Hi all,
I have been working on a feature proposal for a while now to propose cleaning up the wallpapers that we present to the user by default in Workstation. It has been on the agenda for the last few meetings, but we have run out of time in those meetings :(
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WallpapersCleanup
Basically, the proposal is to clean out the wallpapers that we currently present to the user, and just show:
1. The default fedora wallpaper for the release (the one created by the Fedora Design Team) 2. The default wallpaper for the upstream desktop release (e.g. the default GNOME wallpaper for the release of GNOME being shipped) 3. A new set of 15 alternative default wallpapers chosen from the past Fedora supplemental wallpapers. The supplemental wallpapers are a set of wallpapers (that change every release) that are included in the repos for people to install and use. The idea here would be to choose 15 of the best from all past supplemental wallpaper packages to be included by default.
cheers, ryanlerch
A bit of a digression, but it would be nice to have a page or place where one can find all old Fedora wallpapers. The Lion one is still my favorite of any Fedora wallpapers through the ages and I to this day dig it up and set it as my wallpaper from time to time :)
Christian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Lerch" rlerch@redhat.com To: "Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop" desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 10:16:33 AM Subject: Wallpaper Cleanup
Hi all,
I have been working on a feature proposal for a while now to propose cleaning up the wallpapers that we present to the user by default in Workstation. It has been on the agenda for the last few meetings, but we have run out of time in those meetings :(
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WallpapersCleanup
Basically, the proposal is to clean out the wallpapers that we currently present to the user, and just show:
- The default fedora wallpaper for the release (the one created by the
Fedora Design Team) 2. The default wallpaper for the upstream desktop release (e.g. the default GNOME wallpaper for the release of GNOME being shipped) 3. A new set of 15 alternative default wallpapers chosen from the past Fedora supplemental wallpapers. The supplemental wallpapers are a set of wallpapers (that change every release) that are included in the repos for people to install and use. The idea here would be to choose 15 of the best from all past supplemental wallpaper packages to be included by default.
cheers, ryanlerch -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On 01/20/2015 10:50 AM, Christian Schaller wrote:
A bit of a digression, but it would be nice to have a page or place where one can find all old Fedora wallpapers. The Lion one is still my favorite of any Fedora wallpapers through the ages and I to this day dig it up and set it as my wallpaper from time to time :)
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers
:)
~m
On Tue, 2015-01-20 at 10:52 -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote:
On 01/20/2015 10:50 AM, Christian Schaller wrote:
A bit of a digression, but it would be nice to have a page or place where one can find all old Fedora wallpapers. The Lion one is still my favorite of any Fedora wallpapers through the ages and I to this day dig it up and set it as my wallpaper from time to time :)
Some of them (if not all) are still packaged in Fedora, should we add the package names to that page?
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 04:58:07PM +0100, Mathieu Bridon wrote:
On Tue, 2015-01-20 at 10:52 -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote:
On 01/20/2015 10:50 AM, Christian Schaller wrote:
A bit of a digression, but it would be nice to have a page or place where one can find all old Fedora wallpapers. The Lion one is still my favorite of any Fedora wallpapers through the ages and I to this day dig it up and set it as my wallpaper from time to time :)
Some of them (if not all) are still packaged in Fedora, should we add the package names to that page?
Thanks to Ryan for starting. I added some more. Feel free to go further back than F13.
V Tue, 20 Jan 2015 16:58:07 +0100 Mathieu Bridon bochecha@fedoraproject.org napsáno:
On Tue, 2015-01-20 at 10:52 -0500, Máirín Duffy wrote:
On 01/20/2015 10:50 AM, Christian Schaller wrote:
A bit of a digression, but it would be nice to have a page or place where one can find all old Fedora wallpapers. The Lion one is still my favorite of any Fedora wallpapers through the ages and I to this day dig it up and set it as my wallpaper from time to time :)
Some of them (if not all) are still packaged in Fedora, should we add the package names to that page?
Since Fedora 8 the packages are: * fedorainfinity-backgrounds * desktop-backgrounds-waves * solar-backgrounds * leonidas-backgrounds * constantine-backgrounds * goddard-backgrounds * laughlin-backgrounds * lovelock-backgrounds * verne-backgrounds * beefy-miracle-backgrounds * spherical-cow-backgrounds * schroedinger-cat-backgrounds * heisenbug-backgrounds * f21-backgrounds
And couple more that didn't win, but still were packaged back in the day: * gears-backgrounds * neon-backgrounds
Some of them are further sorted by desktop environments, e.g. for gnome you need to install heisenbug-backgrounds-gnome.
