Hi, the Fedora Developer Portal is out [1] and I've been asked by its maintainers if we can help them with a desktop section.
They asked me if we could write up and article how to write a simple "Hello World" GTK+ app using recommended languages and tools. I suppose a Qt app example would also be quite relevant to Fedora Workstation, but we should start with GTK+.
Eventually, we can add XDGApp to "Deploy and Distribute" section and Builder to "Get Tools" section.
Any thoughts, ideas?
Jiri
On Mon, 2015-11-02 at 16:18 +0100, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Hi, the Fedora Developer Portal is out [1] and I've been asked by its maintainers if we can help them with a desktop section.
They asked me if we could write up and article how to write a simple "Hello World" GTK+ app using recommended languages and tools. I suppose a Qt app example would also be quite relevant to Fedora Workstation, but we should start with GTK+.
Eventually, we can add XDGApp to "Deploy and Distribute" section and Builder to "Get Tools" section.
Any thoughts, ideas?
For GNOME apps, there's a ton of material here: https://developer.gnome .org/
I don't really see the value in duplicating it.
On Mon, Nov 02, 2015 at 10:38:29AM -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
For GNOME apps, there's a ton of material here: https://developer.gnome .org/ I don't really see the value in duplicating it.
I agree that we don't want to _duplicate_, but I think there's value in at least introductory information from a Fedora perspective. We can point to upstream docs from that.
Matthew Miller píše v Po 02. 11. 2015 v 11:04 -0500:
On Mon, Nov 02, 2015 at 10:38:29AM -0500, Matthias Clasen wrote:
For GNOME apps, there's a ton of material here: https://developer.g nome .org/ I don't really see the value in duplicating it.
I agree that we don't want to _duplicate_, but I think there's value in at least introductory information from a Fedora perspective. We can point to upstream docs from that.
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader
Exactly. I don't think pointing someone to upstream documentation straightway would actually help. AFAIK the portal is rather focused on people who are new to Linux development. Most of them don't even know the concept of upstream/downstream and I'm pretty sure many of them would struggle with how to set up what they're talking about in upstream documentation on Fedora. Already existing tutorials on the portal are very introductory, too.
Jiri
Hi Jiri.
We have a nice tool, called developer assistant - and I think would be an nice to have a site that actually takes newbies hands and leads them to use this tool for not only development, else testing, package, and launching too. I think on a step by step from code cradle till rpm and back. And in this theme can be every section be complemented - as we have plenty of tools, for pentest, for stability, for etc. If we offer enough choice, and if we offer an kickstart/sourceforge like fedorahosted what is producing copper apps - that will create tons of apps, and even more developers, IMHO.
HTH,
Zoltan
2015-11-02 16:38 GMT+01:00 Matthias Clasen mclasen@redhat.com:
On Mon, 2015-11-02 at 16:18 +0100, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Hi, the Fedora Developer Portal is out [1] and I've been asked by its maintainers if we can help them with a desktop section.
They asked me if we could write up and article how to write a simple "Hello World" GTK+ app using recommended languages and tools. I suppose a Qt app example would also be quite relevant to Fedora Workstation, but we should start with GTK+.
Eventually, we can add XDGApp to "Deploy and Distribute" section and Builder to "Get Tools" section.
Any thoughts, ideas?
For GNOME apps, there's a ton of material here: https://developer.gnome .org/
I don't really see the value in duplicating it.
desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On Nov 2, 2015 11:07 AM, "Zoltan Hoppar" hopparz@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Jiri.
We have a nice tool, called developer assistant - and I think would be an nice to have a site that actually takes newbies hands and leads them to use this tool for not only development, else testing, package, and launching too.
Isn't DevAssist on the chopping block? Thought I saw a thread on -workstation or -devel that basically said "the developers revamp the GUI, or we won't ship it"
I think on a step by step from code cradle till rpm and back. And in this theme can be every section be complemented - as we have plenty of tools, for pentest, for stability, for etc. If we offer enough choice, and if we offer an kickstart/sourceforge like fedorahosted what is producing copper apps - that will create tons of apps, and even more developers, IMHO.
HTH,
Zoltan
2015-11-02 16:38 GMT+01:00 Matthias Clasen mclasen@redhat.com:
On Mon, 2015-11-02 at 16:18 +0100, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
Hi, the Fedora Developer Portal is out [1] and I've been asked by its maintainers if we can help them with a desktop section.
They asked me if we could write up and article how to write a simple "Hello World" GTK+ app using recommended languages and tools. I suppose a Qt app example would also be quite relevant to Fedora Workstation, but we should start with GTK+.
Eventually, we can add XDGApp to "Deploy and Distribute" section and Builder to "Get Tools" section.
Any thoughts, ideas?
For GNOME apps, there's a ton of material here: https://developer.gnome .org/
I don't really see the value in duplicating it.
desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
-- PGP: 06853DF7 -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On Mon, 2015-11-02 at 11:22 -0500, Eric Griffith wrote:
Isn't DevAssist on the chopping block? Thought I saw a thread on -workstation or -devel that basically said "the developers revamp the GUI, or we won't ship it"
That was basically my request, but it's irrelevant because the developers are removing the GUI anyway; it's going to be a web server now, which will run locally, and which you can visit in a browser. It's yet to be determined if we'll ship this or not; that probably depends on whether we put in the effort to make it possible to package a GNOME web app (pointing to the local page) in an RPM. Most likely not going to happen, but that's not set in stone.
