With the creation of the 3 Fedora flavours, the process of tracking bugs and RFE's for Fedora workstation is a lot more muddled than it already is. Should this be something that we should focus on as a meta-task for the F22 release?
Bugzilla currently tracks issues on a per-package (component in the Bugzilla terminology ) basis, so some packages are used in all 3 flavours, but others are more specific to Workstation (e.g. gnome-shell). And some of these have a lot of bugs in the NEW status (gnome-shell has over 830).
I'm not sure what the solution is here, but from a user point of view, the experience for filing a bug, RFE or providing feedback for the workstation is very confusing. IMHO, we shouldn't expect users to know what component their bug is against, or if they should file a bug upstream or not.
So i'm reaching out for thoughts / ideas on how to make this better.
cheers, ryanlerch
On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com wrote:
With the creation of the 3 Fedora flavours, the process of tracking bugs and RFE's for Fedora workstation is a lot more muddled than it already is. Should this be something that we should focus on as a meta-task for the F22 release?
Bugzilla currently tracks issues on a per-package (component in the Bugzilla terminology ) basis, so some packages are used in all 3 flavours, but others are more specific to Workstation (e.g. gnome-shell). And some of these have a lot of bugs in the NEW status (gnome-shell has over 830).
I'm not sure what the solution is here, but from a user point of view, the experience for filing a bug, RFE or providing feedback for the workstation is very confusing. IMHO, we shouldn't expect users to know what component their bug is against, or if they should file a bug upstream or not.
So i'm reaching out for thoughts / ideas on how to make this better.
We have the Workstation trac instance. For RFE's specific to workstation, people could file those there. I know trac is horrible, but we have nothing better at the moment. Package specific problems still likely belong in the per-package component in bugzilla though.
josh
On Thu, Dec 04, 2014 at 12:34:58PM -0500, Josh Boyer wrote:
On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com wrote:
With the creation of the 3 Fedora flavours, the process of tracking bugs and RFE's for Fedora workstation is a lot more muddled than it already is. Should this be something that we should focus on as a meta-task for the F22 release?
Bugzilla currently tracks issues on a per-package (component in the Bugzilla terminology ) basis, so some packages are used in all 3 flavours, but others are more specific to Workstation (e.g. gnome-shell). And some of these have a lot of bugs in the NEW status (gnome-shell has over 830).
I'm not sure what the solution is here, but from a user point of view, the experience for filing a bug, RFE or providing feedback for the workstation is very confusing. IMHO, we shouldn't expect users to know what component their bug is against, or if they should file a bug upstream or not.
So i'm reaching out for thoughts / ideas on how to make this better.
We have the Workstation trac instance. For RFE's specific to workstation, people could file those there. I know trac is horrible, but we have nothing better at the moment. Package specific problems still likely belong in the per-package component in bugzilla though.
I have to agree with per-package BZ filing for now, even though BZ is also horrible in its own way. Also it could get confusing for users to have different guidance scattered around Fedora docs and other online resources.
I'm glad you reminded about the Trac. On a separate but related note, we could track WG agenda and tasks there, as I believe other WGs do. That may cost a couple extra minutes for a task, but it can help with accountability.
These are the current tickets, probably out of date:
https://fedorahosted.org/workstation/report/1
#7 - sync Spec package list with comps/kickstart - Seems done, Kalev?
#3 - KDE integration - This task needs to be more clearly spelled out, and it sounds like this is more about a higher-level Software installer discussion which we need to follow up on, right?
#4 - KDE variant of Adwaita theme - AIUI not done yet but in progress, per Matthias and Christian's comments in the last meeting. We should probably reset the milestone for F22 Alpha.
#8 - On-demand socket activation for services - looks like a one-off request from twaugh, but AFAICT we missed this for F21 -- is that right?
On 12/05/2014 12:09 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Thu, Dec 04, 2014 at 12:34:58PM -0500, Josh Boyer wrote:
On Thu, Dec 4, 2014 at 11:58 AM, Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com wrote:
With the creation of the 3 Fedora flavours, the process of tracking bugs and RFE's for Fedora workstation is a lot more muddled than it already is. Should this be something that we should focus on as a meta-task for the F22 release?
Bugzilla currently tracks issues on a per-package (component in the Bugzilla terminology ) basis, so some packages are used in all 3 flavours, but others are more specific to Workstation (e.g. gnome-shell). And some of these have a lot of bugs in the NEW status (gnome-shell has over 830).
I'm not sure what the solution is here, but from a user point of view, the experience for filing a bug, RFE or providing feedback for the workstation is very confusing. IMHO, we shouldn't expect users to know what component their bug is against, or if they should file a bug upstream or not.
So i'm reaching out for thoughts / ideas on how to make this better.
We have the Workstation trac instance. For RFE's specific to workstation, people could file those there. I know trac is horrible, but we have nothing better at the moment. Package specific problems still likely belong in the per-package component in bugzilla though.