Ah, thank you :) strangely enough that page doesn't pop up at the top of my searches for 'Fedora Leonidas wallpaper', anyway the page made me rediscover the Fedora 16 image which I also really liked :) So thank you.
Christian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Máirín Duffy" duffy@fedoraproject.org To: desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 10:52:30 AM Subject: Re: Wallpaper Cleanup
On 01/20/2015 10:50 AM, Christian Schaller wrote:
A bit of a digression, but it would be nice to have a page or place where one can find all old Fedora wallpapers. The Lion one is still my favorite of any Fedora wallpapers through the ages and I to this day dig it up and set it as my wallpaper from time to time :)
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Wallpapers
:)
~m
desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On 01/20/2015 10:50 AM, Christian Schaller wrote:
A bit of a digression, but it would be nice to have a page or place where one can find all old Fedora wallpapers. The Lion one is still my favorite of any Fedora wallpapers through the ages and I to this day dig it up and set it as my wallpaper from time to time :)
Christian
AFAIK, all the previous ones are still packaged in the repos. But it would be nice to have a listing somewhere online of what packages install what wallpapers.
Not sure if it is in the scope of GNOME software, but they might be able to be presented there too.
Sorry to keep going on the digression :)
--ryanlerch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Lerch" rlerch@redhat.com To: "Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop" desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2015 10:16:33 AM Subject: Wallpaper Cleanup
Hi all,
I have been working on a feature proposal for a while now to propose cleaning up the wallpapers that we present to the user by default in Workstation. It has been on the agenda for the last few meetings, but we have run out of time in those meetings :(
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WallpapersCleanup
Basically, the proposal is to clean out the wallpapers that we currently present to the user, and just show:
- The default fedora wallpaper for the release (the one created by the
Fedora Design Team) 2. The default wallpaper for the upstream desktop release (e.g. the default GNOME wallpaper for the release of GNOME being shipped) 3. A new set of 15 alternative default wallpapers chosen from the past Fedora supplemental wallpapers. The supplemental wallpapers are a set of wallpapers (that change every release) that are included in the repos for people to install and use. The idea here would be to choose 15 of the best from all past supplemental wallpaper packages to be included by default.
cheers, ryanlerch -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On Tue, 2015-01-20 at 11:45 -0500, Ryan Lerch wrote:
On 01/20/2015 10:50 AM, Christian Schaller wrote:
A bit of a digression, but it would be nice to have a page or place where one can find all old Fedora wallpapers. The Lion one is still my favorite of any Fedora wallpapers through the ages and I to this day dig it up and set it as my wallpaper from time to time :)
Christian
AFAIK, all the previous ones are still packaged in the repos. But it would be nice to have a listing somewhere online of what packages install what wallpapers.
Not sure if it is in the scope of GNOME software, but they might be able to be presented there too.
Sorry to keep going on the digression :)
I think packaging wallpapers is a really poor match. It really is not software, so why would you go to an application called 'software' to get more of it ? I'd much rather see a nice online listing on them in the firefox tiles. The wiki page is maybe a bit bland for that, though.
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com wrote:
Hi all,
I have been working on a feature proposal for a while now to propose cleaning up the wallpapers that we present to the user by default in Workstation. It has been on the agenda for the last few meetings, but we have run out of time in those meetings :(
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WallpapersCleanup
Basically, the proposal is to clean out the wallpapers that we currently present to the user, and just show:
- The default fedora wallpaper for the release (the one created by the
Fedora Design Team) 2. The default wallpaper for the upstream desktop release (e.g. the default GNOME wallpaper for the release of GNOME being shipped) 3. A new set of 15 alternative default wallpapers chosen from the past Fedora supplemental wallpapers. The supplemental wallpapers are a set of wallpapers (that change every release) that are included in the repos for people to install and use. The idea here would be to choose 15 of the best from all past supplemental wallpaper packages to be included by default.
Semi related we should do something about this ever changing wallpapers ... hit me multiple times that after an upgrade I end up with a white wallpaper because the file was removed. Not that big of an issue but it looks bad.
