On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Stephen Gallagher sgallagh@redhat.com wrote:
On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 20:45 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Fri, Oct 3, 2014 at 8:42 PM, Stephen Gallagher sgallagh@redhat.com wrote:
On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 14:21 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote:
On Fri, 2014-10-03 at 09:00 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 20:26 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote:
On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 16:10 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 10:25 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote: > > On Tue, 2014-09-30 at 14:12 -0400, Josh Boyer wrote: > > > > I don't really like that people that do upgrades get a worse > > > > experience because of that pointless change but well ... > > > > > > There's nothing that says a user doing an upgrade wants to upgrade to > > > Workstation. There's also nothing that is going to magically upgrade > > > them to Workstation anyway. Also, they don't have this in F20 so > > > their experience is not worse, it's the same. > > > > I think fedup needs to to require specification of the product when > > upgrading from Fedora 20: > > [...] > > I've been trying to work with the packaging folks and the fedup > maintainer, but right now it's looking infeasible to do a > non-productized (F20) upgrade to a Productized F21. People who want > Workstation are going to have to do a clean install. People upgrading > from F20 will end up with non-productized F21 (equivalent > to a Spin).
In the Fedora Workstation PRD we have:
Robust Upgrades
Upgrading the system multiple times through the upgrade process should give a result that is the same as an original install of Fedora Workstation. Upgrade should be a safe and process that never leaves the system needing manual intervention.
This refers, of course, to upgrades between versions of Fedora Workstation, but I think we're sending a strong message in the wrong direction if we make it require a complex manual procedure to upgrade from F20 to F21 Workstation.
Well, the procedure isn't necessarily *complex*, but it *is* necessarily manual. Please see my email on devel@, I talked about the actual technical issues that are getting in the way here (and the fact that we're dangerously close to Beta for trying to land entirely new code in fedup...)
There's three separate things here:
- We need to make it almost impossible to *accidentally* upgrade to non-productized F21 and think you are getting the Workstation experience.
I think this is the wrong way of thinking about this. As noted elsewhere in this or the other thread, we *cannot* make the assumption that someone upgrading from F20 actually *wants* it to be Fedora Workstation, even if they happen to have the GNOME desktop installed.
There are plenty of people who are using a system installed from one of the spins as well as people who are using Fedora as a server (possibly headless) and having the upgrade process result in Workstation except when *explicitly* chosen is not acceptable.
- We need to provide a feasible way to upgrade from F20 Fedora 21 Workstation.
I would certainly be in favor of having this. The definition of "feasible" is very complicated, though. This can be solved, but it's debatable if it can be solved sensibly in the remaining time. (See the explanations in the other thread).
Why from the chatlog you attached elsewhere one would conclude that the "yum install fedora-relase-foo && fedup" would work. Or what did I miss?
You missed the part where that approach takes away the no-manual-steps part of it. If we go that path, then you MUST explicitly do 'yum install fedora-release-[standard|workstation|cloud|server]' before you can run fedup.
If people feel that this is an acceptable approach, we can investigate it, but the general sense I was getting is that "fedup --network 21" should work on its own with no other interaction.
Well "fedup --network 21" could simply check if any of those packages is present and if not print a message. Shouldn't this be that big of a change.