Hey,
I think nm-connection-editor is mostly redundant with the Network panel in gnome-control-center. We already drop other redundant settings programs (e.g. system-config-printer and the ibus settings program); maybe we can cut this one as well?
We can't drop it: There are things it does the Network panel can't do. The Network panel actually invokes nm-connection-editor in many cases.
Anyway, I do think we should either split the .desktop file to a separate subpackage that won't be installed by default, or add a rule in the .desktop file saying it shouldn't be shown in GNOME.
Relevant: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682456
On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Michael Catanzaro mcatanzaro@gnome.orgwrote:
Hey,
I think nm-connection-editor is mostly redundant with the Network panel in gnome-control-center. We already drop other redundant settings programs (e.g. system-config-printer and the ibus settings program); maybe we can cut this one as well?
-- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On Sat, 2014-02-08 at 20:04 +0200, Elad Alfassa wrote:
We can't drop it: There are things it does the Network panel can't do. The Network panel actually invokes nm-connection-editor in many cases.
Anyway, I do think we should either split the .desktop file to a separate subpackage that won't be installed by default, or add a rule in the .desktop file saying it shouldn't be shown in GNOME.
nm-ce is intended to be the "everything" option; it's very understandable that the GNOME network panel won't necessarily implement everything that NM can do (for example, Data Center Bridging), so we may wish to keep it available. That doesn't mean it has to be installed by default though.
The panel still uses the editor for 802.1x setup and some advanced stuff I think. I'm fine with setting "don't show in GNOME", but that would ideally be either (a) a Fedora specific patch, or (b) if there was some way to restrict it to GNOME 3.6+ but leave it for GNOME 2.x.
Dan
Relevant: https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=682456
On Sat, Feb 8, 2014 at 7:11 PM, Michael Catanzaro mcatanzaro@gnome.orgwrote:
Hey,
I think nm-connection-editor is mostly redundant with the Network panel in gnome-control-center. We already drop other redundant settings programs (e.g. system-config-printer and the ibus settings program); maybe we can cut this one as well?
-- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 10:38 -0600, Dan Williams wrote:
The panel still uses the editor for 802.1x setup and some advanced stuff I think. I'm fine with setting "don't show in GNOME", but that would ideally be either (a) a Fedora specific patch, or (b) if there was some way to restrict it to GNOME 3.6+ but leave it for GNOME 2.x.
I don't want to suggest removing it from the distro: just either from the default install, or else using NoShowIn=GNOME. (I don't think that should be Fedora-specific. Why would other distros want a redundant tool?)
I guess you need to support newer versions of NM in RHEL 6? I think the appropriate way to handle that would be to patch out the NoShowIn line in RHEL....
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 10:58 -0600, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 10:38 -0600, Dan Williams wrote:
The panel still uses the editor for 802.1x setup and some advanced stuff I think. I'm fine with setting "don't show in GNOME", but that would ideally be either (a) a Fedora specific patch, or (b) if there was some way to restrict it to GNOME 3.6+ but leave it for GNOME 2.x.
I don't want to suggest removing it from the distro: just either from the default install, or else using NoShowIn=GNOME. (I don't think that should be Fedora-specific. Why would other distros want a redundant tool?)
I guess you need to support newer versions of NM in RHEL 6? I think the appropriate way to handle that would be to patch out the NoShowIn line in RHEL....
Leaving it out of the stock install seems a much better fit than NoShowIn to me. If you actually want to use it, you probably want it to be in the menus. Even in GNOME.
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 09:19 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 10:58 -0600, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 10:38 -0600, Dan Williams wrote:
The panel still uses the editor for 802.1x setup and some advanced stuff I think. I'm fine with setting "don't show in GNOME", but that would ideally be either (a) a Fedora specific patch, or (b) if there was some way to restrict it to GNOME 3.6+ but leave it for GNOME 2.x.
I don't want to suggest removing it from the distro: just either from the default install, or else using NoShowIn=GNOME. (I don't think that should be Fedora-specific. Why would other distros want a redundant tool?)