On 01/20/2015 11:03 AM, drago01 wrote:
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com wrote:
Hi all,
I have been working on a feature proposal for a while now to propose cleaning up the wallpapers that we present to the user by default in Workstation. It has been on the agenda for the last few meetings, but we have run out of time in those meetings :(
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WallpapersCleanup
Basically, the proposal is to clean out the wallpapers that we currently present to the user, and just show:
- The default fedora wallpaper for the release (the one created by the
Fedora Design Team) 2. The default wallpaper for the upstream desktop release (e.g. the default GNOME wallpaper for the release of GNOME being shipped) 3. A new set of 15 alternative default wallpapers chosen from the past Fedora supplemental wallpapers. The supplemental wallpapers are a set of wallpapers (that change every release) that are included in the repos for people to install and use. The idea here would be to choose 15 of the best from all past supplemental wallpaper packages to be included by default.
Semi related we should do something about this ever changing wallpapers ... hit me multiple times that after an upgrade I end up with a white wallpaper because the file was removed. Not that big of an issue but it looks bad.
Hmmm, i have never had this issue. Usually the package that supplies release n-1 stays around for release n for me. The upgrade shouldnt remove previously installed packages should it?
cheers, ryanlerch
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com wrote:
On 01/20/2015 11:03 AM, drago01 wrote:
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com wrote:
Hi all,
I have been working on a feature proposal for a while now to propose cleaning up the wallpapers that we present to the user by default in Workstation. It has been on the agenda for the last few meetings, but we have run out of time in those meetings :(
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WallpapersCleanup
Basically, the proposal is to clean out the wallpapers that we currently present to the user, and just show:
- The default fedora wallpaper for the release (the one created by the
Fedora Design Team) 2. The default wallpaper for the upstream desktop release (e.g. the default GNOME wallpaper for the release of GNOME being shipped) 3. A new set of 15 alternative default wallpapers chosen from the past Fedora supplemental wallpapers. The supplemental wallpapers are a set of wallpapers (that change every release) that are included in the repos for people to install and use. The idea here would be to choose 15 of the best from all past supplemental wallpaper packages to be included by default.
Semi related we should do something about this ever changing wallpapers ... hit me multiple times that after an upgrade I end up with a white wallpaper because the file was removed. Not that big of an issue but it looks bad.
Hmmm, i have never had this issue. Usually the package that supplies release n-1 stays around for release n for me. The upgrade shouldnt remove previously installed packages should it?
No but files. If foo-1.0.rpm ships whatever.png and foo-1.1.rpm no longer ships it ... its gone.
On 01/20/2015 12:30 PM, drago01 wrote:
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 6:04 PM, Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com wrote:
On 01/20/2015 11:03 AM, drago01 wrote:
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 4:16 PM, Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com wrote:
Hi all,
I have been working on a feature proposal for a while now to propose cleaning up the wallpapers that we present to the user by default in Workstation. It has been on the agenda for the last few meetings, but we have run out of time in those meetings :(
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WallpapersCleanup
Basically, the proposal is to clean out the wallpapers that we currently present to the user, and just show:
- The default fedora wallpaper for the release (the one created by the
Fedora Design Team) 2. The default wallpaper for the upstream desktop release (e.g. the default GNOME wallpaper for the release of GNOME being shipped) 3. A new set of 15 alternative default wallpapers chosen from the past Fedora supplemental wallpapers. The supplemental wallpapers are a set of wallpapers (that change every release) that are included in the repos for people to install and use. The idea here would be to choose 15 of the best from all past supplemental wallpaper packages to be included by default.
Semi related we should do something about this ever changing wallpapers ... hit me multiple times that after an upgrade I end up with a white wallpaper because the file was removed. Not that big of an issue but it looks bad.
Hmmm, i have never had this issue. Usually the package that supplies release n-1 stays around for release n for me. The upgrade shouldnt remove previously installed packages should it?
No but files. If foo-1.0.rpm ships whatever.png and foo-1.1.rpm no longer ships it ... its gone.
each wallpaper for a release is in a new package for each release. This allows someone to install the older or newer wallpapers on their system if they wish. prior to f21, these packages were named by the codename, but with f21 not having a codename, the name of the package itself has 21 in it, not the version (the package names all start with f21-backgrounds)
I assume this might have happened between a beta / final step where the package name will not change, but the name of the file it ships might. But this shouldnt happen between versions.
cheers, ryanlerch
Hi,
V Tue, 20 Jan 2015 12:39:32 -0500 Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com napsáno:
each wallpaper for a release is in a new package for each release. This allows someone to install the older or newer wallpapers on their system if they wish. prior to f21, these packages were named by the codename, but with f21 not having a codename, the name of the package itself has 21 in it, not the version (the package names all start with f21-backgrounds)
Not true exactly. Supplemental wallpapers are all in a big single package (one per release). If you're gonna ship "top-15" it's definitely gonna be a problem.
