On Mon, 2015-10-26 at 20:25 +0100, drago01 wrote:

Not really mp3 but AAC ... the only use of H264 without those is webrtc (where we opus is used for sound).

We currently do not have AAC either. :/

hi I agree with michael. A11y is critical. Wayland does for the most part work with orca. There are a couple of issues with qt applications which joanmeri and I are attempting to track down but considering the fact that it's an entirely new protocol, I'm amazed it's working as good as it is. Thanks Kendell clark

On 10/26/2015 02:16 PM, Michael Catanzaro wrote:

On Mon, 2015-10-26 at 13:57 -0400, Christian Schaller wrote:

...

Codecs

H264 - I expect us to have sorted through our Koji changes and have this ready for F24, unless we suddenly start blocking on Cisco. Wim Taymans should start looking at getting Main support added at some point. People involved - Kalev Lember (mclasen), Wim Taymans (Kem), Kevin Fenzi (pfrields)

Are you able to say anything on how this is legally possible? Will we be distributing binaries built by Cisco, or will we be paying the maximum royalty? What about MP3 -- my understanding is that H.264 without MP3 results in videos without sound?

This is a critical step forward for us to compete with Ubuntu.

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System Polish

GUI system upgrade - I expect us to have operating system upgrade available during the Fedora 23 lifecycle in GNOME Software, enabling people to upgrade from Fedora 23 to Fedora 24 through GNOME Software. People involved - Richard Hughes (mclasen) and Kalev Lember (mclasen).

This is also a critical step forward for us to compete with Ubuntu.

...

Wayland - I expect us to be shipping Wayland as default in Fedora 24. People involved (Jonas Ådahl (mclasen), Olivier Fourdan (kem) and many more.

I frankly don't expect this to happen, because my understanding is that there is not even so much as a plan for how to avoid a11y regressions, and I hope we don't switch to Wayland before that is all working properly. But I'd love to be proven wrong.

One more thought: we did have plans to drastically simplify Anaconda for F24 (e.g. by running language/keyboard selection in g-i-s in the live environment); will that be implemented?

Michael

hi This would be fantastic. Myself, I'd like to see open source software that works like skype, but isn't skype. SOmething that can import skype contacts, and then use something open on the backend to call them. Sip comes to mind, or webrtc. I don't think something like this exists, but if the skype protocol were ever reverse engineered, at least to the point that a compatible replacement could be developed enough to act as a bridge ... I don't know that I like the state of things. Linux gaming is getting extremely popular and competetive with windows, but the main force behind that is proprietary. Valve is opening up parts of their infrastructure but their main moneymaker is not. I'm not criticizing valve's efforts in linux space that's a great thing. But it seems rather ironic to me and a little ominous that most of the "popular" applications are all closed because they can make things easy where the open source ones cannot. At least that's the impression I get from people when I ask them why they use chrome. Oh it's easy and it just works and so on. It also ties into the google infrastructure. This is worse in the accessibility community because the vast majority of those, at least on linux, are not usable by us. Firefox is the most accessible browser, with epiphany coming in at second. Most softphones are accessible, with a few having various minor bugs. I struggle to get people to drop the proprietary speech synthesizers they're used to and get resistance there, have issues with that myself sometimes. AndThe nvidia driver is an endless circle I don't see a solution for. Nvidia binary driver works so well because nvidia has information about how their graphics chips work they will not share with the open source community. Maybe some people don't care as long as it works but myself I'm inclined to use an open source driver even with issues, if for no other reason than to poke such companies in the eye and to show my support for all the hard work you guys do. And if anyone can get nouveau working perfectly, it's you guys at redhat, I have every confidence. this is not on topic so I'll change the subject so as not to confuse people. I forgot to in line quote, I apologize. I'll make sure to do that next time, I only remembered it right at the end of the message. Thanks Kendell clark Skype is still dominent despite all my efforts at getting people off of it. This is *not* fedora's fault though, just me banging my head against the wall.

On 10/27/2015 06:00 AM, Christian Schaller wrote:

Hi Kendell,

----- Original Message -----

...

