Hi, what I hit everytime I install Fedora Workstation localized to Czech is that after installation from live ISO the system is not fully localized. It's understandable that we cannot fit full support for every language into the Workstation live ISO, but we should have a mechanism that will download all necessary packages after system installation. Something that does the same job as 'dnf langinstall'. The problem with dnf-langpacks is that it's not installed by default and it's a pretty bad user experience if you require the user to go to the terminal to get what they ultimately want: a fully localized system. IMHO it's something that should be done automatically.
By running 'dnf langinstall cs' I got this list of packages:
autocorr-cs gnome-getting-started-docs-cs hyphen-cs libreoffice-langpack-cs man-pages-cs mythes-cs
It means the user doesn't have localized LibreOffice, doesn't have autocorrection in their preferred language, and even Getting started which should explain them basics of using the system is not in their language of choice.
Any ideas how to solve this?
Jiri
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 07:34:38AM -0400, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Hi, what I hit everytime I install Fedora Workstation localized to Czech is that after installation from live ISO the system is not fully localized. It's understandable that we cannot fit full support for every language into the Workstation live ISO, but we should have a mechanism that will download all necessary packages after system installation. Something that does the same job as 'dnf langinstall'. The problem with dnf-langpacks is that it's not installed by default and it's a pretty bad user experience if you require the user to go to the terminal to get what they ultimately want: a fully localized system. IMHO it's something that should be done automatically.
By running 'dnf langinstall cs' I got this list of packages:
autocorr-cs gnome-getting-started-docs-cs hyphen-cs libreoffice-langpack-cs man-pages-cs mythes-cs
It means the user doesn't have localized LibreOffice, doesn't have autocorrection in their preferred language, and even Getting started which should explain them basics of using the system is not in their language of choice.
Any ideas how to solve this?
RFE for anaconda?
Zbyszek
Any ideas how to solve this?
RFE for anaconda?
You might not have an internet connection during installation. Also, we just copy a disk image when installing from Live, so we would need to have basically two step installation - first copy the image, then open it up and download&install localization. It surely would be nice, but I think anaconda devs wouldn't be thrilled.
I think this would fit nicely into gnome-initial-setup. After you pick your language, the system could check whether you have all necessary translations and offer you to install them (probably after a wifi setup step).
It would also be nice to have an option to trigger the same action from control-center -> Region & Language, so you could always go there and click to install all localization files for a particular language. This would be the last measure if you were offline during installation and gnome-initial-setup.
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek píše v Ne 15. 03. 2015 v 22:31 +0100:
On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 07:34:38AM -0400, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Hi, what I hit everytime I install Fedora Workstation localized to Czech is that after installation from live ISO the system is not fully localized. It's understandable that we cannot fit full support for every language into the Workstation live ISO, but we should have a mechanism that will download all necessary packages after system installation. Something that does the same job as 'dnf langinstall'. The problem with dnf-langpacks is that it's not installed by default and it's a pretty bad user experience if you require the user to go to the terminal to get what they ultimately want: a fully localized system. IMHO it's something that should be done automatically.
By running 'dnf langinstall cs' I got this list of packages:
autocorr-cs gnome-getting-started-docs-cs hyphen-cs libreoffice-langpack-cs man-pages-cs mythes-cs
It means the user doesn't have localized LibreOffice, doesn't have autocorrection in their preferred language, and even Getting started which should explain them basics of using the system is not in their language of choice.
Any ideas how to solve this?
RFE for anaconda?
I discussed this with Anaconda guys today and there are several possible options:
1. it's implemented in Anaconda as an additional spoke on the screen while the system is installed. The problem with this is that Live installer is designed not to require working connectivity. There is no way to set network up in Anaconda, you have to go to the network settings in the live session. A bit confusing for users.
2. it's implemented in FirstBoot as an additional spoke. Here you can already set up the network, so there are better chances users will have a working connectivity. The problem is that FirstBoot is not used by Fedora Workstation.
3. it's implemented in Initial Settings in GNOME where I think there is a screen to set up a network, too, so it can be placed right after this screen.
4. there is a service running on the background which checks if a complete localization is installed and if not and if there is a network connection set up it sends a notification that will encourage the user to install missing support, if he/she agrees it starts a PackageKit task.
5. applications themselves ask PackageKit to install required packages if they miss the localization. Something like codecs installation in Totem.