In order for the package not to break users' set-ups during upgrades we would need each of the top-15 wallpapers in a single package which would then the top-15 one require so that the package would stay and new ones would be pulled in. But then the wallpaper poll would keep growing with each update...
I assume this might have happened between a beta / final step where the package name will not change, but the name of the file it ships might. But this shouldnt happen between versions.
Next to impossible for desktop/cinnamon, mate or kde, unless you choose pngs/jpegs directly instead of the provided xml/desktop files with proper descriptions (and updates filenames, should they change), possible for xfce/lxde.
Regards, Martin
On 01/20/2015 02:11 PM, Martin Sourada wrote:
Hi,
V Tue, 20 Jan 2015 12:39:32 -0500 Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com napsáno:
each wallpaper for a release is in a new package for each release. This allows someone to install the older or newer wallpapers on their system if they wish. prior to f21, these packages were named by the codename, but with f21 not having a codename, the name of the package itself has 21 in it, not the version (the package names all start with f21-backgrounds)
Not true exactly. Supplemental wallpapers are all in a big single package (one per release). If you're gonna ship "top-15" it's definitely gonna be a problem.
In order for the package not to break users' set-ups during upgrades we would need each of the top-15 wallpapers in a single package which would then the top-15 one require so that the package would stay and new ones would be pulled in. But then the wallpaper poll would keep growing with each update...
The idea here is that the top 15 won't change from release to release. We may update the default 15 sometime in the future, but at this point in time, the 15 will just be from the previous ones.
Another option would be to just remove the supplemental (if it is in the top 15) from the supplemental package that it is in. The are the defaults, so they will always be there, and if the user installs the supplemental package they are from, then they just get the remaining ones from that supplemental release.
The other option is that duplicates are shown if the user installs the supplemental package that contains one that is now a default one of the 15.
cheers, ryanlerch
I assume this might have happened between a beta / final step where the package name will not change, but the name of the file it ships might. But this shouldnt happen between versions.
Next to impossible for desktop/cinnamon, mate or kde, unless you choose pngs/jpegs directly instead of the provided xml/desktop files with proper descriptions (and updates filenames, should they change), possible for xfce/lxde.
Regards, Martin
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 10:16:33AM -0500, Ryan Lerch wrote:
Hi all,
I have been working on a feature proposal for a while now to propose cleaning up the wallpapers that we present to the user by default in Workstation. It has been on the agenda for the last few meetings, but we have run out of time in those meetings :(
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WallpapersCleanup
Basically, the proposal is to clean out the wallpapers that we currently present to the user, and just show:
- The default fedora wallpaper for the release (the one created by the
Fedora Design Team) 2. The default wallpaper for the upstream desktop release (e.g. the default GNOME wallpaper for the release of GNOME being shipped) 3. A new set of 15 alternative default wallpapers chosen from the past Fedora supplemental wallpapers. The supplemental wallpapers are a set of wallpapers (that change every release) that are included in the repos for people to install and use. The idea here would be to choose 15 of the best from all past supplemental wallpaper packages to be included by default.
I noticed that no one else addressed the proposal head-on, only related matters. ;-) To wit, questions:
* Do the Fedora/GNOME wallpapers remain as is, and the new wallpapers replace the current desktop-backgrounds SRPM content that usually goes into desktop-backgrounds-basic? (Currently that is 6-7 images of stuff like the old ladybugs-on-a-leaf image.) If so, I'm +1.
* Do tiles stay? (Does anyone *use* those anymore? Eww.)
On 01/20/2015 03:21 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:
On Tue, Jan 20, 2015 at 10:16:33AM -0500, Ryan Lerch wrote:
Hi all,
I have been working on a feature proposal for a while now to propose cleaning up the wallpapers that we present to the user by default in Workstation. It has been on the agenda for the last few meetings, but we have run out of time in those meetings :(
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WallpapersCleanup
Basically, the proposal is to clean out the wallpapers that we currently present to the user, and just show:
- The default fedora wallpaper for the release (the one created by the
Fedora Design Team) 2. The default wallpaper for the upstream desktop release (e.g. the default GNOME wallpaper for the release of GNOME being shipped) 3. A new set of 15 alternative default wallpapers chosen from the past Fedora supplemental wallpapers. The supplemental wallpapers are a set of wallpapers (that change every release) that are included in the repos for people to install and use. The idea here would be to choose 15 of the best from all past supplemental wallpaper packages to be included by default.
