In anticipation of the corresponding upstream change, I have just built a change to the GConf schemas in libgnome to not show icons in menus and buttons by default anymore.
This change may take a little while to get used to, but I hope that most people will come around and appreciate the less cluttered desktop.
Feedback appreciated.
Matthias
On Wed, 2009-07-22 at 17:56 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
In anticipation of the corresponding upstream change, I have just built a change to the GConf schemas in libgnome to not show icons in menus and buttons by default anymore.
This change may take a little while to get used to, but I hope that most people will come around and appreciate the less cluttered desktop.
Feedback appreciated.
I bet the first question people will ask is:
"But how do I turn them back on? I LOVE THE MENU ICONS SO MUCH!"
So probably this will need a release note that explains how to turn it back on if desired. I'm guessing that's:
System->Preferences->Appearance, Interface tab, "Show icons in menus"
Is that right?
-w
On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 10:53 -0400, Will Woods wrote:
On Wed, 2009-07-22 at 17:56 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
In anticipation of the corresponding upstream change, I have just built a change to the GConf schemas in libgnome to not show icons in menus and buttons by default anymore.
This change may take a little while to get used to, but I hope that most people will come around and appreciate the less cluttered desktop.
Feedback appreciated.
I bet the first question people will ask is:
"But how do I turn them back on? I LOVE THE MENU ICONS SO MUCH!"
So probably this will need a release note that explains how to turn it back on if desired. I'm guessing that's:
System->Preferences->Appearance, Interface tab, "Show icons in menus"
Is that right?
Yes, that is right.
There is no checkbox for the button icons right now, but there are gconf keys for both:
/desktop/gnome/interface/buttons_have_icons /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons
I will see if I can get that into the release notes.
On 07/23/2009 08:45 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 10:53 -0400, Will Woods wrote:
System->Preferences->Appearance, Interface tab, "Show icons in menus"
Is that right?
Yes, that is right.
There is no checkbox for the button icons right now, but there are gconf keys for both:
/desktop/gnome/interface/buttons_have_icons /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons
I will see if I can get that into the release notes.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes if you want to add some notes. If you don't, I will add it up later.
Rahul
On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 21:27 +0530, Rahul Sundaram wrote:
On 07/23/2009 08:45 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Thu, 2009-07-23 at 10:53 -0400, Will Woods wrote:
System->Preferences->Appearance, Interface tab, "Show icons in menus"
Is that right?
Yes, that is right.
There is no checkbox for the button icons right now, but there are gconf keys for both:
/desktop/gnome/interface/buttons_have_icons /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons
I will see if I can get that into the release notes.
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Fedora_12_Alpha_release_notes if you want to add some notes. If you don't, I will add it up later.
Thanks Rahul,
I've added a short note.
On 07/22/2009 09:56 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
In anticipation of the corresponding upstream change, I have just built a change to the GConf schemas in libgnome to not show icons in menus and buttons by default anymore.
This change may take a little while to get used to, but I hope that most people will come around and appreciate the less cluttered desktop.
Feedback appreciated
I expected this change to be more a to shock to the end user than it turned out to be.The feed back I received was that having icons in "Places" felt out of place to the rest of the menu. The only solutions to that problem when asked was to either bring back all the icons or move either applications in "Places" or place "Places" in whole under "Applications" or "System" so the path to it would be Application --> Places or System --> Places.
Hope this feedback is somewhat helpful
JBG
On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 14:17 +0000, "Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" wrote:
I expected this change to be more a to shock to the end user than it turned out to be.The feed back I received was that having icons in "Places" felt out of place to the rest of the menu. The only solutions to that problem when asked was to either bring back all the icons or move either applications in "Places" or place "Places" in whole under "Applications" or "System" so the path to it would be Application --> Places or System --> Places.
I'm trying out the new default gconf settings in F11 (not Rawhide) and - as expected - I don't have any icons in the File/Edit/... menus for each window. Yay, menus are much snappier.
On the downside, there's also no icons in Applications / Places / System. So does Rawhide GNOME handle them differently? I can't imagine that losing icons in the panel menu (or having them only in Places as Johann describes) is the intended behavior.