Personally, I like the option #4 and #3 the most.
Anyway, I'd be great to have an option to install missing/additional language support in the Region&Language tool in System Settings. Users may change their mind and want to use their language instead of English anytime later.
Jiri
On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 16:19 +0100, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Anyway, I'd be great to have an option to install missing/additional language support in the Region&Language tool in System Settings. Users may change their mind and want to use their language instead of English anytime later.
Ideally, installation should happen automatically and transparently when a new language is selected.
On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 16:19 +0100, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
I discussed this with Anaconda guys today and there are several possible options:
- it's implemented in Anaconda as an additional spoke on the screen
while the system is installed. The problem with this is that Live installer is designed not to require working connectivity. There is no way to set network up in Anaconda, you have to go to the network settings in the live session. A bit confusing for users.
- it's implemented in FirstBoot as an additional spoke. Here you
can already set up the network, so there are better chances users will have a working connectivity. The problem is that FirstBoot is not used by Fedora Workstation.
- it's implemented in Initial Settings in GNOME where I think there
is a screen to set up a network, too, so it can be placed right after this screen.
- there is a service running on the background which checks if a
complete localization is installed and if not and if there is a network connection set up it sends a notification that will encourage the user to install missing support, if he/she agrees it starts a PackageKit task.
- applications themselves ask PackageKit to install required
packages if they miss the localization. Something like codecs installation in Totem.
Personally, I like the option #4 and #3 the most.
Anyway, I'd be great to have an option to install missing/additional language support in the Region&Language tool in System Settings. Users may change their mind and want to use their language instead of English anytime later.
I don't think is generally worthwhile to break out applications translations as subpackages (libreoffice may be a special case here).
I don't see why this needs to be a 'spoke' in either anaconda or firstboot. After the user selects a language, it should check if there are extra language-specific packages to install, and offer the user to do so (or ask him to get on the network, if that is necessary).
Doing the same in gnome-initial-setup or the control-center is conceivable too. I believe the i18n team has wanted this functionality for a long time.
A late quick follow up to this discussion:
Matthias Clasen wrote:
On Mon, 2015-03-16 at 16:19 +0100, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
I discussed this with Anaconda guys today and there are several possible options:
- it's implemented in Anaconda as an additional spoke on the screen
while the system is installed. The problem with this is that Live installer is designed not to require working connectivity. There is no way to set network up in Anaconda, you have to go to the network settings in the live session. A bit confusing for users.
- it's implemented in FirstBoot as an additional spoke. Here you
can already set up the network, so there are better chances users will have a working connectivity. The problem is that FirstBoot is not used by Fedora Workstation.
- it's implemented in Initial Settings in GNOME where I think there
is a screen to set up a network, too, so it can be placed right after this screen.
- there is a service running on the background which checks if a
complete localization is installed and if not and if there is a network connection set up it sends a notification that will encourage the user to install missing support, if he/she agrees it starts a PackageKit task.
- applications themselves ask PackageKit to install required
packages if they miss the localization. Something like codecs installation in Totem.
Personally, I like the option #4 and #3 the most.
Anyway, I'd be great to have an option to install missing/additional language support in the Region&Language tool in System Settings. Users may change their mind and want to use their language instead of English anytime later.
I don't think is generally worthwhile to break out applications translations as subpackages (libreoffice may be a special case here).
Right the general problem is pretty hard to do correctly (workflow) and the benefits are probably not that great - for %find_lang packages rpm can be configured to install a subset though it is a bit messy since changing it requires reinstalling the packages.
Personally I have wished that firefox was subpackaged into langpacks in Fedora but it seems problematic because of the varying number of langpacks per release.
I don't see why this needs to be a 'spoke' in either anaconda or firstboot. After the user selects a language, it should check if there are extra language-specific packages to install, and offer the user to do so (or ask him to get on the network, if that is necessary).
Right - I think a net install will/should trigger yum/dnf-langpacks to install required langpacks, but for Live it should be done post-install anyway.
Doing the same in gnome-initial-setup or the control-center is conceivable too. I believe the i18n team has wanted this functionality for a long time.
It is true. Perhaps gnome-software could also help?
Currently I think dnf/yum langinstall can be used to pull in langpacks.
Jens
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Jens-Ulrik Petersen -
Jiri Eischmann -
Jiri Eischmann -
Kamil Paral -
Matthias Clasen -
Michael Catanzaro -
Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek