Some questions about the Localization group 'cvsl10n' in the Fedora Account System (FAS):
1. Do we have enough sponsors for the cvsl10n group?
2. Can we get at least one sponsor from each language team?
3. We changed the name 'cvsdocs' to 'docs', since it no longer was about CVS access. The same is true for 'cvsl10n'. Do we want to change that to 'l10n'?
Questions 1 and 2 are because I ignore *all* 'cvsl10n' requests, figuring that local language teams are covering them. However, I do not know if that is the case. I would be happier knowing there is a large pool of sponsors taking care of various languages.
Thanks - Karsten
Em Sáb, 2008-12-20 às 11:29 -0800, Karsten Wade escreveu:
Some questions about the Localization group 'cvsl10n' in the Fedora Account System (FAS):
Do we have enough sponsors for the cvsl10n group?
Can we get at least one sponsor from each language team?
We changed the name 'cvsdocs' to 'docs', since it no longer was about CVS access. The same is true for 'cvsl10n'. Do we want to change that to 'l10n'?
Questions 1 and 2 are because I ignore *all* 'cvsl10n' requests, figuring that local language teams are covering them. However, I do not know if that is the case. I would be happier knowing there is a large pool of sponsors taking care of various languages.
Having at least one sponsor from each team would be nice, but I am wondering how this could be organized.
I have been a sponsor for a short time, but I already see a lack of information at FAS. Sometimes I can't tell for sure from which country the person is. I am giving priority for those ones who are in the queue for a longer time or for the ones from my team or languages. I think it is important to know who is the person before become his sponsor, but FAS don't give us enough information.
Is there a language maintainer list in L10n infrastructure we can use to grant them sponsor status or we need to build one?
Regards, Igor Pires Soares
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:31:55AM -0200, Igor Pires Soares wrote:
I have been a sponsor for a short time, but I already see a lack of information at FAS. Sometimes I can't tell for sure from which country the person is. I am giving priority for those ones who are in the queue for a longer time or for the ones from my team or languages. I think it is important to know who is the person before become his sponsor, but FAS don't give us enough information.
I think we'd have to have separate groups by language, which may or may not be a good idea.
What are requirements to get sponsored? For example, does a translator have to introduce herself/himself on the language list? If so, you would only want to sponsor names you recognize from their self-introduction.
Many people are applying for groups without ever doing any of the joining requirements. This is a problem the Ambassadors group has been looking at.
Is there a language maintainer list in L10n infrastructure we can use to grant them sponsor status or we need to build one?
I think there are teams/leaders for each language at https://l10n.fedoraproject.org.
- Karsten
Karsten Wade さんは書きました:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:31:55AM -0200, Igor Pires Soares wrote:
I have been a sponsor for a short time, but I already see a lack of information at FAS. Sometimes I can't tell for sure from which country the person is. I am giving priority for those ones who are in the queue for a longer time or for the ones from my team or languages. I think it is important to know who is the person before become his sponsor, but FAS don't give us enough information.
I think we'd have to have separate groups by language, which may or may not be a good idea.
"At least one sponsor from each team" would be simpler and easier. To organize, can we add the entry of "sponsor" under the Details section of each team? http://translate.fedoraproject.org/teams/ja
What are requirements to get sponsored? For example, does a translator have to introduce herself/himself on the language list? If so, you would only want to sponsor names you recognize from their self-introduction.
It says in TQSG 2.9.2 'Introducing your self'; "Post a short self introduction http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/Join/SelfIntroduction/ to the fedora-trans-list mailing list and to the list of your local team."
However current 2.6.4 'Joining the cvsl10n Group' is not clear enough. "An administrator is notified of your application, and offers to sponsor you. This may take between an hour and a few days. The membership notification will be emailed to you once sponsored."
So shall we amend to?; "All administrators are notified of your application. Introduce yourself by following the section 2.9.2. Then your language administrator offers to sponsor you. This may take between an hour and a few days. The membership notification will be emailed to you once sponsored.