-w
On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 12:49 -0400, Will Woods wrote:
On the downside, there's also no icons in Applications / Places / System. So does Rawhide GNOME handle them differently? I can't imagine that losing icons in the panel menu (or having them only in Places as Johann describes) is the intended behavior.
To answer my own question, here's the original bug report: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557469
Comments there indicate that the Applications menu is still intended to have icons. The proposed guideline in comment #1 says (in part):
"A menu item should have an icon only if it represents a dynamic object such as an application, file, device, or user ..."
So yeah, that will probably be fixed once someone updates gnome-panel (or whatever component that menu comes from).
-w
On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 14:09 -0400, Will Woods wrote:
On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 12:49 -0400, Will Woods wrote:
On the downside, there's also no icons in Applications / Places / System. So does Rawhide GNOME handle them differently? I can't imagine that losing icons in the panel menu (or having them only in Places as Johann describes) is the intended behavior.
To answer my own question, here's the original bug report: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557469
Comments there indicate that the Applications menu is still intended to have icons. The proposed guideline in comment #1 says (in part):
"A menu item should have an icon only if it represents a dynamic object such as an application, file, device, or user ..."
So yeah, that will probably be fixed once someone updates gnome-panel (or whatever component that menu comes from).
The panel in rawhide has the intended behaviour. You get icons for applications, files, devices, bookmarks, but not for categories, etc.
The one potentially confusing thing here is that the panel menu icons react to the settings at all (ie category icons come back if you turn menu icons on). Maybe we want to stop them from doing that.
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 8:49 PM, Matthias Clasenmclasen@redhat.com wrote:
On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 14:09 -0400, Will Woods wrote:
On Fri, 2009-07-24 at 12:49 -0400, Will Woods wrote:
On the downside, there's also no icons in Applications / Places / System. So does Rawhide GNOME handle them differently? I can't imagine that losing icons in the panel menu (or having them only in Places as Johann describes) is the intended behavior.
To answer my own question, here's the original bug report: http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=557469
Comments there indicate that the Applications menu is still intended to have icons. The proposed guideline in comment #1 says (in part):
"A menu item should have an icon only if it represents a dynamic object such as an application, file, device, or user ..."
So yeah, that will probably be fixed once someone updates gnome-panel (or whatever component that menu comes from).
The panel in rawhide has the intended behaviour. You get icons for applications, files, devices, bookmarks, but not for categories, etc.
The one potentially confusing thing here is that the panel menu icons react to the settings at all (ie category icons come back if you turn menu icons on). Maybe we want to stop them from doing that.
Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are used to the "icon mode".
On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 12:04 +0200, drago01 wrote:
Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are used to the "icon mode".
+1 as that was a WHOLE lot different and actually not as good looking. I hope maybe some fine tuning to the menu (maybe spaceing, or fonts or something) will be done after removal?
On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 12:04 +0200, drago01 wrote:
Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are used to the "icon mode".
Can you be more specific here ? What is 'it' ? And what looks like crap ? Are you talking about the panel menu or menus in general ?
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 3:17 AM, Matthias Clasenmclasen@redhat.com wrote:
On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 12:04 +0200, drago01 wrote:
Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are used to the "icon mode".
Can you be more specific here ? What is 'it' ? And what looks like crap ? Are you talking about the panel menu or menus in general ?
"It" = panel menu.
Well I was talking about the whole desktop experience, having no menu/button icons somehow fells "odd" (ie. for me it looks like crap), but this is a pure subjective thing, because I am used to it for years. (windows use no menu/button icons except for the "start menu" and people are not complaining).
On Sun, 2009-07-26 at 09:52 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 3:17 AM, Matthias Clasenmclasen@redhat.com wrote:
On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 12:04 +0200, drago01 wrote:
Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are used to the "icon mode".
Can you be more specific here ? What is 'it' ? And what looks like crap ? Are you talking about the panel menu or menus in general ?
"It" = panel menu.
The panel menu is supposed to have icons in it, regardless of the state of /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons.
So if you're not getting icons in your panel menu, it's because your gnome-panel package is too old to know this. F11 won't behave properly here. Ignore it, upgrade to Rawhide, or wait for F12.
