The desktop team has recently started to think about what things we want to focus on beyond F7, and what we want to improve in the Fedora 8 timeframe.
While there are no very detailed specs and commitments yet, I have put together some preliminary information in the wiki, and I'd like to share it with the interested public on this mailing list. Feel free to comment and discuss. There will be some more feature descriptions in the near future, and the ones I have begun will hopefully be fleshed out more fully by their respective owners.
Matthias
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePulseaudio http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePolicyKit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBigboard
On Mon, 2007-05-07 at 13:28 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
The desktop team has recently started to think about what things we want to focus on beyond F7, and what we want to improve in the Fedora 8 timeframe.
While there are no very detailed specs and commitments yet, I have put together some preliminary information in the wiki, and I'd like to share it with the interested public on this mailing list. Feel free to comment and discuss. There will be some more feature descriptions in the near future, and the ones I have begun will hopefully be fleshed out more fully by their respective owners.
Matthias
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePulseaudio http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePolicyKit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBigboard
Matthias, is PolicyKit the right place to request a feature such as poking firewall holes for avahi (Rhythmbox sharing, etc.)? I seem to remember that was one of the targets for this package. Of course, I may be misremembering that detail...
On Mon, 2007-05-07 at 15:55 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Mon, 2007-05-07 at 13:28 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
The desktop team has recently started to think about what things we want to focus on beyond F7, and what we want to improve in the Fedora 8 timeframe.
While there are no very detailed specs and commitments yet, I have put together some preliminary information in the wiki, and I'd like to share it with the interested public on this mailing list. Feel free to comment and discuss. There will be some more feature descriptions in the near future, and the ones I have begun will hopefully be fleshed out more fully by their respective owners.
Matthias
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePulseaudio http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePolicyKit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBigboard
Matthias, is PolicyKit the right place to request a feature such as poking firewall holes for avahi (Rhythmbox sharing, etc.)? I seem to remember that was one of the targets for this package. Of course, I may be misremembering that detail...
It's not the right place to _implement_ the poking of holes, but PolicyKit would hopefully be used by the thing that actually poked the holes to determine if you are authorized to poke holes. It's more of a "decider" than an actor. The actor asks policy kit if some operation is authorized, and PolicyKit says "yes/no".
Dan
On Mon, 2007-05-07 at 17:03 -0400, Dan Williams wrote:
Matthias, is PolicyKit the right place to request a feature such as poking firewall holes for avahi (Rhythmbox sharing, etc.)? I seem to remember that was one of the targets for this package. Of course, I may be misremembering that detail...
It's not the right place to _implement_ the poking of holes, but PolicyKit would hopefully be used by the thing that actually poked the holes to determine if you are authorized to poke holes. It's more of a "decider" than an actor. The actor asks policy kit if some operation is authorized, and PolicyKit says "yes/no".
Yeah, that's a pretty accurate description.
So I actually happen to have a bunch of high-level notes about the whole thing that I will post soon. Just need to sort them out so they sort of make sense. Until then, there's already code in git (with 100% gtk-doc coverage!) that should give a hint or two about how the whole thing works..
http://gitweb.freedesktop.org/?p=PolicyKit.git
Also, I hope to land this pretty early in the Fedora 8 cycle because I've already added support for this thing in HAL and gnome-mount. Anyway, more on this later...
David
On Mon, 2007-05-07 at 15:55 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
Matthias, is PolicyKit the right place to request a feature such as poking firewall holes for avahi (Rhythmbox sharing, etc.)? I seem to remember that was one of the targets for this package. Of course, I may be misremembering that detail...
Yes, that's another use case where PolicyKit will be used.
Hi,
some things I would love to see improved:
Network related
- vpn and dialup integration for network manager - a gui for pairing with bluetooth devices - a gui for setting up bluetooth and usb dialup devices (mobile phones) for connecting to the internet - a gui for setting up 3g networks (umts, ...) for internet access. This could be an extension to system-config-network
Booting
- faster boot when not connected to a network; many services are starting really slow, if the network is down - faster boot times at all
Security
- disabling root (like ubuntu), thus forcing the user to work as a non-root user - some kind of backup tool, for the whole system or the users profile and data - Integration of clamav in Evolution and Thunderbird - support for encryption of user data ( /home/...)
Configuration
- Ubuntu has two software installation tools. One shows the complete repository, the other is intented for endusers. Listed are only applications, with a rating, how well it integrates into the used gui, ... I think this is really cool. Many users are overwhelmed by that many choices Pirut offers. Perhaps this could simply by a button in Pirut to suppress libs or - GUI for adding third party repositories - GUI for managing raid configurations, Anacondo can to this, but only at installation time. If you add a hdd after installation, you have to use mdadm manually.
