Hello Desktop People,
A few weeks ago there was discussion here about how the Fedora 12 schedule was sub-optimal. I offered to help make sure your concerns were addressed in the Fedora 13 schedule, but nobody responded. I'm checking in with you one last time. If there is no response by the end of this week, I will assume that the proposed schedules meet the needs of the desktop for the Fedora 13 release cycle.
The basic structure of Fedora 13 schedule has been set and will soon go to FESCo for final approval. Once that happens I will build proposed schedules for: Documentation, Translation, Design, Marketing, and Websites.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/Schedule http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-releng-tasks.html
If you have constructive feedback for altering or enhancing the schedule, now is the time to give it. If it would be helpful to create a public Desktop specific schedule I'd be glad to help with that as well.
Thank you, John
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 15:57 -0800, John Poelstra wrote:
Hello Desktop People,
A few weeks ago there was discussion here about how the Fedora 12 schedule was sub-optimal. I offered to help make sure your concerns were addressed in the Fedora 13 schedule, but nobody responded. I'm checking in with you one last time. If there is no response by the end of this week, I will assume that the proposed schedules meet the needs of the desktop for the Fedora 13 release cycle.
The basic structure of Fedora 13 schedule has been set and will soon go to FESCo for final approval. Once that happens I will build proposed schedules for: Documentation, Translation, Design, Marketing, and Websites.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/Schedule http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-releng-tasks.html
If you have constructive feedback for altering or enhancing the schedule, now is the time to give it. If it would be helpful to create a public Desktop specific schedule I'd be glad to help with that as well.
I don't think I have much constructive feedback, other than that the development phase seems very short, with holidays and whatnot.
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 19:44 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 15:57 -0800, John Poelstra wrote:
The basic structure of Fedora 13 schedule has been set and will soon go to FESCo for final approval. Once that happens I will build proposed schedules for: Documentation, Translation, Design, Marketing, and Websites.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/Schedule http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-releng-tasks.html
If you have constructive feedback for altering or enhancing the schedule, now is the time to give it. If it would be helpful to create a public Desktop specific schedule I'd be glad to help with that as well.
I don't think I have much constructive feedback, other than that the development phase seems very short, with holidays and whatnot.
I was just looking at that as well, and have came up with 5 months of development/testing (including from date F12 was released) for the cycle? Just curious, isn't that kind of short? And as stated above, not even realy 5 months, since all the major holidays are included in this cycle.
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 07:58 -0600, Mike Chambers wrote:
I was just looking at that as well, and have came up with 5 months of development/testing (including from date F12 was released) for the cycle? Just curious, isn't that kind of short? And as stated above, not even realy 5 months, since all the major holidays are included in this cycle.
Keep in mind that we've been able to do F-13 builds since 8/28 of 2009, and while they weren't mirrored it was possible to consume these builds and develop software against them.
Fedora currently aims to have a May1 / Oct 31 release set, and thus those are the target areas we use when setting up schedules for the associated releases. We then adjust for various factors, such as other distro release dates and upstream release dates, but for better or worse, we are currently a time based release with predictable release points.
If people want this to change, it really needs to happen at a FESCo or Board level. Releng is just creating the schedules with the current constraints we have to work with.
On 11/25/2009 05:58 AM, Mike Chambers wrote:
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 19:44 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 15:57 -0800, John Poelstra wrote:
The basic structure of Fedora 13 schedule has been set and will soon go to FESCo for final approval. Once that happens I will build proposed schedules for: Documentation, Translation, Design, Marketing, and Websites.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/Schedule http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-releng-tasks.html
If you have constructive feedback for altering or enhancing the schedule, now is the time to give it. If it would be helpful to create a public Desktop specific schedule I'd be glad to help with that as well.
I don't think I have much constructive feedback, other than that the development phase seems very short, with holidays and whatnot.
I was just looking at that as well, and have came up with 5 months of development/testing (including from date F12 was released) for the cycle? Just curious, isn't that kind of short? And as stated above, not even realy 5 months, since all the major holidays are included in this cycle.
Fedora does not usually factor in holidays. I've attempted to include them in previous schedule drafts, but they were dismissed by others as not being relevant to Fedora since we don't have official work days, office hours, etc.. Granted if a serious freeze or release date occurred during a major holiday period I'm sure they would reconsider, but our release dates are such that they don't.
As Jesse said in a separate post we have committed to bi-annual release dates around 31-OCT and 01-May each year. During the first draft of the Fedora 13 I raised this as a concern, noting that when the previous release slips it steals time from the next release.
In the case of Fedora 12, an extra week was added to accommodate for a series of conferences happening at the same time as key release/freeze dates. Two more weeks were added with the slip of the Alpha and Beta. So you are correct, out of the gate Fedora 13 is shorted by 3 weeks giving us almost a 5 month release window.
The flip side of this is Jesse's mention in another post about the branch for Fedora 13 being open before the end of Fedora 12 and the thus development being longer than five months. I'm not sure how this works out in reality for development--if they can really take advantage of the early opening of the next release or if 95% of their energy remains focused on the release at hand.
