On 16 December 2015 at 15:29, Andrei Fediukov user15092011@gmail.com wrote:

Hello, I am a member of the team of russian-language localization, and a ambassador of fedora. my nickname redandrei. I'm interested in the spread of fedora, but do not understand the purpose of the project G11N.

please give an external definition of "globalization." and if you can, a description of the need to apply it to the project fedora, in your own words.

* http://blogs.adobe.com/globalization/2012/04/12/globalization-myth-series-my... * https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/Globalization_Proposal

I believe above both link can answer your queries.

Thanks, Pravin Satpute

• http://blogs.adobe.com/globalization/2012/04/12/globalization-myth-series-my...
• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/Globalization_Proposal

I believe above both link can answer your queries.

The fact that I, more recently, doing fedora localization into Russian. and of course I have read your wiki page, but besides the general, "marketing" phrases I could not see anything.

what issues will decide this project? what are the goals for the project fedora. you can find the time to express their own vision and not to answer me a link 3 years ago?

I personally see the existing problems at the stage of localization, and you offer to the problems of old projects to add a new project. budget plan, assign positions. how it will solve the existing problems? I'm sure it will only create new ones, in the best case situation is not Change, apart from financial costs.

From your earlier reply, I thought you are asking for some external links with definition. :)

I asked for is not so much external links (by the way there was no more relevant references, such as wikipedia or something? what do you draw inspiration?) as your own vision. on the wiki page g11n absolutely nothing is clear.

Please mention those problems. I think that will be good start to Form translation group as suggested by Zoltan in earlier reply. I would love to participate as a member of this group with you all :)

a good start would be to solve the problems of localization, which I'll let you know if you do not know the current situation.

and, incidentally, to adhere to the rules of writing in the mail, no html and etc. but that such an approach to the existing rules, I'm afraid you've done even more trouble with your new project.

I am just opening up this for wider group for suggestion and feedback. Positive/Negative feedback are welcome. I think this is way we can learn and improve further.

hope mailing list has become open and not closed and only for "members of the mailing list" (and then somehow does not agree with your words "open" and "broader groups") and I, as a subscriber of your mailing list, no longer have to specifically ask you to publish my message.

and why our correspondence does not enter the discussion page? You're hiding something?

Lets use it for improving Fedora project.

I am already a member of the team of localization and Ambassador. and I am confronted with the fact that I do not quite localized materials, which I've been doing, and the documentation that I translate. and confronted with the fact that my fellow countrymen not heard about the project fedora. and you are now starting some New Year's vanity with the development budget and the distribution of decision-making positions, although completely ignore my requests to present your vision of globalization. that will be used as a basis and any problems will be solved and how.

you are in a hurry to catch? you do not have the time and you're not going to state in writing your own vision of the project of globalization? please tell me immediately so that I did not waste my time on you.

You are not subscribed to G11N list yet. That is why those gets filtered out and once i get notification, i am approving it. Please subscribe to list and save me from manual administration [4] Its not my list, we have 4 members administrating it. [5]

yah! on your I do not know how to subscribe? Do you think I get these letters? the first thing I did this "again" signed up for the newsletter and receive notifications that have already been signed.

Its Wiki, please feel free to add your feedback there. We don't want to lose your valuable feedback.

you still have not laid your own vision of the project g11n

Lets use it for improving Fedora project.

I am already a member of the team of localization and Ambassador. and I am confronted with the fact that I do not quite localized materials, which I've been doing, and the documentation that I translate. and confronted with the fact that my fellow countrymen not heard about the project fedora. and you are now starting some New Year's vanity with the development budget and the distribution of decision-making positions, although completely ignore my requests to present your vision of globalization. that will be used as a basis and any problems will be solved and how.

you are in a hurry to catch? you do not have the time and you're not going to state in writing your own vision of the project of globalization? please tell me immediately so that I did not waste my time on you.

You are not subscribed to G11N list yet. That is why those gets filtered out and once i get notification, i am approving it. Please subscribe to list and save me from manual administration [4] Its not my list, we have 4 members administrating it. [5]

yah! on your I do not know how to subscribe? Do you think I get these letters? the first thing I did this "again" signed up for the newsletter and receive notifications that have already been signed.

Its Wiki, please feel free to add your feedback there. We don't want to lose your valuable feedback.

you still have not laid your own vision of the project g11n

On 16 December 2015 at 17:05, Zoltan Hoppar hopparz@gmail.com wrote:

To All,

What we try to achieve over here is nothing more just more coordination, and a single entry point for problems, solutions, and anything that can be related. Earlier we didn't had any communication between devs and translators, so I think we need to form this. Pravin is the lead with this commitee, and with Noriko, me and others love to have this. Making things more visible over the teams and for the devs would be key - because helping each other makes only advance, and drives forward.