GUI
- enable Gnomes NFS browsing (network places), in F7 only smb-browsing seems to be enabled. - enable more than three mouse-buttons - enhancing the gui for extended keyboards - a GUI for laptop-related things: laptop-mode, configuration suspend2ram or suspend2disk, power-management, ...
cu romal
Matthias Clasen schrieb:
The desktop team has recently started to think about what things we want to focus on beyond F7, and what we want to improve in the Fedora 8 timeframe.
While there are no very detailed specs and commitments yet, I have put together some preliminary information in the wiki, and I'd like to share it with the interested public on this mailing list. Feel free to comment and discuss. There will be some more feature descriptions in the near future, and the ones I have begun will hopefully be fleshed out more fully by their respective owners.
Matthias
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePulseaudio http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePolicyKit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBigboard
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 08:44 +0200, Robert M. Albrecht wrote:
Hi,
some things I would love to see improved:
Thanks for jumping right into this discussion. Your contribution is very appreciated. Even cooler than a long list of things you would like to see improved would be a shorter list of things you can imagine improving yourself. With the new merged and more open Fedora, there is ample opportunity for people outside of the desktop team to contribute.
Network related
- vpn and dialup integration for network manager
We are going to post our plans for NM work for Fedora 8 shortly.
- a gui for pairing with bluetooth devices
- a gui for setting up bluetooth and usb dialup devices (mobile phones)
for connecting to the internet
- a gui for setting up 3g networks (umts, ...) for internet access. This
could be an extension to system-config-network
Bastian already send a pointer to his Bluetooth writeup. A lot of this depends on how well the SoC project for Bluetooth goes.
- faster boot when not connected to a network; many services are
starting really slow, if the network is down
- faster boot times at all
We are also going to post our plans for startup modernization in a bit.
Security
- disabling root (like ubuntu), thus forcing the user to work as a
non-root user
This is a really easy fix, just toggling a gdm setting. We might do this by default for Fedora 8.
- some kind of backup tool, for the whole system or the users profile
and data
- Integration of clamav in Evolution and Thunderbird
- support for encryption of user data ( /home/...)
Some of these things should probably be discussed in the wider context of fedora-devel, since they are not really desktop specific.
Configuration
- Ubuntu has two software installation tools. One shows the complete
repository, the other is intented for endusers. Listed are only applications, with a rating, how well it integrates into the used gui, ... I think this is really cool. Many users are overwhelmed by that many choices Pirut offers. Perhaps this could simply by a button in Pirut to suppress libs or
- GUI for adding third party repositories
- GUI for managing raid configurations, Anacondo can to this, but only
at installation time. If you add a hdd after installation, you have to use mdadm manually.
These sound all like good things. For improved software installation, I hope that bigboards application browser can make a difference there.
GUI
- enable Gnomes NFS browsing (network places), in F7 only smb-browsing
seems to be enabled.
- enable more than three mouse-buttons
- enhancing the gui for extended keyboards
- a GUI for laptop-related things: laptop-mode, configuration
suspend2ram or suspend2disk, power-management, ...
Can you be more specific what you are missing here ?
- How do you envision the user interface to use a fourth mouse button (apart from special applications that may need the extra button) ? - What keyboard configuration are you missing (other than keyboard layouts that actually match your keyboard) ?
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 08:47 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 08:44 +0200, Robert M. Albrecht wrote:
Hi,
some things I would love to see improved:
Thanks for jumping right into this discussion. Your contribution is very appreciated. Even cooler than a long list of things you would like to see improved would be a shorter list of things you can imagine improving yourself. With the new merged and more open Fedora, there is ample opportunity for people outside of the desktop team to contribute.
Network related
- vpn and dialup integration for network manager
We are going to post our plans for NM work for Fedora 8 shortly.
- a gui for pairing with bluetooth devices
- a gui for setting up bluetooth and usb dialup devices (mobile phones)
for connecting to the internet
- a gui for setting up 3g networks (umts, ...) for internet access. This
could be an extension to system-config-network
Bastian already send a pointer to his Bluetooth writeup. A lot of this depends on how well the SoC project for Bluetooth goes.
There have been patches for BT PAN posted to gnome bugzilla for NetworkManager that recognize the device and talk to it, we're working through the specifics at this time. The BT guys hadn't understood how BT support in NM should be structured, so there was some lag during the education period.
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=432774
Dan
- faster boot when not connected to a network; many services are
starting really slow, if the network is down
- faster boot times at all
We are also going to post our plans for startup modernization in a bit.
Security
- disabling root (like ubuntu), thus forcing the user to work as a
non-root user
This is a really easy fix, just toggling a gdm setting. We might do this by default for Fedora 8.
- some kind of backup tool, for the whole system or the users profile
and data
- Integration of clamav in Evolution and Thunderbird
- support for encryption of user data ( /home/...)
