I have installed a fresh F29 system and I was a bit surprised that Vulkan drivers weren't present on that system, I had to manually install them (mesa-vulkan-drivers). Vulkan is getting pretty popular lately, there are certain high-profile games on Linux that use Vulkan *exclusively* (you can't run them on OpenGL), and there are many other games which have Vulkan as an option, which might improve performance. The latest breaking news were Valve enabling Wine-based compatibility layer in Steam, that can be used to run many Windows-only games on Linux, and it's again relying on Vulkan. So Vulkan is definitely getting mainstream.
In order to have Fedora Workstation appealing to general users, I believe it should be a good choice for gaming (Christian wrote on his blog about considering including gamemode by default, that also ties into this).
Is there any reason why Vulkan drivers are not installed by default in Fedora Workstation? Is that something we can fix for F29?
Thanks!
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:17 AM Kamil Paral kparal@redhat.com wrote:
I have installed a fresh F29 system and I was a bit surprised that Vulkan drivers weren't present on that system, I had to manually install them (mesa-vulkan-drivers). Vulkan is getting pretty popular lately, there are certain high-profile games on Linux that use Vulkan *exclusively* (you can't run them on OpenGL), and there are many other games which have Vulkan as an option, which might improve performance. The latest breaking news were Valve enabling Wine-based compatibility layer in Steam, that can be used to run many Windows-only games on Linux, and it's again relying on Vulkan. So Vulkan is definitely getting mainstream.
In order to have Fedora Workstation appealing to general users, I believe it should be a good choice for gaming (Christian wrote on his blog about considering including gamemode by default, that also ties into this).
Is there any reason why Vulkan drivers are not installed by default in Fedora Workstation? Is that something we can fix for F29?
The maintainers might not feel they're ready or not have the resources to support them OOTB. The mesa/Xorg team is pretty active enabling things by default they believe are ready.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 12:31 PM Peter Robinson pbrobinson@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:17 AM Kamil Paral kparal@redhat.com wrote:
I have installed a fresh F29 system and I was a bit surprised that
Vulkan drivers weren't present on that system, I had to manually install them (mesa-vulkan-drivers). Vulkan is getting pretty popular lately, there are certain high-profile games on Linux that use Vulkan *exclusively* (you can't run them on OpenGL), and there are many other games which have Vulkan as an option, which might improve performance. The latest breaking news were Valve enabling Wine-based compatibility layer in Steam, that can be used to run many Windows-only games on Linux, and it's again relying on Vulkan. So Vulkan is definitely getting mainstream.
In order to have Fedora Workstation appealing to general users, I
believe it should be a good choice for gaming (Christian wrote on his blog about considering including gamemode by default, that also ties into this).
Is there any reason why Vulkan drivers are not installed by default in
Fedora Workstation? Is that something we can fix for F29?
The maintainers might not feel they're ready or not have the resources to support them OOTB. The mesa/Xorg team is pretty active enabling things by default they believe are ready.
Hey Peter, that's sounds like speculation. I can definitely ask Mesa team whether they feel whether the driver is ready. My question was whether there is a reason why the package is not installed in Workstation by default, and that's decided by Workstation SIG not Mesa team, right? If it's not installed because the driver quality is questionable, sure, that's a good answer. But I'm trying to make sure this is not a simple omission. Vulkan is pretty new and I can imagine no-one simply didn't think about putting in into Workstation comps group yet (hence this email).
Thanks.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:42 AM Kamil Paral kparal@redhat.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 12:31 PM Peter Robinson pbrobinson@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:17 AM Kamil Paral kparal@redhat.com wrote:
I have installed a fresh F29 system and I was a bit surprised that Vulkan drivers weren't present on that system, I had to manually install them (mesa-vulkan-drivers). Vulkan is getting pretty popular lately, there are certain high-profile games on Linux that use Vulkan *exclusively* (you can't run them on OpenGL), and there are many other games which have Vulkan as an option, which might improve performance. The latest breaking news were Valve enabling Wine-based compatibility layer in Steam, that can be used to run many Windows-only games on Linux, and it's again relying on Vulkan. So Vulkan is definitely getting mainstream.
In order to have Fedora Workstation appealing to general users, I believe it should be a good choice for gaming (Christian wrote on his blog about considering including gamemode by default, that also ties into this).
Is there any reason why Vulkan drivers are not installed by default in Fedora Workstation? Is that something we can fix for F29?