+1

Thanks, Pravin

• http://blogs.adobe.com/globalization/2012/04/12/globalization-myth-series-my...
• https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/G11N/Globalization_Proposal

I believe above both link can answer your queries.

The fact that I, more recently, doing fedora localization into Russian. and of course I have read your wiki page, but besides the general, "marketing" phrases I could not see anything.

what issues will decide this project? what are the goals for the project fedora. you can find the time to express their own vision and not to answer me a link 3 years ago?

I personally see the existing problems at the stage of localization, and you offer to the problems of old projects to add a new project. budget plan, assign positions. how it will solve the existing problems? I'm sure it will only create new ones, in the best case situation is not Change, apart from financial costs.

Hi,

I think this is a good start to have a translation steering commitee, but myself I don't like the "globalization" name, but understand the purpose. Would be nicer to rename it to Translation Steering commitee - (TransCom, maybe). I suggest to have a subdomain, and a portal like site under the fpo, where every translaton can get an common entrypoint of informations. Not only wiki links, and translation portal, else I think we should provide new entries, avallable resources, and deadlines - allowances, group creation methods, acceptance percentages, changes too.

Zoltan

2015-12-16 10:59 GMT+01:00 Andrei Fediukov user15092011@gmail.com:

Hello, I am a member of the team of russian-language localization, and a ambassador of fedora. my nickname redandrei. I'm interested in the spread of fedora, but do not understand the purpose of the project G11N.

please give an external definition of "globalization." and if you can, a description of the need to apply it to the project fedora, in your own words. -- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/trans@lists.fedoraproject.org

On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 6:33 AM Zoltan Hoppar hopparz@gmail.com wrote:

Hi,

I think this is a good start to have a translation steering commitee, but myself I don't like the "globalization" name, but understand the purpose. Would be nicer to rename it to Translation Steering commitee

• (TransCom, maybe).

I suggest to have a subdomain, and a portal like site under the fpo, where every translaton can get an common entrypoint of informations. Not only wiki links, and translation portal, else I think we should provide new entries, avallable resources, and deadlines - allowances, group creation methods, acceptance percentages, changes too.

+1 The Translation group has made very good progress. Zanata -> Weblate. etc. and very active from the last 6-12 months. Thanks to Jean-Baptiste for driving many things. Need to keep momentum up !!

Regards, Pravin Satpute

Zoltan

2015-12-16 10:59 GMT+01:00 Andrei Fediukov user15092011@gmail.com:

...

Hello, I am a member of the team of russian-language localization, and a ambassador of fedora. my nickname redandrei. I'm interested in the

spread of

...

fedora, but do not understand the purpose of the project G11N.

please give an external definition of "globalization." and if you can, a description of the need to apply it to the project fedora, in your own words. -- trans mailing list trans@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/trans@lists.fedoraproject.org

-- PGP: 06853DF7 _______________________________________________ g11n mailing list g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org _______________________________________________ fltg mailing list -- fltg@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to fltg-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/fltg@lists.fedoraproject.org

On Tue, 23 Jun 2020 at 13:10, Jean-Baptiste jean-baptiste@holcroft.fr wrote:

Le 22/06/2020 à 08:28, Pravin Satpute a écrit :

...

On Sun, Jun 21, 2020 at 6:33 AM Zoltan Hoppar <hopparz@gmail.com mailto:hopparz@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I think this is a good start to have a translation steering commitee,
but myself I don't like the "globalization" name, but understand the
purpose. Would be nicer to rename it to Translation Steering commitee
- (TransCom, maybe).
I suggest to have a subdomain, and a portal like site under the fpo,
where every translaton can get an common entrypoint of informations.
Not only wiki links, and translation portal, else I think we should
provide new entries, avallable resources, and deadlines - allowances,
group creation methods, acceptance percentages, changes too.

+1 The Translation group has made very good progress. Zanata -> Weblate. etc. and very active from the last 6-12 months. Thanks to Jean-Baptiste for driving many things. Need to keep momentum up !!

Very few people attended the last meetings, my feeling is that we have no real tasks for newcomers, except translating, which doesn't require to attend any kind of meeting.

Fedora docs internationalization and translation platform migrations are really complex things to start with. An we already know any internationalization related subject is complex because of the related technologies that are out of reach of non-dev workers.

Fedora mindset is upstream firsts, which means we don't have much end-user applications to translate, which probably is a priority for translators.

I like the idea of having a space for us, what about creating a real documentation space? I created a mockup there: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/localization/

It is easy to update, publish and translate.

I would also love to see article, about current status of language support, but it is difficult to find active people for rare languages. Could we run interviews? I'm of course interested in languages with small communities (Africa, Asia, Russia, endangered languages, ...).

