I haven't been following the F23 change proposals very closely, so I was a little surprised when I found that the 'default local dns resolver' feature as currently implemented will affect the workstation quite a bit, despite what the Change page claims ("It is not something a user would notice").
I think we should take a look at other changes that are in the queue for F23 with an eye towards unexpected surprises like that.
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 09:44:48AM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
I think we should take a look at other changes that are in the queue for F23 with an eye towards unexpected surprises like that.
In the last two releases, watching changes and the communications around them, I think we often have this kind of failure of expectations. We (Fedora in general) need to continue to work on that. Often, change-filers expect that by having their change accepted, it's now on everyone else. And conversely, often other groups feel like the change owners should have covered everything. That ends up being more adversarial than it should be.
I think it's good to think of the filed Changes as a communications vehicles but not the complete communication itself. The change owners *should* be more active about starting discussions with affected groups, but aren't always experts on what those effects might actually be, so it's important for others to do exactly as you say — make sure to keep an eye on changes as they're filed.
I think this is a good general responsibility for the WG FESCo liasons — watch the changes as they come in and make sure the rest of the WG is aware. Of course, that doesn't mean that others can't watch too.
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 12:31:15PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 09:44:48AM -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:
I think we should take a look at other changes that are in the queue for F23 with an eye towards unexpected surprises like that.
In the last two releases, watching changes and the communications around them, I think we often have this kind of failure of expectations. We (Fedora in general) need to continue to work on that. Often, change-filers expect that by having their change accepted, it's now on everyone else. And conversely, often other groups feel like the change owners should have covered everything. That ends up being more adversarial than it should be.
I think it's good to think of the filed Changes as a communications vehicles but not the complete communication itself. The change owners *should* be more active about starting discussions with affected groups, but aren't always experts on what those effects might actually be, so it's important for others to do exactly as you say — make sure to keep an eye on changes as they're filed.
I think this is a good general responsibility for the WG FESCo liasons — watch the changes as they come in and make sure the rest of the WG is aware. Of course, that doesn't mean that others can't watch too.
Yes. I had told Matthew I would mention this change to the WG yesterday but since I was in non-stop meetings 9am-6:30pm, I didn't get to it. Looks like it wasn't a blocker since people found the Change, and AIUI Allan is talking with the devs to see what can be done to make this Change workable across Fedora including Workstation.
On Fri, 2015-06-12 at 13:28 -0400, Paul W. Frields wrote:
Yes. I had told Matthew I would mention this change to the WG yesterday but since I was in non-stop meetings 9am-6:30pm, I didn't get to it. Looks like it wasn't a blocker since people found the Change, and AIUI Allan is talking with the devs to see what can be done to make this Change workable across Fedora including Workstation.
I've mentioned on the devel@ list that we're OK with this provided they find a solution for NetworkManager's connectivity checking, and drop the tray icon. Am I correct to say those are the only problems for us?
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 01:35:44PM -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
I've mentioned on the devel@ list that we're OK with this provided they find a solution for NetworkManager's connectivity checking, and drop the tray icon. Am I correct to say those are the only problems for us?
FWIW as I mentioned to Paul, it has a _huge_ performance upside if you're not on a net with fast local DNS. I found web browsing at my local coffee shop to be, subjectively, about 1000× faster.
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 11:52 AM, Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org wrote:
On Fri, Jun 12, 2015 at 01:35:44PM -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
I've mentioned on the devel@ list that we're OK with this provided they find a solution for NetworkManager's connectivity checking, and drop the tray icon. Am I correct to say those are the only problems for us?
FWIW as I mentioned to Paul, it has a _huge_ performance upside if you're not on a net with fast local DNS. I found web browsing at my local coffee shop to be, subjectively, about 1000× faster.
-- Matthew Miller mattdm@fedoraproject.org Fedora Project Leader -- desktop mailing list desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
I spend a lot of time in coffee shops with my Fedora laptop - this would be an excellent thing to document for end users, assuming there's some way a current (F22) user can select either modality and compare the two!
Meanwhile, what do I Google for? ;-)
On Sat, Jun 13, 2015 at 05:15:06PM -0700, M. Edward (Ed) Borasky wrote:
FWIW as I mentioned to Paul, it has a _huge_ performance upside if you're not on a net with fast local DNS. I found web browsing at my local coffee shop to be, subjectively, about 1000× faster.
I spend a lot of time in coffee shops with my Fedora laptop - this would be an excellent thing to document for end users, assuming there's some way a current (F22) user can select either modality and compare the two!
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Default_Local_DNS_Resolver#How_To_Tes...
Note that there might be some outstanding SELinux issues -- there was a recent policy update that includes some fixes but I'm not sure it's all finalized.
On Fri, 2015-06-12 at 13:35 -0500, Michael Catanzaro wrote:
I've mentioned on the devel@ list that we're OK with this provided they find a solution for NetworkManager's connectivity checking, and drop the tray icon. Am I correct to say those are the only problems for us?
Yes, thats a good summary of my position.
We can also look at integrating some form of information in the system status area or network panel, although I am a bit wary about mentioning anything involving "DNSSEC" in the UI. It is of course easier to figure these things out when the desired user experience is discussed _before_ implementing the entire feature...
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
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M. Edward (Ed) Borasky -
Matthew Miller -
Matthias Clasen -
Michael Catanzaro -
Paul W. Frields