Some of these things should probably be discussed in the wider context of fedora-devel, since they are not really desktop specific.
Configuration
- Ubuntu has two software installation tools. One shows the complete
repository, the other is intented for endusers. Listed are only applications, with a rating, how well it integrates into the used gui, ... I think this is really cool. Many users are overwhelmed by that many choices Pirut offers. Perhaps this could simply by a button in Pirut to suppress libs or
- GUI for adding third party repositories
- GUI for managing raid configurations, Anacondo can to this, but only
at installation time. If you add a hdd after installation, you have to use mdadm manually.
These sound all like good things. For improved software installation, I hope that bigboards application browser can make a difference there.
GUI
- enable Gnomes NFS browsing (network places), in F7 only smb-browsing
seems to be enabled.
- enable more than three mouse-buttons
- enhancing the gui for extended keyboards
- a GUI for laptop-related things: laptop-mode, configuration
suspend2ram or suspend2disk, power-management, ...
Can you be more specific what you are missing here ?
- How do you envision the user interface to use a fourth mouse button (apart from special applications that may need the extra button) ?
- What keyboard configuration are you missing (other than keyboard layouts that actually match your keyboard) ?
Hi,
- enable Gnomes NFS browsing (network places), in F7 only smb-browsing
seems to be enabled.
Gnomes user manual shows screenshots and descriptions of browsing the network places "Windows computers" and "Unix computers".
I only see Windows computers. I tried to fiddle around in gnome-vfs config-files, ... but I never got nfs-browsing to work.
Fedora- and gnome-users mailinglists, could help either. Perhaps it`s broken in gnome, perhaps some module is missing, perhaps it's some misconfiguration. I simply don't know.
Does it work on your machine ?
- enable more than three mouse-buttons
Mainly Firefox. Firefox does use the additonal buttons for backward and forward. This first appeared in MSIE, Firefox cloned it.
It works out of the box in Fedora, if you enable the buttons in xorg.conf.
- enhancing the gui for extended keyboards
Most keyboards and laptop do have extra keys fort starting applications or changing the speaker-volume.
Getting them to work is, in my opinion, non-obvious and sure to complicated to an average user.
cu romal
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 17:32 +0200, Robert M. Albrecht wrote:
Hi,
- enable Gnomes NFS browsing (network places), in F7 only smb-browsing
seems to be enabled.
Gnomes user manual shows screenshots and descriptions of browsing the network places "Windows computers" and "Unix computers".
I only see Windows computers. I tried to fiddle around in gnome-vfs config-files, ... but I never got nfs-browsing to work.
That's because the module isn't built by default, because the person that wrote it knows that it contains data corruption bugs. It's broken, NFS is broken.
- enhancing the gui for extended keyboards
Most keyboards and laptop do have extra keys fort starting applications or changing the speaker-volume.
Getting them to work is, in my opinion, non-obvious and sure to complicated to an average user.
Go to the keyboard shortcuts, assign keys, it works. And if it doesn't, it's a bug somewhere, and you should file a bug.
Not sure what's complicated about it (although, when the keyboard is detectable, and a keymap exists, it would be nice if it selected the keymap automatically...)
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 17:18 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 17:32 +0200, Robert M. Albrecht wrote:
Hi,
- enable Gnomes NFS browsing (network places), in F7 only smb-browsing
seems to be enabled.
Gnomes user manual shows screenshots and descriptions of browsing the network places "Windows computers" and "Unix computers".
I only see Windows computers. I tried to fiddle around in gnome-vfs config-files, ... but I never got nfs-browsing to work.
That's because the module isn't built by default, because the person that wrote it knows that it contains data corruption bugs. It's broken, NFS is broken.
- enhancing the gui for extended keyboards
Most keyboards and laptop do have extra keys fort starting applications or changing the speaker-volume.
Getting them to work is, in my opinion, non-obvious and sure to complicated to an average user.
Go to the keyboard shortcuts, assign keys, it works. And if it doesn't, it's a bug somewhere, and you should file a bug.
What would be even cooler is "You just pressed a key I don't know about. What do you want it to do?"
- ajax
Le mardi 08 mai 2007 à 13:03 -0400, Adam Jackson a écrit :
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 17:18 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
Go to the keyboard shortcuts, assign keys, it works. And if it doesn't, it's a bug somewhere, and you should file a bug.
What would be even cooler is "You just pressed a key I don't know about. What do you want it to do?"
What would be even cooler is correct handling of those keyboards at the driver level (thanksfully handling of HID devices is being reworked right now http://marc.info/?l=linux-usb-devel&m=117670276527382&w=2 )
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 19:40 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le mardi 08 mai 2007 à 13:03 -0400, Adam Jackson a écrit :
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 17:18 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
Go to the keyboard shortcuts, assign keys, it works. And if it doesn't, it's a bug somewhere, and you should file a bug.
