I have been reading some posts here and see that I am pouring oil on the fire so it might be foolish to continue. But "Who are a little wise, the best fooles be".
Exploring Gnome 3 under Fedora 15 beta.
So far: very nice to work with, great usability, but it could do with some more configurability options and then it would also be pleasing to LOOK at. Not unimportant eh. (I am making the following remarks under the proviso that I do not know if the standard (upstream) Gnome 3 is included in Fedora 15 beta and wat Fedora has contributed to the mix).
Are there any plans to increase desktop configurability in Gnome 3.
For example:
- I would like to be able to change the color of the top bar The lid of my laptop is a shiny black and the addition of the black colored top bar gives the desktop an even more funereal appearance (and makes the bar hard to see/read).
- I would like to be able to REMOVE icons from applications overviews under 'Applications' in the 'Activities overview'.
First I would like to remove ALL icons from the 'All' category. * This overview is not really necessary because the same icons are included under the other categories 'System Tools', 'Accessories', 'Graphics', etc. * Furthermore given the stupid and unhandy 16:9 laptop screens you have to scroll to see them all so having all icons available does not really save time/work. * Finding a particular icon among this plethora of icons is hardly easy. * Given the large size and the sometimes brash colors and non-uniform design of the icons makes this desktop full of large blobs not very aesthetically pleasing.
Second I would like to 'prune' the icons listed under the categories retaining only the icons of the apps I use regularly (possibly putting some of these 'pruned' icons in some 'Other' category).
- I would like to change the 'top bar' to an 'under bar' and have the notifications pop up at the top (and why do pop ups and notifications need to have a black background).
Personally I find these 'wishes' very reasonable and not detracting from the design and usability of Gnome 3. I could even understand the need to concentrate on other issues at the moment but I do think that tools to make these kinds of changes are necessary, even for beginning and inexperienced users!
PS Who designs/creates the icons/icon themes. I find the icons (too) big, brash, glaring and sometimes downright ugly with no consideration for the overall effect. (for example the 'Games' icons). It would be much nicer if they were created with an overall effect in mind using compatible colors and forms (say a sleek blue/silver theme, uniformly applied).
PS If configuration options as specified above or comparable are planned for updates or Gnome 3.2 then I would be even more happy with Gnome 3. If not, is it possible to put forward things like the above as 'suggestions' for the design team and what is the best possible place for this.
NB I can not and do not code myself.
Alexander
On 04/26/2011 01:45 PM, Alexander Volovics wrote:
I have been reading some posts here and see that I am pouring oil on the fire so it might be foolish to continue. But "Who are a little wise, the best fooles be".
Exploring Gnome 3 under Fedora 15 beta.
So far: very nice to work with, great usability, but it could do with some more configurability options and then it would also be pleasing to LOOK at. Not unimportant eh. (I am making the following remarks under the proviso that I do not know if the standard (upstream) Gnome 3 is included in Fedora 15 beta and wat Fedora has contributed to the mix).
Whatever Fedora contributed is all upstream. There is no deviations. You can post any feedback to GNOME Shell list
http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gnome-shell-list
Rahul
On Tue, 2011-04-26 at 10:15 +0200, Alexander Volovics wrote:
I have been reading some posts here and see that I am pouring oil on the fire so it might be foolish to continue. But "Who are a little wise, the best fooles be".
Exploring Gnome 3 under Fedora 15 beta.
So far: very nice to work with, great usability, but it could do with some more configurability options and then it would also be pleasing to LOOK at. Not unimportant eh. (I am making the following remarks under the proviso that I do not know if the standard (upstream) Gnome 3 is included in Fedora 15 beta and wat Fedora has contributed to the mix).
Are there any plans to increase desktop configurability in Gnome 3.
No official configuration tools will be forthcoming for some time (if at all). With a little tinkering, however, it is possible to change the appearance. See http://blog.fpmurphy.com/2011/03/customizing-the-gnome-3-shell.html for a good overview. You can also install gnome-tweak-tool and gnome-shell-extensions-user-theme and change the entire theme. A good source for alternative themes is http://gnome-shell.deviantart.com/gallery/28081982
Gnome-tweak-tool will also allow you to change the icon theme.
Most indications are that there is a good chance that the way things work internally may change in 3.2, so developers are warning that extensions that work now may not work with 3.2. Whether they plan to stabilize things and at least make gnome-shell more friendly for customization (if not officially supporting it) remains to be seen.
For example:
I would like to be able to change the color of the top bar The lid of my laptop is a shiny black and the addition of the black colored top bar gives the desktop an even more funereal appearance (and makes the bar hard to see/read).
I would like to be able to REMOVE icons from applications overviews under 'Applications' in the 'Activities overview'.
For hiding app icons, the alacarte menu editor should still work with gnome-shell. However, there is no way to change the current behavior of defaulting to "all" applications in the overlay, and short of someone writing an extension, not something that will change any time soon.
First I would like to remove ALL icons from the 'All' category.
- This overview is not really necessary because the same icons are included under the other categories 'System Tools', 'Accessories', 'Graphics', etc.
- Furthermore given the stupid and unhandy 16:9 laptop screens you have to scroll to see them all so having all icons available does not really save time/work.
- Finding a particular icon among this plethora of icons is hardly easy.
- Given the large size and the sometimes brash colors and non-uniform design of the icons makes this desktop full of large blobs not very aesthetically pleasing.
Second I would like to 'prune' the icons listed under the categories retaining only the icons of the apps I use regularly (possibly putting some of these 'pruned' icons in some 'Other' category).
- I would like to change the 'top bar' to an 'under bar' and have the notifications pop up at the top (and why do pop ups and notifications need to have a black background).
Personally I find these 'wishes' very reasonable and not detracting from the design and usability of Gnome 3. I could even understand the need to concentrate on other issues at the moment but I do think that tools to make these kinds of changes are necessary, even for beginning and inexperienced users!
PS Who designs/creates the icons/icon themes. I find the icons (too) big, brash, glaring and sometimes downright ugly with no consideration for the overall effect. (for example the 'Games' icons). It would be much nicer if they were created with an overall effect in mind using compatible colors and forms (say a sleek blue/silver theme, uniformly applied).
Even though you may not be a coder, if you have strong opinions about the default icon set, and can present a reasonable argument for and examples of alternatives, you may want to look at getting involved with the gnome design team.
PS If configuration options as specified above or comparable are planned for updates or Gnome 3.2 then I would be even more happy with Gnome 3. If not, is it possible to put forward things like the above as 'suggestions' for the design team and what is the best possible place for this.
NB I can not and do not code myself.
Alexander
On Tue, Apr 26, 2011 at 10:13:12AM -0700, Michael Knepher wrote:
No official configuration tools will be forthcoming for some time (if at all). With a little tinkering, however, it is possible to change the appearance. See http://blog.fpmurphy.com/2011/03/customizing-the-gnome-3-shell.html for a good overview. You can also install gnome-tweak-tool and gnome-shell-extensions-user-theme and change the entire theme. A good source for alternative themes is http://gnome-shell.deviantart.com/gallery/28081982
Gnome-tweak-tool will also allow you to change the icon theme.
Most indications are that there is a good chance that the way things work internally may change in 3.2, so developers are warning that extensions that work now may not work with 3.2. Whether they plan to stabilize things and at least make gnome-shell more friendly for customization (if not officially supporting it) remains to be seen.
Thanks for the information. I will try a 'little/lot' of tinkering. Sort of like in my blackbox/fluxbox days again.
Though I don't feel happy about it at all. The developers are (and have been) doing great work (the overall concept of gnome 3 is innovative and promising) but are'nt they getting just a tiny bit too authoritative and dictatorial: opensource should be about freedom and choice. And the choice should not only be 'you can still choose another window manager'.
Gnome 2.3 had quite a lot of choice. For example when they added a second panel (do they have laptops with 5:4 format screens?) you could remove it, hide it, or put the panels at the sides. (I removed it).
For hiding app icons, the alacarte menu editor should still work with gnome-shell.
It does (sort of).
Alexander
On 28 April 2011 09:57, Alexander Volovics a.volovic@upcmail.nl wrote:
Though I don't feel happy about it at all. The developers are (and have been) doing great work (the overall concept of gnome 3 is innovative and promising) but are'nt they getting just a tiny bit too authoritative and dictatorial: opensource should be about freedom and choice. And the choice should not only be 'you can still choose another window manager'.
No. The freedom (and the choices you have therefrom) is about the code's license. How you run a specific project (i.e. what goes in the official source code tree) is a different thing. Most (every?) successful project runs some form of a meritocracy. Read on it.
Rui
On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 11:17:36AM +0100, Rui Tiago Cação Matos wrote:
Though I don't feel happy about it at all. The developers are (and have been) doing great work (the overall concept of gnome 3 is innovative and promising) but are'nt they getting just a tiny bit too authoritative and dictatorial: opensource should be about freedom and choice. And the choice should not only be 'you can still choose another window manager'.
No. The freedom (and the choices you have therefrom) is about the code's license. How you run a specific project (i.e. what goes in the official source code tree) is a different thing. Most (every?) successful project runs some form of a meritocracy. Read on it.
Strictly speaking you are right. I was thinking more of the fact that most licenses allow you to change or add to the code for private use or to give it back to the community.
And I could not care less if they run a theocracy, a timocracy or a kleptocracy while designing and implementing the project. Probably some tight knit group is needed to do such work successfully but I still think that at some point a 'feedback channel' should be open, and not only to the in-crowd. You are not making a painting or a sculpture but an object used on a daily bases by millions of people who would at the very least like to make some slight changes to suit their tastes and needs.