Many people are applying for groups without ever doing any of the joining requirements. This is a problem the Ambassadors group has been looking at.
Is anyway that we can send the message to those people, asking to follow the process which they might accidentally skip?
Then for those who still do not respond, we can safely deny them.
noriko
Is there a language maintainer list in L10n infrastructure we can use to grant them sponsor status or we need to build one?
I think there are teams/leaders for each language at https://l10n.fedoraproject.org.
- Karsten
-- Fedora-trans-list mailing list Fedora-trans-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list
Em Seg, 2008-12-22 às 10:24 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto escreveu:
Karsten Wade さんは書きました:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:31:55AM -0200, Igor Pires Soares wrote:
I have been a sponsor for a short time, but I already see a lack of information at FAS. Sometimes I can't tell for sure from which country the person is. I am giving priority for those ones who are in the queue for a longer time or for the ones from my team or languages. I think it is important to know who is the person before become his sponsor, but FAS don't give us enough information.
I think we'd have to have separate groups by language, which may or may not be a good idea.
"At least one sponsor from each team" would be simpler and easier. To organize, can we add the entry of "sponsor" under the Details section of each team? http://translate.fedoraproject.org/teams/ja
This is something we need to create a policy. The sponsor will be the language coordinator or could be anyone from the team?
In my opinion we should have at least the coordinator as sponsor. In that case having both coordinator and sponsor information by team would be redundant.
Other problem is how to use the information provided by Damned Lies. I guess we have to access every team page to get the coordinator FAS name. If there is a easier way please let me know. I am thinking about something more straightforward like a wiki page where language coordinators could put their name, language and FAS name.
Regards, Igor Pires Soares
Igor Pires Soares さんは書きました:
Em Seg, 2008-12-22 às 10:24 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto escreveu:
Karsten Wade さんは書きました:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 12:31:55AM -0200, Igor Pires Soares wrote:
I have been a sponsor for a short time, but I already see a lack of information at FAS. Sometimes I can't tell for sure from which country the person is. I am giving priority for those ones who are in the queue for a longer time or for the ones from my team or languages. I think it is important to know who is the person before become his sponsor, but FAS don't give us enough information.
I think we'd have to have separate groups by language, which may or may not be a good idea.
"At least one sponsor from each team" would be simpler and easier. To organize, can we add the entry of "sponsor" under the Details section of each team? http://translate.fedoraproject.org/teams/ja
This is something we need to create a policy. The sponsor will be the language coordinator or could be anyone from the team?
In my opinion we should have at least the coordinator as sponsor. In that case having both coordinator and sponsor information by team would be redundant.
It makes sense to me too. Then that coordinator can upgrade anyone of his/her team as 'sponsor' if needed.
Other problem is how to use the information provided by Damned Lies. I guess we have to access every team page to get the coordinator FAS name. If there is a easier way please let me know. I am thinking about something more straightforward like a wiki page where language coordinators could put their name, language and FAS name.
You are right, wiki page would be faster. The page can be added here? http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N
noriko
Regards, Igor Pires Soares
-- Fedora-trans-list mailing list Fedora-trans-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list
Hi
I have added the section of 'cvsl10n Group Administrators' into L10n wiki, which shows current sponsors[1].
Coordinators, please raise your hand with your fas username, so that you will be upgraded.
The content says below, please have a look and correct accordingly. * Ankitkumar Patel, irc:ankit (Gujarati) ankit@redhat.com * Dimitris Glezos, irc:glezos (Greek) * Chester Cheng, irc:snowlet (Chinese (Traditional)) ccheng@redhat.com * Igor Soares, irc:igor (Brazilian Portguese) * Robert-André Mauchin, irc:zebob (French) * Bart Couvreur, irc:couf (Dutch) * Noriko Mizumoto, irc:noriko (Japanese) noriko@redhat.com * Runa Bhattacharjee, irc:runab (Bengali India) runab@redhat.com * Diego Búrigo Zacarão, irc:rasther (Brazilian Portuguese) * Fabian Affolter, irc:fab (German)
[1]https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N
cheers noriko
2008/12/23 Noriko Mizumoto noriko@redhat.com:
Hi
I have added the section of 'cvsl10n Group Administrators' into L10n wiki, which shows current sponsors[1].