What would be even cooler is "You just pressed a key I don't know about. What do you want it to do?"
What would be even cooler is correct handling of those keyboards at the driver level (thanksfully handling of HID devices is being reworked right now http://marc.info/?l=linux-usb-devel&m=117670276527382&w=2 )
Reactive. Adding new models will always take turnaround, vendors won't agree what keys should send what keysyms, blah blah.
I mean, yes, wonderful work, but we still need to fix the enablement path of hardware we've never seen before. "Poke all the weird keys on your keyboard, tell me what they mean, and then click here to submit upstream" sounds like a nice model.
- ajax
Le mardi 08 mai 2007 à 13:20 -0400, Adam Jackson a écrit :
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 19:40 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le mardi 08 mai 2007 à 13:03 -0400, Adam Jackson a écrit :
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 17:18 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
Go to the keyboard shortcuts, assign keys, it works. And if it doesn't, it's a bug somewhere, and you should file a bug.
What would be even cooler is "You just pressed a key I don't know about. What do you want it to do?"
What would be even cooler is correct handling of those keyboards at the driver level (thanksfully handling of HID devices is being reworked right now http://marc.info/?l=linux-usb-devel&m=117670276527382&w=2 )
Reactive. Adding new models will always take turnaround, vendors won't agree what keys should send what keysyms, blah blah.
It's a lot more standardised than you think, since MS apps rely on standard MM keys. The only reason a lot of stuff does not work now is there was no framework to declare enhanced keys at the kernel level/
I mean, yes, wonderful work, but we still need to fix the enablement path of hardware we've never seen before. "Poke all the weird keys on your keyboard, tell me what they mean, and then click here to submit upstream" sounds like a nice model.
We'll see how stuff works out. Not needing a userspace pile of workarounds would be nice (pretend every mice is a MS one worked better than expose all device-spocific alsa knobs to userspace)
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 17:32 +0200, Robert M. Albrecht wrote:
- enhancing the gui for extended keyboards
Most keyboards and laptop do have extra keys fort starting applications or changing the speaker-volume.
Getting them to work is, in my opinion, non-obvious and sure to complicated to an average user.
100% agreed. However, additional gui is not necessary the right answer for that. There is currently a discussion on the hal mailing list on how to best make those keys work.
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 13:19 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 17:32 +0200, Robert M. Albrecht wrote:
- enhancing the gui for extended keyboards
Most keyboards and laptop do have extra keys fort starting applications or changing the speaker-volume.
Getting them to work is, in my opinion, non-obvious and sure to complicated to an average user.
100% agreed. However, additional gui is not necessary the right answer for that. There is currently a discussion on the hal mailing list on how to best make those keys work.
Not quite. The keys talked about on the HAL mailing-list don't even show up in X, or at the input layer. They just don't exist at the kernel level.
The keys that show up without a keysym at the X level (the ones with 0x... in the control-center capplet) need keymaps, or GTK+ understanding X keycodes.
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 22:00 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 13:19 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 17:32 +0200, Robert M. Albrecht wrote:
- enhancing the gui for extended keyboards
Most keyboards and laptop do have extra keys fort starting applications or changing the speaker-volume.
Getting them to work is, in my opinion, non-obvious and sure to complicated to an average user.
100% agreed. However, additional gui is not necessary the right answer for that. There is currently a discussion on the hal mailing list on how to best make those keys work.
Not quite. The keys talked about on the HAL mailing-list don't even show up in X, or at the input layer. They just don't exist at the kernel level.
For these, I had the crazy idea today that maybe you could have a tool that asks you to press a key, and if no key event is coming forward, parse the dmesg output for the keyboard driver warning...
Le mardi 08 mai 2007 à 17:51 -0400, Matthias Clasen a écrit :
For these, I had the crazy idea today that maybe you could have a tool that asks you to press a key, and if no key event is coming forward, parse the dmesg output for the keyboard driver warning...
You won't get a keyboard warning : most enhanced keys do not generate anything today because they're attached to a different device than the main keyboard, and there's no driver for this device (yet)
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 07:29 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le mardi 08 mai 2007 à 17:51 -0400, Matthias Clasen a écrit :
For these, I had the crazy idea today that maybe you could have a tool that asks you to press a key, and if no key event is coming forward, parse the dmesg output for the keyboard driver warning...
You won't get a keyboard warning : most enhanced keys do not generate anything today because they're attached to a different device than the main keyboard, and there's no driver for this device (yet)
I do get warnings for all of the nonworking keys on this laptop, at least.