-w
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Will Woodswwoods@redhat.com wrote:
On Sun, 2009-07-26 at 09:52 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 3:17 AM, Matthias Clasenmclasen@redhat.com wrote:
On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 12:04 +0200, drago01 wrote:
Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are used to the "icon mode".
Can you be more specific here ? What is 'it' ? And what looks like crap ? Are you talking about the panel menu or menus in general ?
"It" = panel menu.
The panel menu is supposed to have icons in it, regardless of the state of /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons.
So if you're not getting icons in your panel menu, it's because your gnome-panel package is too old to know this. F11 won't behave properly here. Ignore it, upgrade to Rawhide, or wait for F12.
My comment was directed at "The one potentially confusing thing here is that the panel menu icons react to the settings at all (ie category icons come back if you turn menu icons on). Maybe we want to stop them from doing that."
which means "make it always use no category icons"
On Mon, 2009-07-27 at 17:55 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Will Woodswwoods@redhat.com wrote:
On Sun, 2009-07-26 at 09:52 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 3:17 AM, Matthias Clasenmclasen@redhat.com wrote:
On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 12:04 +0200, drago01 wrote:
Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are used to the "icon mode".
Can you be more specific here ? What is 'it' ? And what looks like crap ? Are you talking about the panel menu or menus in general ?
"It" = panel menu.
The panel menu is supposed to have icons in it, regardless of the state of /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons.
So if you're not getting icons in your panel menu, it's because your gnome-panel package is too old to know this. F11 won't behave properly here. Ignore it, upgrade to Rawhide, or wait for F12.
My comment was directed at "The one potentially confusing thing here is that the panel menu icons react to the settings at all (ie category icons come back if you turn menu icons on). Maybe we want to stop them from doing that."
which means "make it always use no category icons"
Yes, this is what I was considering.
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 6:34 PM, Matthias Clasenmclasen@redhat.com wrote:
On Mon, 2009-07-27 at 17:55 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Will Woodswwoods@redhat.com wrote:
On Sun, 2009-07-26 at 09:52 +0200, drago01 wrote:
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 3:17 AM, Matthias Clasenmclasen@redhat.com wrote:
On Sat, 2009-07-25 at 12:04 +0200, drago01 wrote:
Well, would it be possible to add a separate gconf key for it? I tested the "no icons mode" but well it looks like crap if you are used to the "icon mode".
Can you be more specific here ? What is 'it' ? And what looks like crap ? Are you talking about the panel menu or menus in general ?
"It" = panel menu.
The panel menu is supposed to have icons in it, regardless of the state of /desktop/gnome/interface/menus_have_icons.
So if you're not getting icons in your panel menu, it's because your gnome-panel package is too old to know this. F11 won't behave properly here. Ignore it, upgrade to Rawhide, or wait for F12.
My comment was directed at "The one potentially confusing thing here is that the panel menu icons react to the settings at all (ie category icons come back if you turn menu icons on). Maybe we want to stop them from doing that."
which means "make it always use no category icons"
Yes, this is what I was considering.
Yes and my suggestion was a separate key for this to make it less confusing,but still preserve the option to have icons for those who want them.
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 7:55 PM, drago01 drago01@gmail.com wrote:
Yes and my suggestion was a separate key for this to make it less confusing,but still preserve the option to have icons for those who want them.
But please leave the icons on by default. We are on the desktop list, right? You know, colours and icons and stuff :)
As another person asked, what is the rationale for this change?
On Fri, 2009-09-18 at 21:41 +0300, Marius Andreiana wrote:
As another person asked, what is the rationale for this change?
There are too many icons. That makes it much harder for artists to provide complete, consistent themes. It also gives the desktop a cluttered, overloaded appearance.
On Wed, Jul 22, 2009 at 05:56:23PM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
In anticipation of the corresponding upstream change, I have just built a change to the GConf schemas in libgnome to not show icons in menus and buttons by default anymore.
This change may take a little while to get used to, but I hope that most people will come around and appreciate the less cluttered desktop.
Feedback appreciated.
Where can I find the rationale for this change?
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
-
"Jóhann B. Guðmundsson" -
Chuck Anderson -
drago01 -
Marius Andreiana -
Matthias Clasen -
Mike Chambers -
Rahul Sundaram -
Will Woods