I guess you need to support newer versions of NM in RHEL 6? I think the appropriate way to handle that would be to patch out the NoShowIn line in RHEL....
Actually no, RHEL6 is completely disconnected from anything we would be discussing here :) I mainly meant that perhaps there are distros that are still using GNOME 2.x that keep other components up-to-date? Maybe not, perhaps they have all started using Cinnamon or MATE; and then we could set NoShowIn=GNOME.
Leaving it out of the stock install seems a much better fit than NoShowIn to me. If you actually want to use it, you probably want it to be in the menus. Even in GNOME.
Except that the GNOME control center's network panel still uses it, so it does need a hard RPM dependency on nm-connection-editor. We should likely just NoShowIn.
Dan
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 09:19:16AM -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
Leaving it out of the stock install seems a much better fit than NoShowIn to me. If you actually want to use it, you probably want it to be in the menus. Even in GNOME.
Although, "when the network isn't working" isn't the ideal time to discover you want a tool that isn't installed.
----- Original Message -----
On Sat, 2014-02-08 at 20:04 +0200, Elad Alfassa wrote:
We can't drop it: There are things it does the Network panel can't do. The Network panel actually invokes nm-connection-editor in many cases.
Anyway, I do think we should either split the .desktop file to a separate subpackage that won't be installed by default, or add a rule in the .desktop file saying it shouldn't be shown in GNOME.
nm-ce is intended to be the "everything" option; it's very understandable that the GNOME network panel won't necessarily implement everything that NM can do (for example, Data Center Bridging), so we may wish to keep it available. That doesn't mean it has to be installed by default though.
The panel still uses the editor for 802.1x setup and some advanced stuff I think. I'm fine with setting "don't show in GNOME", but that would ideally be either (a) a Fedora specific patch, or (b) if there was some way to restrict it to GNOME 3.6+ but leave it for GNOME 2.x.
In Fedora 20 at least, nm-connection-editor is only to: - edit information about Wi-Fi devices, but we can't actually get to it from anywhere in the UI - Launching an editor for unknown connection types
I think we could probably remove the dependency altogether...
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 14:48 -0500, Bastien Nocera wrote:
----- Original Message -----
On Sat, 2014-02-08 at 20:04 +0200, Elad Alfassa wrote:
We can't drop it: There are things it does the Network panel can't do. The Network panel actually invokes nm-connection-editor in many cases.
Anyway, I do think we should either split the .desktop file to a separate subpackage that won't be installed by default, or add a rule in the .desktop file saying it shouldn't be shown in GNOME.
nm-ce is intended to be the "everything" option; it's very understandable that the GNOME network panel won't necessarily implement everything that NM can do (for example, Data Center Bridging), so we may wish to keep it available. That doesn't mean it has to be installed by default though.
The panel still uses the editor for 802.1x setup and some advanced stuff I think. I'm fine with setting "don't show in GNOME", but that would ideally be either (a) a Fedora specific patch, or (b) if there was some way to restrict it to GNOME 3.6+ but leave it for GNOME 2.x.
In Fedora 20 at least, nm-connection-editor is only to:
- edit information about Wi-Fi devices, but we can't actually get to it from anywhere in the UI
- Launching an editor for unknown connection types
I think we could probably remove the dependency altogether...
Now I'm thinking about this, IIRC anaconda depends on it, so even if you remove the dep from GNOME itself, live installs will still have it present after installation. You can remove anaconda post-install, but most people don't.
On Thu, Feb 13, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Adam Williamson awilliam@redhat.com wrote:
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 14:48 -0500, Bastien Nocera wrote:
----- Original Message -----
On Sat, 2014-02-08 at 20:04 +0200, Elad Alfassa wrote:
We can't drop it: There are things it does the Network panel can't do. The Network panel actually invokes nm-connection-editor in many cases.
