I'm intentionally breaking the threading here since I think it's a top-level topic. The following is from Christian:
- The name is not important here, we might as well have called the
product working group the Desktop Working Group or the Client Working Group. The name workstation was chosen mostly to emphasize that technical users are of importance to us. So please do not get hung up on the name.
I agree, and also, I think the direction has gone a little differently from what we were originally thinking about with the "Workstation" name. As I noted elsewhere, things going differently from my first thoughts is the process working. :)
If there's going to be a name change, I think it's probably better somewhat sooner rather than later. It might be a good idea to talk with Fedora Marketing too. So... yeah. Open floor on this idea. Does "workstation" really convey what this product will be all about? What would be better? Plain old "Fedora Desktop" is still on the table, for sure. "Fedora Bob" is probably a bad idea....
I think Fedora Desktop is the best name to describe what we are trying to make. For most users the term "workstation" will sound either obsolete (Windows 3.11 for Workstations) or meaningless.
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:01 PM, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org wrote:
I'm intentionally breaking the threading here since I think it's a top-level topic. The following is from Christian:
I agree, and also, I think the direction has gone a little differently from what we were originally thinking about with the "Workstation" name. As I noted elsewhere, things going differently from my first thoughts is the process working. :)
If there's going to be a name change, I think it's probably better somewhat sooner rather than later. It might be a good idea to talk with Fedora Marketing too. So... yeah. Open floor on this idea. Does "workstation" really convey what this product will be all about? What would be better? Plain old "Fedora Desktop" is still on the table, for sure. "Fedora Bob" is probably a bad idea....
Q: Do you want to keep Fedora Worksation?
A: No.
Q: Why?
I'm going to say this one more time. It is a really BAD idea to define "Fedora Workstation" or "Fedora Desktop" as 1 single experience.
Yes, I know about the "vision". I guess you guys forgot that GTK+ can run on multiple DEs.
Note: I do think Fedora Server and Fedora Cloud are absolutely GREAT ideas.
Dan
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 12:08:17PM -0800, Dan Mashal wrote:
Q: Do you want to keep Fedora Worksation? A: No.
This is answering a different question than the one I'm asking. Noted, but it's a different conversation.
to me Workstation conveys a machine that is destined to do some sort of work, or be used in the production of something. My company laptop is my "Workstation" as I use it mainly for getting work done. I don't use it for personal use (OK, --rarely-- use it for personal stuff), and I have a different work flow when using it. However, on my personal machines, I refer to them as my "desktop" for my big box computer, and my "laptop" for my laptop. Hardly any work gets done on these, save for personal "fun" stuff.
In the essence of what Fedora Workstation is targeting, I would think that the name Workstation is best suited. We are targeting Developers and Sysadmins who get work done, much like the work I do on my company laptop "workstation".
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.orgwrote:
I'm intentionally breaking the threading here since I think it's a top-level topic. The following is from Christian:
- The name is not important here, we might as well have called the
product working group the Desktop Working Group or the Client Working Group. The name workstation was chosen mostly to emphasize that technical users are of importance to us. So please do not get hung up on the name.
I agree, and also, I think the direction has gone a little differently from what we were originally thinking about with the "Workstation" name. As I noted elsewhere, things going differently from my first thoughts is the process working. :)
If there's going to be a name change, I think it's probably better somewhat sooner rather than later. It might be a good idea to talk with Fedora Marketing too. So... yeah. Open floor on this idea. Does "workstation" really convey what this product will be all about? What would be better? Plain old "Fedora Desktop" is still on the table, for sure. "Fedora Bob" is probably a bad idea....
-- Matthew Miller -- Fedora Project -- mattdm@fedoraproject.org -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 3:09 PM, Lynn Dixon boodaddy@gmail.com wrote:
to me Workstation conveys a machine that is destined to do some sort of work, or be used in the production of something. My company laptop is my "Workstation" as I use it mainly for getting work done. I don't use it for personal use (OK, --rarely-- use it for personal stuff), and I have a different work flow when using it. However, on my personal machines, I refer to them as my "desktop" for my big box computer, and my "laptop" for my laptop. Hardly any work gets done on these, save for personal "fun" stuff.
In the essence of what Fedora Workstation is targeting, I would think that the name Workstation is best suited. We are targeting Developers and Sysadmins who get work done, much like the work I do on my company laptop "workstation".
+1 to keeping workstation. I was a part of some of the relevant conversations at Flock, and IIRC the intention at the time was that workstation would be for users with workstation use cases: developers, sysadmins, content creators, etc.
IMO the workstation PRD doesn't deviate from that significantly.
On Wed, Feb 12, 2014 at 3:01 PM, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.orgwrote:
I'm intentionally breaking the threading here since I think it's a top-level topic. The following is from Christian:
- The name is not important here, we might as well have called the
product working group the Desktop Working Group or the Client Working Group. The name workstation was chosen mostly to emphasize that
technical
users are of importance to us. So please do not get hung up on the name.
I agree, and also, I think the direction has gone a little differently from what we were originally thinking about with the "Workstation" name. As I noted elsewhere, things going differently from my first thoughts is the process working. :)
If there's going to be a name change, I think it's probably better somewhat sooner rather than later. It might be a good idea to talk with Fedora Marketing too. So... yeah. Open floor on this idea. Does "workstation" really convey what this product will be all about? What would be better? Plain old "Fedora Desktop" is still on the table, for sure. "Fedora Bob" is probably a bad idea....