Coordinators, please raise your hand with your fas username, so that you will be upgraded.
Domingo Becker Spanish Team Coordinator (es) fas: beckerde irc: dbecker
regards
Domingo Becker (es)
Domingo Becker さんは書きました:
2008/12/23 Noriko Mizumoto noriko@redhat.com:
Hi
I have added the section of 'cvsl10n Group Administrators' into L10n wiki, which shows current sponsors[1].
Coordinators, please raise your hand with your fas username, so that you will be upgraded.
Domingo Becker Spanish Team Coordinator (es) fas: beckerde irc: dbecker
Done! noriko has been upgraded to "administrator", thanks to quaid.
regards
Domingo Becker (es)
-- Fedora-trans-list mailing list Fedora-trans-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 06:27:42PM +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote:
noriko has been upgraded to "administrator", thanks to quaid.
I saw this request in my IRC buffer, happy to oblige. I promoted a bunch of the current L10n steering committee members to Administrator status, you can add anyone I missed and promote people to Sponsor with ease.
- Karsten
Karsten Wade さんは書きました:
On Mon, Dec 29, 2008 at 06:27:42PM +1000, Noriko Mizumoto wrote:
noriko has been upgraded to "administrator", thanks to quaid.
I saw this request in my IRC buffer, happy to oblige. I promoted a bunch of the current L10n steering committee members to Administrator status, you can add anyone I missed and promote people to Sponsor with ease.
Thank you very very much! This is what exactly we are looking at as next step, accelerating the process of sponsoring and upgrading system.
Thank you again. noriko
- Karsten
-- Fedora-trans-list mailing list Fedora-trans-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list
Noriko Mizumoto pisze:
Coordinators, please raise your hand with your fas username, so that you will be upgraded.
Piotr Drąg, irc:Raven46 (Polish) piotrdrag@gmail.com fas: raven
Em Ter, 2008-12-23 às 17:15 +1000, Noriko Mizumoto escreveu:
Hi
I have added the section of 'cvsl10n Group Administrators' into L10n wiki, which shows current sponsors[1].
Coordinators, please raise your hand with your fas username, so that you will be upgraded.
The content says below, please have a look and correct accordingly. * Ankitkumar Patel, irc:ankit (Gujarati) ankit@redhat.com * Dimitris Glezos, irc:glezos (Greek) * Chester Cheng, irc:snowlet (Chinese (Traditional)) ccheng@redhat.com * Igor Soares, irc:igor (Brazilian Portguese) * Robert-André Mauchin, irc:zebob (French) * Bart Couvreur, irc:couf (Dutch) * Noriko Mizumoto, irc:noriko (Japanese) noriko@redhat.com * Runa Bhattacharjee, irc:runab (Bengali India) runab@redhat.com * Diego Búrigo Zacarão, irc:rasther (Brazilian Portuguese) * Fabian Affolter, irc:fab (German)
I just created a new page [1] for this list, since it will get bigger. I also changed the title because I was not sure about the term "administrators", since FAS distinguish sponsors from administrators.
Noriko, If you agree with these changes we can use this new page from now on. You can add some information there if necessary. I think we should keep it as simple as possible because it can be hard to maintain.
I am just waiting for someone to upgrade Domingo and Piotr in order to add them to the list, because I'm not an administrator at FAS.
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/L10N/GroupSponsors
Regards, Igor Pires Soares
Igor Pires Soares さんは書きました:
I just created a new page [1] for this list, since it will get bigger. I also changed the title because I was not sure about the term "administrators", since FAS distinguish sponsors from administrators.
"Administrators": can sponsor the applicant to become 'user', upgrade 'user' to become 'sponsor' and upgrade 'sponsor' to become 'administrator'.