I have to agree with per-package BZ filing for now, even though BZ is also horrible in its own way. Also it could get confusing for users to have different guidance scattered around Fedora docs and other online resources.
Getting a list of components that are almost exclusively Fedora Workstation's responsibility would also be useful too (or the ones that we care the most about -- like packages and components that are included in the default install) might be a good way to go as well.
And tracking the stats on these, and starting to try to triage these. I am happy to help out with the triage efforts.
cheers, ryanlerch
I'm glad you reminded about the Trac. On a separate but related note, we could track WG agenda and tasks there, as I believe other WGs do. That may cost a couple extra minutes for a task, but it can help with accountability.
These are the current tickets, probably out of date:
https://fedorahosted.org/workstation/report/1
#7 - sync Spec package list with comps/kickstart - Seems done, Kalev?
#3 - KDE integration - This task needs to be more clearly spelled out, and it sounds like this is more about a higher-level Software installer discussion which we need to follow up on, right?
#4 - KDE variant of Adwaita theme - AIUI not done yet but in progress, per Matthias and Christian's comments in the last meeting. We should probably reset the milestone for F22 Alpha.
#8 - On-demand socket activation for services - looks like a one-off request from twaugh, but AFAICT we missed this for F21 -- is that right?
----- Original Message -----
With the creation of the 3 Fedora flavours, the process of tracking bugs and RFE's for Fedora workstation is a lot more muddled than it already is. Should this be something that we should focus on as a meta-task for the F22 release?
Bugzilla currently tracks issues on a per-package (component in the Bugzilla terminology ) basis, so some packages are used in all 3 flavours, but others are more specific to Workstation (e.g. gnome-shell). And some of these have a lot of bugs in the NEW status (gnome-shell has over 830).
Regarding that specifically, the Red Hat Bugzilla's performance makes it unusable for anything but looking at one single bug. Triaging bugs is a good way to waste weeks of time, and gain close to nothing.
Cheers
On 12/05/2014 03:33 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote:
----- Original Message -----
With the creation of the 3 Fedora flavours, the process of tracking bugs and RFE's for Fedora workstation is a lot more muddled than it already is. Should this be something that we should focus on as a meta-task for the F22 release?
Bugzilla currently tracks issues on a per-package (component in the Bugzilla terminology ) basis, so some packages are used in all 3 flavours, but others are more specific to Workstation (e.g. gnome-shell). And some of these have a lot of bugs in the NEW status (gnome-shell has over 830).
Regarding that specifically, the Red Hat Bugzilla's performance makes it unusable for anything but looking at one single bug. Triaging bugs is a good way to waste weeks of time, and gain close to nothing.
Cheers
That is all well and good, but it doesn't really help us solve the issue that users are filing bugs, and some of them may be useful feedback and ideas on improving Fedora Workstation, but they are just sitting there.
Any thoughts on how we can make this better for our users?
I have started a triage attempt on the gnome-shell bugs to try to weed out some of the older ones that no longer apply, 847 left to go :)
cheers, ryanlerch
On Fri, Dec 05, 2014 at 10:03:25AM -0500, Ryan Lerch wrote:
On 12/05/2014 03:33 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote:
----- Original Message -----
With the creation of the 3 Fedora flavours, the process of tracking bugs and RFE's for Fedora workstation is a lot more muddled than it already is. Should this be something that we should focus on as a meta-task for the F22 release?
Bugzilla currently tracks issues on a per-package (component in the Bugzilla terminology ) basis, so some packages are used in all 3 flavours, but others are more specific to Workstation (e.g. gnome-shell). And some of these have a lot of bugs in the NEW status (gnome-shell has over 830).
Regarding that specifically, the Red Hat Bugzilla's performance makes it unusable for anything but looking at one single bug. Triaging bugs is a good way to waste weeks of time, and gain close to nothing.
Cheers
That is all well and good, but it doesn't really help us solve the issue that users are filing bugs, and some of them may be useful feedback and ideas on improving Fedora Workstation, but they are just sitting there.
Any thoughts on how we can make this better for our users?
I have started a triage attempt on the gnome-shell bugs to try to weed out some of the older ones that no longer apply, 847 left to go :)
BTW there should be easy ways to filter the set -- like separating crashes out from other bugs. I'm not saying we should ignore crashes, but the filter helps if you're trying to look for more general feedback or ideas.
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/buglist.cgi?bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGN... ** OR: http://ur1.ca/izz9a [non-ABRT gnome-shell bugs for F20, F21, rawhide: 224]
Bastien's right that triage takes a lot of time, especially with a slow BZ. But would it be possible to sort these bugs into a few general bins? Examples: a11y, video issues, performance, etc.? The purpose would be to see if one area seems to attract more feedback or complaints than others, and that might help with F22 prioritization.
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Bastien Nocera -
Josh Boyer -
Paul W. Frields -
Ryan Lerch