-- Matthew Miller -- Fedora Project -- mattdm@fedoraproject.org -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
-- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On 02/12/2014 08:01 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
I'm intentionally breaking the threading here since I think it's a top-level topic. The following is from Christian:
- The name is not important here, we might as well have called the
product working group the Desktop Working Group or the Client Working Group. The name workstation was chosen mostly to emphasize that technical users are of importance to us. So please do not get hung up on the name.
I agree, and also, I think the direction has gone a little differently from what we were originally thinking about with the "Workstation" name. As I noted elsewhere, things going differently from my first thoughts is the process working. :)
If there's going to be a name change, I think it's probably better somewhat sooner rather than later. It might be a good idea to talk with Fedora Marketing too. So... yeah. Open floor on this idea. Does "workstation" really convey what this product will be all about? What would be better? Plain old "Fedora Desktop" is still on the table, for sure. "Fedora Bob" is probably a bad idea....
I have already officially applied for the Desktop WG on today's fesco meeting.
JBG
Hi Matthew, Been pondering that for a while too, my current thinking though is that if we are to switch it we should maybe choose a more 'brand' style name as opposed to a functional one. So instead of calling it workstation, desktop or client I would be tempted to give it a unique name. When describing the idea to people I have tended to use 'Fedora Bluecurve' as an example name, although that specific name of course has its own set of baggage :)
Christian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Miller" mattdm@fedoraproject.org To: "Discussions about development for the Fedora desktop" desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2014 9:01:20 PM Subject: Question for the WG (and SIG) -- do you want to keep "Workstation"?
I'm intentionally breaking the threading here since I think it's a top-level topic. The following is from Christian:
- The name is not important here, we might as well have called the
product working group the Desktop Working Group or the Client Working Group. The name workstation was chosen mostly to emphasize that technical users are of importance to us. So please do not get hung up on the name.
I agree, and also, I think the direction has gone a little differently from what we were originally thinking about with the "Workstation" name. As I noted elsewhere, things going differently from my first thoughts is the process working. :)
If there's going to be a name change, I think it's probably better somewhat sooner rather than later. It might be a good idea to talk with Fedora Marketing too. So... yeah. Open floor on this idea. Does "workstation" really convey what this product will be all about? What would be better? Plain old "Fedora Desktop" is still on the table, for sure. "Fedora Bob" is probably a bad idea....
-- Matthew Miller -- Fedora Project -- mattdm@fedoraproject.org -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 03:55:08 -0500 (EST) Christian Schaller cschalle@redhat.com wrote:
So instead of calling it workstation, desktop or client I would be tempted to give it a unique name. When describing the idea to people I have tended to use 'Fedora Bluecurve' as an example name, although that specific name of course has its own set of baggage :)
I don't think most people would associate random? names with a product. The name should convey something of the product.
Target Audience "Developer" Developer (All in PRD) aka "Fedora DevStation" # ToolBox, Coder, Workstation, CodeBox,
2: Am excluding "other" from the name.
The truth of the matter even in clothes "one size fits" does not carry over to reality. # not a gnome knock # http://www.salon.com/1999/11/30/naming/
___ Regards Frank frankly3d.com
They wouldn't initially, but hopefully as we do our releases they will start to, it would be a brand building exercise on our part. I mean the term "U2" is only associated with great music since the band has been building the U2 brand by offering great music under that name.
It would also let us escape preconceptions about what words like 'Workstation', 'Desktop' and 'Client' is supposed to mean.
That said this is an idea I had for a while, but I have not proposed it before as I think we have more important things to do that get stuck on name discussions. For instance we should be iterating on the technical specification: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Technical_Specification
Christian
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Murphy" frankly3d@gmail.com To: desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 10:28:00 AM Subject: Re: Question for the WG (and SIG) -- do you want to keep "Workstation"?
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 03:55:08 -0500 (EST) Christian Schaller cschalle@redhat.com wrote:
So instead of calling it workstation, desktop or client I would be tempted to give it a unique name. When describing the idea to people I have tended to use 'Fedora Bluecurve' as an example name, although that specific name of course has its own set of baggage :)
I don't think most people would associate random? names with a product. The name should convey something of the product.
Target Audience "Developer" Developer (All in PRD) aka "Fedora DevStation" # ToolBox, Coder, Workstation, CodeBox,
2: Am excluding "other" from the name.
The truth of the matter even in clothes "one size fits" does not carry over to reality. # not a gnome knock # http://www.salon.com/1999/11/30/naming/
Regards Frank frankly3d.com -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 05:21:08 -0500 (EST) Christian Schaller cschalle@redhat.com wrote:
They wouldn't initially, but hopefully as we do our releases they will start to, it would be a brand building exercise on our part. I mean the term "U2" is only associated with great music since the band has been building the U2 brand by offering great music under that name.
There are some here in Ireland think their music sucks, Lizzy would be associated with great music :)
___ Regards Frank frankly3d.com
What?! Hmm, I think such heretical claims must be a breach of the Fedora code of conduct :)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frank Murphy" frankly3d@gmail.com To: desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org Sent: Thursday, February 13, 2014 11:32:48 AM Subject: Re: Question for the WG (and SIG) -- do you want to keep "Workstation"?
On Thu, 13 Feb 2014 05:21:08 -0500 (EST) Christian Schaller cschalle@redhat.com wrote:
They wouldn't initially, but hopefully as we do our releases they will start to, it would be a brand building exercise on our part. I mean the term "U2" is only associated with great music since the band has been building the U2 brand by offering great music under that name.
There are some here in Ireland think their music sucks, Lizzy would be associated with great music :)
Regards Frank frankly3d.com -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org