Em Qua 09 Mai 2007, Matthias Clasen escreveu:
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 07:29 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le mardi 08 mai 2007 à 17:51 -0400, Matthias Clasen a écrit :
For these, I had the crazy idea today that maybe you could have a tool that asks you to press a key, and if no key event is coming forward, parse the dmesg output for the keyboard driver warning...
You won't get a keyboard warning : most enhanced keys do not generate anything today because they're attached to a different device than the main keyboard, and there's no driver for this device (yet)
I do get warnings for all of the nonworking keys on this laptop, at least.
Lucky you :) On mine, none of them are detected by the kernel.
[]'s Marcelo
Marcelo Magno T. Sales wrote:
Em Qua 09 Mai 2007, Matthias Clasen escreveu:
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 07:29 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le mardi 08 mai 2007 à 17:51 -0400, Matthias Clasen a écrit :
For these, I had the crazy idea today that maybe you could have a tool that asks you to press a key, and if no key event is coming forward, parse the dmesg output for the keyboard driver warning...
You won't get a keyboard warning : most enhanced keys do not generate anything today because they're attached to a different device than the main keyboard, and there's no driver for this device (yet)
I do get warnings for all of the nonworking keys on this laptop, at least.
Lucky you :) On mine, none of them are detected by the kernel.
I also get this kind of warings: atkbd.c: Unknown key pressed (translated set 2, code 0xd8 on isa0060/serio0). atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e058 <keycode>' to make it known. atkbd.c: Unknown key released (translated set 2, code 0xd8 on isa0060/serio0). atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e058 <keycode>' to make it known.
Em Sáb 12 Mai 2007, dragoran escreveu:
Marcelo Magno T. Sales wrote:
Em Qua 09 Mai 2007, Matthias Clasen escreveu:
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 07:29 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le mardi 08 mai 2007 à 17:51 -0400, Matthias Clasen a écrit :
For these, I had the crazy idea today that maybe you could have a tool that asks you to press a key, and if no key event is coming forward, parse the dmesg output for the keyboard driver warning...
You won't get a keyboard warning : most enhanced keys do not generate anything today because they're attached to a different device than the main keyboard, and there's no driver for this device (yet)
I do get warnings for all of the nonworking keys on this laptop, at least.
Lucky you :) On mine, none of them are detected by the kernel.
I also get this kind of warings: atkbd.c: Unknown key pressed (translated set 2, code 0xd8 on isa0060/serio0). atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e058 <keycode>' to make it known. atkbd.c: Unknown key released (translated set 2, code 0xd8 on isa0060/serio0). atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e058 <keycode>' to make it known.
These are easier to solve. Use the setkeycodes command to map ths scancodes listed to unused keycodes. Then you'll be able to use these keys even in X and map shortcuts to them. You may add the setkeycodes lines in /etc/rc.d/rc.local so that they are always executed when you boot.
[]'s Marcelo
On Mon, 2007-05-14 at 13:07 -0300, Marcelo Magno T. Sales wrote:
Em Sáb 12 Mai 2007, dragoran escreveu:
<snip>
I also get this kind of warings: atkbd.c: Unknown key pressed (translated set 2, code 0xd8 on isa0060/serio0). atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e058 <keycode>' to make it known. atkbd.c: Unknown key released (translated set 2, code 0xd8 on isa0060/serio0). atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e058 <keycode>' to make it known.
These are easier to solve. Use the setkeycodes command to map ths scancodes listed to unused keycodes. Then you'll be able to use these keys even in X and map shortcuts to them. You may add the setkeycodes lines in /etc/rc.d/rc.local so that they are always executed when you boot.
This is exactly what we're trying to fix in a current discussion on the HAL list. See: http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.freedesktop.hal/8257
Marcelo Magno T. Sales wrote:
Em Sáb 12 Mai 2007, dragoran escreveu:
Marcelo Magno T. Sales wrote:
Em Qua 09 Mai 2007, Matthias Clasen escreveu:
On Wed, 2007-05-09 at 07:29 +0200, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le mardi 08 mai 2007 à 17:51 -0400, Matthias Clasen a écrit :
For these, I had the crazy idea today that maybe you could have a tool that asks you to press a key, and if no key event is coming forward, parse the dmesg output for the keyboard driver warning...
You won't get a keyboard warning : most enhanced keys do not generate anything today because they're attached to a different device than the main keyboard, and there's no driver for this device (yet)
I do get warnings for all of the nonworking keys on this laptop, at least.
Lucky you :) On mine, none of them are detected by the kernel.
I also get this kind of warings: atkbd.c: Unknown key pressed (translated set 2, code 0xd8 on isa0060/serio0). atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e058 <keycode>' to make it known. atkbd.c: Unknown key released (translated set 2, code 0xd8 on isa0060/serio0). atkbd.c: Use 'setkeycodes e058 <keycode>' to make it known.