From: "kendell clark" coffeekingms@gmail.com To: "Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop" desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Monday, October 26, 2015 6:59:57 PM Subject: Re: Red Hat Engineer plans for Fedora Workstation 24

hi Just a bit of a nit tfor me to pick at. Why are we making it easy for people to install proprietary software like skype, steam and chrome? Seems to me we're just making open source software that much harder to adopt when people can simply fall back on it.

If we are trying to compete with proprietary software by frustrating our users we have already lost, and what we find is that people don't abandon such software, they abandon Fedora. A good example here is the NVidia binary driver, we are the main force behind the open source Nouvou driver, and it will always be our default, but trying to force people to stay on it even if it doesn't meet their needs doesn't help anyone. Our expectation is that Nouvou will quickly become dominant the day it works in a way that solves peoples need. The same is true for any other software.

Please don't flame me,

...

I've got some valid concerns hear. Skype is inaccessible to us blind people, at least out of the box unless a 32 bit qt accessibility plugin is installed. This can easily be accomplished with sudo dnf install qt-at-spi.i686. Steam and chrome are utterly inaccessible to us. Steam should in theory work because it's qt, but in practice it uses a ton of 32 bit libraries so it would require that same 32 bit qt accessibility plugin. Even with that installed however it's not visible to orca. Chrome should be accessible but according to google, linux just isn't popular enough to add accessibility support into chrome directly. I'd be happy to work with fedora on improving chromium's accessibility and have that percolate into chrome, but from what I've heard, the chromium community is not very open to outside change and would likely reject it. Thanks Kendell clark

Well our default software will always be open source and hopefully have good accessibility support, but once again we don't make anyones life better by trying to keep them from the tools they need. People don't install Skype for the fun of it, they do it do call their grandparents, and if Fedora doesn't help them do that they will choose another operating system.

I will try to look into the accessibility issues of both Steam and Chrome, to see if we can do anything to encourage upstream to adopt our accessibility technologies.

Christian

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On 10/26/2015 12:57 PM, Christian Schaller wrote:

...

Hi, While we haven't gotten F23 out the door yet, the time has come to plan for Fedora Workstation 24. Here is what we have so far.

This was originally written for some of our internal planning, but I thought this content could be of general interest to the community and the working group. It is basically the areas we are looking at internally at RH in terms of features to go into Fedora Workstation 24.

Hopefully publishing this will allow people in the community to align your efforts with ours. Of course these are just our plans, as it always is with such things they might slip as we get closer to the actual release.

Christian

Codecs

H264 - I expect us to have sorted through our Koji changes and have this ready for F24, unless we suddenly start blocking on Cisco. Wim Taymans should start looking at getting Main support added at some point. People involved - Kalev Lember (mclasen), Wim Taymans (Kem), Kevin Fenzi (pfrields)

Hardware enablement

Optimus Handling - Better support in the stack for Optimus systems is another item I expect us to have ready for Fedora 24. People involved: Adam Jackson (kem), Ray Strode (mclasen)

GL Dispatch, EGLstreams and EGL Device - While we would be depending on NVidia supporting this to make a practical step forward for most users I expect us to have the framework ready for Fedora 24. People involved - Adam Jackson (kem)

GPU passthrough in Boxes - I expect us to be able to land this feature in time for Fedora 24 unless we end up blocking on the QEMU/KVM team somehow. People involved - Zeeshan Ali (mclasen)

Laptop certification improvements - While not directly Fedora related I expect that we have started doing some serious work in this field by the time Fedora 24 is out and hopefully can start see some benefit coming out of it in terms of better Fedora and RHEL support on new laptop hardware. People involved - Marek Kasik ( Jiri Eischmann)

Battery life - I am expecting to see some tangible results here in time for Fedora Workstation 24. Initial discussions with HW partner underway. People involved - Josh Boyer (pfrields), Laura Abbot (pfrields), Bastien Nocera (mclasen), Owen Taylor (cschalle)

Enterprise features

GDM/KDC proxy access - Integrate two-factor authentication into GDM. Allan Day investigating design. - Allan Day (mclasen), Ray Strode (mclasen), Alexander Bokovoy (dpal).