I fist started using linux on a regular basis in 1994/1995 with the appearance of Red Hat Linux 1. Back then a lot of things 'under the hood' were relatively 'uncomplicated'. I had a pretty good idea how things worked and interacted. I could even occasionally change a script to suit my needs.
With the enormous progress made since then I have only a very hazy idea of what actually happens and I am completely dependent on primary and secondary sources for instructions and tools to implement any changes.
From all that I have heard and read the primary concern
of the developers seems to be the workability of the design with scant attention being payed to configurability. The least they could do is provide 'handles' so that the distro's or secondary sources could provide tools easily. And I hope that this is going to happen (or is happening now).
Even architects work to user specifications and keep the needs and wishes of inhabitants in mind.
Alexander
Hello Alexander,
There was a thread about these things on this list a couple of days ago, called "customization of themes and colors in gnome 3 desktop in Fedora 15", you may want to read that.
We don't know yet if Gnome upstream has any plans of making these customizations official, but you can customize your Gnome shell today. Install the packages gnome-tweak-tool and gnome-shell-extensions-user-theme. Then you can just grab a theme of your liking from the http://gnome-shell.deviantart.com/gallery/28081982 page (there are some lighter ones like Elementary or Smooth Inset) and apply them with the tool.
Cheers, Timur
On 04/26/2011 10:15 AM, Alexander Volovics wrote:
I have been reading some posts here and see that I am pouring oil on the fire so it might be foolish to continue. But "Who are a little wise, the best fooles be".
Exploring Gnome 3 under Fedora 15 beta.
So far: very nice to work with, great usability, but it could do with some more configurability options and then it would also be pleasing to LOOK at. Not unimportant eh. (I am making the following remarks under the proviso that I do not know if the standard (upstream) Gnome 3 is included in Fedora 15 beta and wat Fedora has contributed to the mix).
Are there any plans to increase desktop configurability in Gnome 3.
For example:
I would like to be able to change the color of the top bar The lid of my laptop is a shiny black and the addition of the black colored top bar gives the desktop an even more funereal appearance (and makes the bar hard to see/read).
I would like to be able to REMOVE icons from applications overviews under 'Applications' in the 'Activities overview'.
First I would like to remove ALL icons from the 'All' category.
- This overview is not really necessary because the same icons are included under the other categories 'System Tools', 'Accessories', 'Graphics', etc.
- Furthermore given the stupid and unhandy 16:9 laptop screens you have to scroll to see them all so having all icons available does not really save time/work.
- Finding a particular icon among this plethora of icons is hardly easy.
- Given the large size and the sometimes brash colors and non-uniform design of the icons makes this desktop full of large blobs not very aesthetically pleasing.
Second I would like to 'prune' the icons listed under the categories retaining only the icons of the apps I use regularly (possibly putting some of these 'pruned' icons in some 'Other' category).
I would like to change the 'top bar' to an 'under bar' and have the notifications pop up at the top (and why do pop ups and notifications need to have a black background).
Personally I find these 'wishes' very reasonable and not detracting from the design and usability of Gnome 3. I could even understand the need to concentrate on other issues at the moment but I do think that tools to make these kinds of changes are necessary, even for beginning and inexperienced users!
PS Who designs/creates the icons/icon themes. I find the icons (too) big, brash, glaring and sometimes downright ugly with no consideration for the overall effect. (for example the 'Games' icons). It would be much nicer if they were created with an overall effect in mind using compatible colors and forms (say a sleek blue/silver theme, uniformly applied).
PS If configuration options as specified above or comparable are planned for updates or Gnome 3.2 then I would be even more happy with Gnome 3. If not, is it possible to put forward things like the above as 'suggestions' for the design team and what is the best possible place for this.
NB I can not and do not code myself.
Alexander
On Wed, Apr 27, 2011 at 09:50:50AM +0200, Timur Kristóf wrote:
There was a thread about these things on this list a couple of days ago, called "customization of themes and colors in gnome 3 desktop in Fedora 15", you may want to read that.
Thanks for the reply. I had already read this thread.
We don't know yet if Gnome upstream has any plans of making these customizations official, but you can customize your Gnome shell today. Install the packages gnome-tweak-tool and gnome-shell-extensions-user-theme. Then you can just grab a theme of your liking from the http://gnome-shell.deviantart.com/gallery/28081982 page (there are some lighter ones like Elementary or Smooth Inset) and apply them with the tool.
I am looking into this.
Alexander
desktop@lists.fedoraproject.org
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Alexander Volovics -
Michael Knepher -
Rahul Sundaram -
Rui Tiago Cação Matos -
Timur Kristóf