"Sponsor": can sponsor the applicant to become 'user'.
This is what I found now :-)
Noriko, If you agree with these changes we can use this new page from now on. You can add some information there if necessary. I think we should keep it as simple as possible because it can be hard to maintain.
Thanks for this! I have modified the section to point the page created.
I am just waiting for someone to upgrade Domingo and Piotr in order to add them to the list, because I'm not an administrator at FAS.
Due to the above restriction I am not able to upgrade them, I am sorry. Administrators, please take an action.
noriko
Regards, Igor Pires Soares
-- Fedora-trans-list mailing list Fedora-trans-list@redhat.com https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-trans-list
2008/12/23 Noriko Mizumoto noriko@redhat.com:
Hi
Coordinators, please raise your hand with your fas username, so that you will be upgraded.
+1
* Yuan Yijun, FAS: bbbush, IRC: hers, Language Team: Simplified Chinese.
Some new translators happened to pop up in #fedora-cn recently. If I could sponsor them into l10n commit group that will be the best.
Yuan Yijun さんは書きました:
2008/12/23 Noriko Mizumoto noriko@redhat.com:
Hi
Coordinators, please raise your hand with your fas username, so that you will be upgraded.
+1
- Yuan Yijun, FAS: bbbush, IRC: hers, Language Team: Simplified Chinese.
Some new translators happened to pop up in #fedora-cn recently. If I could sponsor them into l10n commit group that will be the best.
Done, thank you for your support!
noriko
Karsten Wade wrote:
Some questions about the Localization group 'cvsl10n' in the Fedora Account System (FAS):
Do we have enough sponsors for the cvsl10n group?
Can we get at least one sponsor from each language team?
Most other mails on the same thread suggest, "one sponsor from each team (e.g. coordinator)". Although this sounds like an easier method, imho it is not scalable given the current size of the FLP. With >~80 sponsors for the cvsl10n group, it would become a necessity, putting in place guidelines for sponsorship and ensuring that they are adhered to. Especially, since the following needs to be tracked:
1. Coordinators/Sponsors for a team are active and respond 2. Coordinators/Sponsors for a team do not sponsor members from other teams without authorization
Additionally, in case of disputes or dormant teams, some guidelines have to be in place to over-ride the language team coordinator's authority (if we are assuming that only a coordinator or authorized member of a language team can sponsor new entrants to that team).
Secondly, it does not eradicate the current problem of:
1. Determining the identity/affiliations of the new entrant (unless the entrant chooses to disclose).
Reason being: The "Self:Introduction" mail is listed in the TQSG, but is not a hindrance to reach the queue. Unless the new entrant is "forcibly" made to mention the language team she/he would like to join, they can be waiting in the queue for eternity (or sponsored by someone clearing the queue).
Reiterating from an earlier suggestion about this[1], imho the introduction of an automatic additional step - "approval from the language coordinator" somewhere on the sponsorship page would help map the new entrant to a language and ensure that the coordinator can approve/disapprove of her/his membership either directly or indirectly.
- We changed the name 'cvsdocs' to 'docs', since it no longer was about CVS access. The same is true for 'cvsl10n'. Do we want to change that to 'l10n'?
'l10n' works, however we need to make sure that all references are very carefully replaced. :-)
hth
Thanks Runa
[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2008-November/msg00031.htm...
Em Seg, 2008-12-22 às 13:14 +0530, Runa Bhattacharjee escreveu:
Most other mails on the same thread suggest, "one sponsor from each team (e.g. coordinator)". Although this sounds like an easier method, imho it is not scalable given the current size of the FLP. With >~80 sponsors for the cvsl10n group, it would become a necessity, putting in place guidelines for sponsorship and ensuring that they are adhered to. Especially, since the following needs to be tracked:
- Coordinators/Sponsors for a team are active and respond
- Coordinators/Sponsors for a team do not sponsor members from other teams without authorization
Additionally, in case of disputes or dormant teams, some guidelines have to be in place to over-ride the language team coordinator's authority (if we are assuming that only a coordinator or authorized member of a language team can sponsor new entrants to that team).