The maintainers might not feel they're ready or not have the resources to support them OOTB. The mesa/Xorg team is pretty active enabling things by default they believe are ready.
Hey Peter, that's sounds like speculation. I can definitely ask Mesa team whether they feel whether the driver is ready. My question was whether there is a reason why the package is not installed in Workstation by default, and that's decided by Workstation SIG not Mesa team, right? If it's not installed because the driver quality is questionable, sure, that's a good answer. But I'm trying to make sure this is not a simple omission. Vulkan is pretty new and I can imagine no-one simply didn't think about putting in into Workstation comps group yet (hence this email).
It is speculation, and no I would argue it's decided by the HW team that has to maintain the drivers and packages and not Workstation at all, Workstation should be deciding the UX and default apps, not what HW another team may or may not be able to support. If the Workstation team decide to include vulkan and it crashes on a bunch of devices but it wasn't included by the graphics team because they felt it wasn't ready it's no fair on that team because suddenly one team had affected another team without consultation.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 1:28 PM Peter Robinson pbrobinson@gmail.com wrote:
It is speculation, and no I would argue it's decided by the HW team that has to maintain the drivers and packages and not Workstation at all, Workstation should be deciding the UX and default apps, not what HW another team may or may not be able to support. If the Workstation team decide to include vulkan and it crashes on a bunch of devices but it wasn't included by the graphics team because they felt it wasn't ready it's no fair on that team because suddenly one team had affected another team without consultation.
I don't understand what you're getting at or asking me to do. Yes, we need to communicate with each other, of course, I'm not disputing that. Also, it seems logical to me to contact Workstation SIG about this first, because I'm not familiar with their work and perhaps this has been discussed already and there are reasons for the current state. I'd expect Workstation people to get in touch with Mesa people if needed, but of course I can play the middle-man if it makes the life easier for someone. I just need to hear a word from someone who is familiar with this area and why things are the way they are.
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 7:28 AM Peter Robinson pbrobinson@gmail.com wrote:
It is speculation, and no I would argue it's decided by the HW team that has to maintain the drivers and packages and not Workstation at all, Workstation should be deciding the UX and default apps, not what HW another team may or may not be able to support. If the Workstation team decide to include vulkan and it crashes on a bunch of devices but it wasn't included by the graphics team because they felt it wasn't ready it's no fair on that team because suddenly one team had affected another team without consultation.
Lets ask the graphics team :)
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 7:31 AM, Matthias Clasen mclasen@redhat.com wrote:
Lets ask the graphics team :)
If the graphics people are OK with it, then let's do it.
Michael
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 4:26 PM mcatanzaro@gnome.org wrote:
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 7:31 AM, Matthias Clasen mclasen@redhat.com wrote:
Lets ask the graphics team :)
If the graphics people are OK with it, then let's do it.
Great. Are you going to contact them, or should I?
Adding Kevin to CC list as he runs the graphics team. As far as I know they have no objections to adding Vulkan it was more a question if that was a install DVD space issue etc.
Christian
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 11:53 AM Kamil Paral kparal@redhat.com wrote:
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 4:26 PM mcatanzaro@gnome.org wrote:
On Tue, Sep 4, 2018 at 7:31 AM, Matthias Clasen mclasen@redhat.com wrote:
Lets ask the graphics team :)
If the graphics people are OK with it, then let's do it.
Great. Are you going to contact them, or should I?
desktop mailing list -- desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to desktop-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/desktop@lists.fedoraproject.or...
On Tue, 2018-09-04 at 12:14 -0400, Christian Fredrik Schaller wrote:
Adding Kevin to CC list as he runs the graphics team. As far as I know they have no objections to adding Vulkan it was more a question if that was a install DVD space issue etc.
I'm all for it. The issue has more often been that you don't necessarily want the drivers to be Require:d by the vulkan loader package, because buildroot hilarity. I started a thread about possible packaging solutions to this, but people seem to think that's merely a bootstrapping issue, which... I don't have the energy to fight.
But for just adding mesa-vulkan-drivers to the default set in comps, yes, let's do that.
- ajax
On Thu, Sep 6, 2018 at 8:34 PM Adam Jackson ajax@redhat.com wrote:
But for just adding mesa-vulkan-drivers to the default set in comps, yes, let's do that.
Great. I sent a PR here: https://pagure.io/fedora-comps/pull-request/318
Can Mesa/Workstation people please review it and merge it (or ask the repo maintainers to merge it)?
Thanks.
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org