Anyway, I do think we should either split the .desktop file to a separate subpackage that won't be installed by default, or add a rule in the .desktop file saying it shouldn't be shown in GNOME.
nm-ce is intended to be the "everything" option; it's very understandable that the GNOME network panel won't necessarily implement everything that NM can do (for example, Data Center Bridging), so we may wish to keep it available. That doesn't mean it has to be installed by default though.
The panel still uses the editor for 802.1x setup and some advanced stuff I think. I'm fine with setting "don't show in GNOME", but that would ideally be either (a) a Fedora specific patch, or (b) if there was some way to restrict it to GNOME 3.6+ but leave it for GNOME 2.x.
In Fedora 20 at least, nm-connection-editor is only to:
- edit information about Wi-Fi devices, but we can't actually get to it from anywhere in the UI
- Launching an editor for unknown connection types
I think we could probably remove the dependency altogether...
Now I'm thinking about this, IIRC anaconda depends on it, so even if you remove the dep from GNOME itself, live installs will still have it present after installation. You can remove anaconda post-install, but most people don't.
It probably should remove itself and other stuff like "livesys.service" after install.
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 21:02 +0100, drago01 wrote:
Now I'm thinking about this, IIRC anaconda depends on it, so even if you remove the dep from GNOME itself, live installs will still have it present after installation. You can remove anaconda post-install, but most people don't.
It probably should remove itself and other stuff like "livesys.service" after install.
It actually needs to be installed at least for first boot on non-GNOME systems because the new initial-setup is based on anaconda and genuinely depends on it. In theory we could safely remove it post-live install but pre-first boot *only for GNOME*, but at that point things are getting a bit special case-y.
Now I'm thinking about this, IIRC anaconda depends on it, so even if you remove the dep from GNOME itself, live installs will still have it present after installation. You can remove anaconda post-install, but most people don't.
It probably should remove itself and other stuff like "livesys.service" after install.
It actually needs to be installed at least for first boot on non-GNOME systems because the new initial-setup is based on anaconda and genuinely depends on it. In theory we could safely remove it post-live install but pre-first boot *only for GNOME*, but at that point things are getting a bit special case-y.
With F-20 as a pure gnome user I still resort to it more than I feel I should on my laptop with my use of VPN/wifi/3G/tethered/ethernet and other use cases. As adam points out it's still a dependency of install. I don't feel that it adds anything in terms of space and it's as useful tools like grep that I feel shouldn't be used. Shove it into sundry or somewhere it's not easily found but when stuff in some random place trying to get a network connection it's often too useful!
Peter
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 12:04 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
It actually needs to be installed at least for first boot on non-GNOME systems because the new initial-setup is based on anaconda and genuinely depends on it. In theory we could safely remove it post-live install but pre-first boot *only for GNOME*, but at that point things are getting a bit special case-y.
It's more than a bit odd that the installer is left on the system after it has been installed. (And it's more than a bit odd that I get updates for it every so often. Really? Why?)
Maybe anaconda could remove itself unless [non-gnome-]initial-setup is installed. That seems a bit less special-case-y. (Or it could just check if any installed packages depend on it?)
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 18:24 -0600, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
On Thu, 2014-02-13 at 12:04 -0800, Adam Williamson wrote:
It actually needs to be installed at least for first boot on non-GNOME systems because the new initial-setup is based on anaconda and genuinely depends on it. In theory we could safely remove it post-live install but pre-first boot *only for GNOME*, but at that point things are getting a bit special case-y.
It's more than a bit odd that the installer is left on the system after it has been installed.
I think it's more or less just been the case that having it around wasn't considered to cause any particular harm, and writing some code to try and uninstall it is one more damn thing that can go wrong, and we have enough of those already. Doesn't seem like a problem if someone wants to implement it, though.
(And it's more than a bit odd that I get updates for it every so often. Really? Why?)
Some people do make respins of stable releases, and the anaconda team occasionally sends out fixes for the more egregious bugs in a release I guess so respins can benefit. There may be some other purpose, but I don't know what. It's not for RHEL, RHEL has its own branch of anaconda 19.
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