We could organize translations focus? Like: this month, let's fix this kind of errors detected by Weblate in our projects.

About the name, I like the way LibreOffice calls it "Native language", which makes it broader than just translation: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Language (note, we once had Fedora Language Testing group ;)).

This could make a good agenda, what do you think?

• documentation for contributors
• communication
• community activities promotion and organization
• name of the group (which may impact the name of our documentation, but

that's easy to change)

I liked the agenda. I agree we need good documentation for new contributors. Let me know how I can contribute, I can definitely spend some time on it in the coming month. I hope Zoltan and other members can also collaborate in this drive. :)

Regards, Pravin

Jean-Baptiste _______________________________________________ fltg mailing list -- fltg@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe send an email to fltg-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/fltg@lists.fedoraproject.org

On Fri, 26 Jun 2020 at 17:17, Andrei Fediukov user15092011@gmail.com wrote:

project fedora broked stable ask.fedora service, wiki, docs... this is ruined at now. zanata, webalate... - which iteration it is?

at this time many non-structured resources exist simultaneously and you all speak about new changes! maybe enough? Let's fix existing resources?

Why does the current main wiki page not have a language switch? where are entry points to existing committees and resources?

at another web resource I've read by chance Cris Murphy offered to change to GNU Nano editor as default editor. where are entry points to these materials and these proposals? where the entry points to https://communityblog.fedoraproject.org/ and other materials?

you are talking about localizations but actually fedora project has no entry points for newcomers - all you activity it is creating endless groups and committees - it is not for new contributors. and making new ubuntu from fedora this is not right way.

Where is the graphical map for all existing fedora resources?

Very good point, we should have detailed analysis of existing things before starting anything new.

and @pravin.d.s - I remember you - you initiated "globalization" by taking a sample from the old dead end project, and I talked to you about it several years ago.

Right, I do remember. :) We had good success with the Globalization project but to be frank Globalization group turned into Localization group. I explained this thing in a talk at flock. [1] Slide No-8, after that we did not have much activity at Globalization level.

I am happy with the present momentum, since we are specifically talking about Localization. I am happy to help wherever i can :)

Regards, Pravin

1. https://www.slideshare.net/pravinds/flock-2017g11n

---

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On 16 December 2015 at 21:07, Patrick マルタインアンドレアス U puiterwijk@fedoraproject.org wrote:

Hi,

...

For this purpose and in line with [1], we were thinking of Fedora Globalization steering committee. I have created initial proposal for it. [2]

Would it instead be an idea to instead of forming a new committee next to the current Internationalization (i18n) Fedora subproject, extend that subproject to g11n?

In fact i think that was idea earlier. I18n group is more active with Fedora development life cycle. Merge two groups under G11N initiative and synchronise plus points. i.e. More language experts in L10N and more developers aligned with Fedora development life cycle in i18n.

But after executing it for 6 months, i feel though there are few points to synchronize, there are also number of different topics which just required sub-group level attention. More L10N and more i18n expertise.

So rather than complete merge of activities, just collaborate on common requirement points under G11N governance/committee group make sense. I think that should be goal of G11N steering committee. As given in proposal, it will have members from respective groups.

Otherwise, I would personally be a bit confused if I were to contribute to internationalization: would that be the i18n subproject, or the g11n subproject (which per definition as far as I understood includes i18n)?

With new structure. We will have full fledges groups i18n, l10n, QE. Issues required collaboration or higher level attention should get handled by people with different expertise where G11N group comes into picture.

I do agree that a steering committee directing this subproject would be a good idea, but I think that the proposal is a bit underspecified at this moment: "To drive Fedora globalization by providing governance and community activity support for Internationalization, Localization and Zanata group." is a very broad, marketing-sounding goal in my opinion, and not very clear.

Agree. I think we need to work further on improving proposal. Added sentence regarding its Draft status. :)

What kinds of things do we want the FGSCo to be governing? Would that be things like working with QE to add test cases/release criteria, get more contributors, organize events, ...? Probably best to expand a bit more, especially if you're also planning to raise funds.

+1 I saw Localization steering committee objectives was very well explained. [1] We need to further work on it.

Also, I am doubtful whether some of these goals are in order for the g11n team, especially: "Raising funds & Budget planning" and "Event planning in region/country". I think we should probably ask help from Ambassadors for these parts, since they are supposed to have experience with these kinds of things. And while I realize that a lot of g11n people might be ambassadors, I am not sure whether we need another committee responsible for all this. (note: this is based on some expectations from me regarding goals for this committee, see previous point).

Good point. !! For getting fund/budget for G11N activities, we need to work with Council, Ambassadors/FAMSco group. I am active Ambassadors from last one year and learned number of activities get planned during budgeting process. G11N activities i.e. FAD, L10N sprints are presently missing from it.