Michael
----- Original Message -----
On Mon, 2015-11-02 at 11:22 -0500, Eric Griffith wrote:
Isn't DevAssist on the chopping block? Thought I saw a thread on -workstation or -devel that basically said "the developers revamp the GUI, or we won't ship it"
That was basically my request, but it's irrelevant because the developers are removing the GUI anyway; it's going to be a web server now, which will run locally, and which you can visit in a browser. It's yet to be determined if we'll ship this or not; that probably depends on whether we put in the effort to make it possible to package a GNOME web app (pointing to the local page) in an RPM. Most likely not going to happen, but that's not set in stone.
FWIW, I think we'd do better using those fine DevAssistant developers to work on developer tools. Off the top of my head: - git front-end, such as gitg - serial console, for Arduino, RPi, CHIP hacking, such as moserial - documentation, such as devhelp, or working on JS/Python docs for g-i'ed libraries - specialised containers/VMs/applications, for example, a way to start a "LAMP" front-end, as a normal user, to make local testing and remote deployment easier, or even testing with different versions of Apache/PHP [1]
Cheers
[1]: Doing this as a system service means that you have to admin a whole server, permissions, SELinux, etc. It's one of the reasons why my father uses Windows to write web apps that he eventually deploys on Linux hosts.
On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 9:59 AM, Michael Catanzaro mcatanzaro@gnome.org wrote:
On Mon, 2015-11-02 at 11:22 -0500, Eric Griffith wrote:
Isn't DevAssist on the chopping block? Thought I saw a thread on -workstation or -devel that basically said "the developers revamp the GUI, or we won't ship it"
That was basically my request, but it's irrelevant because the developers are removing the GUI anyway; it's going to be a web server now, which will run locally, and which you can visit in a browser. It's yet to be determined if we'll ship this or not; that probably depends on whether we put in the effort to make it possible to package a GNOME web app (pointing to the local page) in an RPM. Most likely not going to happen, but that's not set in stone.
Surprise, this support will land in Epiphany for F24 after all. So a devassistant web app will definitely be possible.
Michael
On Wed, Nov 11, 2015 at 1:22 AM, Michael Catanzaro mcatanzaro@gnome.org wrote:
Surprise, this support will land in Epiphany for F24 after all. So a devassistant web app will definitely be possible.
Possible: maybe. Useful or necessary? probably not. I really don't think we should have devassistant by default, or at all. Not to mention that this "server + web GUI" thing is kinda scary when it comes to security, especially on multi user systems (yes even if it listens on localhost).
And if it's a "web" app, how can it create the necessary files and folders to "start a new project" (a task that I really don't think we should have a whole app for, but whatever)? How does this work in a multi-user setup? I hope the server doesn't run as root. Will it just give me an archive to download with all the files ready? if so, why have it as a local app and not as a "project template generator" as part of the "fedora developer portal"?
Our goal should be to minimize the default set of apps to a small, polished offering. Installing this tool doesn't help us be a more attractive OS for developers.
Sorry for being all negative here, I know that's usually frowned upon, but I just see no benefit in having this app be a part of our default offering.
On 10 Nov 2015 11:40 p.m., "Elad Alfassa" elad@fedoraproject.org wrote:
Our goal should be to minimize the default set of apps to a small,
polished offering. Installing this tool doesn't help us be a more attractive OS for developers.
Sorry for being all negative here, I know that's usually frowned upon,
but I just see no benefit in having this app be a part of our default offering.
-- -Elad.
Perhaps DevAssistant's functionality might be better rolled into a New Project wizard in GNOME Builder...?
On Mon, 2015-11-02 at 16:18 +0100, Jiri Eischmann wrote:
They asked me if we could write up and article how to write a simple "Hello World" GTK+ app using recommended languages and tools. I suppose a Qt app example would also be quite relevant to Fedora Workstation, but we should start with GTK+.
We have Hello World examples for JavaScript, C++, C, Python, and Vala at https://developer.gnome.org/gnome-devel-demos/unstable/
If you had to pick only one language to document, pick JavaScript, since that is the language we've agreed to focus on for newcomer tutorials. It's the closest we have to a recommended language. Not that I would recommend it. ;)
Michael
One thing that would probably useful (although we are probably a little early for it) would be pulling together documentation on how to take an existing project, turn it into an XDG-app, and make sure it becomes available in Software.
Christian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jiri Eischmann" eischmann@redhat.com To: "Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop" desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Monday, November 2, 2015 10:18:00 AM Subject: Desktop section at Fedora Developer Portal
Hi, the Fedora Developer Portal is out [1] and I've been asked by its maintainers if we can help them with a desktop section.
They asked me if we could write up and article how to write a simple "Hello World" GTK+ app using recommended languages and tools. I suppose a Qt app example would also be quite relevant to Fedora Workstation, but we should start with GTK+.
Eventually, we can add XDGApp to "Deploy and Distribute" section and Builder to "Get Tools" section.
Any thoughts, ideas?
Jiri
desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org