On Thu, 2014-10-02 at 20:26 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote:
On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 16:10 -0400, Stephen Gallagher wrote:
On Wed, 2014-10-01 at 10:25 -0400, Owen Taylor wrote:
On Tue, 2014-09-30 at 14:12 -0400, Josh Boyer wrote:
I don't really like that people that do upgrades get a worse experience because of that pointless change but well ...
There's nothing that says a user doing an upgrade wants to upgrade to Workstation. There's also nothing that is going to magically upgrade them to Workstation anyway. Also, they don't have this in F20 so their experience is not worse, it's the same.
I think fedup needs to to require specification of the product when upgrading from Fedora 20: [...]
I've been trying to work with the packaging folks and the fedup maintainer, but right now it's looking infeasible to do a non-productized (F20) upgrade to a Productized F21. People who want Workstation are going to have to do a clean install. People upgrading from F20 will end up with non-productized F21 (equivalent to a Spin).
In the Fedora Workstation PRD we have:
Robust Upgrades
Upgrading the system multiple times through the upgrade process should give a result that is the same as an original install of Fedora Workstation. Upgrade should be a safe and process that never leaves the system needing manual intervention.
This refers, of course, to upgrades between versions of Fedora Workstation, but I think we're sending a strong message in the wrong direction if we make it require a complex manual procedure to upgrade from F20 to F21 Workstation.
Well, the procedure isn't necessarily *complex*, but it *is* necessarily manual. Please see my email on devel@, I talked about the actual technical issues that are getting in the way here (and the fact that we're dangerously close to Beta for trying to land entirely new code in fedup...)
If the initial version of Fedora Workstation was a huge technical change involving different packaging systems, different filesystems, and so forth, I could see that we might want to require a fresh install a single time with a promise that things would be better in the future - but this really isn't the case.
Well, to a lesser extent, this *is* a new packaging system; we're asking for the capability to install a different set of packages based on which Product you *might* want to upgrade to.
I need to follow up on the original devel thread about this.
Basically, the fedup maintainers don't want to spend effort on a one-time upgrade feature, particularly with so little time before release.
If https://github.com/wgwoods/fedup is the right upstream repository for fedup, it doesn't look like it has gotten much work this cycle - presumably because priorities are on different projects. How can the Fedora Workstation WG lend a hand?
We can have another conversation with Will. I'm attaching a log of the last exchange so that we don't have to repeat all of it again.