The idea would be that only teams with no coordinators could have members sponsored by coordinators from other languages. The scalability of this model is really something to think about. Maybe we could have language groups. The challenge is to find a coherent logic to separate the languages. Separate them by regions or continents might not be a good idea.
Secondly, it does not eradicate the current problem of:
- Determining the identity/affiliations of the new entrant (unless the entrant chooses to disclose).
Reason being: The "Self:Introduction" mail is listed in the TQSG, but is not a hindrance to reach the queue. Unless the new entrant is "forcibly" made to mention the language team she/he would like to join, they can be waiting in the queue for eternity (or sponsored by someone clearing the queue).
We should also define an aging policy. If the person doesn't show up after a while it will be necessary to remove he/she from the queue.
Reiterating from an earlier suggestion about this[1], imho the introduction of an automatic additional step - "approval from the language coordinator" somewhere on the sponsorship page would help map the new entrant to a language and ensure that the coordinator can approve/disapprove of her/his membership either directly or indirectly.
Wouldn't be necessary to change FAS in order to achieve this?
Regards, Igor Pires Soares
Igor Pires Soares wrote: [...]
Additionally, in case of disputes or dormant teams, some guidelines have to be in place to over-ride the language team coordinator's authority (if we are assuming that only a coordinator or authorized member of a language team can sponsor new entrants to that team).
The idea would be that only teams with no coordinators could have members sponsored by coordinators from other languages. The scalability of this model is really something to think about. Maybe we could have language groups. The challenge is to find a coherent logic to separate the languages. Separate them by regions or continents might not be a good idea.
Language groups sounds a viable option, however I am afraid that it might lead to unrelated segregation amongst groups as a long-term side effect. Perhaps the FLSCo members can be considered as a neutral level of sponsors, who can take decisions about sponsoring members for:
1. new teams without coordinators 2. old teams without designated coordinators (i just spotted a few on translate.fp.o) 3. teams with disputed/MIA leadership
Secondly, it does not eradicate the current problem of:
- Determining the identity/affiliations of the new entrant (unless the entrant chooses to disclose).
Reason being: The "Self:Introduction" mail is listed in the TQSG, but is not a hindrance to reach the queue. Unless the new entrant is "forcibly" made to mention the language team she/he would like to join, they can be waiting in the queue for eternity (or sponsored by someone clearing the queue).
We should also define an aging policy. If the person doesn't show up after a while it will be necessary to remove he/she from the queue.
+1
Also, I already saw a mail[1] about the sequence of to-do's listed in the TQSG listed as:
1. Approval into cvsl10n 2. Self-introduction mail to the list.
We might need to change that.
Secondly, I am not sure if we have any automated method currently for:
1. notifying people waiting in the cvsl10n queue to send self-introduction mails, 2. notifying the team coordinators (who are not yet listed as sponsors) about people from their language waiting to be sponsored
Reiterating from an earlier suggestion about this[1], imho the introduction of an automatic additional step - "approval from the language coordinator" somewhere on the sponsorship page would help map the new entrant to a language and ensure that the coordinator can approve/disapprove of her/his membership either directly or indirectly.
Wouldn't be necessary to change FAS in order to achieve this?
As far as my understanding, yes. However, imho it might not be a bad idea to explore the option of a possible patch to the system that might help us plug this bit, which is a nagging worry for FLP.
Thoughts?
regards Runa
[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2008-December/msg00093.htm...
Runa Bhattacharjee さんは書きました:
Igor Pires Soares wrote: [...]
Additionally, in case of disputes or dormant teams, some guidelines have to be in place to over-ride the language team coordinator's authority (if we are assuming that only a coordinator or authorized member of a language team can sponsor new entrants to that team).
The idea would be that only teams with no coordinators could have members sponsored by coordinators from other languages. The scalability of this model is really something to think about. Maybe we could have language groups. The challenge is to find a coherent logic to separate the languages. Separate them by regions or continents might not be a good idea.