Improve Firefox integration and kerberos handling. Martin Stransky (jeischma), Simo Source

libsoup/gssapi integration with kerberos framework. Tomas Popela (jeischma)

Further improvements in GOA UI in relation to kerberos handling. Derbashi Ray (mclasen)

Fleet Commander - I want us to have a initial fleet commander to release alongside Fedora 24. It should support GNOME, Firefox and LibreOffice. People involved (Alberto Ruiz)

Windows RDP remoting - We should tie this into the enterprise login and make sure freerdp can use it to authenticate with the windows system. We should try to test it tested by internal IT. People involved - Ondrej Holy (dblechter), Tomas Popela (jeishma), Oliver Haesller (Internal IT)

System Polish

GUI system upgrade - I expect us to have operating system upgrade available during the Fedora 23 lifecycle in GNOME Software, enabling people to upgrade from Fedora 23 to Fedora 24 through GNOME Software. People involved - Richard Hughes (mclasen) and Kalev Lember (mclasen).

USB Creator - ideally this should be ready in time for Fedora 23 already. With full support for Windows, Mac and Linux. People involved - Martin Briza (jeischma).

Qt integration - In theory we already got a bit of stuff ready here, but we need to do some work to ensure that major 3rd party software using Qt are using the Adwaita theme we made by default. I also hope we can land the high contrast version in time for Fedora 24. People involved - Martin Briza (jeischma).

3rd party software - I expect us to have and agreement with Matthew Miller on a final design of labeling and availability of 3rd party software in time for it to be implemented and available in Fedora 24. So that people can install major software like Chrome, Skype, Spotify, Steam, Viber and more through GNOME Software in Fedora Workstation 24. People involved - Richard Hughes (mclasen), Kalev Lember (mclasen), Matthew Miller (Fedora)

Wayland - I expect us to be shipping Wayland as default in Fedora 24. People involved (Jonas Ådahl (mclasen), Olivier Fourdan (kem) and many more.

XDG app in GNOME Software - We need to have the infrastructure ready to make XDG apps available and upgradable in GNOME Software. People involved

• Richard Hughes (mclasen) and Alex Larsson (mclasen)

Developer tooling

Screencasting - top notch screencasting tool built with Pinos - Wim Taymans (kem)

XDG App - We will have Builder ready to make the building and deployment of XDG-apps very simple for Fedora Workstation 24, targeting a CentOS derived runtime. People involved - Christian Hergert (mclasen), Alexander Larsson (mclasen), David King (mclasen)

More developer tools packages - We should look at ways to package some major developer tools as XDG app bundles like PyCharm, Visual Studio (?), MonoDevelop etc. Maybe try to work with upstream projects to make them own this. People involved - TBD.

-- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop

On 29/10/15 04:59 AM, Bastien Nocera wrote:

<snip> The GNOME/design side of the problem is mentioned here: https://wiki.gnome.org/Design/OS/DualGPU

Ideally, the UI would be a single contextual menu item, and some work to tag applications and games as shipped in Fedora.

Cheers

About time. I am willing to test that functionality once ready. I have this type of laptop with Dual Radeon running on Fedora 23. The R5 230 is left unused while the R7 265X is used all time.

On Wed, 2015-11-04 at 10:19 +1000, Ryan Lerch wrote:

...

System Polish

GUI system upgrade - I expect us to have operating system upgrade available during the Fedora 23 lifecycle in GNOME Software, enabling people to upgrade from Fedora 23 to Fedora 24 through GNOME Software. People involved - Richard Hughes (mclasen) and Kalev Lember (mclasen).

This would be awesome! I'm willing to help out from a UX perspective on this one too, any maybe getting some user testing on this feature. One side feature that would be nice on this would be to somehow notify the user that their system is EOL, or will be in the future -- then give the option to upgrade.

Great. You know where to find Richard and Kalev on irc, I guess ? I don't think we quite have testable UI for this yet, but should be there in a few weeks.