Ambassadors are experts in there country and with the help of Ambassadors we can try to grow L10N community in respective regions. We can plan and organize events like L10N sprint specifically in APAC regions, there is good scope to grow community with such activity.

This is started happening already with different Ambassadors taking active role in it.

...

Its open for feedback, please feel free to share other active members, discuss in your respective language groups. This is just initial proposal and i am sure, we can improve and make it more effective with active participation.

Thank you for getting this process in motion, would be great to see g11n gain more ground in Fedora!

I will rather say thanks for support :) In present situation G11N will become successful only when we will have active L10N community, like we had during 2009. We already have number of active members and i am sure with all, will find way to make L10N again active.

Regards, Pravin Satpute _______________________________________________ g11n mailing list g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org

On 16 December 2015 at 23:04, Remy DeCausemaker decause@redhat.com wrote:

On Wed, Dec 16, 2015 at 12:19 PM, pravin.d.s@gmail.com pravin.d.s@gmail.com wrote:

...

On 16 December 2015 at 21:07, Patrick マルタインアンドレアス U puiterwijk@fedoraproject.org wrote:

...

Hi,

...

For this purpose and in line with [1], we were thinking of Fedora Globalization steering committee. I have created initial proposal for it. [2]

Would it instead be an idea to instead of forming a new committee next to the current Internationalization (i18n) Fedora subproject, extend that subproject to g11n?

In fact i think that was idea earlier. I18n group is more active with Fedora development life cycle. Merge two groups under G11N initiative and synchronise plus points. i.e. More language experts in L10N and more developers aligned with Fedora development life cycle in i18n.

But after executing it for 6 months, i feel though there are few points to synchronize, there are also number of different topics which just required sub-group level attention. More L10N and more i18n expertise.

So rather than complete merge of activities, just collaborate on common requirement points under G11N governance/committee group make sense. I think that should be goal of G11N steering committee. As given in proposal, it will have members from respective groups.

...

Otherwise, I would personally be a bit confused if I were to contribute to internationalization: would that be the i18n subproject, or the g11n subproject (which per definition as far as I understood includes i18n)?

With new structure. We will have full fledges groups i18n, l10n, QE. Issues required collaboration or higher level attention should get handled by people with different expertise where G11N group comes into picture.

...

I do agree that a steering committee directing this subproject would be a good idea, but I think that the proposal is a bit underspecified at this moment: "To drive Fedora globalization by providing governance and community activity support for Internationalization, Localization and Zanata group." is a very broad, marketing-sounding goal in my opinion, and not very clear.

Agree. I think we need to work further on improving proposal. Added sentence regarding its Draft status. :)

...

What kinds of things do we want the FGSCo to be governing? Would that be things like working with QE to add test cases/release criteria, get more contributors, organize events, ...? Probably best to expand a bit more, especially if you're also planning to raise funds.

+1 I saw Localization steering committee objectives was very well explained. [1] We need to further work on it.

...

Also, I am doubtful whether some of these goals are in order for the g11n team, especially: "Raising funds & Budget planning" and "Event planning in region/country". I think we should probably ask help from Ambassadors for these parts, since they are supposed to have experience with these kinds of things. And while I realize that a lot of g11n people might be ambassadors, I am not sure whether we need another committee responsible for all this. (note: this is based on some expectations from me regarding goals for this committee, see previous point).

Good point. !! For getting fund/budget for G11N activities, we need to work with Council, Ambassadors/FAMSco group. I am active Ambassadors from last one year and learned number of activities get planned during budgeting process. G11N activities i.e. FAD, L10N sprints are presently missing from it.

Ambassadors are experts in there country and with the help of Ambassadors we can try to grow L10N community in respective regions. We can plan and organize events like L10N sprint specifically in APAC regions, there is good scope to grow community with such activity.

This is started happening already with different Ambassadors taking active role in it.

...

...

Its open for feedback, please feel free to share other active members, discuss in your respective language groups. This is just initial proposal and i am sure, we can improve and make it more effective with active participation.

Thank you for getting this process in motion, would be great to see g11n gain more ground in Fedora!

I will rather say thanks for support :) In present situation G11N will become successful only when we will have active L10N community, like we had during 2009. We already have number of active members and i am sure with all, will find way to make L10N again active.

Regards, Pravin Satpute

I am admittedly not deeply involved in these *vital* parts of Fedora, but I would like to help where I can.

Please keep me in the loop, as I'm happy to help with coordinating and communicating at the Council/FAMSCo level, as localization/internationalization/translation/globalization move forward together.

Happy to help,

Thank you. This is really motivating. :) If we get consensus, we will propose this idea to council for approval.

- Pravin _______________________________________________ g11n mailing list g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org http://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/g11n@lists.fedoraproject.org