I noticed that no one else addressed the proposal head-on, only related matters. ;-) To wit, questions:
Do the Fedora/GNOME wallpapers remain as is, and the new wallpapers replace the current desktop-backgrounds SRPM content that usually goes into desktop-backgrounds-basic? (Currently that is 6-7 images of stuff like the old ladybugs-on-a-leaf image.) If so, I'm +1.
Do tiles stay? (Does anyone *use* those anymore? Eww.)
Yeah, that is what i was thinking. Removal aof all the wallpapers there, apart from the Fedora one for the release, and the GNOME one for the gnome release, and the "top 15"
All the older tiles and other images in there won't appear without installing a package. (i.e. no ladybugs by default)
cheers, ryanlerch
Hey Ryan,
Thanks for getting this started - it's great to see.
Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com wrote: ...
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WallpapersCleanup
Basically, the proposal is to clean out the wallpapers that we currently present to the user, and just show:
...
Actually, I think that it would be advantageous to be a bit bolder. What I would love to see is wallpapers that:
* Have a consistent look and feel, both within the set, and across releases. * Are of consistently high-quality. * Promote the Fedora Workstation brand identity, with each image (or the set of images) communicating key ideas we want to be associated with. * Are a coherent and consistent part of the Workstation user experience.
As a part of this, the wallpapers would probably have to be be managed as a single set (meaning - no pooling of images from different sources/projects). Do you think it would be possible/desirable to re-evaluate how Fedora wallpapers are managed, around a set of goals such as these?
Allan
On 01/21/2015 11:40 AM, Allan Day wrote:
Hey Ryan,
Thanks for getting this started - it's great to see.
Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com wrote: ...
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/WallpapersCleanup
Basically, the proposal is to clean out the wallpapers that we currently present to the user, and just show:
...
Actually, I think that it would be advantageous to be a bit bolder. What I would love to see is wallpapers that:
- Have a consistent look and feel, both within the set, and across releases.
- Are of consistently high-quality.
- Promote the Fedora Workstation brand identity, with each image (or
the set of images) communicating key ideas we want to be associated with.
- Are a coherent and consistent part of the Workstation user experience.
Can you provide an example of how this might look in an actual set of wallpapers? would the defaults be a single set or multiple sets.
The Fedora Design team has created wallpapers for each release, and I don't think that should change. This wallpaper is key when it comes to marketing, as most reviewers use the background when reviewing, so having a new wallpaper for each release is a good thing here, and helps define the workstation flavor.
cheers, ryanlerch
As a part of this, the wallpapers would probably have to be be managed as a single set (meaning - no pooling of images from different sources/projects). Do you think it would be possible/desirable to re-evaluate how Fedora wallpapers are managed, around a set of goals such as these?
Allan
Hi all,
A clarification: I didn't intend to propose an alternative to Ryan's plan. There's no reason not to move ahead with that, as far as I'm concerned.
Ryan Lerch rlerch@redhat.com wrote: ...
Basically, the proposal is to clean out the wallpapers that we currently present to the user, and just show:
...
Actually, I think that it would be advantageous to be a bit bolder. What I would love to see is wallpapers that:
...
Can you provide an example of how this might look in an actual set of wallpapers? would the defaults be a single set or multiple sets.
I think it's probably best for us to discuss these ideas elsewhere (sorry for hijacking your thread!) Since you asked, some brief details of what I had in mind:
It could be a single set, or it could be a small number of sets. The main thing that I would be interested to see is a clearer sense that the images go together, which would require a fairly tight definition of each set. For example: close up photographs of animals, macro photographs of flowers, or a particular series of abstract graphics. If assembling a set of photographs, it could also be nice to try and keep the overall style the same (composition, depth of field, colour level, brightness, etc - although I know that could be challenging).
The Fedora Design team has created wallpapers for each release, and I don't think that should change. This wallpaper is key when it comes to marketing, as most reviewers use the background when reviewing, so having a new wallpaper for each release is a good thing here, and helps define the workstation flavor.
Regarding the default wallpaper, one thing I would be really interested in is having consistency across releases, so the default wallpaper comes to define the identity of the product in a more significant way. This would require us to identify a theme that could be varied for each version.
Allan
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
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