These are easier to solve. Use the setkeycodes command to map ths scancodes listed to unused keycodes. Then you'll be able to use these keys even in X and map shortcuts to them. You may add the setkeycodes lines in /etc/rc.d/rc.local so that they are always executed when you boot.
thats what I do now ;) but I don't think this is a user friendly way ....
On Ter, 2007-05-08 at 08:44 +0200, Robert M. Albrecht wrote:
Network related
- vpn and dialup integration for network manager
- a gui for pairing with bluetooth devices
- a gui for setting up bluetooth and usb dialup devices (mobile phones)
for connecting to the internet
- a gui for setting up 3g networks (umts, ...) for internet access. This
could be an extension to system-config-network
I'd rather prefer that system-config-network disappeared (at least as a default) and Network Manager becomes the default network management system...
Rui
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1
Rui Tiago Cação Matos escribió:
On Ter, 2007-05-08 at 08:44 +0200, Robert M. Albrecht wrote:
Network related
- vpn and dialup integration for network manager - a gui for
pairing with bluetooth devices - a gui for setting up bluetooth and usb dialup devices (mobile phones) for connecting to the internet - a gui for setting up 3g networks (umts, ...) for internet access. This could be an extension to system-config-network
I'd rather prefer that system-config-network disappeared (at least as a default) and Network Manager becomes the default network management system...
Rui
I wouldn't be so forward for this (yet). NM is good, but not THAT good, and neat/system-config-network is a very mature network configuration system. I've had endless problems with NM, particularly with wireless devices (but mainly due to "roaming" from network to network), and have had a bit of issues configuring seemingly trivial stuff that wouldn't stick. Sure that was some time ago, and things have improved, I'm sure, but for the time being system-config-network hasn't let me down, not even once... If the device is not present or not working at a driver level, it is far easier (IMO) to diagnose that with neat than NM... Or has my experience been. I'll have to give NM a try in F7 final (as F7T4 still has some quirks) and hopefully I'll be able to finally ditch the infamous proprietary wireless tool for my wireless connection, and have the system use the wireless connection and activation of profiles and whatnot directly from NM instead (and no need for root for that either would be nice too).
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 08:44 +0200, Robert M. Albrecht wrote:
Hi,
some things I would love to see improved:
Network related
- vpn and dialup integration for network manager
- a gui for pairing with bluetooth devices
- a gui for setting up bluetooth and usb dialup devices (mobile phones)
for connecting to the internet
- a gui for setting up 3g networks (umts, ...) for internet access. This
could be an extension to system-config-network
These are all targets for NetworkManager in the quite-near future, though PPP (ie Bluetooth DUN, 1xRTT/EVDO/GPRS/EDGE/UMTS, and ISDN/Dialup) may be added on a bit later. It's estimated that NM 0.7 will be done in the FC-8 timeframe (though that's what I said for FC-7 too), which is flexible enough to at least enable all the PPP stuff without breaking API or anything.
Dan
Booting
- faster boot when not connected to a network; many services are
starting really slow, if the network is down
- faster boot times at all
Security
- disabling root (like ubuntu), thus forcing the user to work as a
non-root user
- some kind of backup tool, for the whole system or the users profile
and data
- Integration of clamav in Evolution and Thunderbird
- support for encryption of user data ( /home/...)
Configuration
- Ubuntu has two software installation tools. One shows the complete
repository, the other is intented for endusers. Listed are only applications, with a rating, how well it integrates into the used gui, ... I think this is really cool. Many users are overwhelmed by that many choices Pirut offers. Perhaps this could simply by a button in Pirut to suppress libs or
- GUI for adding third party repositories
- GUI for managing raid configurations, Anacondo can to this, but only
at installation time. If you add a hdd after installation, you have to use mdadm manually.
GUI
- enable Gnomes NFS browsing (network places), in F7 only smb-browsing
seems to be enabled.
- enable more than three mouse-buttons
- enhancing the gui for extended keyboards
- a GUI for laptop-related things: laptop-mode, configuration
suspend2ram or suspend2disk, power-management, ...
cu romal
Matthias Clasen schrieb:
The desktop team has recently started to think about what things we want to focus on beyond F7, and what we want to improve in the Fedora 8 timeframe.
While there are no very detailed specs and commitments yet, I have put together some preliminary information in the wiki, and I'd like to share it with the interested public on this mailing list. Feel free to comment and discuss. There will be some more feature descriptions in the near future, and the ones I have begun will hopefully be fleshed out more fully by their respective owners.
