendar is, so that's Evolution's problem IMO.
I also noticed that seahorse is not in core, but we still have in as a default app. seahorse has been extremely broken for several years; much of its GPG-related functionality doesn't work at all, and there are UI bugs all over the place, as Federico demonstrated during his GUADEC presentation [2]. Accordingly, I'd like to get rid of it, at least until a rewrite/redesign has been completed. I've moved it to the "incubator" group upstream, where we keep apps that are just not good enough to have by default. The alternative is to keep it around until we have a replacement ready, but work on the redesign has stalled, and I don't really want to do that unless someone is actively working on it.
Michael
[1] https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Photos/Roadmap [2] https://media.ccc.de/v/21-how_docould_we_store_secrets_in_gnome
On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 07:02:02AM -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
discussing it every six months. I looked at the roadmap [1] and all the other features look like nice-to-haves rather than essentials, especially considering the dramatic quality difference we already have between these two apps.
With my "Linux photograhy user" hat on not the FPL fedora :) I reviewed the roadmap and agree.
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