John
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 13:09 -0800, John Poelstra wrote:
On 11/25/2009 05:58 AM, Mike Chambers wrote:
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 19:44 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 15:57 -0800, John Poelstra wrote:
The basic structure of Fedora 13 schedule has been set and will soon go to FESCo for final approval. Once that happens I will build proposed schedules for: Documentation, Translation, Design, Marketing, and Websites.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/Schedule http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-releng-tasks.html
If you have constructive feedback for altering or enhancing the schedule, now is the time to give it. If it would be helpful to create a public Desktop specific schedule I'd be glad to help with that as well.
I don't think I have much constructive feedback, other than that the development phase seems very short, with holidays and whatnot.
I was just looking at that as well, and have came up with 5 months of development/testing (including from date F12 was released) for the cycle? Just curious, isn't that kind of short? And as stated above, not even realy 5 months, since all the major holidays are included in this cycle.
Fedora does not usually factor in holidays. I've attempted to include them in previous schedule drafts, but they were dismissed by others as not being relevant to Fedora since we don't have official work days, office hours, etc.. Granted if a serious freeze or release date occurred during a major holiday period I'm sure they would reconsider, but our release dates are such that they don't.
I've seen plenty of earlier discussion where rel-eng was carefully trying to triangulate the release date around thanksgiving or easter. It seems somewhat unfair to say that rel-eng get to take holidays, but developers are expected to work straight through... :-)
The flip side of this is Jesse's mention in another post about the branch for Fedora 13 being open before the end of Fedora 12 and the thus development being longer than five months. I'm not sure how this works out in reality for development--if they can really take advantage of the early opening of the next release or if 95% of their energy remains focused on the release at hand.
If we want to get away from the 'just a feature dump' and 'just a beta' monikers, we'll have to face the fact that it does not work out in practise, at some point.
On 11/25/2009 01:45 PM, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 13:09 -0800, John Poelstra wrote:
On 11/25/2009 05:58 AM, Mike Chambers wrote:
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 19:44 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 15:57 -0800, John Poelstra wrote:
The basic structure of Fedora 13 schedule has been set and will soon go to FESCo for final approval. Once that happens I will build proposed schedules for: Documentation, Translation, Design, Marketing, and Websites.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/Schedule http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-releng-tasks.html
If you have constructive feedback for altering or enhancing the schedule, now is the time to give it. If it would be helpful to create a public Desktop specific schedule I'd be glad to help with that as well.
I don't think I have much constructive feedback, other than that the development phase seems very short, with holidays and whatnot.
I was just looking at that as well, and have came up with 5 months of development/testing (including from date F12 was released) for the cycle? Just curious, isn't that kind of short? And as stated above, not even realy 5 months, since all the major holidays are included in this cycle.
Fedora does not usually factor in holidays. I've attempted to include them in previous schedule drafts, but they were dismissed by others as not being relevant to Fedora since we don't have official work days, office hours, etc.. Granted if a serious freeze or release date occurred during a major holiday period I'm sure they would reconsider, but our release dates are such that they don't.
I've seen plenty of earlier discussion where rel-eng was carefully trying to triangulate the release date around thanksgiving or easter. It seems somewhat unfair to say that rel-eng get to take holidays, but developers are expected to work straight through... :-)
That does sound inconsistent. Which releases did this happen for and where did the discussion take place?
John
On Nov 25, 2009, at 13:45, Matthias Clasen mclasen@redhat.com wrote:
On Wed, 2009-11-25 at 13:09 -0800, John Poelstra wrote:
On 11/25/2009 05:58 AM, Mike Chambers wrote:
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 19:44 -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Tue, 2009-11-24 at 15:57 -0800, John Poelstra wrote:
The basic structure of Fedora 13 schedule has been set and will soon go to FESCo for final approval. Once that happens I will build proposed schedules for: Documentation, Translation, Design, Marketing, and Websites.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/13/Schedule http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-13/f-13-releng-tasks.html
If you have constructive feedback for altering or enhancing the schedule, now is the time to give it. If it would be helpful to create a public Desktop specific schedule I'd be glad to help with that as well.
I don't think I have much constructive feedback, other than that the development phase seems very short, with holidays and whatnot.
I was just looking at that as well, and have came up with 5 months of development/testing (including from date F12 was released) for the cycle? Just curious, isn't that kind of short? And as stated above, not even realy 5 months, since all the major holidays are included in this cycle.
Fedora does not usually factor in holidays. I've attempted to include them in previous schedule drafts, but they were dismissed by others as not being relevant to Fedora since we don't have official work days, office hours, etc.. Granted if a serious freeze or release date occurred during a major holiday period I'm sure they would reconsider, but our release dates are such that they don't.
I've seen plenty of earlier discussion where rel-eng was carefully trying to triangulate the release date around thanksgiving or easter. It seems somewhat unfair to say that rel-eng get to take holidays, but developers are expected to work straight through... :-)
That's not it at all. We try to avoid any deadline that would fall on or near a major holiday. That's more for the developers than releng.
The flip side of this is Jesse's mention in another post about the branch for Fedora 13 being open before the end of Fedora 12 and the thus development being longer than five months. I'm not sure how this works out in reality for development--if they can really take advantage of the early opening of the next release or if 95% of their energy remains focused on the release at hand.
If we want to get away from the 'just a feature dump' and 'just a beta' monikers, we'll have to face the fact that it does not work out in practise, at some point.
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