Matthias
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePulseaudio http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePolicyKit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBigboard
On 5/8/07, Robert M. Albrecht romal@gmx.de wrote:
Hi,
some things I would love to see improved:
Network related
- vpn and dialup integration for network manager
- a gui for pairing with bluetooth devices
- a gui for setting up bluetooth and usb dialup devices (mobile phones)
for connecting to the internet
- a gui for setting up 3g networks (umts, ...) for internet access. This
could be an extension to system-config-network
Booting
- faster boot when not connected to a network; many services are
starting really slow, if the network is down
- faster boot times at all
Security
- disabling root (like ubuntu), thus forcing the user to work as a
non-root user
- some kind of backup tool, for the whole system or the users profile
and data
- Integration of clamav in Evolution and Thunderbird
- support for encryption of user data ( /home/...)
Configuration
- Ubuntu has two software installation tools. One shows the complete
repository, the other is intented for endusers. Listed are only applications, with a rating, how well it integrates into the used gui, ... I think this is really cool. Many users are overwhelmed by that many choices Pirut offers. Perhaps this could simply by a button in Pirut to suppress libs or
- GUI for adding third party repositories
- GUI for managing raid configurations, Anacondo can to this, but only
at installation time. If you add a hdd after installation, you have to use mdadm manually.
GUI
- enable Gnomes NFS browsing (network places), in F7 only smb-browsing
seems to be enabled.
- enable more than three mouse-buttons
- enhancing the gui for extended keyboards
- a GUI for laptop-related things: laptop-mode, configuration
suspend2ram or suspend2disk, power-management, ...
cu romal
Matthias Clasen schrieb:
The desktop team has recently started to think about what things we want to focus on beyond F7, and what we want to improve in the Fedora 8 timeframe.
While there are no very detailed specs and commitments yet, I have put together some preliminary information in the wiki, and I'd like to share it with the interested public on this mailing list. Feel free to comment and discuss. There will be some more feature descriptions in the near future, and the ones I have begun will hopefully be fleshed out more fully by their respective owners.
Matthias
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePulseaudio http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePolicyKit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBigboard
I take it that this is all for Gnome users?
Arthur Pemberton wrote:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePulseaudio http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePolicyKit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBigboard
I take it that this is all for Gnome users?
The first two features are DE neutral. Next time trim your post.
Rahul
On 5/8/07, Rahul Sundaram sundaram@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Arthur Pemberton wrote:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePulseaudio http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePolicyKit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBigboard
I take it that this is all for Gnome users?
The first two features are DE neutral. Next time trim your post.
Rahul
Sorry, that was laziness on my part.
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 15:31 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePulseaudio http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePolicyKit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBigboard
I take it that this is all for Gnome users?
No, this is all for users of the Fedora desktop spin.
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 17:52 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 15:31 -0500, Arthur Pemberton wrote:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePulseaudio http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePolicyKit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBigboard
I take it that this is all for Gnome users?
No, this is all for users of the Fedora desktop spin.
And I should have added that of course, people who want KDE to become a first class citizen in Fedora are very much invited to participate in the development to ensure that these things work nicely with KDE, too.
The best place to become involved in PolicyKit development is the hal mailing list, for pulseaudio and bigboard this mailing list is probably fine.
Hey Matthias,
On Mon, 2007-05-07 at 13:28 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
The desktop team has recently started to think about what things we want to focus on beyond F7, and what we want to improve in the Fedora 8 timeframe.
While there are no very detailed specs and commitments yet, I have put together some preliminary information in the wiki, and I'd like to share it with the interested public on this mailing list. Feel free to comment and discuss. There will be some more feature descriptions in the near future, and the ones I have begun will hopefully be fleshed out more fully by their respective owners.
Matthias
I added my soundcard use cases to the page. I posted them quite some time ago, at http://mail.gnome.org/archives/utopia-list/2005-July/msg00001.html And I believe they're pretty good starting points as well.
For use case 3, I guess that Ray's girlfriend shouldn't be able to shutdown the computer, as Ray is busy downloading *cough*art-house movies*cough*. Shouldn't it be only the "principal" user that should be able to choose whether other users can shut down the computer?
And let's add http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBluetooth
I hope a lot of the Bluetooth SoC work will clear that up, although the subject is so wide that one person is far from enough to take it on by themselves...
Cheers
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 11:46 +0100, Bastien Nocera wrote:
For use case 3, I guess that Ray's girlfriend shouldn't be able to shutdown the computer, as Ray is busy downloading *cough*art-house movies*cough*. Shouldn't it be only the "principal" user that should be able to choose whether other users can shut down the computer?
The idea here is there will be two different privileges here, one for shutting down the machine with only one session, and one for shutting down with multiple sessions. gdm can then be smart and ask PolicyKit for the right privilege, depending on the situation.
Hi,
installing pdf-creation-tools is non-intuitive. It`s burried deep inside cups and has to be installed manually.
I create many pdfs,I use it every day. I imagine this is widespread usage.