Language groups sounds a viable option, however I am afraid that it might lead to unrelated segregation amongst groups as a long-term side effect. Perhaps the FLSCo members can be considered as a neutral level of sponsors, who can take decisions about sponsoring members for:
- new teams without coordinators
Good one, I don't see any problem to sponsor those applications by any other languages' sponsors as there is no team formed yet thus he/she can possibly form new team. But I might miss out some important issue?!
- old teams without designated coordinators (i just spotted a few on
translate.fp.o)
A question just come up in my mind... Are those teams still active on translation?
- teams with disputed/MIA leadership
It would be best to solve the problem within the team members.
Secondly, it does not eradicate the current problem of:
- Determining the identity/affiliations of the new entrant (unless
the entrant chooses to disclose).
Reason being: The "Self:Introduction" mail is listed in the TQSG, but is not a hindrance to reach the queue. Unless the new entrant is "forcibly" made to mention the language team she/he would like to join, they can be waiting in the queue for eternity (or sponsored by someone clearing the queue).
We should also define an aging policy. If the person doesn't show up after a while it will be necessary to remove he/she from the queue.
+1
Also, I already saw a mail[1] about the sequence of to-do's listed in the TQSG listed as:
- Approval into cvsl10n
- Self-introduction mail to the list.
We might need to change that.
The bug has been filed for this. Any input is welcomed. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=477566
Secondly, I am not sure if we have any automated method currently for:
- notifying people waiting in the cvsl10n queue to send
self-introduction mails,
+1, where to request this, any idea? If this can be done, then aging policy issue can also be improved.
- notifying the team coordinators (who are not yet listed as sponsors)
about people from their language waiting to be sponsored
It might be easier that those who are current team coordinators raise their hands to become 'sponsor' so that they can be notified automatically.
cheers noriko
Reiterating from an earlier suggestion about this[1], imho the introduction of an automatic additional step - "approval from the language coordinator" somewhere on the sponsorship page would help map the new entrant to a language and ensure that the coordinator can approve/disapprove of her/his membership either directly or indirectly.
Wouldn't be necessary to change FAS in order to achieve this?
As far as my understanding, yes. However, imho it might not be a bad idea to explore the option of a possible patch to the system that might help us plug this bit, which is a nagging worry for FLP.
Thoughts?
regards Runa
[1] https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-trans-list/2008-December/msg00093.htm...
On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 8:56 AM, Runa Bhattacharjee runab@redhat.com wrote:
Language groups sounds a viable option, however I am afraid that it might lead to unrelated segregation amongst groups as a long-term side effect.
There is no option currently in FAS for language groups, only for choosing the country the user lives in.
Perhaps the FLSCo members can be considered as a neutral level of sponsors, who can take decisions about sponsoring members for:
- new teams without coordinators
- old teams without designated coordinators (i just spotted a few on
translate.fp.o) 3. teams with disputed/MIA leadership
Good point, although I believe anyone can be considered a neutral sponsor in this case. Here's what I do: "If person has sent self-introduction and language team does not have a coordinator, then sponsor him and urge to step up as a coordinator".
We should also define an aging policy. If the person doesn't show up after a while it will be necessary to remove he/she from the queue.
Upon cleanup, I usually send a standard email to un-introduced folks urging them to follow the instructions and get-going asap with translations.
Secondly, I am not sure if we have any automated method currently for:
- notifying people waiting in the cvsl10n queue to send self-introduction
mails, 2. notifying the team coordinators (who are not yet listed as sponsors) about people from their language waiting to be sponsored
There is no automated way. Folks with programming skills, however, could write a plugin for FAS that does exactly that.
-δ
PS: I've been a bit inactive lately due to heavy work. More on this on a separate email though. =)
-
Dimitris Glezos -
Domingo Becker -
Igor Pires Soares -
Karsten Wade -
Noriko Mizumoto -
Piotr Drąg -
Runa Bhattacharjee -
Yuan Yijun