PDF should have a more prominet place. Even more, we can show what Fedora can do, as other operating-systems do not have built-in pdf-creating-capabilities.
This could be an extensio to first boot:
- Do you want to created pdf-files ? - Do you want to setup your email-encryption ? ...
cu romal
Matthias Clasen schrieb:
The desktop team has recently started to think about what things we want to focus on beyond F7, and what we want to improve in the Fedora 8 timeframe.
While there are no very detailed specs and commitments yet, I have put together some preliminary information in the wiki, and I'd like to share it with the interested public on this mailing list. Feel free to comment and discuss. There will be some more feature descriptions in the near future, and the ones I have begun will hopefully be fleshed out more fully by their respective owners.
Matthias
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePulseaudio http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeaturePolicyKit http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBigboard
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 15:08 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
Here are two more plans:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNetworkManager
" Configuration interface (est. 4 weeks)
* Tambet Ingo has started here. He's 50% done but we need to get 100% done. There's about 3 weeks worth of work here still. "
I guess I don't need to have this on my TODO list any more then :)
And I saw: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureBootShutdownSpeedup
which says: " Do I need to be running a smartcard daemon on a system with no smartcard reader? Do I need a bluetooth service on a system with no bluetooth? "
I'm fairly certain I made that same remark (about the Bluetooth stuff) some years ago, and got called a doofus :)
That's https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=222312 (and blockers) for the interested people.
Bastien Nocera wrote:
On Tue, 2007-05-08 at 15:08 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNetworkManager
" Configuration interface (est. 4 weeks)
* Tambet Ingo has started here. He's 50% done but we need to get 100% done. There's about 3 weeks worth of work here still.
"
I guess I don't need to have this on my TODO list any more then :)
If you're interested, I'd recommend asking him about helping with this. While Tambet is awesome, I understand that he's not working full time on this and it would probably take him longer than we'd like to get done through no fault of his own. We need this in order to enable it by default for FC8 and we should do what we can to make sure this happens.
Matthias Clasen wrote:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNetworkManager
I'm working on a script framework for NetworkManagerDispatcher, allowing the user to configure a network environment using some characteristics. When connecting to that network environment, actions that the user configures are taken.
I'm thinking of authconfig, firewall settings, NFS file sharing, ... and maybe anything else.
-kanarip
Matthias Clasen wrote:
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/FeatureNetworkManager
Now that I'm reading the page a little closer, I see that NetworkManager should also work on servers. I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind this. Does anyone care to elaborate?
-kanarip
On Friday 11 May 2007 20:52:55 Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
Now that I'm reading the page a little closer, I see that NetworkManager should also work on servers. I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind this. Does anyone care to elaborate?
If we're going to move toward NetworkManager everywhere (which we really should, multiple config stacks == bad), NM needs to work well in a server env, static IPs, brought up without login, various other server related needs.
Jesse Keating wrote:
On Friday 11 May 2007 20:52:55 Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
Now that I'm reading the page a little closer, I see that NetworkManager should also work on servers. I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind this. Does anyone care to elaborate?
If we're going to move toward NetworkManager everywhere (which we really should, multiple config stacks == bad), NM needs to work well in a server env, static IPs, brought up without login, various other server related needs.
So the obvious question would be; Are we going to move toward NetworkManager?
I agree that having multiple config stacks is bad, but the problem here is choice (where did I hear that before?). As long as we're not forcing the user / system admin to choose between s-c-n/NM, and/or service network vs. NM, you'll have multiple config stacks. The problem may not be solved by enabling upstream NM to take over s-c-n functionality and stability and just force the use of NM over s-c-n, rather then just letting (forcing) someone choose between the two configuration systems, right?
-kanarip
On Saturday 12 May 2007 12:00:44 Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
So the obvious question would be; Are we going to move toward NetworkManager?
I agree that having multiple config stacks is bad, but the problem here is choice (where did I hear that before?). As long as we're not forcing the user / system admin to choose between s-c-n/NM, and/or service network vs. NM, you'll have multiple config stacks. The problem may not be solved by enabling upstream NM to take over s-c-n functionality and stability and just force the use of NM over s-c-n, rather then just letting (forcing) someone choose between the two configuration systems, right?
I personally don't have an answer for this.
On Sat, 2007-05-12 at 03:55 -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
On Friday 11 May 2007 20:52:55 Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
Now that I'm reading the page a little closer, I see that NetworkManager should also work on servers. I'm not sure I understand the rationale behind this. Does anyone care to elaborate?
If we're going to move toward NetworkManager everywhere (which we really should, multiple config stacks == bad), NM needs to work well in a server env, static IPs, brought up without login, various other server related needs.
No one is going to put any testing effort into this unless we enable NM by default.
- ajax
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